HIGH SCHOOL RANKINGS

[OCEagle]

Did a dump of the Flo rankings into a pivot table this morning just to see how it looks by state = number of top 20 ranked individuals, etc. As you would expect, Pa is at the top. Kind of surprised Ohio was at #4 overall in the rankings since there are very few in the Top 5 in total (2). Could also probably include Beric Jordan and Voinavich as "Ohio Wrestlers" , but that would open a whole new can of worms for New Jersey and Pa that bring wrestlers in from across the country. Of those in New Jersey, 6 are at Blair Academy - with 3 ranked at #3, 1 at #12 and 2 at #15. I didn't go look to see where they are from "originally". I only listed those with double digits ranked - but that equates to 183 of the 280 wrestlers ranked. 17 of the ranked wrestlers from Pa are seniors, while 11 of the 18 in Ohio are seniors. The populations in Pa and Ohio are almost exactly the same - so how is it that Pa has been able to generate so many top level wrestlers?

Is it possible for Ohio to close the gap? How? When you consider the proximity of New Jersey and Pa. to each other - and even throw in Ohio, that is a lot of top ranked wrestlers from a relatively small area of the country. Population of those 3 states is still much lower than that of California (by itself). Was Surprised Illinois was only at 13, but they do have 3 ranked #1 and 3 ranked #2 which made it seem like they had a lot more ranked wrestlers by just skimming through the rankings.

Anyway, only took about 20 minutes to do - and it somewhat answered my question on where Ohio is now at on the national scale. Tends to ebb and flow, but Pa. is always at the top. Probably should have tried to copy the table over as a picture. Never quite lines up when you enter it in:

Pennsylvania 52 4 ranked #1, 2 ranked #2; 4 ranked #3; 15 in Top 5
New Jersey 31 1 each ranked at #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 2 @ #6 and 4 @ #7
California 28 2 ranked at #1, 2 @ #4; 1 @ #5
Ohio 18 2 ranked in top 5
Minnesota 16 1 at #2; 2 at #4, 2 at #5
Iowa 13 1 ranked #1, 2 at #2, 1 each at #4 and #5
Illinois 13 3 at #1; 3 at #2
Wisconsin 12 3 at #3; 3 at #5

This looks better:

 

[OCEagle]

Also looked at all the commitments from the ranked wrestlers. 173 of the 280 show commitments. Michigan and Stanford have 7, Penn State 6, and Ohio State 3. Michigan has 2 #1 ranked recruits and a #3, #4, and 2 #5's. Penn State has no #1's, 3 #2's, and a #6, #16, and a #20. Ohio State has 1 each at #1, #5, and #10.

8 of the #1's have commitments. Three are freshman or soph. and have no commitments at this point. Only 1 senior #1 uncommitted - Jim Mullen at 285 in New Jersey. But just saw on Flo he is headed to Va. Tech.

 

[MPhillips]

More stats

NCAA National Champions by School (2012-22)
Penn State = 31
Cornell = 10
Ohio State = 9
Oklahoma State = 9
Iowa = 7
Missouri = 5
Illinois = 4
Minnesota = 4
NC State = 3
Arizona State = 2

NCAA National Champions by Home State (2012-22)
Pennsylvania = 21
Ohio = 10
New Jersey = 9
California = 7
New York = 7
Minnesota = 6
Iowa = 5
Maryland = 5
Missouri = 5
Michigan = 4

NCAA Runner’s Up by School (2012-22)
Penn State = 11
Iowa = 10
Ohio State = 8
Oklahoma State = 7
Michigan = 5
Minnesota = 5
Cornell = 4
Edinboro = 4
Lehigh = 4
NC State = 3

NCAA All-Americans by School (2012-22)
Penn State = 62
Iowa = 56
Oklahoma State = 50
Minnesota = 44
Ohio State = 44
Virginia Tech = 36
Cornell = 34
Missouri = 34
Michigan = 33
Nebraska =30

NCAA All-Americans by Home State (2012-22)
Pennsylvania = 137
Ohio = 86
New Jersey = 57
Illinois = 52
California = 46
Minnesota = 40
Michigan = 39
Iowa = 37
New York = 35
Missouri = 33

 

[Old142]

Did a dump of the Flo rankings into a pivot table this morning just to see how it looks by state = number of top 20 ranked individuals, etc. As you would expect, Pa is at the top. Kind of surprised Ohio was at number 3 overall in the rankings since there are very few in the Top 5 in total (2). Could also probably include Beric Jordan and Voinavich as "Ohio Wrestlers" , but that would open a whole new can of worms for New Jersey and Pa that bring wrestlers in from across the country. Of those in New Jersey, 6 are at Blair Academy - with 3 ranked at #3, at #12 and 2 at #15. I didn't go look to see where they are from "originally". I only listed those with double digits ranked - but that equates to 183 of the 280 wrestlers ranked. 17 of the ranked wrestlers from Pa are seniors, while 11 of the 18 in Ohio are seniors. The populations in Pa and Ohio are almost exactly the same - so how is it that Pa has been able to generate so many top level wrestlers?

