NeoFootballFan75
Well-known member
What happens if they played this year? Thoughts.. Had the possibility to be the best game in the area all year
Fitch v Canfield
- Thread starter NeoFootballFan75
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Spread All Day
Well-known member
Fitch would win
330Football
Well-known member
Irrelevant thread Canfield doesn’t have footballs to schedule them so no need to put any thought into it
What could be the 2 best football ONLY conferences with D2 & D3 schools in the area. Conference A gets 4 OOC which Canfield should be able to play Fitch and Boardman. Conference B gets 6 OOC which works because these schools like to get 7 or 8 home games a year. (Massillion, Stubenville ) this is not a tier conference but 2 separate football only conferences. Although these 12 schools would have some of the best wrestling & track combine meets in the state.
Conference A. ......... Conference B
Canfield D3. .............. Stubenville D3
Dover D3. ............ Fitch D2
Louisville D3. .......... Boardman D2
NP D3. ............. Warren D2
Howland. D3. ......... Massillion D2
Alliance D3
Marlington D3
Conference A. ......... Conference B
Canfield D3. .............. Stubenville D3
Dover D3. ............ Fitch D2
Louisville D3. .......... Boardman D2
NP D3. ............. Warren D2
Howland. D3. ......... Massillion D2
Alliance D3
Marlington D3
Spoken by a fan of one of the schools that fled the AAC to avoid having to play Canfield and Howland yearly. Shame on Struthers, Poland and Niles.
330Football
Well-known member
Do your research on what happened then come back weirdo.
FYI Niles and Poland were in the ? Spot of playing in 2 conferences in the same year. This gave them the same schedule each year, nobody wants that for their team. The AAC should never existed. To be fair, Canfield needs to be playing Fitch, Boardman and Warren. They have solid #'s and $ to develop programs that competes with these D2 schools more than Lakeview, Girard, Jefferson, Struthers and South Range have a chance beating Canfield most years. Unlike Louisville, after being left out of a league Canfield looked to put schedules together that gives them likely wins not playing local bigger schools that will give them a challenge.
simkon
Well-known member
Something to consider:
Enrollment numbers (avg number of boys)
(As we all know East & Chaney recently split from one D-II school (East) to two D-III schools so data is limited for them)
Austintown-Fitch 699
Boardman 601
Warren G Harding 596
New Philadelphia 413
Dover 408
Louisville 390
Howland 389
Niles McKinley 353
Chaney 331
East 309
Canfield 291
Hubbard 279
Poland Seminary 276
Struthers 258
Point being, I think Canfield is in no-man's land so to speak, they are too good/competitive year in and year out for the NE8 even though their number of boys is less than that of one member school (Niles) and not a great deal larger than that of Hubbard, Poland or Struthers. The problem is that most of the member schools with the notable exception of South Range project to get smaller faster than Canfield. South Range actually projects to increase in size, one of the few communities in the area that can claim that.
Fitch, Boardman and Harding are typically about twice as big as Canfield's enrollment.
I think more than anything else it was Canfield's success or dominance and their attitude/AD which led to them being left out of the NE8 more than their enrollment numbers, granted they would likely be bigger than everyone else in the conference but Niles for the foreseeable future.
I just think it is a bit over ambitious to expect Canfield to be competitive in the situation you propose and similarly I don't think it is realistic to expect Louisville to be competitive in the Federal League, sure they may win some games here or there but they would always finish near the bottom. The biggest problem is the Harbin system, with it in place, it would be very ill-advised for Canfield to schedule all 3 area D-II teams because they would miss the playoffs every year because of it, unless they happen to have a team capable of beating at least 2 of the 3 with 7-3 records or better. Region 9 is too competitive to be able to afford scheduling them.
I would much rather Canfield schedule in a manner to challenge themselves but also give themselves a decent chance at the playoffs.
I would like to see them schedule:
Dover
New Philadelphia
Louisville
Howland
Aurora
Mooney (and/or Ursuline)
Chardon
Poland
Boardman
Hubbard (I think Hubbard fans would want to see this as well)
I suppose if necessary they could toss in East or Chaney
Big Red would not sign up for this, nor should they.
McMurphy
Well-known member
C'mon man, that conference B would be great. Steubenville could compete just fine. What are you worried about?
Steel Valley FB
Well-known member
Is this a Fitch/Canfield game thread or the 700th “what could be a great Valley conference with 25% of the teams mentioned never ever joining” thread? 
