lancaster90
Active member
Who would be in line to be the next coach if they haven't already made that choice? I feel for those kids but an opportunity to return to your home is to tough to pass up. I wish AD/Coach Turner all the best at DCJ.
Mid-State League offseason thread
- Thread starter The Dock
- Start date
lancaster90
Active member
With FCA having had issues with numbers in recent years, I do not want to be negative but could this spell the end for them in football? I worry about Fisher Catholic with there numbers as well.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
We're fine with numbers out here at 1803 G Pike, and will be fine for at least the next five (5) years.
Marcus Pardon has assumed the head coaching position for this fall.
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The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Took some time to think about the recent situation at FCA, in the context of their personal*personnel (yes... both) situation and against their competition, and talked about it with some folks in the area who understand the small school FB scene well.
My takeaway, informed by my own thought but also contributions from friends, was that, for Fairfield Christian, the window for a consistently competitive (4-6+ wins/year) and thriving (25+ players) program closed a while ago. A program, whose origin story and quick rise to competitiveness in the beginning a decade ago, is still alive but not at the same level and depth as it was then. There are still opportunities and benefits for the program to do the things it does well and upon which hats are hung, yes, but in the overall scheme of competing for league titles and postseason victories it seems unlikely.
To reach this thinking I looked at the Cardinal through a holistic, algebraic view that considers what puts programs in the best positions possible to succeed. There were five factors that I looked at: school size, general program history/tradition), community support, administration support and overall athletics caliber.
There are two schools in the Cardinal that check all five of those boxes, and they unsurprisingly are the two with the best teams currently: Berne Union and Worthington Christian.
Fisher checks some of those boxes (program history, community/admin support and athletics caliber) as does Rosecrans. Grove City Christian has some "pencil mark" checks in a couple boxes (school size, decent general tradition.) I'm not going to really speak on Millersport, here, because it requires speaking on the state of a team/program that last competed four years ago. Miller... doesn't really have any of that (except community support and I imagine administrative support.)
With FCA -- the male student body is not very large in #'s, the general boys' athletics have been in a down-period for a while, and when it comes to support (community, administrative) there doesn't really seem to be much to help the cause with. And community support really needs to be thought of more than just "parents." Football alumni, folks in the community generally interested in the success of the program.
My takeaway, informed by my own thought but also contributions from friends, was that, for Fairfield Christian, the window for a consistently competitive (4-6+ wins/year) and thriving (25+ players) program closed a while ago. A program, whose origin story and quick rise to competitiveness in the beginning a decade ago, is still alive but not at the same level and depth as it was then. There are still opportunities and benefits for the program to do the things it does well and upon which hats are hung, yes, but in the overall scheme of competing for league titles and postseason victories it seems unlikely.
To reach this thinking I looked at the Cardinal through a holistic, algebraic view that considers what puts programs in the best positions possible to succeed. There were five factors that I looked at: school size, general program history/tradition), community support, administration support and overall athletics caliber.
There are two schools in the Cardinal that check all five of those boxes, and they unsurprisingly are the two with the best teams currently: Berne Union and Worthington Christian.
Fisher checks some of those boxes (program history, community/admin support and athletics caliber) as does Rosecrans. Grove City Christian has some "pencil mark" checks in a couple boxes (school size, decent general tradition.) I'm not going to really speak on Millersport, here, because it requires speaking on the state of a team/program that last competed four years ago. Miller... doesn't really have any of that (except community support and I imagine administrative support.)
With FCA -- the male student body is not very large in #'s, the general boys' athletics have been in a down-period for a while, and when it comes to support (community, administrative) there doesn't really seem to be much to help the cause with. And community support really needs to be thought of more than just "parents." Football alumni, folks in the community generally interested in the success of the program.
Daubenmire Years were very competitive had 105 kids involved from grade school to high school...then the carpenter years took over and basketball became king...now both programs are a mess
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
I must be missing "something", here. Carpenter was the principal in 2010 when FCA had the 10-0 season. Daubenmire's last season was 2012. The entirety of Daubenmire's time at FCA was with Carpenter as the school principal. Carpenter's son played football at least one year in high school, and did play in middle school. And there were basketball kids that played football all four years.
I remember hearing the "basketball > football" claim back then, but that never really made sense. No one at FCA was forcing kids to pick one or the other.
Hi. I have followed Fairfield Christian athletics from the beginning and still follow loosely. I want to address some comments made and also give some takes.
