Mid-State League 2020-2021

Don’t like the idea of moving Harvest Prep. There at least should be an effort to build camaraderie off the court first. Imagine activities like student ambassadorships to each others schools, collaborative charity events or even a video game tournament like 2K with the varsity teams and what good could come out of those common ground experiences.

If sports are about being leadership qualities and developing respect for others then competition results shouldn’t be what stands in the way of those arguments to have sports. If scores are what stand in the way of building better teenagers through sports then compensate for where sports are falling short & build from there. The kids probably would feel differently on HP if they were given a chance to have experiences beyond basketball games. Familiarity and common cause with peers builds respect, and if basketball creates hard feelings then it’s a matter of there not being any respect in the first place.

Give kids opportunities and give many of them! Where the opportunities fail in its intentions, pursue different ones that reach the same goal as the currently failing ones.
 
Anyone know what's up with Berne Union? Lost big the other day to Patriot Prep?


I am not sure what is up with Berne but I have heard some D4 coaches saying that Patriot should be pretty decent this year. It does not look like they have played many games but they almost knocked off Fisher in the tournament last year and I think they brought back just about everyone.
 
It does seem like Patriot seems strong this year. Think they got a new coach a year or two ago and he seems to have them trending in the right direction.

As for Berne, maybe they had guys quarantined or fresh out of quarantine. I expect a lot of weird scores this year.
There’s some weird matchups this year too. Seems most schools are just trying to get 22 games in, regardless of who it is against.
 
Standings for the Cardinal, per 270Hoops

Harvest Prep 6-0 (3-0)
Millersport 3-1 (3-1)
Rosecrans 3-1 (2-0)
Berne Union 4-4 (2-1)
Fisher 3-4 (2-2)
FCA 1-4 (1-2)
GCC 2-6 (0-5)
Miller 0-4 (0-4)

Any thoughts on this? I know FC beat MP last night, but my guess is MP would (will) probably beat FC on the Lake.

Seems like the league could be broken into tiers, a la

I. - HP

II. a - BR
II. b - MP, FC, BU
II. c - FCA, GCC

III. Miller

Seems like there wouldn't necessarily be much difference separating the "II. b" from "II. c", but enough difference to separate the "II. a" from "II. c"
 
I have watched some of the live streams of different teams.

No one will come within 20 of HP this year.

Rosecrans may have trouble defending BU in the post but if those two shooters get going, watch out.

I feel awful for MP. They are only allowed to play league games this season. I am not sure why the ruling was made but hurts a great senior class. I thought they might get Fisher but they could not control the glass. I am sure long layoffs between games are not helping.

GCC has struggled. I have seen moments when they play great, then moments where they show their age. I would not be surprised if they surprise a few of those II a&b teams second time through.

Tough first year in the league for Miller. Watching the JV games, I don't see it getting much better.
 
Miller might not win a game in the league for, like, a few years. Boys hoops is the one sport where that school is going to be "without a paddle" in the Cardinal.

I got GCC pulling the upset tonight in Lancaster! We'll see. There should be a Boxcast link to watch the game live, tonight. I'll post it when I see it. Check back here around 7-7:15.

MP might not be able to afford playing non-league games this season, for all we know.

BU seems to be the big "jekyll-and-hyde" team this season. Haven't gotten to see FCA play at all this year, but I didn't think they were going to have much this season?
 
I saw the live stream of FCA and Granville Christian. FCA really struggles to score. I think the only 3 they made was a buzzer beater. Granville Christian wasn't exactly impressive, but then again most of D4 is really down this year.
 
I saw the live stream of FCA and Granville Christian. FCA really struggles to score. I think the only 3 they made was a buzzer beater. Granville Christian wasn't exactly impressive, but then again most of D4 is really down this year.
I am curious if Coach Hooper decides to retires after this season. It'll be a weird feeling if/when he does. This is his 50th year of coaching a sport, I believe. He is also only the second varsity coach in the program's history.
 
I am curious if Coach Hooper decides to retires after this season. It'll be a weird feeling if/when he does. This is his 50th year of coaching a sport, I believe. He is also only the second varsity coach in the program's history.

Wow that’s incredible on both stats you just gave. I didn’t realize FCA had only been around for that short of a time too.

