Freshman Football 2019

OldSchoolPanther

Well-known member
Don’t have any boys but nice try! Don’t have to drop the thought that Player Development at Frosh level at Elder stinks! All I want is more than 15-20 kids to improve at Football every year on the Frosh level. Guess that’s asking to much.
My information is 2nd hand, so take it for what it's worth, but this was the common theme of the parents I know. They weren't expecting their kids to get equal playing time, or to even play all that much (in some instances), but they did expect them to get better, and most didn't believe that happened, except for a small pocket of kids who were always being coached up.

They said the coaches were respectful and treated the kids well, but weren't sure most of the kids were better football players at the end of the season. They did have stories saying their sons told them they did a ton of standing around at practice.

Don't shoot the messenger. I have no reason to believe they'd make it up, and they're weren't super mad about it. They were just surprised that more kids didn't get active coaching and that practices would be so hands off for a lot of kids.
 

Omar

Well-known member
I would agree with this. Practice is the time for development

How is this a 'millennial' discussion? Every kid DOES deserve time in practice to develop. Now, come game day, not everyone deserves playing time. But this whole argument has been about development and everyone should be given chances to develop within the controlled confines of practice. If you ignore kids during practice, you're failing as a high school/youth coach.
Not every kid deserves equal time in practice, that’s inefficient. The 1st string should take the bulk of reps, otherwise you’re holding back their development.

This idea all these kids are blank slates and one could be just as good as the other with more practice time is absurd. There’s genetic reasons why some kids are better athletes (more fast twitch muscle), and that’s nothing you can develop
 

Omar

Well-known member
Don’t have any boys but nice try! Don’t have to drop the thought that Player Development at Frosh level at Elder stinks! All I want is more than 15-20 kids to improve at Football every year on the Frosh level. Guess that’s asking to much.
Improve how? I think all players improve to some degree going from Frosh to JV to Varsity. However, if you’re expecting 15-20 more kids to see the field, that’s unrealistic. Excluding STs, how many kids actually play in a competitive Varsity game? Maybe 35 or so.
 

OldSchoolPanther

Well-known member
I'm going to explain this as I honestly don't understand how grown adults can't comprehend this.

This isn't about playing time, it's about development. Only 22 kids can play at once. No one is saying that 40 kids should be seeing the field each week. No one.

However, when kids 20-40 are developed where they can push kids 5-19 (the top studs will never be unseeded), it makes your team exponentially better. Period, end of story. 22 kids still play, but it doesn't have to be the same 22. Everyone knows the 3-4 studs in each grade and everyone expects them to be out there. Outside of that, no one's job should be safe.

It seems they lock into kids very early (sometimes as early as grade school) and that's who they hang their hats on. That's a huge mistake, IMO. Kids 20-30 aren't much different than kids 10-20, and if those kids get close to the same amount of development, you have doubled your potential talent pool to contribute on Friday nights.

This is the way to develop talent. They're not doing this, and it shows. It has nothing to do with getting a bunch of studs. This is also exponentially more important as your numbers decrease. You can't look at a kid as a freshman and write him off on the spot just because he hasn't fully matured yet. Huge mistake.

Once again, you've got me all flustered as I can't comprehend how grown men don't consider this a better strategy than just focusing on the top 15 kids and hoping they work out. If/when they don't work out (or your numbers drastically diminish), your next level is ill-prepared. This also happens in multiple sports.

This is all fixable. Apologies for my tone, but damn, this is frustrating that people can't grasp this, and there's a better way.
 
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SC10EHS15

Member
Not every kid deserves equal time in practice, that’s inefficient. The 1st string should take the bulk of reps, otherwise you’re holding back their development.

This idea all these kids are blank slates and one could be just as good as the other with more practice time is absurd. There’s genetic reasons why some kids are better athletes (more fast twitch muscle), and that’s nothing you can develop
Where did I say that every kid can be just as good as the next with more practice? I understand the limitations of some players and the gifts of others. You can still take the not as gifted kids and pound them with the fundamentals and turn them in to useful rotational, situational or special teams players. Some will be destined to never see the field, but if they're giving up their free time to be there and work, then it's your responsibility as a coach to give that same effort back to them as best as you can. Having mutual respect between coach and player is simple
 
Are there enough coaches? Are they coaching more than one position group (o-line and d-line)? If there aren't enough coaches for each position group and they have to double up, then I could see where there might be groups of kids standing around not getting coached while at practice. I don't know if this is the case but i could be a factor. And if it is, that could be the difference in the development in the 15 to 20 kids that have been mentioned above.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Are there enough coaches? Are they coaching more than one position group (o-line and d-line)? If there aren't enough coaches for each position group and they have to double up, then I could see where there might be groups of kids standing around not getting coached while at practice. I don't know if this is the case but i could be a factor. And if it is, that could be the difference in the development in the 15 to 20 kids that have been mentioned above.
15-20 kids is a lot and nobody clearly defined what “development” means. Does it mean a kid who is a legit starter, serviceable backup? And further than that, development would be unique to each player, there’s no defined benchmark you can measure all players by.

