HILAND WINS NUMBER 6!!!!
- Thread starter HiTime
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When you say hiding in fear....you mean during the OHSAA no-contact period that was in place through the first few months of COVID?
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
Are you inadvertently implying that Hiland cheated in some fashion? GREENDAY beat me to it, but recall that the OHSAA declared all school athletic facilities and physical contact b/w coaches and players off limits until early June. My school took it a step further and told us that any coach violating the OHSAA's ban would be terminated with no questions asked. My school's girls basketball team began practicing as soon as the OHSAA ban was lifted. They won 7 games. It wasn't due to them "hiding in fear."
You got every reason to be excited about Hiland's victory, and I'm happy for them, too. It would've been cool to see them play Waynedale in the final, a la baseball a few years ago. To claim others were "hiding in fear" is simply asinine though.
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While I agree that the "hiding in fear" comment was out of line, to jump from that to implying cheating is a big leap with no real info.
You can go to wklmfm.com to the state championship celebration and listen to players and coaches talk about what they did last summer. Hint: it wasnt cheating. It was something a little more old fashioned and virtuous.
While I agree that the "hiding in fear" comment was out of line, to jump from that to implying cheating is a big leap with no real info.
You can go to wklmfm.com to the state championship celebration and listen to players and coaches talk about what they did last summer. Hint: it wasnt cheating. It was something a little more old fashioned and virtuous.
IVVGuy - to be clear - I don’t think anyone is referring to the summer.
You mentioned that there is no real info - but there is. After the game - numerous players and Coach Schlabach openly discussed how they started practicing immediately (one player even said “in March”) after the state tournament was cancelled last year. I admire this work ethic - the problem is that it was 100% illegal and cheating - because the state was CLEARLY (no debating this AT ALL) in a no-contact period for months (until summer).
Then - to top it off - the now much-discussed Indiana trips....the state also clearly laid out that once skillwork was allowed to start, teams were not allowed to scrimmage or play other teams. What does Hiland do? They take an “AAU team” named the Hawks - made up of all Hiland players to Indiana to play (eventually the rule was changed and teams were allowed to a scrimmage).
One basketball fan’s (me) thoughts:
Hiland was far and away the best team in D3. They had a special group of players and coaches. This was not because they were the most athletic or physically gifted or even particularly lucky. It was because they worked hard and bought into a special mission - one that they ultimately accomplished. They played a tough schedule - developed depth - won close games - bought into their roles. With that being said - they didn’t need to do what they did in the spring and early summer (while darn near everyone else in Ohio was following the rules) to win a state title this year.
The powers that be and most basketball fans in Ohio don’t seem to care - so no worries. Leave other schools (who were following the rules) out of it though. It doesn’t mean anyone is hating on Hiland’s championship or suggesting that they don’t work extremely hard - it’s simply saying that after winning a state title (which they earned) - nobody wants to hear this story about how they worked so hard for a year (breaking the rules) while everyone else stayed at home “scared” of COVID.
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
While I agree that the "hiding in fear" comment was out of line, to jump from that to implying cheating is a big leap with no real info.
You can go to wklmfm.com to the state championship celebration and listen to players and coaches talk about what they did last summer. Hint: it wasnt cheating. It was something a little more old fashioned and virtuous.
I don't know if any rules were broken, but I know what the rules were from the middle of last March to early June. The poster to whom I was responding appeared to imply that the Lady Hawks had gone above and beyond those rules, so I asked a question. I don't know why the poster to whom I was responding had to dump on most everyone else who simply followed the rules that the OHSAA put into place for nearly 3 months. I'll say again that my school's team began training as soon as the OHSAA's ban was lifted. The fact that they won only 7 games (an increase over last year, BTW) was not due to "hiding in fear."
Well, I'm perhaps jaded by history. Because every time some team gets their arse kicked, or just some general fan looks at their success, this crap comes out.
What I am telling you is that you dont know the character of the people you are slandering, and you do not know the character of the people who supervise them.
