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Midwest Athletic Conference 2020

thavoice

Well-known member
You know Voice your very entertaining, but I’m not surprised by your comment. You’ve shown no respect to the cardinals this past season. It’s my mistake for posting. Was told by a friend that one of the coaches told him. I guess unless they contact Coldwater then it’s not legit.
Thanks.

Personally dont now why a DIII school from NEO, nearly 200 miles away, and routinely makes the playoffs, would want to play a DVII team. Don't care if it is NB, FT Rec, any other local DVII team to be honest with ya.

I was pulling for NB this past season to get into the playoffs and would love to see another MAC team join the Champions Club like Anna did this past year. With that said, when they went up against MSML I felt the Flyers had the better shot at taking the DVII crown so I jumped onto their bandwagon but if the Flyers would have not been in the way man I was all Cardinal Red.

In terms if word got out they wanted to play a CW then I would have the same concern about the distance. The Cincy/Columbus trips for the Cavs is as far as I hope they ever schedule a team. Even at that I am not too thrilled about those roadies.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Voice knows his football but he likes to stir the muck with any team. I see no harm in New Bremen playing SVSM. I doubt it would happen, but a trip to Akron and staying in a hotel is something very few teams around here have a chance of doing. I’m sure SVSM will have some kids playing at the next level and it would be fun for the kids to reminisce and say “hey i played so and so who played at Ohio State when i was in high school.” If I was Bremen, I would take it.
False on your first point, I know nothing but true on your second....

First and foremost, playoffs are the goal. MAC title blah blah blah. It is nice, but playoff appearances is what people remember. Cardinals need to win both of their OOC games.

Plain and simple.

I just do not believe a matchup against tUASVSM is a battle they should take on.

I could be wrong, but I bet I am wrong about being wrong on this........
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Cards need to schedule a OOC that they know they can win. Can they beat tUASVSM? One in a million (So you're saying there is a chance........)
And who is that gonna be. The Flyers are still looking for an opponent in week 2. With more and more MAC schools struggling to find non league opponents hopefully this will lead to the end of the rotating schedule and will lead to just 1 non league game.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
And who is that gonna be. The Flyers are still looking for an opponent in week 2. With more and more MAC schools struggling to find non league opponents hopefully this will lead to the end of the rotating schedule and will lead to just 1 non league game.
So you want less MAC teams in the playoffs?

MSML is a victim of their own success. NB will be able to find a suitable opponant. Flyers just, well, are so damned good it's tough, I knkw, but for the betterment of the MAC we need to keep those two OOC games.
 

State2013

Member
And who is that gonna be. The Flyers are still looking for an opponent in week 2. With more and more MAC schools struggling to find non league opponents hopefully this will lead to the end of the rotating schedule and will lead to just 1 non league game.
Mentioning moving back to one OOC has Parkway fans quivering in their boots.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
So you want less MAC teams in the playoffs?

MSML is a victim of their own success. NB will be able to find a suitable opponant. Flyers just, well, are so damned good it's tough, I knkw, but for the betterment of the MAC we need to keep those two OOC games.
It will end because other schools are beginning to feel the Flyers pain. ML plays in Cincy week one, followed by Minster who visits the Queen City in week 2 ( once the Woodward series ends who are the Cats going to play than ) and NB still has an opening for week one. AD's do not like to scramble every year looking for opponents they much rather have a set schedule that is why IMO the rotating schedule will come to an end.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
It will end because other schools are beginning to feel the Flyers pain. ML plays in Cincy week one, followed by Minster who visits the Queen City in week 2 ( once the Woodward series ends who are the Cats going to play than ) and NB still has an opening for week one. AD's do not like to scramble every year looking for opponents they much rather have a set schedule that is why IMO the rotating schedule will come to an end.
If this does indeed happen then I foresee playoff appearances becoming less and less for the league.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
If this does indeed happen then I foresee playoff appearances becoming less and less for the league.
agreed. there is no good solution. it seems Coldwater usually gets decent games? and Minster had a nice thing going with Fort Loramie and Covington until the Buccs dropped them. Marion Local always seems like the one who can't get anyone to play them. As for New Bremen, I would have liked to see them schedule North Union.
 