"Coach Dave" knows football. That is undeniable. He deserves credit for building the original program. Mr. Carpenter deserves credit for endorsing the plan to build football.
The football program has a complicated history. The church never committed to building a facility, so the program played all over the place. They played in Grove City. They played in Millersport and then New Lexington. The mission in the beginning was a thriving middle school team that would become a strong high school team. The cast of coaches and enthusiastic football dads also helped recruit kids to the school out of Pickerington and Bloom-Carroll to play football. Dave was a good football salesman.
Being a good salesman has faults. Wanting an audience is a flawed motivation. Daubenmire failed to separate his personality from the job he was hired to do. This failure came at the expense of our community. That was not the only issue. He was becoming combative to any criticism he faced for things he did or said. He was undermining the school and kept pushing until a decision had to be made. The decision to fire him was not easy, I am sure. When faced with the choice, I appreciate it being made on the principle of preserving command of the school.
If Daubenmire wanted to stay as coach he should have acted like he wanted to coach there. You cannot create a raucous at your workplace and expect to hold your job. You cannot sow discontent and expect to hold your job. You cannot tell players and parents that they should listen to you over the principal and expect to hold your job. No school worth paid tuition is going to bend the knee to the football coach and what he is saying outside of the locker room.
I do not miss Daubenmire. Football success does not outweigh controversy and drama. I do not miss some of the rude parents that jumped onto the ride late so their kids could play for him. Parents that only care about their kids and not other kids.
I do not think we will see our athletics get back to what they once were. However this really has nothing to do with Daubenmire. We don't have a football field. Every school around us has facilities that they have pride in and kids can look forward to playing on. There is very little reason for kids to leave their schools and come here. Especially with sports at play. Lancaster Gales have deep programs and dedicated paper coverage. Kids who stay there get to have a great experience. When is the last time we were in the paper? An article on a good baseball player who was applauded for not transferring to Lancaster.
Bloom-Carroll has had a great last decade for every sport. Liberty Union and even Fairfield Union have solid programs all around. So does Amanda. And the local schools our size that we play in the MSL eat our lunch in sports. Small doesn't sell like it used to. Not our size of small. Not our small school. There are no easy answers. There are some years where it seems like we forget we have a football team. Where only the parents show up. It will take a sustained effort from alumni and motivated parents to get things going in the right direction.
"Coach Dave" knows football. That is undeniable. He deserves credit for building the original program. Mr. Carpenter deserves credit for endorsing the plan to build football.
The football program has a complicated history. The church never committed to building a facility, so the program played all over the place. They played in Grove City. They played in Millersport and then New Lexington. The mission in the beginning was a thriving middle school team that would become a strong high school team. The cast of coaches and enthusiastic football dads also helped recruit kids to the school out of Pickerington and Bloom-Carroll to play football. Dave was a good football salesman.
Being a good salesman has faults. Wanting an audience is a flawed motivation. Daubenmire failed to separate his personality from the job he was hired to do. This failure came at the expense of our community. That was not the only issue. He was becoming combative to any criticism he faced for things he did or said. He was undermining the school and kept pushing until a decision had to be made. The decision to fire him was not easy, I am sure. When faced with the choice, I appreciate it being made on the principle of preserving command of the school.
If Daubenmire wanted to stay as coach he should have acted like he wanted to coach there. You cannot create a raucous at your workplace and expect to hold your job. You cannot sow discontent and expect to hold your job. You cannot tell players and parents that they should listen to you over the principal and expect to hold your job. No school worth paid tuition is going to bend the knee to the football coach and what he is saying outside of the locker room.
I do not miss Daubenmire. Football success does not outweigh controversy and drama. I do not miss some of the rude parents that jumped onto the ride late so their kids could play for him. Parents that only care about their kids and not other kids.
I do not think we will see our athletics get back to what they once were. However this really has nothing to do with Daubenmire. We don't have a football field. Every school around us has facilities that they have pride in and kids can look forward to playing on. There is very little reason for kids to leave their schools and come here. Especially with sports at play. Lancaster Gales have deep programs and dedicated paper coverage. Kids who stay there get to have a great experience. When is the last time we were in the paper? An article on a good baseball player who was applauded for not transferring to Lancaster.
Bloom-Carroll has had a great last decade for every sport. Liberty Union and even Fairfield Union have solid programs all around. So does Amanda. And the local schools our size that we play in the MSL eat our lunch in sports. Small doesn't sell like it used to. Not our size of small. Not our small school. There are no easy answers. There are some years where it seems like we forget we have a football team. Where only the parents show up. It will take a sustained effort from alumni and motivated parents to get things going in the right direction.