Narratives get spun. Why? A speaker at the celebration yesterday said that she has noticed that some people are attracted by excellence - want to be around it and part of it, but some people are almost offended by it as if that excellence is an indictment of their failure to do it too. There's some truth in that.
A common narrative? They recruit. All the successful programs do it, right? The numbers dont back that up. They get kids from adjacent school districts occasionally, but we are not talking about high talent kids usually. A very talented girl came from West Holmes 12 years ago, and, well, there it is. They clearly recruited her. Except that's not what happened. She wasnt happy where she was and her parents made a move to try to make her happy. But the point is, I count less than 5 high profile kids in the last 30 years that transferred in. If Hiland is recruiting, it is the one thing they are terrible at. Lol
Another narrative - and one that you are putting out there - is the cheating surrounds "over-practicing". My dau was in the program a decade ago. Those kids do work hard. When they cant do it as a team with supervision, they have their Gym Rat program where they work on individual skills. It's not over-bearing. They probably work 45 min a day on avg, 5 or 6 days a week, but it is more than most kids are doing.
We get into this thing where some people start to take it on themselves to use their (usually flawed) interpretation of OHSAA rules to imply cheating via over-practicing and over-coaching. But it goes further than that where they imply that kids cant get together at a house, a court, or a gym to play - all on their own initiative. Where do these people derive this authority from? Last I checked, this is America, and citizens are free to associate and do legal activities together, and since we are talking about minors, the parents are in charge of making those decisions, not some guy on a social media platform.
As for the Chicago trips, you actually gave the answer in your post. The no contact period was over in the summer - and that is when they went to Chicago! Good Lord.
Finally, I think you need to understand that our area is unique in terms of how most people viewed and dealt with COVID-19. For better and worse, and for cultural and religious reasons, we just weren't as scared of this virus. We were probably the least compliant county in the state in terms of public health mandates, and so I'm pretty sure most parents had no problems with their kids getting together and playing. That attitude unfortunately came out in the OP's comments, and seems to have motivated a lot of this nonsense. But, in my mind, it is total nonsense.
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Agreed.
scbuckeye99
Well-known member
In all fairness the Amish don't believe in Covid, so....there's that
Lol. Well, you hit a nerve!
There are two ways to communicate with words: 1) in a way that can be understood 2) in a way that cannot be MISUNDERSTOOD.
The important thing to me is that the Lady Hawks and their coach got exactly what they deserved. It doesnt always happen that way.
JusticeLeague3
Member
Congratulations to Hiland and Coach Dave Schlabach on winning the D3 State Championship, and to Coach Schlabach on a tremendous coaching career! Enjoy your retirement, Coach!They are so fun to watch and agree that it’s ridiculous that some completely shut things down all spring and summer then want to complain. One thing I like about Hiland and we saw It Saturday they play defense almost like it’s a football game and I am saying with every compliment intended. The area I am from the officials simply call games tighter and the kids are soft as butter. Heard the announcers say several times that OG was gonna have to adapt to the style the game was being called and never did and you could see the frustration early and never recovered. OG is very talented but the physicality of Hiland was just too much.
When you get into deep into the tournament, you notice that the officials allow more physical contact. Being strong with the ball becomes very important.
I dont know all of Dave's secrets, but 2 of them that he has shared are that "we intend to be the strongest team on the floor and the most skilled."
You get strong in the weight room and those kids work all year in there - even during the season. And they are ripped. And the skills thing comes from early teaching and a lot of repetition.
I have seen teams that Hiland saw in the tournament that were not familiar with them, get shell-shocked when they feel the ball and defensive pressure they put on. A few years ago they played, I think, an undefeated Wheelersburg in the regional who was optimistic coming in. After the first qtr it was like 22-4 and the game was over. But their coach said then, "Now we know that there is another level of play we need to get to." I thought that there is a coach who gets it. They played again this year and the Burg competed better. Look out for Wheelersburg! They are coming.
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Yes sir you can see the time they have spent in the weight room. It still amazes me the number of coaches that still dont lift and YES you should even lift during the season. Coaches numbers are almost stupid good lol...major props to him, the kids and you cannot forget the PARENTS AND COMMUNITY because in today’s world everyone wants to whine and complain instead of just letting a person do there darn job!
