Leipsic Leaving BVC

blue12

New member
I have been reading forums for many years. Just reading between the lines, I would be fearful if I were Liberty Benton. Schools may play them year in and out, but they get tired of working so hard to no avail more than often.
Why would the NWC add a school that is bigger than all the others and worry about upsetting other traditions of winning. Take a reminder of LCC, A great add for competition that ran its course and They were actually voted out to preserve the League.
 

jafo

Active member
If Liberty wants or needs to leave the BVC they should look at a league with schools their size or bigger. Also, may have to travel a bit more.
 

cknights

Active member
Liberty Benton is the cash cow of the BVC. They are a founding member and outstanding in athletics. After the Leipsic departure, I would venture to say that if Liberty Benton left as well, then the BVC would be on the verge of complete collapse. Two strong members that provide good gate money with one of them (Liberty Benton) being the biggest money maker in your conference. Not sure the BVC could survive or at least remain business as usual unless there was a school or two with a lot of value added attributes who replaced them.
 

BGSUGrad

New member
I still don’t get the move, if the main cause is that LB wins most of the league titles, then get better. The MAC ranges from D5-7 and no one there complains. Further more, I fail to see how football is an issue:
BVC school in the playoffs
19 - 4 teams including Leipsic
18 - 3 teams including Leipsic and O by the way the D7 state champ (side note VB was D5 and LB was D6)
17- 4 teams including Leipsic
16- 3 teams including Leipsic
15- 4 teams including Leipsic
So playing and or losing to LB doesn’t stop you from making the playoffs nor does playing Vanlue, so what really gives?
 

BirdDog10

Active member
I still don’t get the move, if the main cause is that LB wins most of the league titles, then get better. The MAC ranges from D5-7 and no one there complains. Further more, I fail to see how football is an issue:
BVC school in the playoffs
19 - 4 teams including Leipsic
18 - 3 teams including Leipsic and O by the way the D7 state champ (side note VB was D5 and LB was D6)
17- 4 teams including Leipsic
16- 3 teams including Leipsic
15- 4 teams including Leipsic
So playing and or losing to LB doesn’t stop you from making the playoffs nor does playing Vanlue, so what really gives?
Leipsic wants stability, more consistent competition, and better facilities. Yes, the BVC has LB, McComb, Arlington, plus Riverdale and Van Buren will have a good football year every so often and be competitive, but the competition drops off pretty dang fast after that. NWC teams on average travel much better than the BVC, and with the acception of LB, the NWC from top to bottom has better facilities for almost every sport. There's at least 3, possibly 4 teams that likely to either be playing 8 man or not even have a team in the next few years. The jump to the NWC provides a more stable future, especially with the possibility of the NWC adding a couple more teams in the next year or two.
 

BGSUGrad

New member
Leipsic wants stability, more consistent competition, and better facilities. Yes, the BVC has LB, McComb, Arlington, plus Riverdale and Van Buren will have a good football year every so often and be competitive, but the competition drops off pretty dang fast after that. NWC teams on average travel much better than the BVC, and with the acception of LB, the NWC from top to bottom has better facilities for almost every sport. There's at least 3, possibly 4 teams that likely to either be playing 8 man or not even have a team in the next few years. The jump to the NWC provides a more stable future, especially with the possibility of the NWC adding a couple more teams in the next year or two.
Totally agree that the NWC has better teams top to bottom, the bottom of the BVC is pretty weak. But if you are Leipsic would you rather go 8-2 with a playoff game or 6-4, but hey you made a couple extra thousand bucks in ticket sales? Leipsic was playing for a regional championship last season and the season before the BVC produced the D7 state champ.
Plus who is to say that the NWC fans are gonna be pumped about another game in Putnam county, it’s and extra 30 minutes past Grove and once you have been to Leipsic once, not a lot of reasons to come back again.
Last note, yes Vanlue should drop to 8 man, but Arcadia has ok numbers for a small school and CR would benefit greatly from dropping boys soccer. They were making the playoffs a dozen years ago.
 

RollingTrain

Active member
Totally agree that the NWC has better teams top to bottom, the bottom of the BVC is pretty weak. But if you are Leipsic would you rather go 8-2 with a playoff game or 6-4, but hey you made a couple extra thousand bucks in ticket sales? Leipsic was playing for a regional championship last season and the season before the BVC produced the D7 state champ.
Plus who is to say that the NWC fans are gonna be pumped about another game in Putnam county, it’s and extra 30 minutes past Grove and once you have been to Leipsic once, not a lot of reasons to come back again.
Last note, yes Vanlue should drop to 8 man, but Arcadia has ok numbers for a small school and CR would benefit greatly from dropping boys soccer. They were making the playoffs a dozen years ago.
Well, Leipsic must see the writing on the wall. They went for stability for facing years of "what-ifs" and turmoil and I don't blame them. All of the sudden scheduling becomes an issue - look at the SBC River right now. They had two schools go 8-man and it's a scheduling nightmare and hard feelings among league members. The NWC enrollments are large enough that I don't see any of the above being an issue.

