Lima Shawnee v. Akron St. Vincent-St. Mary

Who will win?

  • St. Vincent-St. Mary by a lot

    Votes: 32 43.8%
  • St. Vincent-St. Mary in a close one

    Votes: 16 21.9%
  • Shawnee by a lot

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Shawnee in a close one

    Votes: 25 34.2%

  • Total voters
    73

Massillon#82

Well-known member
After watching Branham in two games in Dayton and a couple in his soph season I have to wonder if he can play for Ohio State. at 6-5 he would have to shoot the ball or rebound and he did neither this past weekend. Someone see anything different? I admit I saw two games this season but it was the biggest stage.
Good observation because a kid that has enough talent to get a full ride to Ohio St for basketball certainly won’t improve at all. 🤦🏻‍♂️
 

Irish60

Well-known member
After watching Branham in two games in Dayton and a couple in his soph season I have to wonder if he can play for Ohio State. at 6-5 he would have to shoot the ball or rebound and he did neither this past weekend. Someone see anything different? I admit I saw two games this season but it was the biggest stage.
A 6'5" athlete who can drive and distribute the ball. A guy who gives as much effort on the defensive side of the ball as he does on offense. A hard worker who has dramatically improved his mid-range game during his tenure at STVM. Yeah, I think he can play for the Buckeyes. He's a hard working young man who continues to work to develop and improve his game. Yeah, I see something different.
 

spirit454

Well-known member
That's an excuse and losing mindset however I understand you're the ladder of what I said in my previous post. Life is not fair should you stop living?
Not at all. Most schools have no chance to win a state championship so should they never play? Set realistic goals and adjust as success comes to you. The ST V goal is to win a state title and they take steps, fair and unfair, to guarantee that chance. Place Joyce in charge at Kenton high school and nobody would know his name. Give him an AAU program competing with your local high school and we get the same result each year. And I will continue, is my guess.
 

spirit454

Well-known member
A 6'5" athlete who can drive and distribute the ball. A guy who gives as much effort on the defensive side of the ball as he does on offense. A hard worker who has dramatically improved his mid-range game during his tenure at STVM. Yeah, I think he can play for the Buckeyes. He's a hard working young man who continues to work to develop and improve his game. Yeah, I see something different.
I was not trying to knock the kid even though it came out that way. I was judging him as he played at the high school level and wondered what he bring to the college level. 6'5 hs athletes are everywhere. I think he had 2-3 steals in two games so he defense did not excite me. I have no connection to him so I am unbiased and just asking. I was hoping for a better 3 point shot or a lock down defender that can clear a rebound or two in traffic.
 

spirit454

Well-known member
The problem with this is that there are a lot more schools getting lumped into a theoretical private school division than the dozen or so schools located in and around the bigger cities that people take issue with. This doesn't actually fix the problem, it just puts the weight of the problem entirely on the shoulders of the other privates that aren't recruiting 4-5 counties or that have legitimate smaller enrollments from fairly well-defined areas.

If this was the OHSAA's real solution to this problem, if I was a small D4 school like Springfield Catholic Central that has a ton of basketball tradition I would start openly recruiting my county and multiple neighboring counties for the 2-3 best basketball players I can get in every class because the state association has decided to punish me solely for being private because their incompetence has gotten in the way of them solving a problem that revolves around maybe a dozen schools. There's no reason to accept getting boat raced by all of the stacked teams if you're wrongly slammed into competing against them. In that scenario, you may as well embrace trying to become one of them, which only exacerbates the problem of recruiting and effortful attraction of high-end talent.
I like the CB formula as a start. After the numbers have been added, if you have a CB number of 30+, I saw you need to jump another division. This will also benefit the smaller current D1 schools that never compete. The range of enrollment in D1 from top to bottom is huge.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I like the CB formula as a start. After the numbers have been added, if you have a CB number of 30+, I saw you need to jump another division. This will also benefit the smaller current D1 schools that never compete. The range of enrollment in D1 from top to bottom is huge.
I'm not sure what the answer is. If the CB model continues, either the CB number added per kid needs to be much greater than it currently is or once past a certain CB value you need to automatically be bumped up a division. This is a problem that probably has no good solution, although as you mentioned, a better solution could possibly help out some of the borderline D1 schools like Franklin that have enormous enrollment disparities with the larger D1 public and private schools.
 

Irish60

Well-known member
I was not trying to knock the kid even though it came out that way. I was judging him as he played at the high school level and wondered what he bring to the college level. 6'5 hs athletes are everywhere. I think he had 2-3 steals in two games so he defense did not excite me. I have no connection to him so I am unbiased and just asking. I was hoping for a better 3 point shot or a lock down defender that can clear a rebound or two in traffic.
I get it. Look, all I can say is he is a hard working kid and he will have an excellent coach at Ohio State. That, combined with his natural talent, is a pretty good recipe for success. Only time will tell!
 

Tesoro

Well-known member
Not at all. Most schools have no chance to win a state championship so should they never play? Set realistic goals and adjust as success comes to you. The ST V goal is to win a state title and they take steps, fair and unfair, to guarantee that chance. Place Joyce in charge at Kenton high school and nobody would know his name. Give him an AAU program competing with your local high school and we get the same result each year. And I will continue, is my guess.
Mostly unfair. Some schools have integrity. Most don.t
 

Zezzo!

