Mentor Cardinals Football 2020

StraightCashHomey said:
Well all the remaining SWC schools will be looking for new teams to schedule now that three teams have left. Maybe more will as well.
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Swc will be at 8 with Elyria joining in 2021. That is the ideal league size because you only have to schedule ooc the first 3 weeks and then you're set.
 
MentorGrad2002 said:
What are you implying here ? The reason Mentor has trouble scheduling games is most publics won't play them. They aren't passing valid offers up. Avon getting a home game and us not getting one as well doesnt benefit us. Avon doesn't have the resume to demand we play them away and not get a return.
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No you misunderstood my point. The idea that Mentor would choose to play Avon over St Ed’s if all else was equal is the same reason that Canton McKinley chooses to play Warren Harding and visa versa instead of Mentor. (McKinley and WGH is just an example). It’s logical.
 
Bad Blake said:
No you misunderstood my point. The idea that Mentor would choose to play Avon over St Ed’s if all else was equal is the same reason that Canton McKinley chooses to play Warren Harding and visa versa instead of Mentor. (McKinley and WGH is just an example). It’s logical.
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No it's not because that implies that Mentor is scared of St Eds and beneath them. Neither is the case. We've played eds at a .500 clip and have knocked them out of the playoffs multiple times in recent years.

Mentor just wants to play like minded public schools instead of having to play all privates or a team from Canada.

McKinley on the other hand will schedule Euclid but not Mentor. And they would play us when we were down in the mid to late 90s but avoid us now. It's more about public schools not having the stones to play us. And we were a lot worse in mid 90s than McKinley is now.
 
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MentorGrad2002 said:
No it's not because that implies that Mentor is scared of St Eds and beneath them. Neither is the case. We've played eds at a .500 clip and have knocked them out of the playoffs multiple times in recent years.

Mentor just wants to play like minded public schools instead of having to play all privates or a team from Canada.

McKinley on the other hand will schedule Euclid but not Mentor. And they would play us when we were down in the mid to late 90s but avoid us now. It's more about public schools not having the stones to play us. And we were a lot worse in mid 90s than McKinley is now.
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I did not imply Mentor is scared of St. Ed’s. You are the one lamenting that you have to play Ed’s and Iggy’s. My point is that if it is true that Mentor would rather play a home and home with Avon than St. Ed’s, then you can use that exact same line of thinking as to why McKinley would rather play Euclid or Warren Harding than Mentor.

If those schools were also playing a Canadian school that week, or a Senate league school, I could see your point. But they aren’t searching for a game, so why would they schedule Mentor? Believe it or not they do not take your ego into consideration when they make their schedules.
 
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Bad Blake said:
I did not imply Mentor is scared of St. Ed’s. You are the one lamenting that you have to play Ed’s and Iggy’s. My point is that if it is true that Mentor would rather play a home and home with Avon than St. Ed’s, then you can use that exact same line of thinking as to why McKinley would rather play Euclid or Warren Harding than Mentor.
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And again that's incorrect

McKinley wants to play those teams over Mentor because they want an easier game

Mentor wants to play public schools over Eds because they want to play like minded public schools who are still competent programs and a challenge.

No public school should have to schedule all privates and Canada teams out of conference. Mentor still played McKinley wheen we sucked. McKinley doesn't suck but they won't step up now They are one of many public schools like this
 
MentorGrad2002 said:
And again that's incorrect

McKinley wants to play those teams over Mentor because they want an easier game

Mentor wants to play public schools over Eds because they want to play like minded public schools who are still competent programs and a challenge.

No public school should have to schedule all privates and Canada teams out of conference. Mentor still played McKinley wheen we sucked. McKinley doesn't suck but they won't step up now They are one of many public schools like this
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Mentor has become a victim of their own success.
 
Just to clarify. Avon needed a 2018 Week 1 home game and was unable to offer a return game due to future schedule obligations. They negotiated with Mentor and they went back and forth about the financial arrangements for a few weeks. Just as Avon and Mentor agreed to terms, Ed’s contacted Mentor with a proposal to play at Mentor in Week 1 2018 and pay money to Mentor as well. It was a great deal for Mentor and they took it. Can’t blame them for doing so. Mentor certainly doesn’t duck anyone.
 