Is it possible for Ohio to close the gap? How? When you consider the proximity of New Jersey and Pa. to each other - and even throw in Ohio, that is a lot of top ranked wrestlers from a relatively small area of the country. Population of those 3 states is still much lower than that of California (by itself). Was Surprised Illinois was only at 13, but they do have 3 ranked #1 and 3 ranked #2 which made it seem like they had a lot more ranked wrestlers by just skimming through the rankings.

Anyway, only took about 20 minutes to do - and it somewhat answered my question on where Ohio is now at on the national scale. Tends to ebb and flow, but Pa. is always at the top. Probably should have tried to copy the table over as a picture. Never quite lines up when you enter it in:

Pennsylvania 52 4 ranked #1, 2 ranked #2; 4 ranked #3; 15 in Top 5
New Jersey 31 1 each ranked at #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 2 @ #6 and 4 @ #7
California 28 2 ranked at #1, 2 @ #4; 1 @ #5
Ohio 18 2 ranked in top 5
Minnesota 16 1 at #2; 2 at #4, 2 at #5
Iowa 13 1 ranked #1, 2 at #2, 1 each at #4 and #5
Illinois 13 3 at #1; 3 at #2
Wisconsin 12 3 at #3; 3 at #5

This looks better:

View attachment 35035

PA Has always been ahead in youth participation, going back a LONG while. They have MANY MANY more "club" organizations than Ohio. They also have a storied history of Elite wrestlers giving back to the state in terms of clubs/organizations etc. As I've said before you can find a youth tournament during wrestling season in PA EVERY weekend from Erie to Philly. It's just more of a thing there, wrestling that is Maybe the fact they have many more colleges offering wrestling is also a tangible. Think about the history...with colleges like Slippery Rock ...Bloomsburg being in the top 10 of NCAA'S when no Ohio colleges were. Throw in Lehigh a perennial top 10 college in the 70's 80's ......1986 with Pennstate Bloomsburg and Lehigh all top 10 ...Ohio colleges? No where in the top 10. 1987 there were 5 ! PA Colleges in the top 10 of the NCAA tournament.....ZERO OHIO. This of course all BEFORE the Penn State recent decade of dominance. The history is there which creates interest which translates into success.

 

[OCEagle]

PA Has always been ahead in youth participation, going back a LONG while. They have MANY MANY more "club" organizations than Ohio. They also have a storied history of Elite wrestlers giving back to the state in terms of clubs/organizations etc. As I've said before you can find a youth tournament during wrestling season in PA EVERY weekend from Erie to Philly. It's just more of a thing there, wrestling that is Maybe the fact they have many more colleges offering wrestling is also a tangible. Think about the history...with colleges like Slippery Rock ...Bloomsburg being in the top 10 of NCAA'S when no Ohio colleges were. Throw in Lehigh a perennial top 10 college in the 70's 80's ......1986 with Pennstate Bloomsburg and Lehigh all top 10 ...Ohio colleges? No where in the top 10. 1987 there were 5 ! PA Colleges in the top 10 of the NCAA tournament.....ZERO OHIO. This of course all BEFORE the Penn State recent decade of dominance. The history is there which creates interest which translates into success.

Agree with all of that. The question is, does Ohio have a foundation where they could start to do the same with youth programs? Toledo area used to be very strong with wrestling talent. Now some of the top schools of the past - Rogers, St. Francis, Cardinal Stritch either don't have a wrestling program, or are very poor in participation.

To add to that - Toledo and Bowling Green dropped wrestling after Title IX. That coincided with the drop off in high school success in the Toledo area. Perrysburg is showing what interest and good coaching can do. Clay experienced that at various times, but decidedly so when Cubberly moved over to Clay. Looks like Justin Wharton is going hard after developing youth programs and youth interest. Saw where he had an event for boys and girls around 8 and younger - just to teach them about the sport, played games, had pizza - and no wrestling. Wants them to come back and try it at their pace. I think there has been substantial drop off at Lake Erie Wrestling, Firefox, and East Toledo WC. Others have popped up - especially the Hornets Nest in P'burg (for the Yellow Jackets) that houses Burnett Trained Wrestling.

