Government Effect on Healthcare

Yorktown

Well-known member
Rights.. as in there is a human right to health care.. Complete nonsense.
No one has the right to make someone else pay for their well being/health.

All individuals have a right to seek out the best health care they can obtain. It is an individual responsibility to maintain ones own health.

The most insidious part of 100% provided government health care is the government takes away your right to seek the best heath care.
In the end you get the worst health care forced on you by bureaucrats.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Rights.. as in there is a human right to health care.. Complete nonsense.
No one has the right to make someone else pay for their well being/health.

All individuals have a right to seek out the best health care they can obtain. It is an individual responsibility to maintain ones own health.

The most insidious part of 100% provided government health care is the government takes away your right to seek the best heath care.
In the end you get the worst health care forced on you by bureaucrats.
As an American, I'm just fine with my tax dollars financing a MINIMUM standard of care for all CITIZENS, a la "the Free Clinic". Equal medical service is not an "inalienable right".

One can pursue that with their own self-paid private insurance. The subsidizing of private health insurance through an income tax scam is just plain wrong.
 

SWMCinci

Well-known member
If you want to lower the cost of ANY commodity, get government out of it. Costs of medical care rose geometrically after the creation of Medicare and Medicaid. Costs of a college education rose geometrically after the creation of the Pell Grant program and student loans.

If there is a market, private enterprise will address it. The construction industry seems to be able to address everything from low-cost dwellings to mansions. Automobile companies address everything from basic transportation to luxury automobiles. Electronics manufacturers create everything frm low-cost personal devices to super-computers......

I'm a little different than Cabe, I don't think the federal government has a place in this area. State and local? I'm a little more open, especially if private enterprise hasn't stepped in because there is no addressable market. But I'm of a mind that the federal government can encourage private entities to do things by making them write-offs on their P&L and tax statements.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Rights.. as in there is a human right to health care.. Complete nonsense.
No one has the right to make someone else pay for their well being/health.

All individuals have a right to seek out the best health care they can obtain. It is an individual responsibility to maintain ones own health.

The most insidious part of 100% provided government health care is the government takes away your right to seek the best heath care.
In the end you get the worst health care forced on you by bureaucrats.
Do you oppose insurance pooling of risk then?
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
"Good read..."

LMAO

The author actually references Ayn Rand, unironically.

Imagine if I posted a link about why socialized medicine was just totes awesome, and my "argument" consisted of an op-ed written by a surgeon for some publication like Jacobin Magazine. Would you take it seriously? No? Why not?
As usual, you've refuted no points and poked fun at one quote that essentially says doctors won't want to practice in system where their autonomy has been forcibly taken away.

Not really that extreme of an argument.

It must be boring being so smart you have no wothwhile opinions actual ideas about anything. I seriously doubt you even read it.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
There's nothing to "refute". You posted a joke link.
You aren't the authority of "joke links". You barely squeeze out coherent thoughts. It's a physician's opinion of the state of health care. Who cares what site it's on.

This is simply your strawman for having no substsnce to draw on for the health care debate. As usual, you have no ideas.
 

OhioBobcatFan06

Well-known member
Do you oppose insurance pooling of risk then?
Insurance should give consumers the option of exactly what they want covered.

You want ambulance rides covered, you pay X amount to join with others who want that coverage.
You want MRIs on surgeries covered, you join with others who want that coverage
You want women’s contraception covered, you join with others who want that covered.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
😂😂😂

It's extremely common for people to post things from places like the Cato Institute, or Breitbart, or the Heritage Foundation, or whatever, and present it like it's supposed to be some sort of "compelling read". Look, I'm very glad you found an op-ed that matches the way you feel. I'm sure that's very comforting. Congratulations. That said, I see absolutely no reason to dignify it with anything more than peals of laughter.
Nobody cares what you choose to dignify. You aren't taken seriosuly.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
This gets at the fundamental crux of it : Either you view those things as a right or you don't. If you view things like that as a right, any discussion outside of socialized medicine is basically nonsense. If you don't view those things as a right, any discussion of single-payer socialized medicine is basically nonsense. It's pretty much impossible to compromise on that. It's pretty hard to have a "maybe, sort of a right, depending" stance.
To my point that you didn't read what I posted. Clearly, government involvment in health care is infringing on your "right" to get health care. So clearly there is an argument that universal, state sponsored health care, is not the only means to provide that right in an efficient and cost effective way. Unless you simply don't want efficiency or cost effectiveness. That's exactly what the Ayn Rand quote that was in the article meant.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
I skimmed it fully, which was more than it deserved. There is an argument, I just don't take it seriously.
Then you are admitting you have no knowledge of how the system works and simply want to implement your ideological "solution". Why should anyone take you seriosuly.
 

eastside_purple

Well-known member
Insurance should give consumers the option of exactly what they want covered.