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The Dock
Persona Non Grata
The lack of permanency in location (home field) certainly has been a hand behind the program's back.
Yeah, and there isn't a realistic situation where he would be still coaching there today. For lots of obvious reasons.
Small does sell. It just doesn't sell, hardly at all, for the "football first" folks.
Big thing is the FCA community needs to actually step up and support their team whether they're 10-0, 5-5, 3-7, 1-9 or 0-10. I've gone to New Lexington and Millersport for games of theirs in years where they're down and there is not more than 35 people in the stands.
For them a decent season like 4-6 , 5-5 can go far. Spfld Cath, PortsND and Dayton Jefferson non MSL wins. Grove City, Crans and Miller in MSL. So its doable.
Thing that hurts their program too is the small MSL gets overlooked in the area. BU and FC are the big bullies in the Cardinal n they haven’t beaten either in a long time in football. Or any boys sport. Both of their coaches have been around the league for a long time and have their programs at a different level than the Cardinal schools who aren’t Worthington Chr.
Thing that hurts their program too is the small MSL gets overlooked in the area. BU and FC are the big bullies in the Cardinal n they haven’t beaten either in a long time in football. Or any boys sport. Both of their coaches have been around the league for a long time and have their programs at a different level than the Cardinal schools who aren’t Worthington Chr.
lancaster90
Active member
That would be great. Lets hope Ohio State does not play at the same time.
Any word on what FCA and Millersport's numbers are?
I am ready to get back to a normal football season even if I need to have a cooling towel with me the first 6 or 7 weeks because of the heat.
Administrator told me the Cardinal might disband in 2024. Travel and finances are the issues. 2 schools said they won’t commit to the current Cardinal through 2024. Another said if nothing changes with those two then they’ll ask to move divisions. No options exist to replace them. 3 schools said if it goes back to six then they would consider a move to a different division if offered. 3 schools said they wouldn’t leave if went back to six.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
I imagine Miller is one of the two schools who might leave in a couple years. And if Miller doesn't, then GCC might.
...second school is Rosecrans???
No clue who the "three that would stay, three that would look to leave" would be, except Millersport seems like a safe bet to stay. They would have nowhere else to go.
bballfan48
Active member
I have made a few trips down to Miller and from all of the conversations I have had, they are happy in the Cardinal. They have said that this is less travel then their last league. I can't see them wanting to get destroyed in the TVC.
Rosecrans could be one of those.
GCC does not seem to mind the travel. I can't see them going to a different league. The only one that would make sense would be the MOCAL and that doesn't help the travel much. Plus, they are growing and starting an expansion project, They have 35-40 kids out for football right now.
Rosecrans could be one of those.
GCC does not seem to mind the travel. I can't see them going to a different league. The only one that would make sense would be the MOCAL and that doesn't help the travel much. Plus, they are growing and starting an expansion project, They have 35-40 kids out for football right now.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
bballfan, my man! Thanks for clarifying.
Is 35-40 across JH and HS? If its just HS, then wow. Good for them. Last I remember them having those numbers was when Nick Cook was the football coach back around 2013, GCC's first year in the league!
So not Miller and not GCC. Possibly Rosecrans... could this rumor not have legs, then?
bballfan48
Active member
That is just the HS number. The middle school has a good number as well. Heard something about enrollment being up 15% at GCC this year with applications still coming in. If South Western goes masks or Hybrid, I suspect more will come over.
Rosecrans has more possibilities of joining other leagues and still being competitive. Miller left the TVC because of competition and travel. One league game for them was a two hour bus ride, South Galia or something over that way. The worst trip is to GCC and they have been good about playing that on a weekend.
Maybe it is HP but the only good that would do them is in basketball. Soccer, baseball, and softball would get destroyed even worse if they were to leave.
Rosecrans has more possibilities of joining other leagues and still being competitive. Miller left the TVC because of competition and travel. One league game for them was a two hour bus ride, South Galia or something over that way. The worst trip is to GCC and they have been good about playing that on a weekend.
Maybe it is HP but the only good that would do them is in basketball. Soccer, baseball, and softball would get destroyed even worse if they were to leave.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
I dumbly overlooked a key detail in my earlier response to OU and just realized it.
In the Cardinal, administrators (if we're talking superintendents and principals) have very little hand in the athletics operations at their schools. Practically none of them are experienced with sports, except for Carpenter at FCA and Parker at BU.