I think you nailed it with the number of former Pa wrestlers that have come back to build programs and clubs. Not sure where Jordan is at now with his programs after retiring at Graham. Thatcher building a very good program with Crazy Goats - and probably others with Burnett Trained, etc. Pa also started "The Compound" franchises about a decade ago. Heard good and bad about them - but witnessed the "bad" side in a couple of tournaments where the coaches were pretty much best described as "insanely combative" - to the point of fist fights between them and the coaches of the teams they were wrestling. And that was at a 9U tournament.

I'm not nearly as informed on youth wrestling as most on this board. Just what I witnessed over the past few years with no involvement in the last 2 years.

 

[phase1]

Nebraska and UNC both had National finalists last year and neither are on your “Runners Up” list.

 

[Mr.wrsln2]

Easily more interest in Pa.Better coaches and cheerleaders on friday nite dual's!More tradition and passion in all parts of the state.

 

[darthmalice]

Easily more interest in Pa.Better coaches and cheerleaders on friday nite dual's!More tradition and passion in all parts of the state.

Lol, cheerleaders.

 

[snapspinscore]

I think, overall, the depth in Ohio has taken a huge hit. You still have top level guys coming through, its the 2-8th placers that I feel have taken a dramatic turn. I have no numbers to back this up, however, it does seem like we have a huge difference in Nationally Ranked guys, from say, 10-20 years ago. Is it because of lack of youth development? I don't know, seems like there are a lot of really good youth wrestlers still competing. Maybe I have over-exaggerated the drop off in depth and talent, does anyone else agree with this? If not, give me your perspective on how it has not changed.

 

[TakedownFor2]

I think, overall, the depth in Ohio has taken a huge hit. You still have top level guys coming through, its the 2-8th placers that I feel have taken a dramatic turn. I have no numbers to back this up, however, it does seem like we have a huge difference in Nationally Ranked guys, from say, 10-20 years ago. Is it because of lack of youth development? I don't know, seems like there are a lot of really good youth wrestlers still competing. Maybe I have over-exaggerated the drop off in depth and talent, does anyone else agree with this? If not, give me your perspective on how it has not changed.

Here’s ranked for those wondering… MatScouts vs FloWrestling. Both sites have 18 guys from Ohio ranked. I can not speak to what this looks to years past. However, of note, guys like Beric Jordan, Kael Voinovich, Carter Neves etc all were in Ohio and now are not and all nationally ranked.

MatScouts
106- NONE
113- NONE
120- Marcus Blaze 6th (Perrysburg)
126- Dillon Campbell 20th (Legacy Christian)
132- Omar Ayoub 8th (Dublin Coffman) / Jaxon Joy 16th (Wadsworth)
138- NONE
145- Brock Herman 10th (Brecksville) / Sam Cartella 14th (W. Reserve Academy) / Wynton Denkins 15th (Perrysburg)
152- NONE
160- Joey Blaze 2nd (Perrysburg) / Chris Earnest 17th (Wadsworth)
170- Jarrell Miller 14th (St Edward)
182- Luke Vanadia 8th (Brecksville)
195- Cam McDanel 7th (Teays Valley) / Myles Johnson 18th (Springboro)
220- Max Shulaw 7th (Columbus Desales) / Dylan Russo 9th (Olentangy Liberty) / Kyle Snider 10th (CVCA)
285- Aidan Fockler 9th (Mass Perry) / Josh Padilla 17th (Huber Hts Wayne)

FloWrestling
106- NONE
113- NONE
120 - Marcus Blaze 8th (Perrysburg)
126- Dillon Campbell 20th (Legacy Christian)
132- Omar Ayoub 7th (Dublin Coffman) / Jaxon Joy 18th (Wadsworth)
138- David McClleland 19th (Columbus Desales)
145- Brock Herman 10th (Brecksville) / Sam Cartella 11th (W. Reserve Academy) / Wynton Denkins 12th (Perrysburg)
152- NONE
160- Joey Blaze 2nd (Perrysburg)
170- Jarrell Miller 14th (St Edward)
182- Luke Vanadia 13th (Brecksville)
195- Cam McDanel 7th (Teays Valley) / Myles Johnson 9th (Springboro)
220- Max Shulaw 8th (Columbus Desales) / Dylan Russo 10th (Olentangy Liberty) / Kyle Snider 11th (CVCA) / Max Vanadia 20th (Brecksville)
285- Aidan Fockler 5th (Mass Perry)

 

[Old142]

I think, overall, the depth in Ohio has taken a huge hit. You still have top level guys coming through, its the 2-8th placers that I feel have taken a dramatic turn. I have no numbers to back this up, however, it does seem like we have a huge difference in Nationally Ranked guys, from say, 10-20 years ago. Is it because of lack of youth development? I don't know, seems like there are a lot of really good youth wrestlers still competing. Maybe I have over-exaggerated the drop off in depth and talent, does anyone else agree with this? If not, give me your perspective on how it has not changed.