MentorGrad2002 said:
And again that's incorrect

McKinley wants to play those teams over Mentor because they want an easier game

Mentor wants to play public schools over Eds because they want to play like minded public schools who are still competent programs and a challenge.

No public school should have to schedule all privates and Canada teams out of conference. Mentor still played McKinley wheen we sucked. McKinley doesn't suck but they won't step up now They are one of many public schools like this
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I love how you know exactly why schools schedule like they do. How in the hell do you know why McKinley wants to schedule the way they do? The more I read your stuff the more I'm convinced you're just a whiney little child.
 
John Lee Pettimore said:
I love how you know exactly why schools schedule like they do. How in the hell do you know why McKinley wants to schedule the way they do? The more I read your stuff the more I'm convinced you're just a whiney little child.
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Here's the facts. They were all about playing us while we were down. Now they won't give us the time of the day. And Mentor in the mid 90s was way worse than McKinley at the present time

I don't really care what you or anyone else thinks of me on here. For the record, coming from you, those comments are particularly hilarious though
 
cjb56 said:
Just to clarify. Avon needed a 2018 Week 1 home game and was unable to offer a return game due to future schedule obligations. They negotiated with Mentor and they went back and forth about the financial arrangements for a few weeks. Just as Avon and Mentor agreed to terms, Ed’s contacted Mentor with a proposal to play at Mentor in Week 1 2018 and pay money to Mentor as well. It was a great deal for Mentor and they took it. Can’t blame them for doing so. Mentor certainly doesn’t duck anyone.
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Do you have proof of paid money too? Eds got a return game at Lakewood from us. It's more about both teams getting a home game here. Mentor likes to do home and homes. They aren't going to give a program a home game without them returning the favor. That's just fair scheduling
 
MentorGrad2002 said:
Do you have proof of paid money too? Eds got a return game at Lakewood from us. It's more about both teams getting a home game here. Mentor likes to do home and homes. They aren't going to give a program a home game without them returning the favor. That's just fair scheduling
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I agree. Avon was in a scheduling bind that year, though. A home and home with Mentor is more possible now that the SWC is back to the ideal league size of 8.

Ed’s definitely sweetened the pot for Mentor over what Avon could offer. Mentor got a lot more gate and eventually a return game.
 
cjb56 said:
I agree. Avon was in a scheduling bind that year, though. A home and home with Mentor is more possible now that the SWC is back to the ideal league size of 8.

Ed’s definitely sweetened the pot for Mentor over what Avon could offer. Mentor got a lot more gate and eventually a return game.
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So you have no proof ?

When the deal was signed with Eds it was a 2 year deal immediately. It wasn't one team getting a home game and the other getting a return one at a later date.

I actually talked to the AD about his right away. The narrative you are saying isn't what happened. Don't have to sweeten the pot here. Home and home is better than just an away game

Eds and Mentor just did another home and home starting this year
 
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John Lee Pettimore said:
Exactly Blake....Where is your proof 2002 that McKinley wants to, "play those teams over Mentor because they are an easier game?"
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They won't schedule us now and would then. You know damn well why. Euclid doesn't bring a bigger crowd than us. It's pretty easy to detect why

But nice try guys.

Eds and Mentor was always home and home. The guy was flatout wrong.
 
I don't know why Mentor fans are so upset about not being able to schedule. Every team that has success have this problem. When Fitch used to be one of the better teams in D1, no one would schedule us. We had to bring in teams from Canada to round out the schedule. I think Mentor's main concern this year is the guy who is replacing Triv. When Hartman left Fitch no one thought it would impact us that much because almost the whole staff Hartman had was still there. The DC took over as head coach. We all loved the DC. He was great. He was terrible as a head coach, and the team took a huge step back. We were loaded that first year after Hartman, and we lost three games. Two of those were caused by bone-headed decisions by the coaching staff. It was clear that the team wasn't as disciplined, and we did not get better as the season progressed. The next couple of hires were terrible. Annarella righted the ship, but he was not a good as Hartman. The hire by Mentor seems to be a better decision than the ones Fitch made, but Mentor wasn't that good before Triv came in. We used to play Mentor and we always expected to beat them and usually did rather easily. I would worry about the guy who is running the show because if Mentor takes a step back and is not as good as it has been, the top area players will go back to Lake Catholic, and Mentor will be mediocre once more. Take it as a compliment that schools avoid you.
 
cardzfan1234 said:
The schedule is filled, so any conversation about all of these other teams, who Mentor should/shouldn't schedule, who should schedule them, etc. are all irrelevant. Here is some relevant info on the 2020 team:

QB - Ian Kipp
RB - Riley Coughlin
WR - Hutch Baird
WR - ?
WR - ?
WR - ?
LT - Hunter Colao
C - Stan Zalewski
RT - Tommy Shea
LG - ?
RG - ?