Their JV team was good last year from what I remember, but I know they’ve been losing some players too. Not quite the bed of talent they’ve had in years past.
 
Saw this posted on a link from the football forum, and thought it would be fun to discuss... in the context of basketball *OR* all sports

1-How do you rate your conference (rate between 1 and 10 – 10 being the highest score)

2-How does your conference compare to other area conferences (rate between 1 and 10 – 10 being the highest score)

3-Should the conference be open to allowing associate members to compete in one sport only

4-Is Divisional play needed

5-Are you happy with the number of visiting fans who attend conference games

6-Travel miles to conference opponent sites

7-How would you rate conference members facilities (please list best and worst facilities)

8-Would you like to see expansion

9-How important would corporate sponsorship (or additional income) be to the conference

10-Leadership of the conference

11-Does conference play prepare your school for tournament play

12-How many schools in the conference do you consider – League rivals [List schools]
 
Saw this posted on a link from the football forum, and thought it would be fun to discuss... in the context of basketball *OR* all sports

1-How do you rate your conference (rate between 1 and 10 – 10 being the highest score)

2-How does your conference compare to other area conferences (rate between 1 and 10 – 10 being the highest score)

3-Should the conference be open to allowing associate members to compete in one sport only

4-Is Divisional play needed

5-Are you happy with the number of visiting fans who attend conference games

6-Travel miles to conference opponent sites

7-How would you rate conference members facilities (please list best and worst facilities)

8-Would you like to see expansion

9-How important would corporate sponsorship (or additional income) be to the conference

10-Leadership of the conference

11-Does conference play prepare your school for tournament play

12-How many schools in the conference do you consider – League rivals [List schools]

Cool concept! I’d love to hear from someone with more familiarity than me on this. I could take a crack at MOCAL answers but this is an MSL thread and I don’t think anyone really cares a whole lot about it haha.
 
I saw an article in the Lancaster EG from the other day that says FC is back in quarantine. Looking at schedules online, GCC might be off right now too. Any other schools having issues?
 
I saw an article in the Lancaster EG from the other day that says FC is back in quarantine. Looking at schedules online, GCC might be off right now too. Any other schools having issues?
Looks like GCC is off until next Friday due to COVID issues.

I think all of the schools, except Rosecrans, Miller and HP have now had some protocol-related pauses.
 
Rosecrans had issues as the season started and were delayed.

Did anyone else play this weekend besides Berne/HP?

I wonder what schools will take advantage of the new OHSAA rule to keep playing up until the state tournament.
 
Anyone bold enough to play a double header? I can't imagine small schools like this playing 2 games in one day, especially if it's against another opponent, but I'm curious to see if someone gives it a shot.
 
Playing a double header only really makes sense if a team hasn’t already gotten the front half of the round-robin done against a certain league foe.

I’ve been told we probably won’t do the double-header, since we’re not in danger of having league games not made up.

Can’t wait for baseball.
 
Was Berne Union missing players Tuesday? Heard Miller had a chance to win it in Sugar Grove.

It looks like most of the teams are back playing this week.
 
Was Berne Union missing players Tuesday? Heard Miller had a chance to win it in Sugar Grove.

It looks like most of the teams are back playing this week.
I don't think BU is doing individual player quarantines, but I could be wrong. Like I said, BU seems very jekyll-and-hyde this season. Shocked to see Miller keep it that close.
 
I finally got to attend an in person game this year! Made it down to the Grove Saturday to watch BU and GCC. Great game for the first 20 minutes. GCC went on an 8-0 run to cut it to 1 and then that was all she wrote. Great push back by BU to take control of the game after that.

I don't understand why the big from BU does not want to play under the basket. The kid is 6'6 or 6'7 and tallest kid on GCC was maybe 6'1.

The parents from GCC said they had two practices after another quarantine.

It looks like Fisher comes out of quarantine this week as well.

Any ideas on what the seeding might look like Sunday?
 