I think wrestling overall has taken a hit, especially the last decade. I'm sure someone can likely "refute" that with numbers and statistical data ....BUT if you look closely at ALL the data I'll bet there are areas that support my belief. Potential reasons.....Video game surge since the 70's 80's ( Video armchair athletes) . Currently "woke" ness....the current generation just isnt as "tough" PERIOD. Boys think they can be girls vice versa....Jimmy decided it's easier to compete as Jane in the "girls" wrestling tournament....I know I know it's "rare" ...but the mentality to accept it or push it isn't. I'm going to guess a HUGE majority of participants in wrestling do so because there Dad competed....Uncle,maybe Grandpa. I don't think the current or upcoming generations are as capable or have the desire to embrace the sport based on the level of difficulty in succeeding. Covid didn't help either, no other sport can transmit many viruses easier. Once the toughest generation of them all continues to die off, Baby boomers and those before us .....things won't get any easier for sports like wrestling. I HOPE i'm wrong. Ok there you have it! Hit me with the " Get off my lawn !" accusations!!

 

[snapspinscore]

Here’s ranked for those wondering… MatScouts vs FloWrestling

MatScouts
106- NONE
113- NONE
120- Marcus Blaze 6th (Perrysburg)
126- Dillon Campbell 20th (Legacy Christian)
132- Omar Ayoub 8th (Dublin Coffman) / Jaxon Joy 16th (Wadsworth)
138- NONE
145- Brock Herman 10th (Brecksville) / Sam Cartella 14th (W. Reserve Academy) / Wynton Denkins 15th (Perrysburg)
152- NONE
160- Joey Blaze 2nd (Perrysburg) / Chris Earnest 17th (Wadsworth)
170- Jarrell Miller 14th (St Edward)
182- Luke Vanadia 8th (Brecksville)
195- Cam McDanel 7th (Teays Valley) / Myles Johnson 18th (Springboro)
220- Max Shulaw 7th (Columbus Desales) / Dylan Russo 9th (Olentangy Liberty) / Kyle Snider 10th (CVCA)
285- Aidan Fockler 9th (Mass Perry) / Josh Padilla 17th (Huber Hts Wayne)

FloWrestling
106- NONE
113- NONE
120 - Marcus Blaze 8th (Perrysburg)
126- Dillon Campbell 20th (Legacy Christian)
132- Omar Ayoub 7th (Dublin Coffman) / Jaxon Joy 18th (Wadsworth)
138- David McClleland 19th (Columbus Desales)
145- Brock Herman 10th (Brecksville) / Sam Cartella 11th (W. Reserve Academy) / Wynton Denkins 12th (Perrysburg)
152- NONE
160- Joey Blaze 2nd (Perrysburg)
170- Jarrell Miller 14th (St Edward)
182- Luke Vanadia 13th (Brecksville)
195- Cam McDanel 7th (Teays Valley) / Myles Johnson 9th (Springboro)
220- Max Shulaw 8th (Columbus Desales) / Dylan Russo 10th (Olentangy Liberty) / Kyle Snider 11th (CVCA) / Max Vanadia 20th (Brecksville)
285- Aidan Fockler 5th (Mass Perry)

I have seen the rankings, I follow pretty closely. We only have 1 guy inside the top 5. 10-15 years ago, we were putting multiple guys in the top 5 in the same weight class. We had multiple guys ranked #1 in the country, and we were pretty confidently the 2nd best wrestling state in America, behind only PA. Now, I am not so sure we are top 3 anymore. That may seem like a petty statement, but considering I truly believe we were the overwhelmingly #2 best state in America back in the day, its a tough pill to swallow, seeing us dip below NJ for sure, and maybe even states like Cali and NY. Hell, Michigan is probably deeper up top than Ohio, but they definitely still do not have the depth we currently have in Ohio.

