JV Team a Dying Tradition ?

Beaver2000 said:
I do the same thing and my son is 7 and playing coach pitch! :ROFLMAO:
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You're lucky. I literally tried to hide and stay low-key after sign ups and STILL got suckered(guilted) into coaching! Im like man, how many hints I had to drop? I wanna chill and watch too!
 
Yappi said:
I'm not looking at it that way. The point I was trying to make is that these kids are good. They are actually very good. They work on their game and should easily make a HS team in the particular sport. If a school fails to provide a JV team for qualified players, then that is a failure of the school system. If the school has an excellent sport in a community that is blessed with tremendous depth, that school should be providing at least three teams in that sport.

I look at what Jackson has done in the past. They are arguably one of the best baseball schools in Ohio. I believe they've had two Varsities, two JVs and a Freshmen team. They have enough talent and have provided an outlet for all these kids. In no way could I defend Jackson having only a varsity and JV and cutting kids who could have been varsity starters at a majority of the schools in the state. If you have enough talent, you should have enough teams.

Again, not saying money spent on travel ball earns varsity playing time. What I am saying is that if you have enough qualified talent in your school, only having two teams is a travesty.
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I think it is a multi-faceted effect of travel ball's lack of inclusivity, rise of Lacrosse, specialization and MLB's downward spiral in popularity. If most kids, didn't play travel early on, they will not bother picking it up later. I coach youth football in a suburban area, out of 30ish kids, only 4 are playing baseball this spring. That's including rec and travel. I think OSHAA can help some in the interim by increasing roster limits and maximum games played.
 
playboi12 said:
I think it is a multi-faceted effect of travel ball's lack of inclusivity, rise of Lacrosse, specialization and MLB's downward spiral in popularity. If most kids, didn't play travel early on, they will not bother picking it up later. I coach youth football in a suburban area, out of 30ish kids, only 4 are playing baseball this spring. That's including rec and travel. I think OSHAA can help some in the interim by increasing roster limits and maximum games played.
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Great post. The bolded portion especially. A group of white middle class dads decide what 12 kids (mostly theirs) will play baseball in a community at age 7 or 8. Not good.
 
14Red said:
If a baseball player can't pitch one inning without being harmed long term, they need to go run track or play soccer. Good heavens it's time to stop the pitch count madness. We have a bunch of major league pitchers who can't throw more than 5 inings because they are coddled from the time they are 10 years old. If you pitch, you MAY hurt your arm. It was that way 100 years ago, 60 years ago, 40 years ago and 20 years ago. Kids need to throw to build up arm strength. 30-40 pitches is just warming up.
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I agree with you here, unless its an inning from hell or something. As for pitch limits, I think they should increase throughout the year as arm strength goes up. So it makes sense to limit a kid early but they should be able to push it a little more with each outing. I think its more important to not have kids always pitching these huge number of pitches but an occasional game with adequate rest after shouldn't cause concern.
 
CedarBuck92 said:
I agree with you here, unless its an inning from hell or something. As for pitch limits, I think they should increase throughout the year as arm strength goes up. So it makes sense to limit a kid early but they should be able to push it a little more with each outing. I think its more important to not have kids always pitching these huge number of pitches but an occasional game with adequate rest after shouldn't cause concern.
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I'm not for more rules, but I do like the thought of increasing through the year, but why can a coach monitor that? Why do we have to have rules and regulations to monitor these things. I can't imagine a coach who doesn't have the kid's best interests at all times. If a kid's arm hurts, get them out of the game. Some kids can throw more than others, just like some can run faster, run longer than others.
 
14Red said:
I'm not for more rules, but I do like the thought of increasing through the year, but why can a coach monitor that? Why do we have to have rules and regulations to monitor these things. I can't imagine a coach who doesn't have the kid's best interests at all times. If a kid's arm hurts, get them out of the game. Some kids can throw more than others, just like some can run faster, run longer than others.
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I honestly think the rule is there because coaches have road 1 kid for the whole season to the detriment of the kids long term health.
 
Heard about a local team making cuts... will carry around 16 on Varsity with 4 to 6 I believe to be seniors..
I think the thought process is going to be to schedule a few (5) tougher "JV" games and get the core young guys more reps together without the Jr./Senior classes. Maybe some time in secondary positions. I like it, sounds like they still get as many reps as possible for guys that the program will turn to next year.
 
CedarBuck92 said:
I honestly think the rule is there because coaches have road 1 kid for the whole season to the detriment of the kids long term health.
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I think a baseball pitcher is a unique position and while I'm not big on parent involvement, I do feel that IF you have a kid who is potentially looking at pitching beyond high school, then the coach and parent(s) should have an open dialogue on pitching usage. I know as a parent I'd appreciate it, and as a coach I'd want to know if there was a problem with the kids arm. i don't mind the innings limits, I understand that you can't have your top two pitchers throwing 95% of the innings for the season.
To me, this is better addressed by the 5-10% or less who would abuse the rules rather than the 80% that are doing things right. If a coach is overusing a pitcher, that's an AD/ coach performance issue. Stop cluttering high school sports with rule after rule.
 