Player development in terms of body, skill, intelligence is critical. There’s not a single successful program out there where players don’t make strides as they move through the ranks. However, development is such an umbrella term with multiple variables, how can you quantify it into a single metric?
 

adselder09

Active member
Yawn. Same story, different thread from trey. Can we move on and actually talk about the team?

Who's playing QB?
Who's getting touches?
Any studs on defense?
 

Omar

Well-known member
Yawn. Same story, different thread from trey. Can we move on and actually talk about the team?

Who's playing QB?
Who's getting touches?
Any studs on defense?
Schoster is the QB. Don brought up a good point, he’s from St John Harrison, but I’m not sure which GCYL team he would’ve played for. Maybe SJ Dry Ridge? I’m told they don’t have a lot of stars, but a good collection of players. If I had to guess, they might be somewhat similar to the 2017 class.
 
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OldSchoolPanther

Well-known member
I didn't start this argument. Other dudes have been ranting and raving on the ability of the frosh coaches to develop. I mean, I agree with them, but this wasn't my rant.

God forbid someone talks about freshman football development in the freshman football thread. Thread police.
 

jtk

Active member
some of you should actually go to a freshman football practice to see what really goes on then report back. i'm sure the public is welcome to come and see.

i'm going to venture to say from past experience..........

1) everyone get reps during skill and individual practice time
2) the top 15 or so players on offense get most of the team reps, when the offense is going and the top 15 or so players get the defensive reps when the focus is on defense. and those that aren't top 15 will get the reps doing the opponents defense and offense.
3) if a kid is standing around doing nothing that is on them. a kid not in the top 15 can use the skills/techniques they learn from their position group practice time during their scout team time.

jtk
()
 

Omar

Well-known member
I’m still curious about the JV game. I know for certain Cathedral beat E and X at the Freshman level by 14 last yr. I don’t believe Cathedral had many Sophs play in the Varsity game (except the OL), so I’m guessing a lot of those same players from last yr played in the JV game. That’s a big turnaround, especially with Elder not having Ramsey or Thomas on JV.
 

EHS 2001

Moderator
Officially a ‘B’ game?
I'm not sure. This post (http://yappi.com/forum/index.php?threads/freshman-football-2019.324813/post-7380462) says it was, but I thought La Salle stopped playing B games a few years ago because their numbers on the freshman level had dropped so low. Elder is the only GCL-S team that La Salle plays twice this season and there are no other "B" games on the Lancers' freshman football schedule. Elder's B games against Moeller and St. Xavier are listed as such. http://www.ehsports.com/team/schedule/2019/Boys/Freshman/Football
 

MickeyMantle

Well-known member
I'm not sure. This post (http://yappi.com/forum/index.php?threads/freshman-football-2019.324813/post-7380462) says it was, but I thought La Salle stopped playing B games a few years ago because their numbers on the freshman level had dropped so low. Elder is the only GCL-S team that La Salle plays twice this season and there are no other "B" games on the Lancers' freshman football schedule. Elder's B games against Moeller and St. Xavier are listed as such. http://www.ehsports.com/team/schedule/2019/Boys/Freshman/Football
I figured they were just playing a second game because of way-out-of-town foes for each school this week.
 

adselder09

Active member
I'm not sure. This post (http://yappi.com/forum/index.php?threads/freshman-football-2019.324813/post-7380462) says it was, but I thought La Salle stopped playing B games a few years ago because their numbers on the freshman level had dropped so low. Elder is the only GCL-S team that La Salle plays twice this season and there are no other "B" games on the Lancers' freshman football schedule. Elder's B games against Moeller and St. Xavier are listed as such. http://www.ehsports.com/team/schedule/2019/Boys/Freshman/Football
Elder treated it as a B game from what I was told. There were starters that saw some time on the opposite side of the ball from their typical starting spot, but the 1st Team O and 1st Team D didn't play.
 

OldSchoolPanther

Well-known member
Elder treated it as a B game from what I was told. There were starters that saw some time on the opposite side of the ball from their typical starting spot, but the 1st Team O and 1st Team D didn't play.
Then it was a B game. It's not like Elder treated it as a B game and LaSalle played their A players.

So you're telling us they use B games to move starters into different spots? B games should 100% be for kids that don't get to play much during the A games. The WHOLE game. THIS is why there's a thread on freshman football development.

I would hope this is just another yappi falsehood. Who are the players that scored for Elder if anyone was there?
 

SMARTY22

Well-known member
Then it was a B game. It's not like Elder treated it as a B game and LaSalle played their A players.

So you're telling us they use B games to move starters into different spots? B games should 100% be for kids that don't get to play much during the A games. The WHOLE game. THIS is why there's a thread on freshman football development.

I would hope this is just another yappi falsehood. Who are the players that scored for Elder if anyone was there?
If Elder really played Any Starters in a B game that’s absolutely embarrassing! Remember though the Real B kids probably didn’t work hard and some just want to wear the uniform and stand on sidelines.
 

