Indiana Basketball 2023-24

14Red

14Red

Well-known member

Sorry to start this thread on a down note to start the season, but IU basketball, coming off a pretty good season and with some great talent recruited by coach Mike Woodson, hopes to continue to get back to being a top program in the big ten, and compete nationally.
Well, this isn't a good way to get things started. 5 star recruit Mackenzie Mgbako from New Jersey had a bit of a tiff at a local Bloomington Taco Bell of all places. You see these stories occasionally, fortunately not as much as we used to because I feel kids are smarter now and have more to lose by acting up. I have no idea why this kid would resist simply because Taco Bell would not serve him. Let's hope this is a big misunderstanding as Mgbako is expected to be a key contributor this season.
 
 
So getting things started, this is a rebuilding year for IU. Do everything Trayce Jackson-Davis is gone to the NBA after a steller 4 year career and put himself in elite company in IU basketball history. Freshman Jalen Hood-Schifino moved on and is with the Lakers, vets MIller Kopp and tuff guy Race Thompson are also graduated and gone. Jordan Geronimo has decided to transfer. So IU is left with little on the shelf with exprience. Trey Galloway, Xavier Johnson Tamar Bates and Malik Reneau all had key contributions last season, CJ Gunn and Kaleb Banks played sparingly as freshmen.
Key recruits include guard Gabe Cupps, transfer big man Kel'el Ware, transfer Anthony Walker, freshman Jakai Newton, guard James Goodis, 5 star Makenzie Mgbako, and tranfers, Jackson Creel, Payton Sparks and Jordan Rayford.
 
14Red said:
So getting things started, this is a rebuilding year for IU. Do everything Trayce Jackson-Davis is gone to the NBA after a steller 4 year career and put himself in elite company in IU basketball history. Freshman Jalen Hood-Schifino moved on and is with the Lakers, vets MIller Kopp and tuff guy Race Thompson are also graduated and gone. Jordan Geronimo has decided to transfer. So IU is left with little on the shelf with exprience. Trey Galloway, Xavier Johnson Tamar Bates and Malik Reneau all had key contributions last season, CJ Gunn and Kaleb Banks played sparingly as freshmen.
Key recruits include guard Gabe Cupps, transfer big man Kel'el Ware, transfer Anthony Walker, freshman Jakai Newton, guard James Goodis, 5 star Makenzie Mgbako, and tranfers, Jackson Creel, Payton Sparks and Jordan Rayford.
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Hmmm. I think I actually like the Buckeyes chances vs IU this year.
 
cjb5656 said:
Hmmm. I think I actually like the Buckeyes chances vs IU this year.
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Buckeyes always play IU tough, Matta was a heck of a coach in Columbus, very underrated IMO. IU will be a work in progress this year, hard telling how the young guys will pan out.
 
I'll believe the success when I see it. Sure hope Woodson is not counting on cupps to be THE guy who gets us over the hump. Been hearing this too many years RE good recruiting classes and I'm sorta over it.
 
What's the upside for Cupps this year? In the rotation as a freshman or a ways to go to get to that point?

I wouldn't be shocked to see him break the rotation at some point.
 
Thavoice said:
I'll believe the success when I see it. Sure hope Woodson is not counting on cupps to be THE guy who gets us over the hump. Been hearing this too many years RE good recruiting classes and I'm sorta over it.
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I don't disagree and we have to really trust our eyes now. These schools and social media makes every recruiting class seem like the Fab Five. There are so many scouting services and so much AAU out there you really never know what you have until the games begin. We are now really getting into the true Mike Woodson era as last year kind of purged all the Archie guys ( Jackson-Davis, Thompson, Kopp). So we'll see how it goes. The one thing with going after these big time talents is that you can lose them as fast as you get them. Jalen Hood-Schifino's loss is tremendous. It's odd though because I wonder if he has the season he has last year and even considers leaving for the NBA if Xavier Johnson doesn't get hurt. His role was much different after X left. He was able to really blossom. Now I feel he really needed at least another year in Bloomington but it doens't happen that way anymore, at least for many of these guys. I think Cupps has a nice learning year. X will be the primary point and Cupps can be used as needed or as a 2 guard.
 
Doublehelix said:
What's the upside for Cupps this year? In the rotation as a freshman or a ways to go to get to that point?

I wouldn't be shocked to see him break the rotation at some point.
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I think you may see him get some rotation time in the backcourt. IU's guard play is suspect. Xavier Johnson will be the primary point guard, experienced and tough. After that it's shaky. CJ Gunn, Anthony Leal, Trey Galloway, Jakai Newton all may be in the mix.
 