ReadyKnightsFan

Active member
It will end because other schools are beginning to feel the Flyers pain. ML plays in Cincy week one, followed by Minster who visits the Queen City in week 2 ( once the Woodward series ends who are the Cats going to play than ) and NB still has an opening for week one. AD's do not like to scramble every year looking for opponents they much rather have a set schedule that is why IMO the rotating schedule will come to an end.
The rotating schedule isn't going anywhere. Why would the MAC shoot themselves in the foot come playoff season? This league is raising banners every single year, sometimes multiple schools a year, and you're telling me that they're instead going to make it more difficult to get to the playoffs because a couple schools have to drive a couple hours for a football game?
 

thavoice

Well-known member
agreed. there is no good solution. it seems Coldwater usually gets decent games? and Minster had a nice thing going with Fort Loramie and Covington until the Buccs dropped them. Marion Local always seems like the one who can't get anyone to play them. As for New Bremen, I would have liked to see them schedule North Union.
Well CW has had to travel to Columbus (Bishop Hartley), Clinton Massie, Cincinnati (Indian Hill), etc over the years so yeah I feel their pain. CW has it a little bit easier as they have been as high as D4 for a bit and was D5 for quite awhile so that opened up more teams that would be suitable to play.

The Flyers, yeah being a great DVI/VII program it is very difficult for them to find teams in their division range whom want to play, hence the shellacking to Bishop Watterson this past year (I would have loved to see this matchup any of the ten previous years when MSML wasnt in full rebuild mode) but it is what it is.

There may be some relief on the horizon and I really hope the MAC does not make any knee jerk changes. There is serious talk about going to a 12 team playoff it appears. In driving to Arcbhold and listening the The Fan they talked to a lot of coaches for pregame and it was asked to each one of them. One theme that was reiterated was they felt it would make scheduling easier for many teams. Many felt, and I think I concur, that teams will not be afraid of some match ups because it should not hurt them still making the playoffs. Right now the harbins are at a premium but if the top 12 make it then I think a Covington type of school would look at a MAC matchup against a good team as a way of 'iron sharpens irorn' and they may not come out with a win but it very well can make them a better squad.
 

Rangerfan

Active member
And if they change it to the top 12 getting into the playoffs, you can bet within 4-6 years they will go to the top 16.
 

State2013

Member
If they go to a 12 - 16 team playoff, the season would have to start before school starts, otherwise basketball and baseball season would have to be pushed back. That's the the big sticking point I see with this.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
And if they change it to the top 12 getting into the playoffs, you can bet within 4-6 years they will go to the top 16.
Doubtful, but when Coach Goodwin was asked he basically said if they go to 12, might as well go with 16!
Interesting tidbit as well was all the coaches said they didnt really know what they would do if they had a bye week!
 

Blue Jay Fan

Well-known member
During DSJ's glory years we traveled to Detroit, Kentucky, Cincinnati, Warren, Mogadore, Toledo, Hamilton, Columbus, etc... for games. You just have to deal with it. Those kind of games were actually always fun games for us.
DSJ has two non-conference games set, maybe for long term, in Delphos Jefferson and LCC. We have no interest in cutting one non-conference game.
As far as adding playoff teams, I can't imagine this happening. You're either starting in mid-August or ending in mid-December and teams in the finals are playing an NFL length season, 16 games. Go through the regions and let me know if you think teams 11-16 have any interest in traveling to teams 1-6 week 11 a likely bludgeoning.
 

WJ-OSU-STEELERS

Active member
I agree, 12 teams makes no sense because you will have 4 teams per region who will have a bye. If they increase the number of playoff teams it should go to 16 teams so everyone has a playoff game in wk 1 of the playoffs. You would also have to reduce the regular season from 10 games to 9 games. So out of the approximately 715 high schools in Ohio that field a football team you would have:
* 16 playoff teams per region X 28 Regions = 448 teams (62.66% of the schools playing football)
* 267 non playoff teams would lose 1 game by going to a 9 game season (715-448)

Increasing from 4 to 8 teams made sense and although some of the seeds 5 thru 8 are over matched there have been quite a few seeds 5 thru 8 win state championships. I don't think you would see many 9 thru 16 seeds win a game or prevent a running clock and very unlikely to ever win a state title. In the end, you would be taking one regulars season game away form 1/3 of the teams in Ohio because a handful of teams have problems filling out their regular season schedule. Don't make any changes, the playoffs are fine the way they currently are.
 

