Is Ohio State Wrestling in a recruiting funk, or is Penn State recruiting just THAT GOOD???

With Alex Facundo and Shayne Vann Ness now in the fold during the holiday weekend, it makes me wonder can the Penn State Wrestling machine be stopped on the mat when they continuously land multiple blue chip recruits every single cycle.

There was a point when Tom Ryan and the Bucks were neck and neck with Penn State. As of late, Penn State seems to have distanced itself. I know the Bucks landed Enchemendia, (and it is my theory since Kerkvliet/Synder left for Penn State), the Nittany Lions have had the edge in recruiting. Any thoughts? Are we in a funk? I say we need a big name to come on board to even the playing field with Penn State...would Coach Ryan ever think about getting an OHIO legend to come HOME and coach and help snatch those recruits to the BUCKEYE state??? (David Taylor) One could always dream!!!
 
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WGTJ

Active member
While I suppose he is an Ohio legend, he did just come here for HS to wrestle at Graham. It's not like he is a born and bred Buckeye state individual.
 
While I suppose he is an Ohio legend, he did just come here for HS to wrestle at Graham. It's not like he is a born and bred Buckeye state individual.
While I do understand and agree with your post in that I wouldn't consider DT "a born and bred Buckeye" he did wrestle/live in Ohio from the 6th grade-12th grade. Not just 9-12.
 
While I do understand and agree with your post in that I wouldn't consider DT "a born and bred Buckeye" he did wrestle/live in Ohio from the 6th grade-12th grade. Not just 9-12.
Anyone know DT's aspirations after his international career is over? I know his M2 training center is running in PA, but does he ever plan on taking the route of collegiate coaching? Also, how many years does Coach Ryan have left running the Buckeyes and who would take over when he decides to hang up the whistle? Jaggers? Tervel?
 

cruiser_96

Well-known member
I do believe Kolat has landed HIS dream job. Personally, I do not see him abandoning that station anytime soon.

Maryland was open last year (two years ago?) and he didn't take it. Didn't even apply for it. How far is U of Maryland form Naval Academy?? Can't be more than an hours drive. I say that because location wouldn't be an issue. Maryland is B1G. So the idea that he's looking for a B1G school doesn't fly either.
 

losubucks

Member
I am not sure that the recruiting is in a funk. We had back to back big classes before 2020 class. We were limited and signed Enchemendia and Byrce Hepner as the only ones in that class. We have two of the top ten p4p guys verbally committed(Gallagher and Shumate.) Also still in the mix for Richie Figueroa. So, I don't think we are dead yet.
 

SCC

Member
I do believe Kolat has landed HIS dream job. Personally, I do not see him abandoning that station anytime soon.

Maryland was open last year (two years ago?) and he didn't take it. Didn't even apply for it. How far is U of Maryland form Naval Academy?? Can't be more than an hours drive. I say that because location wouldn't be an issue. Maryland is B1G. So the idea that he's looking for a B1G school doesn't fly either.
The drive depends on traffic, but yeah, it's about 45 minutes.

In wrestling, Maryland produces some noteworthy talent. It has some serious youth teams, it borders PA, not from from NJ, lots of opportunities to compete with talent from several states.

But competitive amateur sports is downplayed throughout all of the schools and orgs. That's why I was shocked UMd was invited to B1G. Urban centers produce enough basketball talent, and they've got lacrosse, but other than that, they are weak and their youth sports systems keep it that way.

I went to see UMd vs Navy in a dual several years ago (hard to believe how fast time flies). The UMd wrestlers looked out of shape, like it was almost a hobby. And while you expect the Midshipmen to be in great shape, it's impressive how well they compete when they have so many responsibilities.
 

CoachMorgan

Active member
I am not sure that the recruiting is in a funk. We had back to back big classes before 2020 class. We were limited and signed Enchemendia and Byrce Hepner as the only ones in that class. We have two of the top ten p4p guys verbally committed(Gallagher and Shumate.) Also still in the mix for Richie Figueroa. So, I don't think we are dead yet.
I agree. They also signed Kharchla who was the top overall recruit in his class according to some. I don't think Ohio State is that far behind Penn St. in regards to their recruiting. The key as always is developing those guys and Ohio State has proven they can do that.
 

Yankeefan33

Well-known member
I'm not sure Penn State is so far ahead of Ohio State (or Iowa, for that matter) in recruiting, but I do think they are exceptionally good at hitting on their recruits, and getting 1st place points from them. I'm categorizing them by hits (AA caliber), possibles (could AA but haven't/didn't), too early (just can't tell) and misses (don't see them AAing for the team). I'm only tracking Flowrestling Top 100 recruits, for the most part.