 

[snapspinscore]

I think wrestling overall has taken a hit, especially the last decade. I'm sure someone can likely "refute" that with numbers and statistical data ....BUT if you look closely at ALL the data I'll bet there are areas that support my belief. Potential reasons.....Video game surge since the 70's 80's ( Video armchair athletes) . Currently "woke" ness....the current generation just isnt as "tough" PERIOD. Boys think they can be girls vice versa....Jimmy decided it's easier to compete as Jane in the "girls" wrestling tournament....I know I know it's "rare" ...but the mentality to accept it or push it isn't. I'm going to guess a HUGE majority of participants in wrestling do so because there Dad competed....Uncle,maybe Grandpa. I don't think the current or upcoming generations are as capable or have the desire to embrace the sport based on the level of difficulty in succeeding. Covid didn't help either, no other sport can transmit many viruses easier. Once the toughest generation of them all continues to die off, Baby boomers and those before us .....things won't get any easier for sports like wrestling. I HOPE i'm wrong. Ok there you have it! Hit me with the " Get off my lawn !" accusations!!

I agree with pretty much everything you said here. Except, I do not think wrestling overall has taken a dip, I just think depth has taken a dip. The guys up top are better than they have ever been in the history of wrestling. Yianni D and his technique, would major Dan Gable, minimum. The sport of wrestling has come a LONG way since its hay day (peak amount of college programs). I am talking strictly technique and overall physical capability of its athletes. It is still insanely hard to become a D1 AA. You may not have as many teams, but the top guys are all going to find a team, regardless.

Now, I do agree with you and find your point interesting of the sport being passed down from previous generations. It is definitely worrisome to think where the sport will be in 25 years. You are right, the toughness of the world is being sucked out of kids at an alarming right, and I am not sure as many kids are going to want to grind this sport out in the future. However, that won't effect only wrestling, a lot of physical contact sports will take a hit for this culture shift we are seeing right now.

 

[MPhillips]

it does seem like we have a huge difference in Nationally Ranked guys, from say, 10-20 years ago.

Do we (Ohio) have a huge difference in college AA's from 10-20 yrs ago? Why would we try to make a point using rankings when we have real life data that shows results? Or are we not using college as a, "measuring stick: and if not, what are we using?
I've been away from the youth scene for some years now but there seems to be plenty of youth clubs around and quite a few, "elite" youth clubs in and around CBUS; CP, Miron, Crazy Goats, CWC, Pursuit.

I don't think the current or upcoming generations are as capable or have the desire to embrace the sport based on the level of difficulty in succeeding. ....Once the toughest generation of them all continues to die off, Baby boomers and those before us

I don't disagree with your post, although the generations before us didn't think we (Boomers) were tough enough either. My 'ol man was born in '32' he was badass, unless he compared himself to the, 'Greatest Generation' and then... they were, 'badass.'

I often say, "the world is upside down" but is it just upside down from my perspective? Does a 17yo or a 25yo think the world is upside down?
I'm not sure.

Ebb and flow, ebb and flow...

 

[Old142]

I don't disagree with your post, although the generations before us didn't think we (Boomers) were tough enough either. My 'ol man was born in '32' he was badass, unless he compared himself to the, 'Greatest Generation' and then... they were, 'badass.'

I often say, "the world is upside down" but is it just upside down from my perspective? Does a 17yo or a 25yo think the world is upside down?
I'm not sure.

Ebb and flow, ebb and flow........

There are distinct differences however in the here and now when comparing generations and differences which IMO change the expectations of "generations" and ultimately their "toughness and fortitude". I included generations "before" baby boomers as defining them as "tough". We "idolized " Men who went to war for our freedom, we revered them, their "toughness" was never in question, what it took their sacrifice was incredibly honorable. We stood proud for the National Anthem ( Before every wrestling match) ...the Pledge of Allegiance( Grade School etc) Glorifying our Country was paramount in movies...life. You think the current generations have that same adornment ...respect for Baby boomers, veterans our country etc? I dont know how you could say yes with a straight face... How many G.I Joe's are they selling nowadays? You think if there was a "draft" right now, these Millinials would put down their joysticks for fatigues and real weapons for "Freedom"? Ehhhh I vehemently disagree. There are no longer JFK Democrats, these are what can I get for free Democrats that others pay for. Toughness has dwindled considerably, of course there are exceptions but that doesn't change the validity of my opinion. And yes I think this will eventually, and already is diminishing those willing to participate and pay the dues necessary too succeed in a sport such as wrestling. Change is always inevitable, but the changes we see now is not building fortitude in the least, it's creating the exact opposite.

