Moment in Ohio HS History - Dayton Roth's 3:14.8 Record Team

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
Attached is the picture of the Dayton AAA Regional winning mile relay team, Dayton Roth, who ran 3:14.8 in 1980 for the MILE relay, not the 1600m relay.

Great team...unfortunately, for years, and to this day still, the Region 4 record is listed as 3:14.80 (it was MT, not FAT) for the 1600m relay. There is 30' 8" difference between the two, the 1600m being shorter. The record should read as 3:13.7 MT, not 3:14.80.

I hope in the future that the Region 4 powers that be will rectify this record. To allow a current team to run somewhere between 3:13.7 and 3:14.8 and take the record would do a disservice to that great Roth team.

My 2 cents.
 

Attachments

  • Dayton AAA - Mile Relay Team.pdf
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Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Great team...unfortunately, for years, and to this day still, the Region 4 record is listed as 3:14.80 (it was MT, not FAT) for the 1600m relay. There is 30' 8" difference between the two, the 1600m being shorter. The record should read as 3:13.7 MT, not 3:14.80.

No, it shouldn't. A converted time should never count as a record. A record has got to be an exact time at an exact distance. Otherwise you're just guessing at what shoulda, coulda been the record. Pure nonsense in my book. It is for this reason I maintain separate lists for yards and meters. Count the 3:14.8 as the yards record and don't convert it.
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
No, it shouldn't. A converted time should never count as a record. A record has got to be an exact time at an exact distance. Otherwise you're just guessing at what shoulda, coulda been the record. Pure nonsense in my book.

Following your suggestion, then, they shouldn't list the 3:14.8 time period in their record-keeping. They should go with the best mark since the 1982 meet, which was the first year Dayton converted fully to metric races. I would be amenable to that suggestion. However, for them to continue to keep the 3:14.8 as the record and to allow a subsequent team to run between the 3:13.7 and 3:14.8 marks and supersede the 3:14.8 would be a disservice to the Roth team. They certainly did cross the 1600m point of the race approximately a second faster than the 3:14.8. The Region 4 record should then be changed to whatever is the fastest time 1982-onward, and retire the marks prior to that (except for the 100m/110mH, which were contested in 1980-81). That would ok.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
What is impressive about Roth's time is this. The regional meet began in 1965. It was run in yards at Welcome stadium for 17 years. In the next 37 years when the events were run in meters, no team has ever been able to best the 3:14.8 time even at the shorter metric distance.
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
What is impressive about Roth's time is this. The regional meet began in 1965. It was run in yards at Welcome stadium for 17 years. In the next 37 years when the events were run in meters, no team has ever been able to best the 3:14.8 time even at the shorter metric distance.

This is very true. It was one whale of a team!!!
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Here is the trivia question for this thread. In the 37 years the R4 meet has been run in meters, which team has come closest to Roth's time.

A. Middletown
B. Trotwood - Madison
C. Dunbar
D. Wayne
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
All four of these teams came within a second of Roth's time albeit at a shorter distance. What would have happened if one of these teams had beaten Roth's time at the mile relay by say less than the 1.1 second JAVMAN says they probably went past the 1600m mark. I'm assuming their time would have been erased as the meet record and taken down and forgotten. Did JAVMAN83 save their historic time?
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
All four of these teams came within a second of Roth's time albeit at a shorter distance. What would have happened if one of these teams had beaten Roth's time at the mile relay by say less than the 1.1 second JAVMAN says they probably went past the 1600m mark. I'm assuming their time would have been erased as the meet record and taken down and forgotten. Did JAVMAN83 save their historic time?

FYI - I've already begun building the Regions 4, 8, & 12 databases as a side project. I might release those as individual meets instead of as a block like I did with all 4 of the Cincinnati area meets. I'm not committing to any of it yet, but if I do, I might be targeting being completed by 2025, the 60th anniversary of the "Dayton" regionals, as they were originally configured.

For those that don't know, the regional system came about in 1965. Prior to that year, district meets served as the qualifier to the State meet. In the years leading up to 1965, only 2 athletes per district would qualify. With the increasing number of school districts spread across the then AA & A classifications, that left a whole lot of people at home after district. The addition of the intermediate step of a regional meet allowed for more participation, of course.

As for the Regions 4, 8, and 12 meets as they are known now, here is the outline of the structure of those meets going back to 1965:

BOYS
1965-1970 - Class AA (Large School) / Class A (Small Schools)
1971-1989 - Class AAA (Large) / Class AA (Medium) / Class A (Small)
1990-present - Division I / Division II / Division III

GIRLS
1975-1989 - Class AAA (Large) / Class AA (Medium) / Class A (Small)
1990-present - Division I / Division II / Division III

As for the site locations of each meet, they are:

1965-1989 - All Classes located at Welcome Stadium
Since 1990...

Division I
1990-2017 @ Welcome
2018 @ Wayne HS

Division II
1990-2016 @ Welcome
2017-present @ Piqua

Division III
1990-2000 @ Welcome
2001-07 @ Piqua
2008 @ Dayton
2009-12 @ Troy
2013 @ Piqua
2014-present @ Troy

Hope this adds some clarity.
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
As an interesting side note, Roth's 1980 record came on SATURDAY afternoon, a day after the rest of the meet had been finished. The mile relay was delayed from Friday night until Saturday afternoon due to storms. So, everyone had a "fresher" pair of legs to run on. The girls were able to run their mile relay on Friday night before the storms...Cincinnati Seton won the girls' mile relay in 4:03.2.

