GCL South Home & Away Scheduling Worth Considering?

I

Independence

Active member
I remember at least on year in the 1990's, Elder played Moeller twice in the same year (home & away) to fill their schedule. Has there been any consideration of making this a standard scheduling practice in the GCL South for all 4 teams given the difficulty of filling a 10 game schedule? The recent trend of having to resort to playing international football academy schools seems ridiculous. Any thoughts on pro's and con's?
 
 
I think 4 games makes sense in today’s environment. I know some on here have floated the idea of 6 games (like basketball), but I think that would dilute the games. I’m extremely practical, but it would just be kinda dull with 6 GCL games.
 
Is the idea that the extra game would or would not count towards the league standings? Similar to the way that it is sometimes done in CFB.
 
GCL - INDY Catholic - Cleveland Catholic - KY Catholic need to start with an alliance to avoid playing border teams or IMG type teams. I like where this is going as a conversation.
 
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What does next yr’s sched look like?

Lincoln
Cathedral?
?
Eds
Ryle
X
Moe
?
?
LS

Since WW is joining the ECC, I’m assuming they’re out. There’s zero chance Clearwater comes back, I don’t think either team left feeling much respect toward the other after that game. Football North seems like they’re cool with playing whenever, so I would think E keeps them on the schedule to fill out a full 10 games, if necessary.

At one point a few yrs ago, a series with Moody was almost set, but fell apart. Wonder if they can get that resurrected.
 
Omar said:
I think 4 games makes sense in today’s environment. I know some on here have floated the idea of 6 games (like basketball), but I think that would dilute the games. I’m extremely practical, but it would just be kinda dull with 6 GCL games.
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This is what I want to happen. I know it's far-fetched, but I'd rather see La Salle play Elder twice than look across the field at empty stands as we host a team from Massachusetts.

I also like the idea of expansion. CovCath would be a nice fit in all sports, but I'm not sure the KHSAA would approve or if the district/regional skeds down there could be compatible. Not sure who else could join, but I'm not keen on Louisville/Cleveland/Indy teams.

Yet, all of this is a pipe dream.
 
Read on the main football board that the OHSAA is moving towards not counting games against these Academy/Canada type teams. Would be a pretty blatant slap in the face to the private schools who already struggle to fill a 10-game schedule.

Winton Woods is definitely off. They renewed their series with LaSalle I believe for week 3.

I wouldn't mind a rotating 4th GCL game, assuming that was the only option. Would just be odd seeing a home-away game especially for the three teams in R4. You could potentially play the same team 3x in one season if both were to make the playoffs. I know Milford and Loveland played twice this year, which was a complete joke.
 
Since it hasn’t been done in 25 years, I think it’s safe to assume it’s not going to happen.
You could potentially play someone a third time in the playoffs.
 
adselder09 said:
Read on the main football board that the OHSAA is moving towards not counting games against these Academy/Canada type teams. Would be a pretty blatant slap in the face to the private schools who already struggle to fill a 10-game schedule.
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They love rules so much, why don't they make some rules about having to schedule schools from certain leagues within the city?

It's just becoming impossible to schedule local games.
 
adselder09 said:
Read on the main football board that the OHSAA is moving towards not counting games against these Academy/Canada type teams. Would be a pretty blatant slap in the face to the private schools who already struggle to fill a 10-game schedule.

Winton Woods is definitely off. They renewed their series with LaSalle I believe for week 3.

I wouldn't mind a rotating 4th GCL game, assuming that was the only option. Would just be odd seeing a home-away game especially for the three teams in R4. You could potentially play the same team 3x in one season if both were to make the playoffs. I know Milford and Loveland played twice this year, which was a complete joke.
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It’s not my preference to deviate away from 3 GCL games, but what options are out there to fill a 10 game schedule? It’s like squeezing blood from a stone at this point.
 
adselder09 said:
Read on the main football board that the OHSAA is moving towards not counting games against these Academy/Canada type teams. Would be a pretty blatant slap in the face to the private schools who already struggle to fill a 10-game schedule.
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It depends. On page 10 of the 2019 OHSAA Football Manual, it states “Note: Beginning in 2022, only contests played against NFHS Member State Association schools or Affiliate Association schools will count towards the Harbin Ratings.”
On pages 106-107 of the 2019-2020 NFHS Handbook, the high school athletic associations of nine Canadian provinces are listed as being affiliate members: Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, Ontario, Quebec, and Saskatchewan. Only Prince Edward Island is not listed as being an affiliate member.
Thus, if those nine associations continue to be affiliate members of the NFHS going into the 2022 school year, then games played against Canadian high schools that are members of those associations will continue to count towards the Harbin Ratings.
The same goes for American teams. The thing is, I have no idea if (1) Football North, Clearwater Academy, IMG Academy, and other teams of their ilk are members of an NFHS association or affiliate association, and (2) if such a team currently is not a member, is it even eligible to become a member, and, if so, does it have any desire to become a member?