I don't think L-B has ever wanted to seek a league with larger enrollments. I think they've been perfectly content being the big fish. In today's softer world I'm not sure that's going to continue to be possible.
 

CC Track Fan

Active member
BVC president Jeremy Herr -“I’m not going to lie, it was a shock,” Herr said. “We just had a meeting roughly a week ago (one of three held each school year by league officials) and nothing was brought up in that meeting by Leipsic.”
How out of touch must this guy have been to not see this as a possibility. A similar sized conference had an opening that was right next to some of your schools how could you not think one of them might leave. When you have a conference with lots of changes lately and a large enrollment differences.

While it was a known fact the NWC was open to the idea of adding an eighth football team, it is apparent Leipsic was not its only target.
“The only reason I know other schools were contacted by the Northwest Conference is because we were one of them,” said Herr, who in addition to being BVC president is the girls basketball coach at McComb.
Well McComb was one of the other schools NWC targeted.
 

cknights

Active member
Well McComb was one of the other schools NWC targeted.
Not only targeted but a potential suitor for the future. Don't be surprised if McComb heads to the NWC in the future. Herr may have some allegiance to the BVC in the short term being the president, but McComb just lost one of its bigger rivals to another conference, which is stable enough to add them in time.
 

RollingTrain

Active member
How out of touch must this guy have been to not see this as a possibility. A similar sized conference had an opening that was right next to some of your schools how could you not think one of them might leave. When you have a conference with lots of changes lately and a large enrollment differences.



Well McComb was one of the other schools NWC targeted.

HA! Leipsic's AD said earlier they've been looking for the last three years or so and the BVC President (and rival neighbor of McComb) says he's shocked and didn't see it coming. I'd say it's time to find a new President. Seems to me like the BVC has sat on their hands knowing there were serious issues with 30%-40% of their membership and football numbers. Add in the fact that 8-man is a real possibility for some of his members and it's mind boggling he could be shocked.

Best guess is the NWC is looking to maybe do a North/South type of league with two divisions.
 

BGSUGrad

New member
Stable seems like a relative term, the NWC had an opening because someone left. Leipsic is leaving a conference they have been in since 1965. The BVC has not had a league member cancel a game since HN in the early 2000’s.
I would love to hear a more specific reason for the departure from Leipsic’s administration, I doubt that will happen.
Options:
Money - more at the gate in the new league, but more spent on travel
Competition - NWC does several sports better then the BVC, but not all. Plus Leipsic doesn’t sponsor wrestling or girls soccer
Size based off 2020 adjusted football enrollment
NWC
Bluffton 149
Jefferson 148
AE 136
CG 128
Ada 121
Spencerville 116
Crestview 97.
Leipsic 75.

BVC
LB 199
VB 150
Riverdale 134
McComb 95
NB 85
Arlington 79
Leipsic 75
Arcadia 74
CR 69
PG 65
Vanlue 37
How many schools have left a conference to become the smallest member of a new conference?
At the end of the day Leipsic felt that the BVC did them dirty in some way, I just can’t figure out which way
 

BirdDog10

Active member
Totally agree that the NWC has better teams top to bottom, the bottom of the BVC is pretty weak. But if you are Leipsic would you rather go 8-2 with a playoff game or 6-4, but hey you made a couple extra thousand bucks in ticket sales? Leipsic was playing for a regional championship last season and the season before the BVC produced the D7 state champ.
Plus who is to say that the NWC fans are gonna be pumped about another game in Putnam county, it’s and extra 30 minutes past Grove and once you have been to Leipsic once, not a lot of reasons to come back again.
Last note, yes Vanlue should drop to 8 man, but Arcadia has ok numbers for a small school and CR would benefit greatly from dropping boys soccer. They were making the playoffs a dozen years ago.
I think Leipsic's decision had less to do with winning and more to do with the possibility of 3-4 members of their former league dropping into 8 man. Add on the fact that other than the occasional year where one conference school is down, the NWC will play an entire JV schedule for football and basketball. That means a lot to coaches voicing their opinions in the decision. No scrambling to find a JV opponent week to week, no playing only 2 quarters of JV basketball, I imagine that would all be pretty appealing to a school that has consistently good participation for all of their sports. And not just in football and basketball, but in every sport, Leipsic will be very competitive in the NWC.
 