Roth went 1-2 in the boys' 440 that year @ Dayton: 1st - Laron Brown - 47.8 (Region 4 Record), and 2nd - Bennie Hollis - 47.9.

Quite a 1-2 punch on that mile relay team.
 

skins99

Work is the scourage of the drinking class
As an interesting side note, Roth's 1980 record came on SATURDAY afternoon, a day after the rest of the meet had been finished. The mile relay was delayed from Friday night until Saturday afternoon due to storms. So, everyone had a "fresher" pair of legs to run on. The girls were able to run their mile relay on Friday night before the storms...Cincinnati Seton won the girls' mile relay in 4:03.2.

Roth went 1-2 in the boys' 440 that year @ Dayton: 1st - Laron Brown - 47.8 (Region 4 Record), and 2nd - Bennie Hollis - 47.9.

Quite a 1-2 punch on that mile relay team.

Hmm so your saying its game over if your behind going into 3rd leg.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
If you check all the listed running records, only Roth's mile relay time is from the yards days (pre 1982), so only one boys record would need to be changed and no girls records. The fastest time in the 4 x 400 meter relay after 1981 is 3:14.97 from 2008 of the Trotwood Madison foursome of William Henry (10), Jordan Paschal (10), Donte Lyons (12), and Derricus Purdy.
 
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warriorblue

Well-known member
All four of these teams came within a second of Roth's time albeit at a shorter distance. What would have happened if one of these teams had beaten Roth's time at the mile relay by say less than the 1.1 second JAVMAN says they probably went past the 1600m mark. I'm assuming their time would have been erased as the meet record and taken down and forgotten. Did JAVMAN83 save their historic time?

What is the Regional Record in the 4x400 relay? Maybe the top few times also.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
warriorblue, I don't see that your warriors ever won the regional 4 x 400 relay. Four teams run under 3:16 however.
 

insidecorner

New member
In reading the names of the runners, I thought that Keith Byars would be part of that team. Maybe my memory is off (which is getting more frequent), but I thought he also ran the 400 for Dayton Roth around that time frame - although 1980 may have been a year or two early. I ran at Welcome Stadium, and I still remember watching him run, and I have never seen a more muscular large guy run as fast as he did on that track.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
In reading the names of the runners, I thought that Keith Byars would be part of that team. Maybe my memory is off (which is getting more frequent), but I thought he also ran the 400 for Dayton Roth around that time frame - although 1980 may have been a year or two early. I ran at Welcome Stadium, and I still remember watching him run, and I have never seen a more muscular large guy run as fast as he did on that track.

Keith Byars was a tailback at OSU from 1982-1985. He than went on to the NFL. He did run on Roth's 1982 state championship team in the 4 x 100 relay (42.41). I can also tell you that Laron C. Brown II of Roth set a new state record in the 400m of 47.08 in 1981
 
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Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
WW was literally 2 steps behind the winners of the Regional 4x400

Winton Woods (3:16.28) got beat by Middletown (3.15.63) at the Dayton Regional in 2007. They absolutely destroyed the Middies at state when the foursome of Corey Blake, Joe Booker, Bryon Toran, and Maurice Norman set the Cincinnati city record of 3:15.42 which they still hold some eleven years later.
 

nooks

Well-known member
No. That's the price you pay by killing the old H.S. The records of the old ones get destroyed and the whole thing starts over, as if history never happened. Try finding records for Dayton Roosevelt, as if they never had any.
 

EuclidandViren

Well-known member
As an interesting side note, Roth's 1980 record came on SATURDAY afternoon, a day after the rest of the meet had been finished. The mile relay was delayed from Friday night until Saturday afternoon due to storms. So, everyone had a "fresher" pair of legs to run on. The girls were able to run their mile relay on Friday night before the storms...Cincinnati Seton won the girls' mile relay in 4:03.2.

Roth went 1-2 in the boys' 440 that year @ Dayton: 1st - Laron Brown - 47.8 (Region 4 Record), and 2nd - Bennie Hollis - 47.9.

Quite a 1-2 punch on that mile relay team.

Are you sure about this? The AAA and the D1 meet was on a Saturday afternoon in 90-100 degree weather starting at 12:30 for many years. I don't remember it changing to the mid 2000's.
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
Are you sure about this? The AAA and the D1 meet was on a Saturday afternoon in 90-100 degree weather starting at 12:30 for many years. I don't remember it changing to the mid 2000's.

Yes, I have the article stating such. Both the 300mH and Mile Relay were delayed from Friday night. You are correct it was on Saturdays for many years...I, like you, remember many such hot Saturday afternoons at Welcome...where there is even less shade than Jesse Owens (except under the stands, where there is more). However, it wasn't always so. I've attached the Saturday morning article from the Cincinnati Post of May 24, 1980 stating such. The Dayton AA (big school) Regional started on Fridays in 1965 and stayed that way for many years before switching to Saturdays. AA became AAA in 1971.

Ignore the "Dayton Daily Article" tag on the file...I incorrectly labeled it. It was from the Cincinnati Post.
 

Attachments

  • Dayton AAA Running Events - May 1980 - Dayton Daily Article.pdf
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Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
I have more proof to back up what JAVMAN is saying. I have the summaries from the 1980 prelims from the Dayton Daily news. A short account of the meet written by Dave Long is also there. The date of the except from the Dayton Daily News is Thurs., May 22, 1980. "Preliminaries were held in several running events. The AAA finals are Friday at Welcome with field events at 4:30 and running finals at 7. The A-AA prelims started today at 3 p.m. with finals Saturday".
 
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