You want ambulance rides covered, you pay X amount to join with others who want that coverage.
You want MRIs on surgeries covered, you join with others who want that coverage
You want women’s contraception covered, you join with others who want that covered.
The issue with that is you would create an expensive high risk pool that would be unsustainable since the young and healthy would opt out of those coverages in favor of more basic coverage with much lower premiums. If Trump guts Medicare, those seniors on fixed income will be spending nearly all their income on insurance premiums.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Pretty evident that with healthcare timeliness/high quality = higher costs while less expensive (i.e. socialized) = far less timely/convenient. Insurance does not equal healthcare. Insurance is a third party middle man that tries to weasel out of paying as much as possible while sticking it to the young and healthy to the cost benefit of the elderly and sick.

Insurance "options" for coverage isn't a tenable solution as the trade-off for giving the young and healthy cheap and basic insurance would be high-risk pools for the elderly and sick that would equate to astronomical premiums. Being elderly or sick would equate to having theoretical access to care but being guaranteed to spend a huge amount of money and probably taking on sizable debt to acquire it.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
I randomly happened upon some nonsense that was posted by some bumpkin to stroke his fragile ego. There's no "debate", and it would take a lot of audacity to use that word in this context. I simply decided to laugh. 🤷‍♂️ 😂
The Mud way of arguing.

1. Attack the source (even though he didn't read it)
2. Attack the credibility of the OP (even though knows nothing about them)
3. Personal attacks

You really are nothing but a waste of time.
 

Altor

Well-known member
I randomly happened upon some nonsense that was posted by some bumpkin to stroke his fragile ego. There's no "debate", and it would take a lot of audacity to use that word in this context. I simply decided to laugh. 🤷‍♂️ 😂
Nothing random about it. You chose to come to a debate board and open a thread. But, instead of simply closing the browser when it doesn't interest you, you chose to tell everybody how it doesn't interest you. At least the other guy came out and said that he is only here to troll.
 

SWMCinci

Well-known member
…….
Insurance "options" for coverage isn't a tenable solution as the trade-off for giving the young and healthy cheap and basic insurance would be high-risk pools for the elderly and sick that would equate to astronomical premiums. Being elderly or sick would equate to having theoretical access to care but being guaranteed to spend a huge amount of money and probably taking on sizable debt to acquire it.
The government system couldn't even make it work by mandating coverage among all potential members of the insurance pool without MASSIVE additional revenues generated by taxing people not even using the system. Having young and old in the pool was simply not enough to cover the costs.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
The Mud way of arguing.

1. Attack the source (even though he didn't read it)
2. Attack the credibility of the OP (even though knows nothing about them)
3. Personal attacks

You really are nothing but a waste of time.
I rather think that he did read it, realized that he couldn't refute it cogently, and then pretended that it was a joke because that looked to him to be his best option.

You are absolutely right that NotJerad is a waste of time, though. I can't dispute that one.
 
There was no "source" to attack, the OP has no demonstrated "credibility" to attack, and you can die mad about it. I don't really care.
Clearly you do care. Pretty silly claim here.

Also, you're blocked. I am not "Mud". Into the troll bin you go. I'm sorry that you're such a fragile snowflake that you felt no other recourse than to jump on fish's troll train, but I'm not going to entertain it.
Surely you see the irony in your post here. Whether or not you are said person, blocking everyone who mentions it (followed every time by the drama queen announcement) isn't a great look. Calling somone a snowflake in the same breath just adds to the comedy TBH.


Addressing me is a privilege, and you lost it. :rolleyes:
Amazing how narcissistic and petty some of you can be.
These two lines in the same post also brought the LOL.
 

winbypin

Well-known member
There was no "source" to attack, the OP has no demonstrated "credibility" to attack, and you can die mad about it. I don't really care.

Also, you're blocked. I am not "Mud". Into the troll bin you go. I'm sorry that you're such a fragile snowflake that you felt no other recourse than to jump on fish's troll train, but I'm not going to entertain it. Addressing me is a privilege, and you lost it. :rolleyes:

Amazing how narcissistic and petty some of you can be.

All of your posts have basically come off like this, all because I dared to find it funny :


So sorry I didn't stop to kiss your rear end, as is the custom in the resident circle jerk that you're used to.

Have a nice life, or not, or whatever. 😆 😆 😆
Good to see you still enjoy showing your lady parts to everyone.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
I rather think that he did read it, realized that he couldn't refute it cogently, and then pretended that it was a joke because that looked to him to be his best option.

You are absolutely right that NotJerad is a waste of time, though. I can't dispute that one.
Perhaps. He's clearly trying to hijack the thread to make it all about him and his feelings to take the focus on the topic at hand.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
The hilarious part is he thinks he's clever when all he does is show what a tremendous PoS he is without a single worthwhile thought in his tiny head.
My diagnosis of Jerad Mudd is fragile high self-esteem.


 
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