Well-known member
Not at all. Most schools have no chance to win a state championship so should they never play? Set realistic goals and adjust as success comes to you. The ST V goal is to win a state title and they take steps, fair and unfair, to guarantee that chance. Place Joyce in charge at Kenton high school and nobody would know his name. Give him an AAU program competing with your local high school and we get the same result each year. And I will continue, is my guess.
................................?!?!
 
I like the CB formula as a start. After the numbers have been added, if you have a CB number of 30+, I saw you need to jump another division. This will also benefit the smaller current D1 schools that never compete. The range of enrollment in D1 from top to bottom is huge.
Why not keep the current structure and add an "open" division? Schools can enter their assigned tournament or opt in to the Open Division. A school like SVSM or Lutheran East could claim bragging rights as the Open Division Champion instead of dominating the lower divisions.
 

Irish60

Well-known member
Why not keep the current structure and add an "open" division? Schools can enter their assigned tournament or opt in to the Open Division. A school like SVSM or Lutheran East could claim bragging rights as the Open Division Champion instead of dominating the lower divisions.
The problem with an Open Division is that a lot of teams wouldn't opt for it. And I mean a lot of D1 teams. You could certainly see the benefit to STVM opting for such a division. But I could also see teams like St. Ignatius or Mentor or Moeller or any number of them saying they are fine at D1 and see no reason to opt out of it.
 
The problem with an Open Division is that a lot of teams wouldn't opt for it. And I mean a lot of D1 teams. You could certainly see the benefit to STVM opting for such a division. But I could also see teams like St. Ignatius or Mentor or Moeller or any number of them saying they are fine at D1 and see no reason to opt out of it.
I'm sure a lot of teams won't. That's okay...everyone will know who's not afraid to play the best competition.

If a school is advertising itself as the place to be if you want to be among the very best...seems like they'd want to prove it on the court/field.
 

Gbulldog

Active member
I'm sure a lot of teams won't. That's okay...everyone will know who's not afraid to play the best competition.

If a school is advertising itself as the place to be if you want to be among the very best...seems like they'd want to prove it on the court/field.
I don't see an appetite for this. I feel there's some teams that have a great 3-4 year runs but can reload year after year like a select few can
 

spirit454

Well-known member
Why not keep the current structure and add an "open" division? Schools can enter their assigned tournament or opt in to the Open Division. A school like SVSM or Lutheran East could claim bragging rights as the Open Division Champion instead of dominating the lower divisions.
Adding another division like football could handle that also. It could be made of all the very larges but also allow schools to play more their size and if a public or private school as a CB number higher than 25, you bump up.
 
Adding another division like football could handle that also. It could be made of all the very larges but also allow schools to play more their size and if a public or private school as a CB number higher than 25, you bump up.
OHSAA could relax the rules about playing out-of-state tournaments and playing on the same AAU team for schools that opt in. Let them accept transfers without having to sit out. Embrace the "AAU culture" instead of trying to reign it in and let 95% of the schools in the state compete on an even playing field while the big dogs get to play each other on the biggest stage in Ohio HS basketball instead of a Saturday night non-league game or holiday tournament.

Allow teams to declare their intent for the following year after the state tournament ends, and maybe let them opt out of the open division at the start of the school year if they didn't violate any of the existing rules re: AAU.

Perhaps a team like Toledo Rogers - who lost two kids to prep schools out-of-state - would have a chance to keep those kids at home if they could play high profile competition during the regular season? I have to think it would be better for most kids to stay home instead of moving to Kansas or Florida and away from friends and family in order to "get exposure."
 

1 time

Active member
Adding another division like football could handle that also. It could be made of all the very larges but also allow schools to play more their size and if a public or private school as a CB number higher than 25, you bump up.
Add another division Put 75 largest schools in big division. Split the other 4 divisions equally. Probably not going to change who wins each division, but gives many more teams a chance to at least make the regionals. That’s quite an accomplishment for many schools who rarely get this chance.
 

ShoelessJoe

Active member
Delphos St John??? What are you talking about? You must not live anywhere near Delphos to float a claim like that.... lol
I was not saying DSJ does anything like that. I was just using them as a made up example to show how unfair it is to smaller community schools. Could have used any school in NW Ohio. I do live in NW Ohio. Sorry if I hit a nerve with you.
 

StarstoShine

Well-known member
The Akron Area is loaded with talent. Three players transfered one to Mckinkey one to Buchtel one TO Lorain (WVA commit)
Other like 6-7 Vern Smith (Buchtel McKinley) 6-7 Chris Livingston (Buchtel-WRA)
Marcel Boyce (Buchtel) didn’t choose to attend STVM. The top Akron area frosh 6-3 Jonah Nichols choose Hoban. If all this local talent choose the Irish yearly state titles would be nearly automatic. Bottom line the Akron area is producing talent but let’s give credit to coach Dru Joyce and his players for putting in he disciplined work to win titles. STVM does not get every blue chipper but the expectation within the program requires commitment with the goal of playing as a team which leads to victories and occasional titles. At STVM they hang banners but the commitment and sacrifice has to fall within the players work ethic and ego.
 

tucson

Active member
Ultimately it got them nothing unless you're happy with one semi-final appearance!
Well it depends what you're in it for championships or appearances in the Shawnee community I understand just getting there is your championship.
I get it, it's an accomplishment nevertheless and it's not silly it's a fact!
So is it an accomplishment or is it nothing? What's your point and what exactly are you trying to say? Seems like a lot of hot air to me.
 
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