Rangerfan

Active member
If they go to a 12 - 16 team playoff, the season would have to start before school starts, otherwise basketball and baseball season would have to be pushed back. That's the the big sticking point I see with this.
The proposal is to eliminate one scrimmage and start the season a week earlier. The theory being if it is easier to get into the playoffs, then it is not as critical to be ready for the first game. Agree or disagree as you will.
 

Rangerfan

Active member
During DSJ's glory years we traveled to Detroit, Kentucky, Cincinnati, Warren, Mogadore, Toledo, Hamilton, Columbus, etc... for games. You just have to deal with it. Those kind of games were actually always fun games for us.
DSJ has two non-conference games set, maybe for long term, in Delphos Jefferson and LCC. We have no interest in cutting one non-conference game.
As far as adding playoff teams, I can't imagine this happening. You're either starting in mid-August or ending in mid-December and teams in the finals are playing an NFL length season, 16 games. Go through the regions and let me know if you think teams 11-16 have any interest in traveling to teams 1-6 week 11 a likely bludgeoning.
I personally always liked a road trip to check out a different school during the first two weeks of the season when the weather was usually good.
 

cknights

Well-known member
Mentioning moving back to one OOC has Parkway fans quivering in their boots.
Lol. Some funny tongue in cheek there. Parkway loses perennially to Crestview and Spencerville (albeit they have split those games the past two years, I know they had lost 7 or 8 straight to Crestview). I think they would be fine. I think the bigger problem is a few schools reaching for a home and away in the MAC. Parkway has Crestview/Spencerville. DSJ has LCC and Jefferson. Minster has Loramie every year. CW and ML should possibly think of finding one or two "local" rivals. Even if they win most years, its still a good relationship builder with another school and there's always points to be gained

As far as 12 or 16 playoff teams, that would be a blood bath. Outside of one or two regions out of 28 in Ohio, there aren't any complaints with 8 teams. I would venture to say that the MAC has the biggest axe to grind, but in the end, the cream rises to the top.
 

Ben Cartwright

New member
The playoffs need to expand to 16 teams per region, and it really has nothing to do with the playoffs themselves. It has everything to do with regular season scheduling.
 

Ben Cartwright

New member
16 teams in the playoffs. Play 9 regular season games. For the teams that don't make the playoffs, 17 hosts 18, 19 hosts 20, etc so that everyone gets 10 games and those games should be decent matchups. Done in the same time frame as now but loosens up the harbins crunch immensely for those schools who are scheduling with the intent of making the playoffs. You have to treat football much differently as it is the only sport where you have to qualify for the postseason.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
State does not want to go away from 10 games for everyone.

They would take away one scrimmage, keep the jamboree and move into the 10 game regular season.
 

cknights

Well-known member
12 team bracket would result in 4 byes and an extra week. Conferences wouldn't approve of certain teams having to play extra games in the playoffs while others wait on bye. A 12 team bracket also would call for teams to pick their spots in the bracket because obviously the 5 seed doesn't want to play the 12 seed to see who gets hammered by the one seed. Doesn't make any sense. Nor does the 1 seed want to chance playing higher seeds than it has earned the right to play. It would be like the basektball super sectional where teams pick their spot. I don't see it happening.

16 team bracket would result in an extra week and teams like ML playing teams like South Charleston Ohio (3-7 record last year and a long travel). Also not happening.
 

Ben Cartwright

New member
Seeds mean nothing in football when harbins are used. How many state champions were the #1 seeds in their region? I believe only LaSalle and Kirtland. If there were 16 teams let in, ML vs Southeastern would not have been any different than ML vs MV. I also believe that #16 FR would not have been embarrassed by #1 LCC. If there were 12 teams let in, I don't think #5 Anna would have been terrified of playing #1 LCC after beating #12 Hicksville. There would be blowouts associated with expanding the playoffs, but it is the best solution to the regular season scheduling difficulties. I would also say that regular season football schedules by far have been the reason for conference realignments. Expanded playoffs would stabilize leagues.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
12 team bracket would result in 4 byes and an extra week. Conferences wouldn't approve of certain teams having to play extra games in the playoffs while others wait on bye. A 12 team bracket also would call for teams to pick their spots in the bracket because obviously the 5 seed doesn't want to play the 12 seed to see who gets hammered by the one seed. Doesn't make any sense. Nor does the 1 seed want to chance playing higher seeds than it has earned the right to play. It would be like the basektball super sectional where teams pick their spot. I don't see it happening.

