Jim Harbaugh

eastisbest

Well-known member
I really have no dog in this fight but why does Harbaugh get a pass? One of the highest paid coaches in the country and he has not produced. UM has had talent too. People believing there was a talent shortage are wrong. It is equally as bad to blame and fire coordinators. Those are Harbaugh's hires.

At least the new OC is the best they have had of the last three. They ran off Mattison and Washington.

And the excuse that no one else wants so the job so keep Harbaugh is utter BS. There are a bunch of really good coaches who would take the UM job and out perform Harbaugh.

Chew on this, Harbaugh's best team was with Hoke talent. I think the guy is a joke and I completely get why the OSU fans want him staying around.
Because like Ohio St is trying so hard to be Michigan, Michigan is trying hard not to be Ohio St. They do not want to admit it bugs them. Maybe and likely it doesn't bug them. They do not see sports the same way as Ohio St where sports drives the school. At Michigan, academics still drives the school. It's mostly the country club set, not the academic set that gets upset about losing to OSU. At least that's my limited experience with the school. If OSU passed them on the academic rankings then they'd get riled.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Because like Ohio St is trying so hard to be Michigan, Michigan is trying hard not to be Ohio St. They do not want to admit it bugs them. Maybe and likely it doesn't bug them. They do not see sports the same way as Ohio St where sports drives the school. At Michigan, academics still drives the school. It's mostly the country club set, not the academic set that gets upset about losing to OSU. At least that's my limited experience with the school. If OSU passed them on the academic rankings then they'd get riled.
By sports, you mean Football. Michigan is better overall, at least in Basketball & Baseball.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Because like Ohio St is trying so hard to be Michigan, Michigan is trying hard not to be Ohio St. They do not want to admit it bugs them. Maybe and likely it doesn't bug them. They do not see sports the same way as Ohio St where sports drives the school. At Michigan, academics still drives the school. It's mostly the country club set, not the academic set that gets upset about losing to OSU. At least that's my limited experience with the school. If OSU passed them on the academic rankings then they'd get riled.
Their fan bases are different no doubt. However UM still cares. They pay/paid Harbaugh VERY well to still be that elite brand. The school's return on investment has not been good.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Their fan bases are different no doubt. However UM still cares. They pay/paid Harbaugh VERY well to still be that elite brand. The school's return on investment has not been good.
They were still filling their stadium, still selling their merchandise. He doesn't deserve top salary based upon W-L product but to a school and alum group that could buy that contract out 5 times without a blink, it's not a risk for the funds he brings in. They're still getting the recruits. They still look elite. Branding matters to UM. Welcome to corporate America. He has the look they want. That's how they seem TO ME.

I don't know what investment return was expected? Been discussed earlier in the thread, Michigan's national strength is historically more in the head than on the field. They're not traditionally a perennial top four team, let alone a top two. They have their losses against the other conference teams. OSU putting on an even stronger product is going to limit their access to the NC.

Let's say the determining factor IS wins against OSU. They can't let him go for that because it would be caving. It would be saying that OSU matters. That's not them, not from any discussion I've ever had or heard on campus, tiny slice admitted. Nor is it consistent with any promotions or interviews to say that "the game" is all that. Their approach as opposed to OSU's is, the game isn't life and death. They'll sell the MSU rivalry. If it were wins and losses, he'd been out the door long ago.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I mostly agree with what EIB is saying...although I don't think the people that actually purchase tickets are going to tolerate another year that's as bad as this year was. Same with losing "the game". The admin and certain donors may be fine with the brand and image being conveyed, but the butts in the seats expect wins, not excuses. When the butts in the seats start to thin he will be gone.
 

Omar

Well-known member
They were still filling their stadium, still selling their merchandise. He doesn't deserve top salary based upon W-L product but to a school and alum group that could buy that contract out 5 times without a blink, it's not a risk for the funds he brings in. They're still getting the recruits. They still look elite. Branding matters to UM. Welcome to corporate America. He has the look they want. That's how they seem TO ME.

I don't know what investment return was expected? Been discussed earlier in the thread, Michigan's national strength is historically more in the head than on the field. They're not traditionally a perennial top four team, let alone a top two. They have their losses against the other conference teams. OSU putting on an even stronger product is going to limit their access to the NC.

Let's say the determining factor IS wins against OSU. They can't let him go for that because it would be caving. It would be saying that OSU matters. That's not them, not from any discussion I've ever had or heard on campus, tiny slice admitted. Nor is it consistent with any promotions or interviews to say that "the game" is all that. Their approach as opposed to OSU's is, the game isn't life and death. They'll sell the MSU rivalry. If it were wins and losses, he'd been out the door long ago.
The return was expected to be Urban Meyer levels of success. And I’m not sure I believe that Michigan fans think of MSU as a rival more than OSU.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
They were still filling their stadium, still selling their merchandise. He doesn't deserve top salary based upon W-L product but to a school and alum group that could buy that contract out 5 times without a blink, it's not a risk for the funds he brings in. They're still getting the recruits. They still look elite. Branding matters to UM. Welcome to corporate America. He has the look they want. That's how they seem TO ME.

I don't know what investment return was expected? Been discussed earlier in the thread, Michigan's national strength is historically more in the head than on the field. They're not traditionally a perennial top four team, let alone a top two. They have their losses against the other conference teams. OSU putting on an even stronger product is going to limit their access to the NC.