Some Hiland parents whine and complain too - they just keep it on the down low. Lol.
When they have their parents' meeting, the AD tells parents that they can only talk to coaches or administrators about direct welfare issues concerning their child. And it is made clear that you are not permitted to discuss playing time, position, role, or strategy. Maybe it has happened, but I have never heard of a Hiland parent complaining about the latter to a coach or administrator. It's a good policy, I think. Shuts down a lot of nonsense before it starts.
When the coach is Dave or Mark Schlabach, it helps tamp that stuff down because of the obvious absurdity of a parent telling those guys they dont know what they are doing and arent using Jenny or Johnny right.
I never had any reason to complain or question. My son played more and had a bigger role than I would have given him. My daughter played 4 years of varsity, was developed, and got what she earned. But I did hear some things from other parents over the years - whispered - that their Punkin should be at a different position, have a bigger role, etc. So, parents are parents no matter where you go.
Dave is a great man - on and off the court. You would have a hard time finding someone who respects him more than I do.
At the same time, he isnt infallible, and I'm sure almost every parent who had a kid go through there wanted to choke him to death a time or two. I know I did.
He does some pretty high-end motivational techniques that can cause a parent some headaches. He breaks kids down and builds them up in cycles. He will take each kid (maybe 3 or 4 at a time) through 2 or 3 of those cycles in a year, including during the season. He has them all in build up mode at tourney time.
I dont know exactly what he does, but the breakdown phase involves applying psychological and emotional pressure to get his players to a higher level of toughness, determination, and motivation. Then he heaps praise on them, is very encouraging, and is all positive in the buildup phase.
When your kid is in the breakdown phase, you have a very miserable and confused teen girl to deal with. And that was fine when there was no other crisis in the home, but if there was, you resented manufactured "basketball" stress as unnecessary.
He made a couple of bad decisions (IMO) during my time as a program parent. He listened, we didnt always end up agreeing completely, but when he needed to make corrections, he did. Cant ask more of a man than that.
My daughter played in 3 state championship games. How many parents can say that? There were many thrilling victories and several heart-breaking defeats. But 9 years out, that's not what is important. What he taught her was life skills and character that has helped her be a good and productive adult.
I wanted to choke the life out of him a couple times. I hugged him thousands of times. The truth is that for what he invested in my daughter and taught her, I owe him a debt I can never repay. So, I truly love that man.
At the same time, he isnt infallible, and I'm sure almost every parent who had a kid go through there wanted to choke him to death a time or two. I know I did.
He does some pretty high-end motivational techniques that can cause a parent some headaches. He breaks kids down and builds them up in cycles. He will take each kid (maybe 3 or 4 at a time) through 2 or 3 of those cycles in a year, including during the season. He has them all in build up mode at tourney time.
I dont know exactly what he does, but the breakdown phase involves applying psychological and emotional pressure to get his players to a higher level of toughness, determination, and motivation. Then he heaps praise on them, is very encouraging, and is all positive in the buildup phase.
When your kid is in the breakdown phase, you have a very miserable and confused teen girl to deal with. And that was fine when there was no other crisis in the home, but if there was, you resented manufactured "basketball" stress as unnecessary.
He made a couple of bad decisions (IMO) during my time as a program parent. He listened, we didnt always end up agreeing completely, but when he needed to make corrections, he did. Cant ask more of a man than that.
My daughter played in 3 state championship games. How many parents can say that? There were many thrilling victories and several heart-breaking defeats. But 9 years out, that's not what is important. What he taught her was life skills and character that has helped her be a good and productive adult.
I wanted to choke the life out of him a couple times. I hugged him thousands of times. The truth is that for what he invested in my daughter and taught her, I owe him a debt I can never repay. So, I truly love that man.