Seeding is going to be so unpredictable this weekend. I could totally see some coaches just ranking all of the schools in their conference at the top. Wouldn't surprise me to see a team ranked 4th by one coach and 14th by another. The good news is that there are two Districts in Central (also that Wellington is taking a year to go to D3). It's been awhile since I've wasted too much time on a rundown, so here it goes:

Records (as of 2/1 from the Dispatch)
Berne Union: 7-7
Cardington-Lincoln: 13-4
Danville: 1-14
Delaware Christian: 5-7
East Knox: 8-7
Fairfield Christian: 1-7
Fisher Catholic: 6-4
Grandview Heights: 3-7
Granville Christian: 4-9
Grove City Christian: 4-7
Madison Christian: 5-6
Millersport: 6-3
Newark Catholic: 6-6
Northside Christian: 1-9
Patriot Prep: 8-3
Ridgedale: 1-9
Shekinah Christian: 7-7
Tree of Life Christian: 10-4

Maybe I'll try to narrow it down later in the week, but here's my early prognostication with teams lumped into tiers. I think teams could win or lose up or down 1 tier if the conditions are right, but in this wild year who knows?

Tier 1 (1-4)
Cardington-Lincoln
Grandview Heights
Newark Catholic
Patriot Prep

Tier 2 (5-8)
Berne Union
East Knox
Fisher catholic
Millersport

Tier 3 (9-11)
Grove City Christian
Shekinah Christian
Tree of Life

Tier 4 (12-18)
Danville
Delaware Christian
Granville Christian
Madison Christian
Fairfield Christian
Northside Christian
Ridgedale

This year is just so dumb though, even just from a MOCAL perspective. I probably should have put Tree of Life higher because they are 10-4 and smashed the second place team in the conference. But they were losing in the final minute to a 1-9 Northside Christian team last week. TOL also got outright obliterated by Grandview Heights, who is down this year and plays a brutal schedule, but could probably win the district with a losing record.

Newark Catholic plays a tough schedule and beat Cardington and Fisher early in the year, but have had some duds just like everyone else. Losing 72-12 to Licking Heights? Who was out?

If I had to guess, I would think Patriot Prep and Grandview Heights would be the favorites, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any Tier 1 team win. Patriot has alot of experience, has depth that most D4 teams don't have, and has played well in some tough games already. They've beaten an improved D1 Westland team, smashed Berne Union, and hung with Caldwell and Wellington. They would have my hypothetical #1 vote and I think their coach deserves COY.
 
Seeding is going to be so unpredictable this weekend. I could totally see some coaches just ranking all of the schools in their conference at the top. Wouldn't surprise me to see a team ranked 4th by one coach and 14th by another. The good news is that there are two Districts in Central (also that Wellington is taking a year to go to D3). It's been awhile since I've wasted too much time on a rundown, so here it goes:

Records (as of 2/1 from the Dispatch)
Berne Union: 7-7
Cardington-Lincoln: 13-4
Danville: 1-14
Delaware Christian: 5-7
East Knox: 8-7
Fairfield Christian: 1-7
Fisher Catholic: 6-4
Grandview Heights: 3-7
Granville Christian: 4-9
Grove City Christian: 4-7
Madison Christian: 5-6
Millersport: 6-3
Newark Catholic: 6-6
Northside Christian: 1-9
Patriot Prep: 8-3
Ridgedale: 1-9
Shekinah Christian: 7-7
Tree of Life Christian: 10-4

Maybe I'll try to narrow it down later in the week, but here's my early prognostication with teams lumped into tiers. I think teams could win or lose up or down 1 tier if the conditions are right, but in this wild year who knows?

Tier 1 (1-4)
Cardington-Lincoln
Grandview Heights
Newark Catholic
Patriot Prep

Tier 2 (5-8)
Berne Union
East Knox
Fisher catholic
Millersport

Tier 3 (9-11)
Grove City Christian
Shekinah Christian
Tree of Life

Tier 4 (12-18)
Danville
Delaware Christian
Granville Christian
Madison Christian
Fairfield Christian
Northside Christian
Ridgedale

This year is just so dumb though, even just from a MOCAL perspective. I probably should have put Tree of Life higher because they are 10-4 and smashed the second place team in the conference. But they were losing in the final minute to a 1-9 Northside Christian team last week. TOL also got outright obliterated by Grandview Heights, who is down this year and plays a brutal schedule, but could probably win the district with a losing record.

Newark Catholic plays a tough schedule and beat Cardington and Fisher early in the year, but have had some duds just like everyone else. Losing 72-12 to Licking Heights? Who was out?