Let's say the determining factor IS wins against OSU. They can't let him go for that because it would be caving. It would be saying that OSU matters. That's not them, not from any discussion I've ever had or heard on campus, tiny slice admitted. Nor is it consistent with any promotions or interviews to say that "the game" is all that. Their approach as opposed to OSU's is, the game isn't life and death. They'll sell the MSU rivalry. If it were wins and losses, he'd been out the door long ago.
Agree to disagree. The "game" matters. Always has, always will. If you think UM folks are sitting around happy that they are still making money while losing to OSU you are mistaken.

The "Harbaugh" problem is they bit off such a big chunk with him that they cannot go back. I would, but "they" won't. If his team does not compete this season he is done but they have waited too long. He is a legacy. He was supposed to be the guy. They gave him everything. The thought process today is, well if Harbaugh cannot do it then no one else can, which is BS. In his desire to compete with OSU on recruiting he sold out. He went away from his patent ball control I-formation pound it out and play defense to Pep Hamilton and Josh Gattis who were awful. Alabama got rid of Gattis, UM did not steal him as was perceived. I think the stat goes that under Harbaugh UM has had ONE 1,000 rusher. That does not cut it anywhere let alone at UM. The bottom line is he has under performed and only got a pass because he is Harbaugh. I will tell you there are 9 better coaches in the B10 at the moment.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Agree to disagree. The "game" matters. Always has, always will. If you think UM folks are sitting around happy that they are still making money while losing to OSU you are mistaken.
absolutely.
I'm thinking and saying they take a different approach. Always have in MY experience. . Whether they think it or not, they are not generally going to admit the game means that much to them. They will generally say the Mich St game is more important if for no other reason than to not give an OSU fan the satisfaction. Now the Michigan fans IN Ohio, might say different. I'm talking Ann Arbor types. That's just my personal experience. I think their message boards will back that up too. I do not see them firing Harbaugh over that one game if for no other reason it would be admitting something they do not admit (or maybe even believe).
 
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Omar

Well-known member
Agree to disagree. The "game" matters. Always has, always will. If you think UM folks are sitting around happy that they are still making money while losing to OSU you are mistaken.

The "Harbaugh" problem is they bit off such a big chunk with him that they cannot go back. I would, but "they" won't. If his team does not compete this season he is done but they have waited too long. He is a legacy. He was supposed to be the guy. They gave him everything. The thought process today is, well if Harbaugh cannot do it then no one else can, which is BS. In his desire to compete with OSU on recruiting he sold out. He went away from his patent ball control I-formation pound it out and play defense to Pep Hamilton and Josh Gattis who were awful. Alabama got rid of Gattis, UM did not steal him as was perceived. I think the stat goes that under Harbaugh UM has had ONE 1,000 rusher. That does not cut it anywhere let alone at UM. The bottom line is he has under performed and only got a pass because he is Harbaugh. I will tell you there are 9 better coaches in the B10 at the moment.
I think there’s 5 better: Day, Franklin, Ferentz, Chryst, and Allen.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Fitzgerald is the best coach in the league with Meyer gone. Followed by Ferentz. Just my opinion of course. ;)

Brohm rounded out my 9.

Most years UM only follows OSU in terms of talent (in B10). This year PSU beat them out and they were 3rd.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Fitzgerald is the best coach in the league with Meyer gone. Followed by Ferentz. Just my opinion of course. ;)

Brohm rounded out my 9.

Most years UM only follows OSU in terms of talent (in B10). This year PSU beat them out and they were 3rd.
Brohm’s status has taken a big dip the last 2 seasons.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
Tom Allen's buyout until the end of this up-coming season is over $20m. Dec 1st of 2022 it drops to about $1m. So a school would have to pony up a sizable amount to move him from his home (he's a native Indianan), I would guess pay most if not all of his buyout, plus pay whatever coach(es) they fire to hire Tom Allen.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Brohm’s status has taken a big dip the last 2 seasons.
He's was QB flashy and PrudeU has always liked that. THough a fan of Purdue, I honestly think Louisville got the better deal when Brohm said he was staying at Purdue and they got Satterfield. If Brohm can learn you have to recruit lines to compete in the Big Ten, maybe I'll change my tune.

Tom Allen, his wife, his family, his pets, they bleed IU. Would take more than cash to separate them. They'd need photos.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
He's was QB flashy and PrudeU has always liked that. THough a fan of Purdue, I honestly think Louisville got the better deal when Brohm said he was staying at Purdue and they got Satterfield. If Brohm can learn you have to recruit lines to compete in the Big Ten, maybe I'll change my tune.

Tom Allen, his wife, his family, his pets, they bleed IU. Would take more than cash to separate them. They'd need photos.
IU got the better deal when Wilson left to be OC at OSU and they hired Green. Green is Dantonio 2.0. Former DC. DC's make great HC's.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Nick Saban, Mark Dantonio, Kirby Smart, Barry Alvarez, Pete Carroll, Bill Belicheck, Urban Meyer (played D, started coaching D)...
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
I don’t think you can really include Urban on that list. He coached OLB for 1 year to start his career. He’s an offensive coach. I think jury is still out on Smart as a great/good HC, and I’m somewhat of a UGA fan. Amazing recruiter, but if he can’t out talent teams, they lose.
 
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