 

[MPhillips]

@Old142 I wasn't looking nor am I interested in changing the "validity" of anything you wrote. We are not as, "tough" as those who came before us is what I said.
There are a myriad of reasons why which isn't really worth the time.

I was more curious why we are measuring our HS wrestlers according to rankings and why is that the bar we are using?

 

[TakedownFor2]

@Old142 I wasn't looking nor am I interested in changing the "validity" of anything you wrote. We are not as, "tough" as those who came before us is what I said.
There are a myriad of reasons why which isn't really worth the time.

I was more curious why we are measuring our HS wrestlers according to rankings and why is that the bar we are using?

Agree.

The era 10-15 years ago in Ohio was special. Super hard to compare the two.

Graham Teams
Eds Teams
Monroeville Teams

All these programs had multiple nationally ranked kids.

What sticks out is now Graham has 0, Ed's has 1... Thats bonkers to me. Both programs REALLY good too. Just goes to show the emphasis on National Ranking isn't the end all be all if you ask me.

 

[Old142]

@Old142 I wasn't looking nor am I interested in changing the "validity" of anything you wrote. We are not as, "tough" as those who came before us is what I said.
There are a myriad of reasons why which isn't really worth the time.

I was more curious why we are measuring our HS wrestlers according to rankings and why is that the bar we are using?

"I was more curious why we are measuring our HS wrestlers according to rankings and why is that the bar we are using?"

What "bar" method would you use? I mean it is the most logical, no method is foolproof thats why there are "upsets". Sometimes the less talented guy wins, albeit rarely. It's as valid a method as possible IMO. #1 Is undefeated and beats #2 and #3 ...then loses to #4 but there was a "controversial call" maybe loses by a penalty point ....but #4 lost to #2 ....#12 beats #3 but has 5 more losses? ANYONE can rank, they all have access to 95% of the same information, so I don't hold any 1 ranking person in high regard.

 

[MPhillips]

"I was more curious why we are measuring our HS wrestlers according to rankings and why is that the bar we are using?"

What "bar" method would you use?

We're in the same book just different chapters.

Why would we try to make a point using rankings when we have real life data that shows results? Or are we not using college as a, "measuring stick: and if not, what are we using?

I'm measuring Ohio's HS wrestlers by college results in comparison to other states HS wrestlers by their college results and saying Ohio is still a really good wrestling state.
We aren't PA, but we aren't NJ either...

OSU wrestle offs coming on soon.

 

[galewrestling]

Bringing generation and politics into wrestling just doesn't make sense. Unless you say the generational and political views of Ohio kids is the problem, because kids from Pennsylvania seem to be doing just fine in the sport (as this thread shows). There is never an "easy" solution and blaming kids on not being tough is just plain lazy, imo. I think there are a lot of other factors that should be considered, back in the 70's/80's kids like me played several sports and I LOVED playing them. Now a days kids are forced to pick their favorite sport in grade school and parents push them to stupid levels, like forcing an 8 year old to puke so he can make weight at districts. The burn out levels I have seen over the last 20 years of coaching has sky rocketed.

My son was/is an amazing athlete and was a very good wrestler in youth, beating many kids that were/would be state champs/placers. He had numerous setbacks in high school which derailed him with wrestling and he also didn't have the drive for it. Some people called him soft for not pushing through all his issues, but he turned his drive towards school turning down offers to play sports in college because he wanted to focus solely on school. If adults keep telling their kids that they are soft over and over and over, eventually they will believe you and just give up. Breaking a kids will is not always the best way to motivate them.

just my 2 cents

 

[Old142]

Bringing generation and politics into wrestling just doesn't make sense. Unless you say the generational and political views of Ohio kids is the problem, because kids from Pennsylvania seem to be doing just fine in the sport (as this thread shows). There is never an "easy" solution and blaming kids on not being tough is just plain lazy, imo. I think there are a lot of other factors that should be considered, back in the 70's/80's kids like me played several sports and I LOVED playing them. Now a days kids are forced to pick their favorite sport in grade school and parents push them to stupid levels, like forcing an 8 year old to puke so he can make weight at districts. The burn out levels I have seen over the last 20 years of coaching has sky rocketed.