Offensively, the team is pretty set at QB, RB, and the offensive line. Wide receiver is a huge question mark. Baird stepped in after Vernon got hurt. His numbers (25 catches, 269 yards in probably 8 or 9 games) were fine as the 3rd or 4th option. Underclassmen listed on the two-deep in 2019 were Eric Coode, Sean Allgood, and Colin DePasquale. In garbage time last year, which you won't see many passes thrown, the trio combined for 5 catches.

DE - Brenan Vernon
DT - Preston Cardina
DT - ? (maybe Benny LoDuca)
DE - Greg Predina
LB - Evan Boyd
LB - ?
LB - ?
DB - Noah Gladish
DB - ?
DB - ?
DB - ?

Last year's two-deep chart had three junior linebackers listed as backups (Jeff Norwood, Andrew Edward, and Aiden Limtury). Along with Boyd, those guys should be in the mix for starting linebacker spots. I can't say I know anything about any of them other than seeing Norwood on the JV basketball team the past two years. I honestly can't say I noticed any of them on the football field, but I'm not super observant about backups. In the secondary, three sophomores were listed on the two-deep (Mike Harrison, Antonio Bertolami, and Kenny Jordan). Gladish is by far the most experienced returner, as he has been starting since he was a sophomore.

Over the years, Mentor has gone back and forth between a 3-4 and 4-3 defense. It is hard to argue last year's results with a 3-4, but I strongly feel the team needs to go back to a 4-3. Last year's defense had a lot of talent and experience at linebacker, so four of them was justified. In 2020, the strength on defense is the size, depth, and talent up front. Use four guys. Let Vernon be in one-on-one matchups all season. I hope that is the case this season. On top of the three experienced guys they are bringing back, I'm sure there are some other guys that can contribute. LoDuca was a big sophomore I noticed playing in the Shaker game. He looked like someone who could step in and start in 2020.

Edit: As for special teams, kicker Andrew Smith is returning. I know he missed a couple FG's in the state semifinal, but he hit 9-11 FG's before that point, including a couple in the 40's. He missed just one PAT all year...can't remember if it was blocked or not. He is a pretty good kicker and it is nice to bring him back.
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This is a pretty good list cardzfan. I don't have much to add.

QB - Ian Kipp (Backups Hawley, and Floriea graduated. I'm not sure who the QB of the future is)
RB - Riley Coughlin (Losing Trobel is huge but Coughlin looked pretty good last year)
WR - Hutch Baird (Lost Floriea, Luke, Vernon, Fulmer. Aiden Buckley started at KR at the end of last year and is listed as a WR. He'll be a Sr. next year. I don't know anyone else besides Baird and Coode).
WR - ?
WR - ?
WR - ?
LT - Hunter Colao (Lost Kaleal, Floyd, and Hatcher).
C - Stan Zalewski
RT - Tommy Shea
LG - ?
RG - ?

DE - Brenan Vernon (lost Ruffin and Norris on the DL. Schmidt too but he was injured).
DT - Preston Cardina
DT - ? (maybe Benny LoDuca)
DE - Greg Predina
LB - Evan Boyd (Lost Bischof, Paglio, and Harper. Harper was a hybrid LB/S)
LB - ? (an underclassman to look out for is Burkholder. Good athlete in baseball and football. Was a freshman last year and saw some plays on the kickoff team and made some nice hits. I think he'll start at LB as a sophomore).
LB - ?
DB - Noah Gladish (started as a sophomore and missed all of last season with I believe a torn ACL. It'll be nice to have him back)
DB - ? (Eric Martemus started several games as a junior and rotated with Oddo)
DB - ? (Lost Toth, Fourqurean, Oddo, and Bertolami to graduation)
DB - ?

P - Sterio graduated
K - Andrew Smith is back
LS - Floyd graduated
 
Dumb question: why would McKinley pass up Harding in favor of Mentor? Isn't that a rivalry game?