Spread All Day
Well-known member
Who in the hell is afraid to play Howland? lol
Howland hasn’t been good since 2012.
They are the unfortunate victims of all of this.
I have this strange feeling very well end up in the NE8 soon. Canfield was excluded for various reasons. Most of those reasons, or how they acted with the Most of those reasons, are about how they acted with the AAC constantly politicking..... being an overall not good time. Also I know Struthers has a real beef with Canfield bc Canfield try to get a Struthers running back Ruled ineligable because he was from another country. They actually called the OHSAA about it.Kid played anyways. Got hurt but that’s another story. There’s no way Lakeview Jefferson Girard or south Range would have agreed to them in the league anyways. That’s half the conference. People think Niles was kept in the conference because they stink, no it was because they are not a difficult school to deal with People think Niles was kept in the conference because they stink, no it was because they are not a difficult school to deal with. Canfield is. Cooper was a nightmare for the local ad’s. Also I read somewhere that A Canfield guy wants Canfield to play Mooney... Canfield is the only school to
Come out and say they won’t sxhedule mooney for the foreseeable future.
Spread All Day
Well-known member
Traveling
McMurphy
Well-known member
Football only. You got to give a little, to get a little most times. I'm sorry, if I'm Steubenville I would rather play in a conference like that. They can still schedule 6 other home games.
Pipe dream
Member
Dover has 360 boys Np 335
simkon
Well-known member
That may be how many they have this year, or the last official count, but the list is a compilation of averages. Recall Dover definitely used to be D-II and Phila might have been as well, would have to check the data to be sure.
Your numbers are misleading. Or outdated at best.
For example, Struthers hasn’t had an enrollment over 250 since the last time they were D3 in 2011 and 2012. And Niles hasn’t been bigger than Canfield since the early 2000’s. The current enrollments of Canfield and Niles are the closest they’ve been in a long time.
I looked up the current enrollment numbers for every school you mentioned in this post.
Boardman 551
Fitch 549
Harding 506
Dover 353
Aurora 352
Chardon 342
Louisville 340
New Philadelphia 331
Howland 330
Canfield 321
Niles 310
Chaney 288
East 287
Hubbard 256
Poland 240
Struthers 218
Ursuline 183
South Range 156
Mooney 149
Obviously those are just the base enrollments without CB added in.
Also... the same argument you’re making against playing Fitch and Harding is the same argument you were making against playing Mooney and Ursuline 2 years ago. Glad you’ve come full circle on that.
I agree about Canfield not joining a conference with Fitch and Harding... but it would make sense to play one or the other on occasion, when they’re up for it. And they’ve already proven that they can handle playing Boardman every year.
You underestimate Canfield too much. News flash... Canfield is really good. Some years they’re great. And they’re going to b really good for at least the next decade. No reason they can’t consistently be a top 3 or 4 program in the Mahoning Valley for the foreseeable future. Hypothetically, no game they play should be considered an automatic loss... Fitch and Harding included.
NeoFootballFan75
Well-known member
Agreed that every couple years they can play one or the other, not both. Canfield hopefully can go to (looking like they will if they play how they have been) 3 regional finals in 4 years in a always tough region 9. They could play with the big dogs, but not consistently.
This would be the year to do it. I think Fitch would win a close one. Would be a really great game. Fitch’s offense against Canfield’s defense.
I don’t see traveling as the problem for Big Red. The problem I see is the size difference between the schools. They could definitely compete with most of those teams but if they lose half of them their playoff seed could be effected. That’s the problem with playoff format in a non-COVID year. Who you face doesn’t matter unless you win.
Spread All Day
Well-known member
Where did you get these numbers? Thanks b trev for posting the real numbers. This is sooooo misleading lol
He said they were average enrollments... average of when?
Canfield's enrollment is the lowest it's been in the last 15-20 years... and it's 321. I have no idea where he pulled 291 out of.
SteelValley
Well-known member
Agreed on that. Those #s were so off.
A few other items to consider - Boardman, Fitch and Harding are all on decline in enrollment. I’m not expecting it to be huge but they’ll settle more into middle of D2 going forward. Also I’ve heard rumors of Fitch looking to end OE which could honestly take them down 20%+ in future.