If I had to guess, I would think Patriot Prep and Grandview Heights would be the favorites, but it wouldn't surprise me to see any Tier 1 team win. Patriot has alot of experience, has depth that most D4 teams don't have, and has played well in some tough games already. They've beaten an improved D1 Westland team, smashed Berne Union, and hung with Caldwell and Wellington. They would have my hypothetical #1 vote and I think their coach deserves COY.
Great work, Snowman!

Agree on PPA coach being CoTY candidate.

NC supposedly has some injury problems.

Does anyone have an idea how good Cardington really is, this year?
 
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I finally got to attend an in person game this year! Made it down to the Grove Saturday to watch BU and GCC. Great game for the first 20 minutes. GCC went on an 8-0 run to cut it to 1 and then that was all she wrote. Great push back by BU to take control of the game after that.

I don't understand why the big from BU does not want to play under the basket. The kid is 6'6 or 6'7 and tallest kid on GCC was maybe 6'1.

The parents from GCC said they had two practices after another quarantine.

It looks like Fisher comes out of quarantine this week as well.

Any ideas on what the seeding might look like Sunday?
BU, for whatever reason, never stresses big man basketball. When Blevins had 6'10" Hunter Martin around the time the Cardinal reformed (c. 2014) he rarely played underneath. McKnight might not be too familiar with the idea of how to develop big men. I know when his brother coached at FC big man development wasn't his forte. Maybe the kid from BU just doesn't have it?

Some of the best rebounders in the league have been 6'1-6'3". Michael Howard from GCC, way back in the day, could kill it down low. One of my favorite players to have watched.
 
That is a great point about Martin. I have always thought in this league, if you have a big like that, not many teams will be able to stop you down low.

I remember watching Howard during his time at GCC. Great rebounder, he put up a 48 pt and 20 something rebound performance his senior year. I saw he is now on the staff at GCC. That is a great move by Timlin to bring him back around his young team.

Great recap by Snowman. That is how I see it playing out. The biggest question is how high up do you go with GCC and FCA. Some tough losses to division teams but GCC has taken the MOCAL to the shed. Talking to a parent, they scrimmaged Shekinah and said it wasn't close with GCC doing whatever they wanted.

I look at some of the Cardinal scores and what the lower Cardinal teams have done to the MOCAL teams, is the gap really that big between the two? Or is this just a bad year for the MOCAL?
 
I feel another rundown coming haha. I can't stop once I get started apparently.

I don't know how good the Cardinal is, but I do know the MOCAL is very, very down. I wouldn’t argue with you on GCC and being able to run through the MOCAL (other than maybe Tree of Life). I might be overrating Shekinah based on past success on how they typically improve by the end of the year, so maybe drop them down? Does GCC press? A lot of times scrimmages can be deceiving, especially with young teams against pressure. I think GCC will be VERY good in a couple years with their extremely young roster. Granville did beat Fairfield by double digits, so I would leave Fairfield at the bottom tier.

I’m not as familiar with the MOCAL as past years since I've only watched a few streams and haven't gone to games, but I do know it’s a tough year for the conference, which is super young. I expect next season to be much better for nearly every team. Here’s a bit of a rundown from what I’ve been told and seen from the rosters and stats on 270 Hoops:

- Tree of Life (1 senior who gets PT): 7 or 8 varsity level players. Lots of 6’-6’3” guys to throw out there. Only 1 senior in the rotation and he’s a bench player. They also got a couple transfers who will need to sit out the second half of the season. Should be pretty solid next year and will win the conference this year simply because they have more than 3 guys who can help at a varsity level.

- Shekinah (0 seniors): Only 1 guy who can score. Should be improved if everyone comes back next year. Had some injuries during the recent tough stretch that led to some bad blowouts. Hard to say how good they actually are, but it’s likely not good enough to win a sectional like past years. They are 4-1 in the conference with the only loss coming to Tree of Life (a blowout loss).

- Delaware Christian (3 seniors): 2 impact seniors and 1 solid junior, although the junior has been injured most of the year. That’s it. The seniors are very good though (one just got his 1,000th career point). They will probably be the only conference team who gets worse by next year.

- Granville Christian (1 senior): Junior Joe Benvie scored 39 points IN A HALF (51 in the game) earlier this year. He’s their only scorer though. Should be much better next year.