Also, it seems to me some of these schools being picked on do have Titles to their Resume'. I again use Pups as an example. Three, in fact.

At any rate, I have always subscribed non-conference prepares for conference and one hopes conference is uber-competitive to prepare for postseason. Finally, who cares if you have to play someone twice? I actually embrace it.
 
Nobody said to pass on Harding or Massillon for Mentor. They have 4 OOC games and those are only 2 of them They'll schedule a team like Euclid or Buchtel or a DC public etc over Mentor now though. If Mentor goes down a peg or two I'm sure they'll be more receptive though. They had no issue playing us at their height when we were way down

I also don't see how state titles from 22 or more years ago have any relevance to a current discussion. We played them though while they were winning a few of those and we mostly missed the playoffs. They won't play us when we are contending and they are still a 3-5 seed type team in region 1
 
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The biggest X-factor in 2020 will be at wide receiver. The QB and offensive line are good enough. I actually think the defense will be just as good as last year, which is good enough. I even have a bit of confidence in Coughlin to be a good enough back to help Mentor contend for the region. But wide receiver is a HUGE question mark. Last year we saw Floriea put together one of the better individual seasons in the Triv-era. But with Floriea gone and very little experience behind him, my expectations range between very little and none. I am not aware of any ultra talented freshman/sophomores from last season that are potentially ready for huge jumps in 2020. Obviously Mentor will not have a talent anywhere near as good as Floriea, but hopefully Kipp can have a steady group of 3-4 consistent receivers that are all capable targets.

As great as Trubisky was, his receivers made him look even better. If Kipp would be throwing to Fritts, Krizancic, and Daugherty this season - I would say Mentor has every reason to believe they could win the state title. The receiving talent in 2003, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2017 were top notch. The 2020 group won't be at those levels, but hopefully the coaching staff can develop a solid group.
 
With all of the league talk surrounding the GCC, I wonder if Mentor's best bet to have some league stability is to explore some creative solutions.

1) Join the WRC in all sports but football. I know the WRC and Mentor is a terrible fit in football, but the rest of the sports aren't bad. Mentor would be consistently in the top three in just about any sport, but they wouldn't always win the league in sports like wrestling, baseball, volleyball, or girls basketball. Even boys basketball won't dominate in the post-Krizancic era. What's in it for the WRC? Not much, but it doesn't hurt to try.

2) Join the LEL. If the LEL was interested in expanding to a two-tier league, I think Mentor and the league could find some mutual interest. The LEL is already going to 8 teams. Brush is looking to get out. The NCL has fallen apart. Mentor, Euclid, and Solon are big Eastside schools that need eachother right now. What if those four join the LEL in a two division format?

Two division format in football could look like this:

Lake: Cleveland Heights, Shaker, Lorain, Mentor, Solon, and Euclid
Erie: Garfield, Brush, Bedford, Warrensville, Shaw, and Maple

Two six team divisions. Crossovers are optional. Heights, Shaker, and Lorain would certainly take advantage. In fact, they could each do two crossovers. It would give 9 teams a seven game league schedule. 5 in division, 2 in crossover. Mentor, Solon, and Euclid could agree to no crossovers. Doesn't do either side any good. Those three schools have 5 league games (which is what they will have in 2021 anyway) and will have to do their best to fill Weeks 4 and 5, which are challenging.

In boys basketball, you could do two divisions (10 league games), round robin (11 games), or division plus crossover (16 league games). A round robin with a league tournament (giving everyone two or three additional league games) is another possibility I would explore under this setup. The Federal League used to do round robin plus end of season tournament. Would be lots of fun.
 
cardzfan1234 said:
With all of the league talk surrounding the GCC, I wonder if Mentor's best bet to have some league stability is to explore some creative solutions.

1) Join the WRC in all sports but football. I know the WRC and Mentor is a terrible fit in football, but the rest of the sports aren't bad. Mentor would be consistently in the top three in just about any sport, but they wouldn't always win the league in sports like wrestling, baseball, volleyball, or girls basketball. Even boys basketball won't dominate in the post-Krizancic era. What's in it for the WRC? Not much, but it doesn't hurt to try.