Omar

Well-known member
If Elder really played Any Starters in a B game that’s absolutely embarrassing! Remember though the Real B kids probably didn’t work hard and some just want to wear the uniform and stand on sidelines.
I’d rather they experiment with the more talented kids than waste snaps on some kid who will never see the field. It’s more important to get the most talented players in their best positions than it is for some permanent 2nd stringer to get to play in a B game.
 

OldSchoolPanther

Well-known member
I’d rather they experiment with the more talented kids than waste snaps on some kid who will never see the field. It’s more important to get the most talented players in their best positions than it is for some permanent 2nd stringer to get to play in a B game.
Isn't that what the real games are for?
 

Omar

Well-known member
IDC what you have to say Trey. There’s probably 1/4 of the roster (about 15 kids) that will just never be big enough or fast enough to play meaningful snaps. It’s inefficient to pursue this egalitarian method of hanging out PT. They’re not blank slates, the kids getting more PT and face time with the coaches are better players. That’s all there is to it
 

adselder09

Active member
Then it was a B game. It's not like Elder treated it as a B game and LaSalle played their A players.

So you're telling us they use B games to move starters into different spots? B games should 100% be for kids that don't get to play much during the A games. The WHOLE game. THIS is why there's a thread on freshman football development.

I would hope this is just another yappi falsehood. Who are the players that scored for Elder if anyone was there?
Not necessarily. There have been plenty of times where Elder has treated a game as a B game and the opponent has played their normal starters. I'm not sure what LaSalle did, only heard what Elder did so I mentioned Elder's side.

From what I heard yes, a handful of starters played on the 2nd/3rd team units on the opposite side of the ball. I personally don't see the issue there if it was just a couple, which again is what I was told by a parent. If it was 5-7 players from the 1s then that's obviously an issue.

You have to remember with only 60 on the roster, some positions may be short on players. For instance, most of the time the OL/DL groups are heavy. The WR/DB groups are heavy. The TE/RB/LB groups are smaller. Who knows, there could be injuries as well. No need to blow this out of proportion since most of us talking about it haven't seen them play, nor were any of us there yesterday.
 

OldSchoolPanther

Well-known member
Well, I disagree. It's the one and only chance some of these kids get to play, and that's their purpose. We even have them then?

B games aren't where most development happens. That happens in practice. But a few B games can give a kid with potential some confidence and validate his skills, both in his eyes and the coaches eyes.

B games are a chance to give the younger kids in the program a chance to feel more a part of the team for their hard work as well. It's pretty sad if some of that is taken away from them.
 
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Omar

Well-known member
Not necessarily. There have been plenty of times where Elder has treated a game as a B game and the opponent has played their normal starters. I'm not sure what LaSalle did, only heard what Elder did so I mentioned Elder's side.

From what I heard yes, a handful of starters played on the 2nd/3rd team units on the opposite side of the ball. I personally don't see the issue there if it was just a couple, which again is what I was told by a parent. If it was 5-7 players from the 1s then that's obviously an issue.

You have to remember with only 60 on the roster, some positions may be short on players. For instance, most of the time the OL/DL groups are heavy. The WR/DB groups are heavy. The TE/RB/LB groups are smaller. Who knows, there could be injuries as well. No need to blow this out of proportion since most of us talking about it haven't seen them play, nor were any of us there yesterday.
I wish they had begun playing kids both ways yrs ago. The drop in #s may have forced them into it, but there were a few yrs it was obvious even with #s, there still wasn’t depth. Why not get your best athletes on the field more? Obviously, you don’t want them playing every down, but in certain key situations, it helps a lot to have that skill out there.
 

SMARTY22

Well-known member
I wish they had begun playing kids both ways yrs ago. The drop in #s may have forced them into it, but there were a few yrs it was obvious even with #s, there still wasn’t depth. Why not get your best athletes on the field more? Obviously, you don’t want them playing every down, but in certain key situations, it helps a lot to have that skill out there.
Ramsey said yesterday his team lacks depth so guess this is an issue for the entire program. 60 kids on Frosh,how many just on team to wear the uniform? Oh and supposed to talk about Team achievements. Huge shoutout to the Elder A/B Team beating LaSalle! Way to go guys, even those just wanting to put on the uniform, we are super proud of you!

FREE Pboy!!!
 
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OldSchoolPanther

Well-known member
Varsity lacks depth and JV has less than 30 kids. You might want to do whatever it takes to keep as many kids around as possible.

How much depth you think exists in 2-3 years? You need to keep 80% of the kids on the freshman team, and even then, you're still low because the JV team is so small.

Just not going to cut it at the highest levels of D1.

FREE PBOY!!
 

adselder09

Active member
Well, I disagree. It's the one and only chance some of these kids get to play, and that's their purpose. We even have them then?

B games aren't where most development happens. That happens in practice. But a few B games can give a kid with potential some confidence and validate his skills, both in his eyes and the coaches eyes.

B games are a chance to give the younger kids in the program a chance to feel more a part of the team for their hard work as well. It's pretty sad if some of that is taken away from them.
One and only chance, until the next game. Most years they have minimum 3 B games, sometimes 4 or 5. There are plenty of chances for those other guys on the field.
 
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