In the Cardinal, administrators (if we're talking superintendents and principals) have very little hand in the athletics operations at their schools. Practically none of them are experienced with sports, except for Carpenter at FCA and Parker at BU.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Question I have on GCC is if they have someone at the school “in the wings” to take the football program to the next level and building off of the increased numbers. Does their HC realistically plan on being there for another couple of years?
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
^That moment when you realize the MSL-Cardinal is seriously gaining traction toward being a better football conference, with the revival of programs like GCC and FCA along with the dominance of WC & BU... even if it means the program you support might have a tougher row-to-hoe in league play.
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Well-known member
I could see Grove City Christian growing in numbers providing the economy stays solid and the Southwestern School District continues its horrid administrative ways. Right now GCC & the Cardinal is no where near competing at the top level in DVI or DVII for football. GCC would have to move up in the MSL to get to that next level of competition. Getting good numbers out for football is a good start, 35 to 40 at the high school level in DVI or DVII is ok. Coaching, facilities and administrative/family/community support is also very important in building a football program. They all go hand in hand.
Sorry I don’t see the requirement of wearing a mask at nearby opposing school districts to be a main reason for a GCC enrollment increase. That would require a family to make a stand on mask /non-mask at the cost of the GCC tuition.
Question, what is the cost of GCC per year?
Sorry I don’t see the requirement of wearing a mask at nearby opposing school districts to be a main reason for a GCC enrollment increase. That would require a family to make a stand on mask /non-mask at the cost of the GCC tuition.
Question, what is the cost of GCC per year?
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
I don’t anticipate the Cardinal being competitive at the top of DVI or DVII anytime soon. Maybe it can inch closer over the next 3-5 years with increased numbers and some postseason pride. The closest the Cardinal may have come to being near top of D7 competitively was ‘19 Fisher (which... yeah, not quite! LOL)
GCC has a lot of potential with increased school and sports numbers*prowess. In its backyard is one of the largest suburbs in Ohio and within its reach is the Hilltop (from which you can draw the still-remaining middle class, although might be in competition with Ready.)
AndyBernard
New member
Cardinal goes through Title Grove again. Week 10 is coming Dock. Bloom wins the Buckeye.
The rumor discussed is possible. South Gallia withdrew from TVC. Miller has an invite to go back. Rosecrans is on borrowed time. Dennis won’t take HP out. We’re not leaving. Sport and Christian Academy are going nowhere. Sounds like Grove City is fine.
Fishies might leave by 24 because of numbers. Some crazy parents that thought sports were ruining FC went to the Columbus Diocese and had the whole house cleaned in June. They’ll run more people off.
The rumor discussed is possible. South Gallia withdrew from TVC. Miller has an invite to go back. Rosecrans is on borrowed time. Dennis won’t take HP out. We’re not leaving. Sport and Christian Academy are going nowhere. Sounds like Grove City is fine.
Fishies might leave by 24 because of numbers. Some crazy parents that thought sports were ruining FC went to the Columbus Diocese and had the whole house cleaned in June. They’ll run more people off.
bballfan48
Active member
Looking forward to seeing Berne this season. They have a great group lined up for the next few years.
Bloom should roll, last year was supposed to be the down year.
Did not know that about Miller, if that is the case, they will be gone.
Prediction: Miller leaves, Grandview to the Cardinal, Bishop Ready into Grandview's spot
Bloom should roll, last year was supposed to be the down year.
Did not know that about Miller, if that is the case, they will be gone.
Prediction: Miller leaves, Grandview to the Cardinal, Bishop Ready into Grandview's spot
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Yeah. BU is winning the Cardinal. Tell me something I don't know.
"Title Grove?" Huh? Who has the most league titles in boys sports since the Cardinal realigned in 2013?
Looking forward to it, dude. There will probably be a good 1500 people there at Fulton. Buy some 50/50.
*sigh*
I don't agree with the parents that believe it, who represent a small minority of FC folk to begin with. They don't have the school's best interests at heart -- plain and simple. Fortunately, they don't step on the toes of sports and the fine work our coaches do. We have great coaches; we have great kids. The kids recognize the value of their coaches and what it means to play for FC, and they give everything to meet what the coaches see in them.
I have no idea what's going to happen in the future. But they're not going to get banged out of the MSL.
- TM
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The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Don’t know all the details on that (sad news!), but I did notice some area scrimmages weren’t having QB’s wear the “Do Not Tackle” jersey.