Fall HS Season

Lakota West 2 Loveland 1
Been preparing to eat these words. And I will gladly do so. As a Lakota native it’s great to see West taking advantage of the influx of talent and actually putting it together. I wasn’t there but heard Loveland looked very good last night too once they woke up. I wouldn’t want to play either of these teams in a few months.

Anyone who was there who can provide some analysis?
 
West was the better team in the first half. I was very impressed with KD and West overall was really good. She was the best player on the field and it wasn’t close. KD scored her 2nd goal with about 50 seconds left in the game.

Loveland was the better side in the 2nd half. KA is a beast and got the better of West’s outside backs in both halves. UC is getting an athletic kid with a great work rate. There was a goal called back from Loveland the AR said it was out of bounds, but it was close.

Overall I would say that the two sides are very close and that game could have easily been a tie. I liked the style of play from West more as they tried to play with some quality. I have to take my hat off to Loveland’s coach though because he knows exactly what he wants out of his program and those girls buy in. It may not be the prettiest soccer to watch, but you have to appreciate the culture and identity that he has established.
 

jperona

New member
West was the better team in the first half. I was very impressed with KD and West overall was really good. She was the best player on the field and it wasn’t close. KD scored her 2nd goal with about 50 seconds left in the game.

Loveland was the better side in the 2nd half. KA is a beast and got the better of West’s outside backs in both halves. UC is getting an athletic kid with a great work rate. There was a goal called back from Loveland the AR said it was out of bounds, but it was close.

Overall I would say that the two sides are very close and that game could have easily been a tie. I liked the style of play from West more as they tried to play with some quality. I have to take my hat off to Loveland’s coach though because he knows exactly what he wants out of his program and those girls buy in. It may not be the prettiest soccer to watch, but you have to appreciate the culture and identity that he has established.
Pretty spot on summary. In the waning last minutes with the game knotted at 1-1, LL’s negated score to go ahead could have gone either way - too close to know for sure but I don’t have a problem with the call. LL had a few other chances to go ahead before then so credit to them for giving themselves opportunities. West did not dominate but did hold a slight edge in possession at Mid and up front with KD although she was double teamed pretty well. LL overall showing good poise and had nice ball movement especially on perimeter and crosses. The difference in the end was West’s throw-in play with less than a minute to go inbounded quickly and the LL defender that was guarding in front of KD tried stepping forward to snuff the inbound pass but a brilliant side header by West around the defender and into KD’s path for a relatively easy shot on a closing keeper. Both teams should be proud of their performances.
 
West was the better team in the first half. I was very impressed with KD and West overall was really good. She was the best player on the field and it wasn’t close. KD scored her 2nd goal with about 50 seconds left in the game.

Loveland was the better side in the 2nd half. KA is a beast and got the better of West’s outside backs in both halves. UC is getting an athletic kid with a great work rate. There was a goal called back from Loveland the AR said it was out of bounds, but it was close.

Overall I would say that the two sides are very close and that game could have easily been a tie. I liked the style of play from West more as they tried to play with some quality. I have to take my hat off to Loveland’s coach though because he knows exactly what he wants out of his program and those girls buy in. It may not be the prettiest soccer to watch, but you have to appreciate the culture and identity that he has established.
I thought West was the better team by far in the first half. They possessed the ball 90% of the time. They had a lot of really close shots that hit the crossbar and could have put them up 3-0 in the first half. West overall looked tired in the second half and Loveland stepped it up. I thought KD did well with being double and triple teamed the whole game.
 

Conan73

Member
I agree with you Central on those 4 teams. It’s been a while since the Cinci area was down like this. Kids deciding not to play high school all over the city. Even some of the kids that are playing aren’t happy and do not want to play high school. The season hasn’t even started yet and these soft A*$ PARENTS are complaining and trying to protect their Mia already. Let the kid experience some challenges and build some resilience and toughness that will help them later in life. We have kids from MND, Ursula, Ursuline, LW,LE, Loveland, Beavercreek and who knows who else that aren’t playing this year because of the so called coaches. We have helicopter PARENTS that think these kids are the greatest thing since slice bread and are above going through any challenges in life.

I thought it was terrible for the DA to mandate that kids don’t play high school, but I am starting to soften my position on this. I want to be clear and state that I do not agree with the mandate, but something has to give. If these kids don’t want to play then the school is better off without them and their crazy PARENTS. High school is about your community pride and school pride and if you don’t have either of those then go play for the DA or a SAY high school program. The funny thing is high school was good enough for Rose and Mal Pugh, but it’s not good enough for your kid GTFOH.
It is a fallacy to believe that playing for the high school team is the only way to build resilience and toughness. Any kid that is playing for a high level club team (defined as ECNL, GCL, National Leauge, or DA) is playing for coaches that know how to do develop tough resilient players that KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME OF SOCCER. If they didn't, college coaches would not do 99% of their recruiting from club over high school.
There is a consistent theme that is emerging from a number of the posts. For the elite player, high school soccer is proving to be insufficient. This is not a new sentiment. I knew a number of players that dreaded the start of high school soccer season. They would have preferred to stay with their club teams where they received better coaching, played with and against better players, etc. These players have been expressing this for years. It is only now that kids are starting to act on it. Instead of blaming the kids and their parents (and club soccer as some area ADs have done), maybe we should critically examine high school soccer and figure out how to fix it
 