14Red said:
So getting things started, this is a rebuilding year for IU. Do everything Trayce Jackson-Davis is gone to the NBA after a steller 4 year career and put himself in elite company in IU basketball history. Freshman Jalen Hood-Schifino moved on and is with the Lakers, vets MIller Kopp and tuff guy Race Thompson are also graduated and gone. Jordan Geronimo has decided to transfer. So IU is left with little on the shelf with exprience. Trey Galloway, Xavier Johnson Tamar Bates and Malik Reneau all had key contributions last season, CJ Gunn and Kaleb Banks played sparingly as freshmen.
Key recruits include guard Gabe Cupps, transfer big man Kel'el Ware, transfer Anthony Walker, freshman Jakai Newton, guard James Goodis, 5 star Makenzie Mgbako, and tranfers, Jackson Creel, Payton Sparks and Jordan Rayford.
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scratch Tamar Bates, he transferred to Missouri. Geronimo is at Maryland.
 
Hey for you guys that want more on Knight, take it from a guy who knew him best. Dan Dakich, played for Knight, was a captain, was an assistant for 17 years at IU before becoming the head coach at Bowling Green. Go to youtube and search Dan Dakich/ Outkick. Dakich now a radio/ podcast host and really provides alot of insight, good and bad of his time with Knight. Not a fluff story either as they had a falling out years ago when both worked at ESPN. But Dak shoots straight from the hip on Knight, IU basketball history and it's pretty dang entertaining.
 
Ok, so IU has now had a couple of scrimmages and two games and it's going to be a rough one. They've played Florida Gulf Coast and Army. Now FGC is expected to contend in their conference, but in both games IU was behind the 2nd half. A good last 10 minutes bailed them out of both games.
The issue is the 1/2 court offense. Malik Reneau is probably the most consistent performer we have so far. He's poor man's TJD, just not as prolific and explosive. Kel'el Ware, the 7'0" transfer from Oregon has had flashes of good play. Xavier Johnson has been ok. We just don't have that guy that can go get a bucket when needed. Last night, we were over the 10 minute mark in the first half an IU had 11 points. They made a few runs and finally took a short lead at half, but it was back and forth most of the 2nd half. Only because could physically out muscle these teams is because they won. Well come big ten season, they phyiscal difference go away and I just don't see any guys that can go get buckets. Ware is a nice player and provides alot of rim protection.
First big test will come Sunday vs. UConn.
 
The little bit I saw of Indiana and they look terrible. Michigan is the Big Tens best team from what I’ve seen. Phil Martelli should remain their coach
 
Spartacus1987 said:
The little bit I saw of Indiana and they look terrible. Michigan is the Big Tens best team from what I’ve seen. Phil Martelli should remain their coach
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It could be a long year for the Hoosiers come big ten season. They had a great 12-15 minutes to start the game last night vs. Wright State, but it was a struggle from there, never gave up the lead but it's Wright State and they didn't even have their best player. Defense isn't great, offense struggles and we still don't have many shooters. Kid went 7-10 from 3 point land and we simply could not locate him. Yes, IU can play bully ball with the mid majors, Ware, Reneau are going to dominate mid major bigs, but this team just does not shoot well, including free throws. Once the big ten season starts, our bigs won't have that. Gabe Cupps, really like him but I feel in today's game you have to be a threat to score. He just doesn't look for shots. He was 0-1 in 18 minutes last night, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, and 2 turnovers. First test is Sunday when we play UCONN.
 
to really the surprise of no one, IU was worked over by UCONN yesterday in the Empire Classic. The Huskies are the real deal and it wasn't so bad they lost, but they looked like they are a long, long way from competing at this level. The issue with this team is lack of scoring and rebounding. It's been a struggle over the past two coaches in Miller and Woodson to find shooters amazingly enough. When you can't stretch a defense, it becomes much easier to guard the paint. The other issue is 5 star recruit Mackenzie Mgbako and his incredibly slow start to the season. I think this kid was projected as a can't miss, possible one and one and he's not done much yet for the Hoosiers. If you recall he's the kid who was arrested at the local Taco Bell a few weeks ago.
Mike Woodson said all the right things in getting the job, but Hoosier fans will not settle for being nothing more than a contender in the big ten annually.
Back at it today as they play Louisville this afternoon.
 