Canfield is still growing and has the open land to grow more through new housing developments. Atown and especially Boardman with all the commercial property are really limited or land is too pricy. I don’t see growth being rapid (our area is just not growing) but think that you’ll see a 10%+ increase from them while the above 3 decrease by that over the next 5-10 years which will definitely decrease the gap.
it will likely be 480-500 range vs 370-380.
simkon
Well-known member
My numbers are average enrollments, they are not from any one specific year, I think I used the past 12 years, I am on my phone at the moment, would have to get on my computer to tell you exactly how many years the averages were based on.
If you look at the post I clearly state that the numbers listed are averages, I never claimed them to be from any specific year.
And I wouldn't mind playing Mooney because they are no longer a state championship caliber team every year, recall they had a nice run there where they were playing for the championship almost every year. If Mooney were to miraculously right the ship and return to where they used to be, then I would not want to play them because that would be an automatic loss.
The only reason Canfield has had success against Boardman is their coaches are idiots, and also it helps because of their schedule, the more D-I and D-II schools you play (not counting schools like Lakeside that are never any good), the more difficult it is to beat Boardman.
Consider if Canfield played all the Federal League teams and then had to play Boardman, even this year they would most likely lose from being so banged up and worn down and would probably have a lot of injuries.
Consider last year Canfield went 7-3 with narrow losses to Dover and Highland and they didn't even make the playoffs, if you add Fitch and Harding, the likely go 5-5 and don't even come close to making the playoffs. Meanwhile one D-II team they easily handled got seeded above Harding in region 5 and Dover who they were pretty much equal to got the 3 seed in region 9. So it's not as if Canfield wouldn't be able to compete in the playoffs that year, granted they wouldn't have advanced out of their region most likely, they could probably beat 3 or 4 of the teams from region 9.
Just answer me one question what is the point in scheduling Fitch, Harding and Boardman if it will make you miss the playoffs in years where you could beat at least half the teams that make it in your region? What good will playing them do, what will it prepare you for?
Keep in mind the main reason I am against scheduling Fitch and Harding as well is Harbins, if the Harbin system didn't exist I would be all for them playing both schools every year. Fitch and Harding (and Boardman as well) are not good teams to schedule for getting Harbins, unfortunately that's just the way it is. Incidentally Canfield is usually a good team to schedule because you can usually count on them having 7+ wins and Dover's win over Canfield got them a home game in the playoffs.
simkon
Well-known member
That is 100% wrong Canfield is not growing, population of Canfield (city) 2010 was about 7,500, the most recent figure is about 6,500.
Canfield Township was around 16,500 in 2010, and the most recent figure is just under 14,000.
So the Canfield community as a whole went from 24,000 to 20,500 which is a decline of 15% over the past 10 years.
Canfield's enrollment is not going to be going up, it will continue going down, the gaps will not get appreciably closer anytime soon.
The area that is being developed for residential neighborhoods is actually in what is South Range school district, and you can expect them to grow for sure. They aren't building in Canfield, they are building in adjacent townships to Canfield though.
Spread All Day
Well-known member
His . To try to act like Canfield isn’t much much larger than the ne8 lol.
SteelValley
Well-known member
So Westford isn’t in Canfield? Those houses/lots are going like crazy. And as a Boardman person I see numerous Boardmsn alums moving to Canfield in droves. I’ll tell you one thing Canfield enrollment will not decrease and Boardman will certainly decrease.
simkon
Well-known member
While they may be building some new houses there, the numbers are what they are, you can look them up if you don't believe me, Canfield is decreasing in population by 15% over the past 10 years.
As much as everyone wants to say Canfield's population and enrollment are going up won't make it true, they are both going down, just not as fast as other areas of the Mahoning valley.
simkon
Well-known member
Found the problem, in my spreadsheet I have South Range in as Canfield South Range and somehow for one year Canfield and South Range got mixed up, so for one data point for Canfield I had a number around 150 in which threw things way off obviously. I apologize for the error, the correct number is 336 for Canfield. It also threw off South Range of course but I didn't list them. The mistake should have been so obvious, thanks guys for pointing it out to me, sorry again.
Yeah. I was gonna say... over the last 10 years or so, everything else seemed legit.
I still have a hard time buying that Niles has a bigger average than Canfield... but I'll take your word for it.
But like I hinted at, going by the last 12 years is misleading. The last 5 years would be a little more telling. Or just go off the current numbers... not sure what the point is of listing averages over the last 12 years when almost everyone has had considerable losses since 2008.