2) Join the LEL. If the LEL was interested in expanding to a two-tier league, I think Mentor and the league could find some mutual interest. The LEL is already going to 8 teams. Brush is looking to get out. The NCL has fallen apart. Mentor, Euclid, and Solon are big Eastside schools that need eachother right now. What if those four join the LEL in a two division format?

Two division format in football could look like this:

Lake: Cleveland Heights, Shaker, Lorain, Mentor, Solon, and Euclid
Erie: Garfield, Brush, Bedford, Warrensville, Shaw, and Maple

Two six team divisions. Crossovers are optional. Heights, Shaker, and Lorain would certainly take advantage. In fact, they could each do two crossovers. It would give 9 teams a seven game league schedule. 5 in division, 2 in crossover. Mentor, Solon, and Euclid could agree to no crossovers. Doesn't do either side any good. Those three schools have 5 league games (which is what they will have in 2021 anyway) and will have to do their best to fill Weeks 4 and 5, which are challenging.

In boys basketball, you could do two divisions (10 league games), round robin (11 games), or division plus crossover (16 league games). A round robin with a league tournament (giving everyone two or three additional league games) is another possibility I would explore under this setup. The Federal League used to do round robin plus end of season tournament. Would be lots of fun.
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Your suggested LEL alignment actually makes a lot of sense. Much better travel for Mentor than the GCC. Some decent crossover games available, especially for basketball. Although, I would make a case for Bedford, Solon, Euclid, or even Maple to make a jump for the WRC to a solid league of eight schools if Brush were to leave and provide an opening.
 
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MentorGrad2002 said:
Any public school worth a damn that will play us.

Its ridiculous that Mentor has to play a team from Canada and St Eds because of all these public schools who won't play us. We have to schedule like a private school while being a clean program that runs like high school teams were meant to be run One school district that doesn't recruit or build all star teams from many counties
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Avon needs a Week 2 in 2021 and 2022. Have your AD give them a call. The one-off didn't work out for Week 1 2018, but this could be a home and home...unless the Mentor vs St I deal extends to Week 2 in 2021.
 
cjb56 said:
Avon needs a Week 2 in 2021 and 2022. Have your AD give them a call. The one-off didn't work out for Week 1 2018, but this could be a home and home...unless the Mentor vs St I deal extends to Week 2 in 2021.
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At this point, I imagine that St Ignatius could be pretty flexible in 2021 and especially 2022. As things stand, Mentor will only have 5 league games in 2021. St Eds is listed in Week 1 in Arbiter. St Ignatius will be on the schedule, but it could be moved to any week that is available in Weeks 2-5. A home and home with Avon in Week 2 would be great for both programs. Considering Mentor's new coach is an Avon graduate, I think this is a no-brainer. I would be pretty surprised if they don't work something out. If Avon remains at the level they have been for the last ten years, I think those games are much closer to 50/50 than outsiders would assume. The only way I give Mentor a clear advantage is if they have great QB play. I haven't heard or noticed any promising current 8th, 9th, or 10th graders ready to step up in the post-Kipp era.

For the last twenty or so seasons, Mentor has good QB play in all but one (2009). In at least half of those seasons, it wasn't just good QB play - it was elite QB play. How will Mentor do without that kind of talent behind center?.That remains to be seen.
 
cardzfan1234 said:
At this point, I imagine that St Ignatius could be pretty flexible in 2021 and especially 2022. As things stand, Mentor will only have 5 league games in 2021. St Eds is listed in Week 1 in Arbiter. St Ignatius will be on the schedule, but it could be moved to any week that is available in Weeks 2-5. A home and home with Avon in Week 2 would be great for both programs. Considering Mentor's new coach is an Avon graduate, I think this is a no-brainer. I would be pretty surprised if they don't work something out. If Avon remains at the level they have been for the last ten years, I think those games are much closer to 50/50 than outsiders would assume. The only way I give Mentor a clear advantage is if they have great QB play. I haven't heard or noticed any promising current 8th, 9th, or 10th graders ready to step up in the post-Kipp era.

For the last twenty or so seasons, Mentor has good QB play in all but one (2009). In at least half of those seasons, it wasn't just good QB play - it was elite QB play. How will Mentor do without that kind of talent behind center?.That remains to be seen.
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All that you say is true, and I know Avon's AD is aware Mentor always needs games. The St I deal could be set in stone for Week 2, though, so who knows?
 
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