cknights

Active member
Stable seems like a relative term, the NWC had an opening because someone left. Leipsic is leaving a conference they have been in since 1965. The BVC has not had a league member cancel a game since HN in the early 2000’s.
I would love to hear a more specific reason for the departure from Leipsic’s administration, I doubt that will happen.
Options:
Money - more at the gate in the new league, but more spent on travel
Competition - NWC does several sports better then the BVC, but not all. Plus Leipsic doesn’t sponsor wrestling or girls soccer
Size based off 2020 adjusted football enrollment
NWC
Bluffton 149 LB 199
Jefferson 148 VB 150
AE 136 Riverdale 134
CG 128 McComb 95
Ada 121 NB 85
Spencerville 116 Arlington 79
Crestview 97. Arcadia 74
Leipsic 75. Leipsic 75
CR 69
PG 65
Vanlue 37
How many schools have left a conference to become the smallest member of a new conference?
At the end of the day Leipsic felt that the BVC did them dirty in some way, I just can’t figure out which way
You may be right. It could be from them feeling like they were done dirty. Leipsic pointed out the large swing in enrollment numbers at their BVC member schools as a problem. They also said "this isn't 1970 anymore", meaning that they see the writing on the wall. The BVC has a model that isn't sustainable for the future. The NWC has a far more secure model in their eye (AD's words, not mine). Member schools have solid Jr. High and JV programs. This is a major problem in the BVC.

That said, I'm not sure, outside of Liberty Benton, that the competition level is quite the same across sports in the BVC compared to the NWC. I also think that Leipsic pointed to Bluffton, Grove, Allen East, etc. as current common opponents, so travel is not an issue. And at the end of the day, I think money talks. Ticket sales are a large revenue point for athletic departments. NWC fans travel.
 

dhsdog06

Active member
Defiance
Napoleon
Bryan
Wauseon
Bowling Green
Maumee
LB
OG

It won't happen, but that would be a solid league. Although the trip from Liberty to Bryan is a bit of a haul.
 

jafo

Active member
Good news: BVC is "open to possible future growth."

Bad news: Nobody wanted to join the BVC when it was stable.
 

BGSUGrad

New member
From an AD’s point of view I can see why having a full junior high and JV schedule is appealing. BUT is the community really excited for a full JV football schedule(was this actually not happening or theoretically it might not happen?) and junior high girls track meets? Or would they like to play “local” schools and make playoff appearances in football?
Because you went from (2 closest) 15 minute drive to McComb and Pandora to a 25 minute trip to Bluffton and a 30 minute drive to CG
 

BGSUGrad

New member
Good news: BVC is "open to possible future growth."

Bad news: Nobody wanted to join the BVC when it was stable.
Ada wanted is a few years back, perhaps they still do? Or they might be happy to not have to make the drive to Paulding? Also depending on how hurt HN’s feelings are, they might be game?
 

cknights

Active member
Ada wanted is a few years back, perhaps they still do? Or they might be happy to not have to make the drive to Paulding? Also depending on how hurt HN’s feelings are, they might be game?
BVC screwed up by not accepting Ada in my opinion. It would have given another concrete member. Now that Leipsic jumped ship, it would be hard to fathom Ada jumping to the BVC. And I'm sure Ada isn't jumping at the chance to go there after being turned down.

As per the Leipsic AD's radio interview, he said that a full JV and Jr High schedule was very important to them for the development of their athletes. The BVC is not providing that culture. I'm sure that this will provide opportunity for McComb and PG to fill their schedules with Leipsic as an OOC opponent. However, one has to wonder how much longer they will hang in there with Leipsic leaving and providing an even bigger void to Jr. High and JV scheduling.
 

adog

Active member
Ada wanted is a few years back, perhaps they still do? Or they might be happy to not have to make the drive to Paulding? Also depending on how hurt HN’s feelings are, they might be game?
I am not so sure it was "Ada" that wanted to get into the BVC, but more so a certain administrator who really campaigned for it and pushed. Glad he is gone as I think most Ada fans feel at home with the schools in the NWC.
 

BGSUGrad

New member
BVC screwed up by not accepting Ada in my opinion. It would have given another concrete member. Now that Leipsic jumped ship, it would be hard to fathom Ada jumping to the BVC. And I'm sure Ada isn't jumping at the chance to go there after being turned down.