14Red said:
I think a baseball pitcher is a unique position and while I'm not big on parent involvement, I do feel that IF you have a kid who is potentially looking at pitching beyond high school, then the coach and parent(s) should have an open dialogue on pitching usage. I know as a parent I'd appreciate it, and as a coach I'd want to know if there was a problem with the kids arm. i don't mind the innings limits, I understand that you can't have your top two pitchers throwing 95% of the innings for the season.
To me, this is better addressed by the 5-10% or less who would abuse the rules rather than the 80% that are doing things right. If a coach is overusing a pitcher, that's an AD/ coach performance issue. Stop cluttering high school sports with rule after rule.
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The very first game one of my kids ever played for a "travel" team was in a league with no "pitch count" - just a 6-inning limit. Our 8 year-old starting pitcher threw 97 in 4 innings on a 38 degree night. I told the coach when the kid hit 60 in the 2nd inning and he told me "I don't believe in pitch counts - I can tell when they're tired."
 
green_genes said:
The very first game one of my kids ever played for a "travel" team was in a league with no "pitch count" - just a 6-inning limit. Our 8 year-old starting pitcher threw 97 in 4 innings on a 38 degree night. I told the coach when the kid hit 60 in the 2nd inning and he told me "I don't believe in pitch counts - I can tell when they're tired."
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That's incredible. And not many 8 year olds should be throwing 6 innings consecutively.
 
green_genes said:
The very first game one of my kids ever played for a "travel" team was in a league with no "pitch count" - just a 6-inning limit. Our 8 year-old starting pitcher threw 97 in 4 innings on a 38 degree night. I told the coach when the kid hit 60 in the 2nd inning and he told me "I don't believe in pitch counts - I can tell when they're tired."
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Not believing in pitch count as a proxy for arm use is silly and abusive. Send that coach that pitcher's Dr. Kremchek bills in 5 years.
 
green_genes said:
The very first game one of my kids ever played for a "travel" team was in a league with no "pitch count" - just a 6-inning limit. Our 8 year-old starting pitcher threw 97 in 4 innings on a 38 degree night. I told the coach when the kid hit 60 in the 2nd inning and he told me "I don't believe in pitch counts - I can tell when they're tired."
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I would respect the 24-hour rule and request a meeting with the coach the next day. My son's arm would be the priority...end of discussion.
 
green_genes said:
The very first game one of my kids ever played for a "travel" team was in a league with no "pitch count" - just a 6-inning limit. Our 8 year-old starting pitcher threw 97 in 4 innings on a 38 degree night. I told the coach when the kid hit 60 in the 2nd inning and he told me "I don't believe in pitch counts - I can tell when they're tired."
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What did the kids parent say (not sure what you mean by our)? Is this the only travel team in your area if not find a different one, problem solved, out some cash but takes care of the issue.
 
green_genes said:
The very first game one of my kids ever played for a "travel" team was in a league with no "pitch count" - just a 6-inning limit. Our 8 year-old starting pitcher threw 97 in 4 innings on a 38 degree night. I told the coach when the kid hit 60 in the 2nd inning and he told me "I don't believe in pitch counts - I can tell when they're tired."
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An 8U League with No Pitch Count should tell you everything you need to know!! Why would you and your 8 yr old want to be involved in a League where the “Adults” are clueless and obviously don’t care about the kids health? What moron(s) Run an 8U League with No Pitch Count? They should be “called out” every chance you get!
 
Smarty2022 said:
An 8U League with No Pitch Count should tell you everything you need to know!! Why would you and your 8 yr old want to be involved in a League where the “Adults” are clueless and obviously don’t care about the kids health? What moron(s) Run an 8U League with No Pitch Count? They should be “called out” every chance you get!
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Why are eight year olds pitching?
 
For the record, the 8 year old was pitching in a 10U league run by a local rec department that used to offer "open" leagues that played with travel rules and the ability to select your own roster.

As with most other things related to "travel" sports, if your kid isn't "playing up" - what are we even doing?

I would love to go back and look at the rosters for the Nations 10U state championship in 2016 and see how many of those kids are still playing baseball.
 
playboi12 said:
You're lucky. I literally tried to hide and stay low-key after sign ups and STILL got suckered(guilted) into coaching! Im like man, how many hints I had to drop? I wanna chill and watch too!
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After watching what some people call coaching, I might have to throw my hat in the ring. Kids need fundamentals- catch, throw, and hit!
 
Always on the search for coaching it seems at all levels. I know most high schools only offer 1 or 2 paid positions so then you have to beg and plead for volunteers. The world is more expensive than ever, its tough to find someone to give their time anymore!
 