- Madison Christian (2 seniors): Not there yet but playing with more of an edge this year. Had some good junior high teams that are making an impact as underclassmen. Definitely better than last year's 1-win team. Hung with GCC for awhile but couldn't keep up in the second half. Will be improved next year.

- Northside Christian (1 senior): The weirdest call to make in terms of evaluation. 1-9 record. Gotten blown out early by pressing teams, including giving up over 100 to GCC. Faced some good opponents and nearly beat Tree of Life. Also lost to some weak opponents. They have a 6’3” STUD 8th grader who can shoot lights out, has great court vision, and is the fastest player on the court. Their 8th grade team is winning every game by 30+ points. They could be very very good and turn the tables on the Northside reputation in the coming years if everyone stays.

Maybe I’m off on some of this, but the general theme I think is that next year will be a better year for the MOCAL, at least based on impact seniors on the roster. Also, rumor is that Liberty Christian will be back in OHSAA and rejoining the MOCAL for 2021-22.

Other than Tree of Life, I don’t see a MOCAL team winning a game this year but could see several winning games next season.
 
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That is a great point about Martin. I have always thought in this league, if you have a big like that, not many teams will be able to stop you down low.

I remember watching Howard during his time at GCC. Great rebounder, he put up a 48 pt and 20 something rebound performance his senior year. I saw he is now on the staff at GCC. That is a great move by Timlin to bring him back around his young team.

Great recap by Snowman. That is how I see it playing out. The biggest question is how high up do you go with GCC and FCA. Some tough losses to division teams but GCC has taken the MOCAL to the shed. Talking to a parent, they scrimmaged Shekinah and said it wasn't close with GCC doing whatever they wanted.

I look at some of the Cardinal scores and what the lower Cardinal teams have done to the MOCAL teams, is the gap really that big between the two? Or is this just a bad year for the MOCAL?
Howard went on to play at Otterbein, I believe. Yeah -- I remember that game you're referring to. It was against Tree of Life. I didn't go to the game but I remember it well because that was an insane stat-line. Our center that year, "Goggles" and all 6'1" of him, really enjoyed getting to play against him and talk to him off-the-court & diamond.

Michael's contemporaries in basketball and baseball at FC, the Irish senior class ('14), as a whole held a tremendous amount of respect to him as a competitor and as a peer for that matter. The kids would refer to him, in a positive light, in the third-person as "D-Mike" as a reference to then-NBA superstar Dwight Howard. Play on his name, homage to his heart and skill on the court & diamond. Getting that level of respect as a competitor and as a peer from the FC senior class says a lot, because that group was super-jagged having played three years against Berne Union, Grandview, Licking Heights (Ronnie Dawson, who went on to be a 2nd round pick by the Houston Astros), Liberty Union and West Jefferson with lots of, uh, "spirited" competition. "Spirited", as in lots of high-energy ball with loads of jawing back-and-forth on the court, diamond and from dugout-to-dugout. Had a year or two in that spell where the league three-way split thanks to that class.

So, when GH+LH+LU+WJ leave after the spring of '13 these kids lost most of their best rivalries they cherished. In comes GCC, who they basically took to the woodshed the year before in non-league in Boys Hoops (that game started 30-3 in favor of FC) and those FC kids are thinking "well these new guys aren't very good." First game in the basketball series, at FC, Irish win a pretty energetic game by a decently comfortable margin. Howard had a great game. Second game that year? Timlin's squad just dribbles FC out of the Eagles' Nest. Dominated. Thrashed. Baseball comes around and FC gets a decent win (6-0) the first time around on Hoover Road. The return game was going to decide league championship, as it were last game in the entire Cardinal. FC was in the drivers' seat at 8-1 (loss to Berne), BU was 8-2 (loss to FC and GCC) and GCC was 7-2 (loss to BU and FC.) Win = outright; loss = 3-way split. Howard smacks one out, with two on, about 350' in deep-left. 5-1 GCC, bottom 6, Josh Evans (FC) answers back with his own 3-run shot. 5-4 going into b7, with R.I.S.P., two outs and J.E. takes the only called-strike in his career at the plate to end the game. Pure heartbreak. After, Michael and Tyler Elgin (think that's his name, the shorter kid who played both sports) picked him up and were very genteel in their celebration. To that entire senior class, that game was probably the most meaningful and soul-building experience they got to have in sports. Losing that one put a lot of things into perspective. They had just experienced losing a very well-respected and successful baseball coach to a firing they didn't understand in the off-season, and the basketball players had five different coaches in four years with the hired basketball head coach for their senior season generating a lot of problems that was hurting the kids. And football was just getting really nowhere with a 25-man roster playing 70/80-man depth charts as often as they were pre-2013 Cardinal and in the non-league schedule for the inaugural "new Cardinal" 2013 season.