Penn State:
2018- Two hits (Brooks/RBY) already, with Beard and Lee possibles. Teasdale/Teske/Nevills probably misses
2017- Nick Lee a hit, Berge a possible, Verkleeren a miss
2016- Marky Hall a big hit, Suriano (because he transferred), Manville, and Nevills misses
2015- Cenzo a hit, Stout a miss

Ohio State:
2018- One hit (Sasso), two probables in Heinselman and Rocky, Hoffman and Kinner as too early, and Mattox, Freeman, and Felix are misses.
2017- Three possibles in Singletary, Romero, and Ethan Smith
2016- Pletcher a hit, Clearly and Isaiah White misses
2015- Myles Martin and Kollin Moore big hits, Ke'Shawn was a possible, Jose Rodriguez a miss

Iowa:
2018- Cassioppi a hit, too early for Brands
2017- Lee and Warner already hits, Murin a possible, and Costello a miss
2016- Marinelli and Young are hits, Happel and Wagner misses
2015- Kemmerer a hit, Turk and Holloway misses

So, Penn State recruited 16 guys, and five of them have hit already, with three other possibles. Ohio State had 18 guys, four hits, and 6 possibles. Iowa has 13 guys, six hits, and a possible. That's who is at the top right now: Iowa-Penn State-Ohio State.
 

falcons53

Active member
I worked a camp with a former 3X D1 Champ still competing and trying to represent Team USA. His plan is the reverse of guys mentioned. Coach college a few years and then open a youth club. He said youth club is way more lucrative than college coaching. I found that interesting as I have only ever coached in non-profit clubs. He said between the club and private lessens it is quite a bit more than 90% of college HC. I assume the few big names are the 10%.
 
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jmog

Well-known member
I worked a camp with a former 3X D1 Champ still competing and trying to represent Team USA. His plan is the reverse of guys mentioned. Coach college a few years and then open a youth club. He said youth club is way more lucrative than college coaching. I found that interesting as I have only ever coached in non-profit clubs. He said between the club and private lessens it is quite a bit more than 90% of college HC. I assume the few big names are the 10%.
Think it through...

Yough and Jr High club.

Call it 100 kids, minimum $50/month per kid (usually more if you are a "well known" wrestler/coach). That's $45,000 in 9 months MINIMUM.

Now, throw in camps...
1 camp/weekend a month...
$150/kid, roughly 50 kids, and having it at your facility means the $$ is all yours. Do that 12 times in a year and that's another $90,000.

Throw in selling gear that promotes you and your club and a youth/JH club owner/coach, IF they were a well known college wrestler, can EASILY make $150,000/year MINIMUM if they put the work in (12 camps a year plus 3-5 practices a week for 9 months is not easy).

I am just going off the club prices I saw when my high schooler was a kid and the camp prices for a weekend. This is not even counting in week long camps in the summer like Jordan's do.
 

SCC

Member
Think it through...

Yough and Jr High club.

Call it 100 kids, minimum $50/month per kid (usually more if you are a "well known" wrestler/coach). That's $45,000 in 9 months MINIMUM.

Now, throw in camps...
1 camp/weekend a month...
$150/kid, roughly 50 kids, and having it at your facility means the $$ is all yours. Do that 12 times in a year and that's another $90,000.

Throw in selling gear that promotes you and your club and a youth/JH club owner/coach, IF they were a well known college wrestler, can EASILY make $150,000/year MINIMUM if they put the work in (12 camps a year plus 3-5 practices a week for 9 months is not easy).

I am just going off the club prices I saw when my high schooler was a kid and the camp prices for a weekend. This is not even counting in week long camps in the summer like Jordan's do.
You left out facilities costs, insurance, and the cost of camp counselors. Also advertising and accounting.

There are other potential income streams I'm sure, but I think there are some challenges in running a successful club.
 

SCC

Member
Sorry guys, Penn State is just that good..
I will say PSU's wrestlers always seem to improve: throughout the season, throughout their college careers.

They also seem to have the secret sauce for managing weight. And that's not meant to be some accusation. Their wrestlers seem strong and energetic.
 
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jmog

Well-known member
You left out facilities costs, insurance, and the cost of camp counselors. Also advertising and accounting.

There are other potential income streams I'm sure, but I think there are some challenges in running a successful club.
1. Many get permission to use their old HS facilities. So the facility fees are low.
2. Most require the wrestlers to have a USA wrestling membership to cover insurance, but I am sure they still have to have some cheap liability insurance of their own through USA wrestling.
3. Many I have seen run the camps themselves, but if they do have extra camp clinicians then yes, they give them some of the money.
4. I don't see a whole lot of advertising. I mean Mitch Clark never advertises and every single one of his camps are sold out. I don't see the Jordans' advertising and their camps are always sold out. Word of mouth and here on yappi forums is enough to get the parents of youth and JH students (and HS) to shell out the $$.
 

cosh wrestling dad

Active member
Think it through...