UCONN is everything I wish Ohio State was as a basketball program. They are the absolute gold standard over ANY other college basketball program
 
Spartacus1987 said:
UCONN is everything I wish Ohio State was as a basketball program. They are the absolute gold standard over ANY other college basketball program
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Ohio State has had great basketball, Thad Matta was an excellent coach. I always felt bad for that program because no one really cares about them too much, it's all football. There was a stretch in the early 2010's where I'd said the basketball team performed better than football and few noticed.
I think the Greg Oden/ Michael Conley one and done group really ticked off alot of people. In football you generally get at least two, sometimes 3 years from the top players and generally 4 from most.
 
14Red said:
Ohio State has had great basketball, Thad Matta was an excellent coach. I always felt bad for that program because no one really cares about them too much, it's all football. There was a stretch in the early 2010's where I'd said the basketball team performed better than football and few noticed.
I think the Greg Oden/ Michael Conley one and done group really ticked off alot of people. In football you generally get at least two, sometimes 3 years from the top players and generally 4 from most.
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I absolutely noticed. I feel bad for the program too because look at what the SEC is doing in basketball right now. Football schools can absolutely have success in basketball if you invest the money.

I would never call OSU great outside of the Fred Taylor years. Thad was an amazing recruiter and person but he was one of the worst X’s and O’s coaches I have ever seen. It’s the reason why they under achieved so much during his years even for as much success he had.
 
14Red said:
Gabe Cupps, really like him but I feel in today's game you have to be a threat to score. He just doesn't look for shots. He was 0-1 in 18 minutes last night, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, and 2 turnovers. First test is Sunday when we play UCONN.
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He's the perfect piece if IU had more offensive talent. He's simply doing his job right now. He's been great on the defensive end too.
 
Doublehelix said:
He's the perfect piece if IU had more offensive talent. He's simply doing his job right now. He's been great on the defensive end too.
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We'll see how this plays out. I can't imagine over two games, 28 minutes, 0-1 FG, 2 reb, 2 assists, 1 turnover is doing his job. Even if you're not shooting, how can you not compile more rebounds / assists?
 
14Red said:
We'll see how this plays out. I can't imagine over two games, 28 minutes, 0-1 FG, 2 reb, 2 assists, 1 turnover is doing his job. Even if you're not shooting, how can you not compile more rebounds / assists?
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He's a freshman role player. His job is to run the team, play good defense and not make mistakes. Not everything that impacts winning shows up in the stat sheet.

Check Reed Sheppard for UK - his last game he scored zero points and was the best player on the floor. Not saying Cupps is the best player, but the IU staff is very high on him, as evidence of him being trusted with good minutes right from the jump of his freshman year. If you've followed his career, he is a true point guard first.
 
14Red said:
We'll see how this plays out. I can't imagine over two games, 28 minutes, 0-1 FG, 2 reb, 2 assists, 1 turnover is doing his job. Even if you're not shooting, how can you not compile more rebounds / assists?
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Concur. Saw him a couple times in HS and wondered how in the hell IU wanted him. Yea, nice HS player, prolly should be at a D2 college.
His career won't end well in Indiana
 
Well, it gets real now. Indiana beat a very game Harvard team yesterday in Indianapolis, 89-76 in a game where they were down at halftime, and lost their starting PG for who knows how long and their top returning post player left the game as well.
Lots of good however. The much maligned Makenzie Mgbako played easily his best game as a Hoosier, exploding for 18 points, most in the first half and early 2nd, Kel'el Ware had a near perfect night going for 28 points on 12-13 shooting. Mr. Steady Malik Reneau chipped in with 17 points. Largely on Ware's hot shooting, the Hoosiers shot 57% for the game and oddly, they simply could not shake Harvard. They have a phenominal freshman point guard in Malik Mack. I'm not one for advocating transfers, but if that kid showed up in Bloomington next year, I would not be mad.
IU's guard play has suddenly become and issue. Xavier Johnson left the game before halftime and was not dressed for the 2nd half. Had ice on his foot. This is not a great sign going into the conference season and having two conference game and Auburn/ Kansas coming up. Trey Galloway has seemingly regressed. Gabe Cupps, while running the floor and not making major mistakes, can't score and really doesn't even look to score.
For this IU team, it's going to be imperative to win the games - especially at home - that you are supposed to win. Maryland Friday is one of those. At Michigan next week will be difficult. I don't feel the big ten will be real strong this year so that helps as well. Purdue is going to be great this year. I think Michigan State will be their normal selves, good but not as good as the nation thinks. They get more mileage out of Izzo than anyone else out of their coach. Ohio State will be improved, Chris Holtman is a very underrated coach. Other than that it's really hard to guague who's going to be good this year.
 
Cupps is more than capable of scoring, it's just not what he's being asked to do.

Help me understand the hate for a freshman PG learning the college game? Who expects a kid in that situation to be averaging 10+ points a game?
 
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