16 team bracket would result in an extra week and teams like ML playing teams like South Charleston Ohio (3-7 record last year and a long travel). Also not happening.
I don't think it would be set up that way, the 5 playing a possible one. I am opposed to 16 seeds, just way too many bad record teams.


TWO SCENARIOS:

FIRST
WEEK 11
1-4 bye
5 v 12.
6 v 11.
7 v 10.
8 v 9.

WEEK 12:
1 vs 8/9
2 vs 7/10
3 vs 6/11
4 vs 5/12.

SECOND:
To be quite honest, in the day of HUDL the week 12 game can be decided like they do the NFL playoffs about how teams finish.
1 seeds faces highest seed and so on.


Could a 1 play an 8 in week 2 and the 2 play a 10 in my first scenario? Yeah. Or we can do the second scenario.

Either way I would be fine. Seeds are just the harbins, and not necessarily ranked on team ability. Heck, that 10 seed may even be better than the 8 seed that the 1 would play.

Who knows.

The 1 should not have a problem with a bye and opening with the 8 as a worst case scenario.
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
I don't think going to 12 would help much with scheduling because schools would think about how to get a top 4 seed when it comes to their schedule.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I don't think going to 12 would help much with scheduling because schools would think about how to get a top 4 seed when it comes to their schedule.
Nah, I don't think that will be an issue at all.

At the root of the current issue is really those who are finishing between the 6th and 10th seed right now. Many of those margins to make the top 8 are so thin and they are jockeying to get squeeze those harbins.

Move to the 12 and there are a lot less teams who take the game seriously who will be sweating making the postseason. The solid programs of the past whom are skipping out playing MAC teams because points are at a premium have not excuse now as they will still make it if they take care of business in their league.

Fighting for that bye, if indeed that is something HS and AD's are gunning for, would be between so few teams and not the ones who are currently at risk at being in the top 8.
 

cknights

Well-known member
I don't think it would be set up that way, the 5 playing a possible one. I am opposed to 16 seeds, just way too many bad record teams.


TWO SCENARIOS:

FIRST
WEEK 11
1-4 bye
5 v 12.
6 v 11.
7 v 10.
8 v 9.

WEEK 12:
1 vs 8/9
2 vs 7/10
3 vs 6/11
4 vs 5/12.

SECOND:
To be quite honest, in the day of HUDL the week 12 game can be decided like they do the NFL playoffs about how teams finish.
1 seeds faces highest seed and so on.


Could a 1 play an 8 in week 2 and the 2 play a 10 in my first scenario? Yeah. Or we can do the second scenario.

Either way I would be fine. Seeds are just the harbins, and not necessarily ranked on team ability. Heck, that 10 seed may even be better than the 8 seed that the 1 would play.

Who knows.

The 1 should not have a problem with a bye and opening with the 8 as a worst case scenario.
Right. Just like this year when ML was a 2 seed. I know what you mean. A 2 seed can be better than a 1 etc. But based on this logic, the OHSAA has to have an approved system that would allow for their point system to virtually be meaningless in the first scenario by week 12, only to pick it back up in week 13. In the second scenario, instead of looking at potentially 2-4 playoff sites for the winners, we are looking at any variable of 4-8 playoff sites depending on outcomes for each of the top 4 seeds. I just don't see how it could be adopted. I like your thoughts on the second scenario, I just think there would be far too much planning to find suitable sites and for 28 regions and having 8 potential outcomes in each region going into week 12
 

Ben Cartwright

New member
Depends on what you are trying to solve. Going to 16 teams would solve the regular season schedule gridlock. What does going to 12 with 4 having a bye solve? You are adding 4 teams but you are also giving an incentive to being in the top 4 which would create 6-8 teams per region trying to gerrymander their schedule to give them the best chance of being in the top 4. Which takes us right back to regular season scheduling gridlock. There may or may not be blowouts in either scenario, it is impossible to tell.
 
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