Those kids badly wanted to win in everything they could, for pride and for the love of their school, and part of the problem was facing undue obstacles beyond the competition. Playing Howard, Elgin, Aulick, Whitaker and company in the various sports that year brought things full circle for them. Those Eagles were a needed salve to the spirit of competition and what it means to play. They probably won't remember anyone in particular aside from Michael (sorry guys!), but they will say that playing GCC that year was one of the most formative experiences in their memory.

Thanks for taking the time to read all of that^. I'm glad to read he's on the staff at GCC. He'll be great for them.
 
I feel another rundown coming haha. I can't stop once I get started apparently.

I don't know how good the Cardinal is, but I do know the MOCAL is very, very down. I wouldn’t argue with you on GCC and being able to run through the MOCAL (other than maybe Tree of Life). I might be overrating Shekinah based on past success on how they typically improve by the end of the year, so maybe drop them down? Does GCC press? A lot of times scrimmages can be deceiving, especially with young teams against pressure. I think GCC will be VERY good in a couple years with their extremely young roster. Granville did beat Fairfield by double digits, so I would leave Fairfield at the bottom tier.

I’m not as familiar with the MOCAL as past years since I've only watched a few streams and haven't gone to games, but I do know it’s a tough year for the conference, which is super young. I expect next season to be much better for nearly every team. Here’s a bit of a rundown from what I’ve been told and seen from the rosters and stats on 270 Hoops:

- Tree of Life (1 senior who gets PT): 7 or 8 varsity level players. Lots of 6’-6’3” guys to throw out there. Only 1 senior in the rotation and he’s a bench player. They also got a couple transfers who will need to sit out the second half of the season. Should be pretty solid next year and will win the conference this year simply because they have more than 3 guys who can help at a varsity level.

- Shekinah (0 seniors): Only 1 guy who can score. Should be improved if everyone comes back next year. Had some injuries during the recent tough stretch that led to some bad blowouts. Hard to say how good they actually are, but it’s likely not good enough to win a sectional like past years. They are 4-1 in the conference with the only loss coming to Tree of Life (a blowout loss).

- Delaware Christian (3 seniors): 2 impact seniors and 1 solid junior, although the junior has been injured most of the year. That’s it. The seniors are very good though (one just got his 1,000th career point). They will probably be the only conference team who gets worse by next year.

- Granville Christian (1 senior): Junior Joe Benvie scored 39 points IN A HALF (51 in the game) earlier this year. He’s their only scorer though. Should be much better next year.

- Madison Christian (2 seniors): Not there yet but playing with more of an edge this year. Had some good junior high teams that are making an impact as underclassmen. Definitely better than last year's 1-win team. Hung with GCC for awhile but couldn't keep up in the second half. Will be improved next year.

- Northside Christian (1 senior): The weirdest call to make in terms of evaluation. 1-9 record. Gotten blown out early by pressing teams, including giving up over 100 to GCC. Faced some good opponents and nearly beat Tree of Life. Also lost to some weak opponents. They have a 6’3” STUD 8th grader who can shoot lights out, has great court vision, and is the fastest player on the court. Their 8th grade team is winning every game by 30+ points. They could be very very good and turn the tables on the Northside reputation in the coming years if everyone stays.

Maybe I’m off on some of this, but the general theme I think is that next year will be a better year for the MOCAL, at least based on impact seniors on the roster. Also, rumor is that Liberty Christian will be back in OHSAA and rejoining the MOCAL for 2021-22.

Other than Tree of Life, I don’t see a MOCAL team winning a game this year but could see several winning games next season.
Good to read this on the MOCAL front. Great stuff, again. It is very neat, too, that such a league where the schools are "lower-profile" has this dedicated analysis and advocacy.

I would also be interested in reading what you have to say re: post #43 and post #44.
 
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