As for the Milford/Loveland situation, from the 9/13 Enquirer:
"Though it was technically a non-conference game due to a scheduling quirk, Milford lit up Loveland in the Skyline Chili Crosstown Showdown battle between Eastern Cincinnati Conference (ECC) rivals Friday night, 47-13.
Oddly, the pair will play again in two weeks, this time at Loveland in what will officially be an ECC game."
 
OldSchoolPanther said:
They love rules so much, why don't they make some rules about having to schedule schools from certain leagues within the city?

It's just becoming impossible to schedule local games.
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With over 700 schools, and 80% public it'll never happen. Eventually the OHSAA is going to have to decide to separate completely or finally tell these whiny public schools No.
 
adselder09 said:
With over 700 schools, and 80% public it'll never happen. Eventually the OHSAA is going to have to decide to separate completely or finally tell these whiny public schools No.
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A public/pvt split won’t work bc there’s not enough pvt schools in each region to make a regular season schedule work. And you can’t have all these schools shuttle back and forth bw Cincy and Cleveland/Akron.
 
Potential positives from each GCL South team playing each other twice during the regular season every year:

1. Goes a long way towards solving the persistent scheduling issues every year.
2. On average, more competitive games which is great for both the fans and players
3. Higher game attendance = more $ for the respective schools.
4. Less travel and related expenses. Also, more local games make more games accessible for fans to attend.
5. As a league, we’re less reliant on public schools to fill a 10 game schedule. We assume more control of our own destiny.

Regarding the possibility that two teams may play each other a third time in the playoffs - what’s so bad about that? When the Bengals play the Steelers in the playoffs, I think most fans love it. It enhances the rivalry, it doesn’t diminish it.

I really think the idea deserves serious consideration. The scheduling issue is only going to get worse with the loss of the WW game and fewer and fewer OH publics willing to play GCL teams. Another option may be pursuing more of the higher caliber IN and KY publics and privates within a 2 hour radius.
 
PURPLE REIGN said:
What impact would playing GCL teams 2X have on the Harbins and playoff implications?
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You would factor it as two different teams. If one team goes 2-0 you get the same points for two teams. So say Elder beats X twice in one year and X went 6-4, Elder would get to 6.5 Level 1 points twice. They would then get whatever X Level 1 points twice as Elder's Level 2s.

Great example is Milford this year. They went 3-7 this year with two wins over Loveland and one over Dayton Dunbar. The Dunbar gave them 5.5 Level 1 points and 20.6 Level 2. IF you go to Joeeitel.com and look They have 20.5 Level 2, they got all of them from Dunbar. Loveland went 0-10. So they got 0 Level 2 from them and 12 level 1 points. So it is just like two different teams.

Now if the teams go 1-1, You are actually getting 6.5 Level 1 points from the win and 6.5 Level 2 points from the loss, because at one point in the season you beat a team that beat you.
 
Independence said:
Potential positives from each GCL South team playing each other twice during the regular season every year:

1. Goes a long way towards solving the persistent scheduling issues every year.
2. On average, more competitive games which is great for both the fans and players
3. Higher game attendance = more $ for the respective schools.
4. Less travel and related expenses. Also, more local games make more games accessible for fans to attend.
5. As a league, we’re less reliant on public schools to fill a 10 game schedule. We assume more control of our own destiny.
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Since the games would be more often, they would be less desirable.
 
On balance, I think I would rather see Elder play home-and-home with one GCL-S team every year on a rotating basis with the first game not counting in the standings than have them play some team from out-of-state (other than IN or KY). Even if it means possibly playing Moe or X three times in the same season. Ideally, the two regular season games would be at least three weeks apart.
Home-and-home with all three? I'm with Omar on that one, not a fan.
 
Pantherontheporch said:
On balance, I think I would rather see Elder play home-and-home with one GCL-S team every year on a rotating basis with the first game not counting in the standings than have them play some team from out-of-state (other than IN or KY). Even if it means possibly playing Moe or X three times in the same season. Ideally, the two regular season games would be at least three weeks apart.
Home-and-home with all three? I'm with Omar on that one, not a fan.
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If they can get a team from KY or IN, I’d prefer that over a 4th GCL game. However, the amount of possible opponents keeps dwindling every yr.

I think the best solution is a Harbin Premium added for just scheduling the Private Schools. You automatically get 1/2 the points for scheduling the game and 1.5 points for a win. You’ve got to create some type of incentive to get the ball rolling abs since most of these schools know they won’t beat these big private schools, they won’t schedule them without some kind of guarantee.
 
I wonder if Elder or other GCL schools have considered hiring someone whose one and only job is to fill the football schedule. Instead of paying teams to play at the PIT, they could hire this person to schedule for football. I'm not saying Elder's AD isn't doing a good job, but football is just 1 of how many sports at Elder. More resources to get get games scheduled makes sense.
 
Omar said:
What does next yr’s sched look like?

Lincoln
Cathedral?
?
Eds
Ryle
X
Moe
?
?
LS

Since WW is joining the ECC, I’m assuming they’re out. There’s zero chance Clearwater comes back, I don’t think either team left feeling much respect toward the other after that game. Football North seems like they’re cool with playing whenever, so I would think E keeps them on the schedule to fill out a full 10 games, if necessary.