Blue Jay Fan
Well-known member
Competitive Balance numbers for the 2021 Div III girls state tournament: Ottawa Glandorf 0, Waynedale 0, Hiland 17 and Purcell marian 56. Hiland's CB numbers the last four years have been 17, 13, 14 and 9. Hiland would likely have been in Div IV instead of Div III the last three years without the CB numbers. This year's Div IV state champ Fort Loramie had a CB of 0. Does Hiland recruit? Don't know. Do they benefit from transfers????
Well, as far as I know, there were two girls that live outside the district that were on the 2020-21 team. The first one started at West Holmes, transferred in Jr High, and even though her mother moved to the west end of the county, she continued to open enroll. She was not an elite AAU player that transferred in late in her HS career, but rather a development kid since jr hi. The other one transferred from Garaway, after a coaching change there when she was a freshman or maybe a sophomore. As far as I know, every other kid on the team was from within the borders. But I don't know the families or history of all of those kids.
But my main point is that they are not recruiting elite AAU players to come onto the team - which is where competitive balance problems mainly arise from.
realball4468
Member
I liked what the OG coach said in the post game press conference. He said, "Coaches admire his program and what he has been able to accomplish". Gist of it. Yea, I think some admire the wins and championships but I think the majority admire his protection. He was able to run a demanding program there that most coaches can't run in other places. Look at Hiland's next door neighbor....Garaway...perfect example. Geoff Stevanus built the program with the help of David Borter (Dave Schlabach's current assistant), piled up almost 400 w's in 20 years....2 trips to columbus and last coach to win IVC outright other than Schlabach.....ran out of town in 1998-99 by parents. His protection ran out. Bardall had the girls program for 5 or 6 years. 2 trips to columbus. Ran out of town by parents. Now, garaway is on to it's 4th coach in the last 10 years.
Two programs a rock toss away with completely different cultures. Hats off to Dave and Dave for what they were able to accomplish in the last 30 years. Double hats off to the administration over the last 30 years for protecting them...from any crazy helicopter parents.
Two programs a rock toss away with completely different cultures. Hats off to Dave and Dave for what they were able to accomplish in the last 30 years. Double hats off to the administration over the last 30 years for protecting them...from any crazy helicopter parents.
leachracing
New member
Just to clarify, the one to open enroll from Garaway was there for all of high school. I believe started in eighth (or maybe seventh) grade.
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With some caution, I make the following comments. Garaway is the football program I root for and I have tons of friends that have coached, are coaching, and other employees of that district, as well as many people in the community and Pirate athletes.
There is truth in what you say. I do believe that there is more parental involvement, or, perhaps, interference over there. Running Stevanus out was the dumbest thing I ever saw. That is an outstanding man and coach.
I dont think Dave needed to be "protected" after, maybe, the first 4 or 5 years. You could see what he was doing and it was good. But I dont think the people/parents are much different at Hiland than at Garaway or anywhere else. They are perhaps less directly confrontive but if he was losing or abusive in some way, I'm sure that disapproval would have found an avenue of expression.
I think the best thing that the Hiland admin and AD do is at every preseason parents meeting, they tell you specifically what you can and cannot talk to coaches about. You can talk about general welfare issues of your child. You can not talk about playing time, role, position, offensive/defensive strategy, etc. If you try to go around the coach to the principal, super, or AD to talk about coaching judgment or decisions, they will not talk to you either.
They set a clear boundary, and I am not personally aware of anyone who has ever tested it. Probably someone has tried, but I am not aware of it. To me, this policy largely eliminates that nonsense.
Now, I'm not saying this was at Garaway, but I do know about a local all-Ohio player who played a few years ago for a verbally and emotionally abusive coach. She required 2 years of counseling to overcome her issues. Her parents and other parents got that coach sent packing - and I would have done the same thing. But the coach was a winner. Not on the scale of Dave, but still very successful. Those who were inside and alumni of the coach's program knew what was going on and most of them wanted him out. Others on the outside of the program defended him strongly and it caused a lot of hard feelings.
I guess my point is that one's perception of what's right/wrong, good/bad, truth/lies depends on one's perspective and how they are connected to the situation. FWIW