As per the Leipsic AD's radio interview, he said that a full JV and Jr High schedule was very important to them for the development of their athletes. The BVC is not providing that culture. I'm sure that this will provide opportunity for McComb and PG to fill their schedules with Leipsic as an OOC opponent. However, one has to wonder how much longer they will hang in there with Leipsic leaving and providing an even bigger void to Jr. High and JV scheduling.
I am sure that is exactly what the AD from Leipsic was thinking. On the surface it makes sense, but I just can’t wrap my mind around swapping less travel and long standing league membership for a few more Jr high and JV games. There have been a handful of not just good, but state championship teams in several sports from the BVC, those lack of games did not stop them.
 

bob22

Well-known member
Even though I kind of like the list LetsGoBig gave, I cant see Ada/Bluffton/Columbus Grove breaking the ties they have had over the many years with likes of Spencerville, Delphos Jefferson and especially neighbors, Allen East.
Switch Allen East for PH and ditch PG.
 

cknights

Active member
I am sure that is exactly what the AD from Leipsic was thinking. On the surface it makes sense, but I just can’t wrap my mind around swapping less travel and long standing league membership for a few more Jr high and JV games. There have been a handful of not just good, but state championship teams in several sports from the BVC, those lack of games did not stop them.
Money. Ticket money to any junior high or jv game speaks volumes, makes up for travel time/expense, and provides stability to the program. It also provides stability for future classes to get proper training. Scheduling is a nightmare for any AD. If a conference provides that stability, guaranteed money and games to junior high, JV, and women’s sports, and allows for bigger gate sales to varsity boys, then it’s really a no brainer. Combine that with animosity towards the small schools for not fielding teams (Vanlue) and big schools dominating (Liberty Benton), and I can see a definitive set of standards in which Leipsic wants to leave. In addition, Leipsic can now make rivals their OOC games. It’s a win/win for them. All of that said. I’m still sold that there’s more to it and more teams will consider and/or leave in the next year or so.
 

scbuckeye99

Active member
Money. Ticket money to any junior high or jv game speaks volumes, makes up for travel time/expense, and provides stability to the program. It also provides stability for future classes to get proper training. Scheduling is a nightmare for any AD. If a conference provides that stability, guaranteed money and games to junior high, JV, and women’s sports, and allows for bigger gate sales to varsity boys, then it’s really a no brainer. Combine that with animosity towards the small schools for not fielding teams (Vanlue) and big schools dominating (Liberty Benton), and I can see a definitive set of standards in which Leipsic wants to leave. In addition, Leipsic can now make rivals their OOC games. It’s a win/win for them. All of that said. I’m still sold that there’s more to it and more teams will consider and/or leave in the next year or so.
You touched on some really important points from the business side of interscholastic athletics and building an athletic program. All your points are certainly some of the reasons the private schools along with whitmer and clay bolted from the TCAL during the "collapse" of TPS athletics during the 08/09 recession. TPS was forced to eliminate junior high athletics along with I believe every "olympic" sport. Staying would've been a nightmare for SJJ, SFS and others when it came to those scheduling at all levels.

When Lima Senior was an independent during those years in between the GMC and the GBC (pre-TRAC) scheduling for varsity was definitely a hassle but probably no where near the struggle of scheduling JV/9th and middle school sports. Although at those levels I'm confident they were scheduling local WBL and NWC competition.

Having a stable conference where all or the vast majority of league members sponsor the same sports is huge for those athletes in sports like wrestling, xc, track, swimming, etc....they get to look forward to events like a conference of league tournament and earning the honors that come along with those events.

Having a conference with ideally 8-10 members who sponsor the same sports is something I believe every AD dreams of. Makes life a whole heck of a lot easier for them.
 

Salesman

Active member
Defiance
Napoleon
Bryan
Wauseon
Bowling Green
Maumee
LB
OG

It won't happen, but that would be a solid league. Although the trip from Liberty to Bryan is a bit of a haul.
Liberty Benton would not be able to compete on a regular basis with the above mentioned teams.
 
The problem is Vanlue, Cory and maybe Arcadia going 8 man. Plus Liberty Benton is just to big.They get bigger every year and they get a lot of open enrollment also. The others BVC teams can't compete ever year with them. LB love where their at being the big dog. I know the last couple of year Woodmore and Elmwood keep talking about leaving the NBC. LB has been invite a couple of times, but turns it down. They don't want to play Genoa, Eastwood, Rossford, Lake or Otsego every year. We seen how bad Eastwood made them look last year in the playoffs. The NBC would be a great fit for them size wise. They could bring Van Buren with them to the NBC. Make 10 team or 8 if Woodmore and Elmwood leave. Their longest drive would be 53 minutes to Genoa.
 

Fireman878

New member
LB definitely needs to go to a bigger league. The NBC would be a good fit for them but like you said cometrules they don’t want to get beat those schools . I don’t think my high school Elmwood should go anywhere they compete on every sport besides football
 
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