My son was/is an amazing athlete and was a very good wrestler in youth, beating many kids that were/would be state champs/placers. He had numerous setbacks in high school which derailed him with wrestling and he also didn't have the drive for it. Some people called him soft for not pushing through all his issues, but he turned his drive towards school turning down offers to play sports in college because he wanted to focus solely on school. If adults keep telling their kids that they are soft over and over and over, eventually they will believe you and just give up. Breaking a kids will is not always the best way to motivate them.

just my 2 cents

Some parents always pushed kids, then now and in the future. As for PA doing just fine in the sport, has nothing to do with the discussion. "Some" kids are still " tough" but the numbers willing to do what it takes to succeed in a sport as tough as wrestling are dwindling, and IMO will continue to do so. If you want to disagree or ignore prior generations had much tougher situations to exist, consequently were much tougher, I'd like to know what "changes" today compared to the prior generations before them that makes them still "tough"? Free College? Video games ? Cell phones? Didnt have cell phones they spend too much times on and Video games...Obesity has gone up for kids teens about 22% + since the 70's 80's. The only thing "lazy" is the current generations compared to those before them, generally speaking. I also would never give a lot of credibility to someone calling their son an "amazing" athlete followed by excuses. It sounds like you're more upset that someone called your "son" soft ...than anything else. I also don't know if there is an abundance of people calling kids "soft" nowadays ..in person? .....I will agree that "not having the drive for it" in wrestling will certainly make things more difficult to succeed...along with talent etc.

 

[galewrestling]

Some parents always pushed kids, then now and in the future. As for PA doing just fine in the sport, has nothing to do with the discussion. "Some" kids are still " tough" but the numbers willing to do what it takes to succeed in a sport as tough as wrestling are dwindling, and IMO will continue to do so. If you want to disagree or ignore prior generations had much tougher situations to exist, consequently were much tougher, I'd like to know what "changes" today compared to the prior generations before them that makes them still "tough"? Free College? Video games ? Cell phones? Didnt have cell phones they spend too much times on and Video games...Obesity has gone up for kids teens about 22% + since the 70's 80's. The only thing "lazy" is the current generations compared to those before them, generally speaking. I also would never give a lot of credibility to someone calling their son an "amazing" athlete followed by excuses. It sounds like you're more upset that someone called your "son" soft ...than anything else. I also don't know if there is an abundance of people calling kids "soft" nowadays ..in person? .....I will agree that "not having the drive for it" in wrestling will certainly make things more difficult to succeed...along with talent etc.

Man, you are just a horrible human being aren't you, if you must know my son had a career ending injury. You act like just because kids aren't great wrestlers that it is because they are soft and lazy. People like you that are win at all cost type of people are what chases most average kids away from sports. You equating being tough to being good at a sport just doesn't make any sense. Also generalizing that an entire generation is flat out lazy, I don't want or need your "credit".

 

[WGTJ]

Man, you are just a horrible human being aren't you, if you must know my son had a career ending injury. You act like just because kids aren't great wrestlers that it is because they are soft and lazy. People like you that are win at all cost type of people are what chases most average kids away from sports. You equating being tough to being good at a sport just doesn't make any sense. Also generalizing that an entire generation is flat out lazy, I don't want or need your "credit".

You are wasting your time.

 

[galewrestling]

You are wasting your time.

Yea you are right . I will drop it and get things back on topic.

 

[snapspinscore]

We're in the same book just different chapters.



I'm measuring Ohio's HS wrestlers by college results in comparison to other states HS wrestlers by their college results and saying Ohio is still a really good wrestling state.
We aren't PA, but we aren't NJ either...

OSU wrestle offs coming on soon.

Like I said, we still have those top guys that will go on to AA in college. I am not saying that Ohio is a bad wrestling state, I did, however, say that we were an overwhelming choice for #2 behind PA just 10-20 years ago, and now we are not. The depth in our state has taken a big hit, imo.

"We aren't PA, but we aren't NJ either..."

You are right, we are not NJ either, they have passed us. Here is a link for 2022 NCAA tournament qualifiers by state. https://www.fancowrestling.com/stats-on-all-330-qualifiers-for-the-2022-ncaa-championships/

 

[1$’s 2¢]

Man, you are just a horrible human being aren't you, if you must know my son had a career ending injury. You act like just because kids aren't great wrestlers that it is because they are soft and lazy. People like you that are win at all cost type of people are what chases most average kids away from sports. You equating being tough to being good at a sport just doesn't make any sense. Also generalizing that an entire generation is flat out lazy, I don't want or need your "credit".

Kids today are soft compared to the Four Yorkshiremen:

(I think of this sketch whenever somebody complains that succeeding generations are soft.)

(P.S. I am sorry to learn of your son's injury and hope he is thriving at life.)

 

[MPhillips]

You are right, we are not NJ either, they have passed us. Here is a link for 2022 NCAA tournament qualifiers by state. https://www.fancowrestling.com/stats-on-all-330-qualifiers-for-the-2022-ncaa-championships/

I love charts! And the board needs some discourse. Cheers...