Yough and Jr High club.

Call it 100 kids, minimum $50/month per kid (usually more if you are a "well known" wrestler/coach). That's $45,000 in 9 months MINIMUM.

Now, throw in camps...
1 camp/weekend a month...
$150/kid, roughly 50 kids, and having it at your facility means the $$ is all yours. Do that 12 times in a year and that's another $90,000.

Throw in selling gear that promotes you and your club and a youth/JH club owner/coach, IF they were a well known college wrestler, can EASILY make $150,000/year MINIMUM if they put the work in (12 camps a year plus 3-5 practices a week for 9 months is not easy).

I am just going off the club prices I saw when my high schooler was a kid and the camp prices for a weekend. This is not even counting in week long camps in the summer like Jordan's do.
Your only saying 50 kids at camp alot of the Big name coaches have 150 at a camp (3 split sessions or youth 2 day Ms another) that's free money. By far more than most college coaches I'm sure
 

FirestoneFan

Well-known member
I work construction and overhead is what people don't understand. If I pay a guy $15 an hour why would I charge more? Not going to get into it but there is a lot more involved than just paying your help.
 

OddJob

Active member
To replace Ryan?
Not yet but in the future yes, Ryan I think has done all he could to get the OSU program to where it is and in my opinion it will not get any better. Kolat on the other hand may have landed his dream job [for the time being] but the allure of coaching in the show [Big 10] with sold out crowds, unlimited resources, conference and National Team Title implications plus $$$$$ coaching salary would be to great to turn down, heck look at what he accomplished at Campbell, last season he beat Iowa State and nearly knocked off Arizona State,the guy is 24-7-365 wrestling
 
Tom Ryan's salary counting everything is reportedly $462,000. Cael and Brands probably make more.

Cael still gets on the mat and wrestles. That's why Snyder is there. With the star power of the Nits Olympic wrestling club...it will be hard to match them with undergraduate recruits. OSU and Iowa doing the best they can...no fault of their coaching staffs.
 

Crab Ride

Active member
1. Many get permission to use their old HS facilities. So the facility fees are low.
2. Most require the wrestlers to have a USA wrestling membership to cover insurance, but I am sure they still have to have some cheap liability insurance of their own through USA wrestling.
3. Many I have seen run the camps themselves, but if they do have extra camp clinicians then yes, they give them some of the money.
4. I don't see a whole lot of advertising. I mean Mitch Clark never advertises and every single one of his camps are sold out. I don't see the Jordans' advertising and their camps are always sold out. Word of mouth and here on yappi forums is enough to get the parents of youth and JH students (and HS) to shell out the $$.
You didn’t even mention privates. Run a private before practice charging $30 a kid with 4 kids before every practice. There’s another $360/week for about 36 weeks minimum and there’s another 13k. And let’s not forget that most of these guys aren’t paying taxes on this money. Do it right and you can make some pretty good dough.
 

OCEagle

Well-known member
You didn’t even mention privates. Run a private before practice charging $30 a kid with 4 kids before every practice. There’s another $360/week for about 36 weeks minimum and there’s another 13k. And let’s not forget that most of these guys aren’t paying taxes on this money. Do it right and you can make some pretty good dough.
How are they not paying taxes on that money? Are you suggesting they are risking their large salaries and their careers to make another $13K (estimated under a fictional scenario) "under the table" and then illegally not report it on their tax returns to save about $4K in taxes??

I'd like to think they are not that stupid - but you never know about how easily greed can dictate stupid decisions.

There is a big difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Not reporting income (tax evasion) is criminal (a federal felony) and the penalties can be severe - including prison time. Reporting expense offsets to that income that are determined to not be deductible - is tax avoidance. That is punishable by fines, penalties & interest, and restitution for all taxes not previously paid. But no criminal charges if determined to be done in error.

Definitely not worth it. All it takes is for an IRS agent to catch wind of suggestions that the "coach is training athletes with under the table cash payments" - and it is in the thousands of dollars over a long period of time. That, and a vendetta for the coach or school, can easily trigger an audit.

As a final point, whistleblowers can receive up to 30% of the taxes and penalties recovered by providing such information to the IRS. Pi$$ off the wrong parent that has seen what is going on and heard the coach mention he will only take cash because he "doesn't have to claim it on his taxes" - and there you go.
 
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