Beaver2000 said:
After watching what some people call coaching, I might have to throw my hat in the ring. Kids need fundamentals- catch, throw, and hit!
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Oh and if you do start, please add running to that list. It's a huge fundamental pf the game that has become an afterthought to everyone. Easy to teach, yet no one does.
 
Philly_Cat said:
Oh and if you do start, please add running to that list. It's a huge fundamental pf the game that has become an afterthought to everyone. Easy to teach, yet no one does.
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Coaching base running was one of my favorite things to coach. Even as a slow player, I was good at running the bases.
 
Philly_Cat said:
Was this coach part of the same organization as you? Did you know the coach? Did he know his players were going to be guesting on your team? If so, did he know they would be pitching as well? Did you let that coach know how much they pitched.

I feel that if you borrow players from another team, you do have some sort of obligation to that team, if not out of respect for that coach, than for the safety of the players arms you're using. He's getting players back that he may have planned on using that he now can't use. Or even worse, he gets them back and pitches them under the idea that they are fresh, yet they actually have 40 pitches on their arm from the day before.
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Didn't realize they were contractually obligated not to pitch for another team on a Tuesday when they told the coach (me) that they never pitched for their travel team - or that 15 pitches and 3 Ks against rec-level kids would ruin them for the weekend.

Since their "travel" team was supported by all of the fundraising my kids' families did for the organization and they and their parents didn't pay a dime - and cut four kids from our community in favor of four kids from outside the district so they could win more games - I don't feel bad in the least.
 
Many of you blame travel baseball and that isn't the culprit. I believe it is the game itself isn't as popular these days, coupled with lacrosse now rising in popularity and lacrosse isn't a cut sport at most schools. Toss in more and more kids specializing in only one sport along with baseball being fairly pricey to play ($200+ bats, $150+ gloves, etc) and it is pretty clear in my mind why many schools can't field freshmen or JV teams. Travel (or Select or whatever anyone wants to call it) is basically the new rec league, but instead of the community organizing it, private clubs/entities do. There are several clubs in or near my town that kids play for instead of rec ball. Rec ball is pretty awful these days unfortunately and kids that play it get left behind because they have no opportunity to develop their skills in games that even remotely resemble baseball. And even some travel/select teams are anything but "select". The only qualification to get on some of them is whether your check clears or not. :)
 
Potato Pete said:
Many of you blame travel baseball and that isn't the culprit. I believe it is the game itself isn't as popular these days, coupled with lacrosse now rising in popularity and lacrosse isn't a cut sport at most schools. Toss in more and more kids specializing in only one sport along with baseball being fairly pricey to play ($200+ bats, $150+ gloves, etc) and it is pretty clear in my mind why many schools can't field freshmen or JV teams. Travel (or Select or whatever anyone wants to call it) is basically the new rec league, but instead of the community organizing it, private clubs/entities do. There are several clubs in or near my town that kids play for instead of rec ball. Rec ball is pretty awful these days unfortunately and kids that play it get left behind because they have no opportunity to develop their skills in games that even remotely resemble baseball. And even some travel/select teams are anything but "select". The only qualification to get on some of them is whether your check clears or not. :)
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I will say this, growing up in Philly area where lacrosse has always been popular, freshman teams were never a thing, for baseball or really any sport. I don't believe I had ever heard of straight freshman teams until I moved to Ohio. I graduated in 95 for reference. Memories a little fuzzy, but I don't remember there ever being anything even remotely close enough to field a freshman team at my high school.

With all that said, my school never had freshman for any sport. A lot of that may have had something to do with it being a mid size school usually graduating around 250, and they also offered pretty much every sport, club, and after school activity you could think of. Sports waaaaay outside the norm. We had hockey, crew, bowling, archery, even equestrian. Yea, horses and ish lol. So kids had tons of options for things to do outside of your standard sports.
 
Philly_Cat said:
I will say this, growing up in Philly area where lacrosse has always been popular, freshman teams were never a thing, for baseball or really any sport. I don't believe I had ever heard of straight freshman teams until I moved to Ohio. I graduated in 95 for reference. Memories a little fuzzy, but I don't remember there ever being anything even remotely close enough to field a freshman team at my high school.

With all that said, my school never had freshman for any sport. A lot of that may have had something to do with it being a mid size school usually graduating around 250, and they also offered pretty much every sport, club, and after school activity you could think of. Sports waaaaay outside the norm. We had hockey, crew, bowling, archery, even equestrian. Yea, horses and ish lol. So kids had tons of options for things to do outside of your standard sports.
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Very Bourgeois Philly Cat. I never would have thunk it
 
I know our school no longer has freshman teams for any sport. 10+ years ago that was your way on to jv and varsity. But numbers are down in my area in general. The school send kids to learn basketball at the YMCA. For kids starting out that’s fine but there’s no reason a 5th or 6th grader should be play rec league and hope to make their actual middle school team.
 
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