NCAA All-Americans by Home State (2012-22)
Pennsylvania = 137
Ohio = 86
New Jersey = 57
Illinois = 52
California = 46
Minnesota = 40
Michigan = 39
Iowa = 37
New York = 35
Missouri = 33

 

[Old142]

Man, you are just a horrible human being aren't you, if you must know my son had a career ending injury. You act like just because kids aren't great wrestlers that it is because they are soft and lazy. People like you that are win at all cost type of people are what chases most average kids away from sports. You equating being tough to being good at a sport just doesn't make any sense. Also generalizing that an entire generation is flat out lazy, I don't want or need your "credit".

So which is it for your son the "amazing" wrestler right from his parents mouth....He "didn't have the drive" ? He "turned down offers to play other sports " ? What happened to the "career ending injury"? But he "had numerous setbacks" ..?? Again wasn't it the "career ending injury" ? He was an "amazing athlete" as a "youth"? He "beat many would be state champs placers" ? When he was a "youth"? He also "didnt have the drive" ?/ Due to the "career ending injury " ?? You're in LALA land...up a creek without a paddle etc etc. Please listen to yourself .Get a grip on reality.

 

[LucMurphy134]

So which is it for your son the "amazing" wrestler right from his parents mouth....He "didn't have the drive" ? He "turned down offers to play other sports " ? What happened to the "career ending injury"? But he "had numerous setbacks" ..?? Again wasn't it the "career ending injury" ? He was an "amazing athlete" as a "youth"? He "beat many would be state champs placers" ? When he was a "youth"? He also "didnt have the drive" ?/ Due to the "career ending injury " ?? You're in LALA land...up a creek without a paddle etc etc. Please listen to yourself .Get a grip on reality.

SMH OLD142, respectfully, take your own advice and please listen to yourself. You are a guy that has admitted is no longer involved in the sport, yet never misses a chance to diminish the accomplishments of a kid or in this case a parent. I get it, everything was tougher back in the day. My Dad used to call my generation soft because he wrestled on horse hair mats. My Grandfather called him soft because he went to college and wrestled rather than fighting in WW2. My Great Grandfather probably called my Grandfather soft because he didn’t hop on a boat in Ireland with $8 in his pocket to sail to America…. And I’m sure his buddies called him soft for leaving and not toughening out the potato famine. That’s the way it is, and always has been.

The truth is, wrestling today at all levels has never been better. Go find videos on youtube from the NCAAS in the 60’s….hell, go watch videos of Gable in ’72, or the 1980 NCAAs. Then go watch Burroughs, Taylor or Sadulaev. Athletes today at all levels have exponentially better access to coaching, better strength training, better nutrition, etc., etc. The sport evolves. Things change, and society evolves. Always will.

 

[Old142]

SMH OLD142, respectfully, take your own advice and please listen to yourself. You are a guy that has admitted is no longer involved in the sport, yet never misses a chance to diminish the accomplishments of a kid or in this case a parent. I get it, everything was tougher back in the day. My Dad used to call my generation soft because he wrestled on horse hair mats. My Grandfather called him soft because he went to college and wrestled rather than fighting in WW2. My Great Grandfather probably called my Grandfather soft because he didn’t hop on a boat in Ireland with $8 in his pocket to sail to America…. And I’m sure his buddies called him soft for leaving and not toughening out the potato famine. That’s the way it is, and always has been.

The truth is, wrestling today at all levels has never been better. Go find videos on youtube from the NCAAS in the 60’s….hell, go watch videos of Gable in ’72, or the 1980 NCAAs. Then go watch Burroughs, Taylor or Sadulaev. Athletes today at all levels have exponentially better access to coaching, better strength training, better nutrition, etc., etc. The sport evolves. Things change, and society evolves. Always will.

Respectfully I give you zero respect, your response as usual didn't change the validity of my claim at all. Since some of the best youth coaches in Ohio and a few others and myself have had several discussions on my premise, and wholeheartedly agree you'll have to forgive me if I see you as the same knucklehead with nothing to refute my claims with any substance. As for diminishing "kids" ....you think they're here listening? GTFOH you clown. Who have I diminished? I stand by what I said, I dont know any parent of ELITE wrestlers in my circle that tell each other what an "amazing" wrestler my son was at 7 years old? LOL Then rattles off several reasons why they didn't continue ...NONE saying "career injury" until they went fishing . Get lost you bozo..you got nothing.