At one point a few yrs ago, a series with Moody was almost set, but fell apart. Wonder if they can get that resurrected.
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It seems worrisome that no one knows whats on the schedule for next year. Ohio schools have not gone to the all out recruiting yet. Ohio schools cannot compete against the mini college HS recruiting teams. Need realistic competition.
 
This post from a couple months ago is worth remembering here:

csg62 said:
I can tell you from first hand knowledge that LaSalle and the other GCL south teams have to schedule out of state teams because other Ohio teams will not schedule them. The GCL south has only three conference games so they have to find seven non league games every year. Many of those games are in weeks where other Ohio schools are playing conference games. I was the interim AD at LaSalle last year. I spent more time on the phone and online trying to find football games than anything else I did all year. Yes I called schools from Columbus, from Dayton, from Cleveland, Toledo, from every corner of Ohio, None would schedule us. Someone said ADs are lazy, that is bull. I called every division one and division two and division three school in southwest Ohio. I called Milford, I called Loveland, I called Centerville, I called everybody. Winton Woods is the only region 8 school that would schedule LaSalle. Once you have exhausted the Ohio schools you have to call out of State schools and I called hundreds of those as well. Schools from Kentucky, Indiana, Michigan, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Missouri, NY. The team LaSalle just played was already on the schedule. They have won seven state titles in Mass. They were a good team. LaSalle was better. It is almost an impossible job to schedule a full schedule. Then when you play an out of state team you have to starts trying to find a JV game and a freshman game from somebody that has an opening at that level, once again get on the phone and start calling. LaSalle and Elder are playing home and home at JV and Frosh levels simply to fill their schedule.
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It is a tough gig to schedule these games.
 
I don't think most people think ADs are lazy. Most realize this is an impossible task. Something is going to have to change - will this kill the GCL or could it expand it state-wide?
 
The biggest problem the GCL has is the discrepancy in size of the schools. Because there are only 4 schools that are D2 or larger, the rest of the schools in the GCL aren't viable options. Bacon, McNick and Purcell aren't even officially in the GCL anymore due to travel with the Dayton GCL schools, but they're too small to play the GCL-S in football.
 
OldSchoolPanther said:
I don't think most people think ADs are lazy. Most realize this is an impossible task. Something is going to have to change - will this kill the GCL or could it expand it state-wide?
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Add St. Ed's and Ignatius for football only. They're already playing one or two GCL teams a year. Make it official and everybody wins. No need to worry about the other sports. Although the prospect of a small holiday basketball tournament rotating between Cincinnati and Cleveland, heck even Columbus, could be a lot of fun and very intriguing. There's definitely some sponsors who would get behind something like this.
 
adselder09 said:
The biggest problem the GCL has is the discrepancy in size of the schools. Because there are only 4 schools that are D2 or larger, the rest of the schools in the GCL aren't viable options. Bacon, McNick and Purcell aren't even officially in the GCL anymore due to travel with the Dayton GCL schools, but they're too small to play the GCL-S in football.
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That said, I think Alter could and should be an option. They're very small, but it's better than Massachusetts teams.
 
Chuges said:
Add St. Ed's and Ignatius for football only. They're already playing one or two GCL teams a year. Make it official and everybody wins. No need to worry about the other sports. Although the prospect of a small holiday basketball tournament rotating between Cincinnati and Cleveland, heck even Columbus, could be a lot of fun and very intriguing. There's definitely some sponsors who would get behind something like this.
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Add Cathedral and one of the Louisville schools to get to 8. You still need to find 3 games every year.

The down side is that that's a monstrous schedule every year. Making the playoffs would be a dogfight every year. They still need to be able to schedule the bigger publics like Walnut and Oak Hills.
 
What about an Ohio Catholic League ? Elder, St. Xavier, LaSallle, Moeller, St. Edward and St. Ignatius
Maybe see if you could pick up an Ohio D-II team or 2. (or Louisville St. X and Indy Cathedral as mentioned above)
Yeah I know, "no one wants to travel that much." Well for the last I don't know how many years, Elder, X, Moe, Ed and Iggy have been playing each other anyway.

Screw the rest of the public schools. Play quality teams in the regular season and Kick in the playoffs.

Just a thought. Fire away !
 
az0217t said:
What about an Ohio Catholic League ? Elder, St. Xavier, LaSallle, Moeller, St. Edward and St. Ignatius
Maybe see if you could pick up an Ohio D-II team or 2. (or Louisville St. X and Indy Cathedral as mentioned above)
Yeah I know, "no one wants to travel that much." Well for the last I don't know how many years, Elder, X, Moe, Ed and Iggy have been playing each other anyway.

Screw the rest of the public schools. Play quality teams in the regular season and Kick in the playoffs.

Just a thought. Fire away !
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Teams from other states don’t have this problem. You could add Eds and Ignatius to the League, but that doesn’t solve the entire issue.
 
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