For the elite player, high school soccer is proving to be insufficient.
There’s the fallacy. And I suppose it depends on your definition of “elite” and what you think it should be accomplishing that it’s not, but as a general statement I don’t think this is accurate. There’s too much evidence to the contrary. Too many high school players who play for prestigious clubs who have gone on to have successful college, professional, and international careers. And I have no criticism at all for the girls who decide to forego high school soccer and stick with their club. High school soccer is not for everyone. But the top level players who decide to play high school soccer don’t put themselves at a disadvantage moving forward in their careers.
 

buckshooter5

Active member
Bottom line here and I said it before the High school coaches are the worst they have been in years and the AD's who are hiring these folks need to do a better job.
They are hiring folks that have no business coaching and for kids looking for the scholarship to college are realizing these folks are Not helping them get there.
Club coaches have to de-program these kids when they come back from being a boot baller - kick and run expert to playing the game again.
soon high school will be nothing but Rec players as it should be.
 

Rohbino

Active member
I knew a number of players that dreaded the start of high school soccer season. They would have preferred to stay with their club teams where they received better coaching, played with and against better players, etc. These players have been expressing this for years. It is only now that kids are starting to act on it. Instead of blaming the kids and their parents (and club soccer as some area ADs have done), maybe we should critically examine high school soccer and figure out how to fix it
So, Conan, how do you explain the DA players that chose to play with their HS team this season instead of returning to the DA? This situation is not unique to players in Ohio. It occurred in many other parts of the country as well. Kids need and want a break from club soccer. Many are also tired of the egos of the club coaches. That's not to say that a lot of HS coaches don't have overbearing egos also but at least it's not the same exposure to the same egos and miserable personalities.

Let's not forget that the majority of the country plays HS soccer during the same season that college coaches are in season too. So, there's that...
I get what you're saying but it isn't true. Perhaps ½ of the country or a little less play HS soccer in the fall. The rest of the country plays in the winter and spring.
Bottom line here and I said it before the High school coaches are the worst they have been in years and the AD's who are hiring these folks need to do a better job.
They are hiring folks that have no business coaching and for kids looking for the scholarship to college are realizing these folks are Not helping them get there.
Club coaches have to de-program these kids when they come back from being a boot baller - kick and run expert to playing the game again.
soon high school will be nothing but Rec players as it should be.
I won't argue about there being a lot of bad HS coaches. There are, though, a decent number of good ones that know the game and try to get their kids to play a good brand of soccer. It's also a fact that not all club coaches are good.
 
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There’s the fallacy. And I suppose it depends on your definition of “elite” and what you think it should be accomplishing that it’s not, but as a general statement I don’t think this is accurate. There’s too much evidence to the contrary. Too many high school players who play for prestigious clubs who have gone on to have successful college, professional, and international careers. And I have no criticism at all for the girls who decide to forego high school soccer and stick with their club. High school soccer is not for everyone. But the top level players who decide to play high school soccer don’t put themselves at a disadvantage moving forward in their careers.
Coach,
With all due respect you crucified girls who chose not to play high school in postings not more than 3 weeks ago. It was personal.

With respect to this topic I have yet to hear from a top player “I can’t wait to play for my high school coach”. I have heard that they are excited to play with classmates in front of cheering crowds. Regarding those 02 da players, they wanted a break and the chance to show their skills in front of crowds. Maybe they learn a skill but the majority of learning happens in club. High school can serve a purpose like reinvigorating a passion.

And it can have a negative impact for those trying to play in college. I have experience that inexperienced coaches or those with points to prove run the players into the ground with practices. Stress reactions or injuries from overuse can put players on sideline during key recruiting periods right after high school season.

There are always exceptions that can be argued but we need to acknowledge trends.
 
I get what you're saying but it isn't true. Perhaps ½ of the country or a little less play HS soccer in the fall. The rest of the country plays in the winter and spring.
It was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but...it is true.

By season -- includes Washington DC and Arizona (has fall and winter dates):
Fall -- 33 states (boys); 26 states (girls)
Winter -- 6 states (boys); 6 states (girls)
Spring -- 13 states (boys); 20 states (girls)

So, out of both, 56% of HS soccer is played in the fall. That would qualify as "majority" like I mentioned. It's rather consistent on the states playing same seasons, Colorado, Delaware, Illinois, Kansas, Michigan, Missouri, North Carolina, North Dakota, and Wisconsin do boys in the fall and girls in the spring. Tennessee is the only state that has boys in the spring and girls in the fall.
 
It is a fallacy to believe that playing for the high school team is the only way to build resilience and toughness. Any kid that is playing for a high level club team (defined as ECNL, GCL, National Leauge, or DA) is playing for coaches that know how to do develop tough resilient players that KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME OF SOCCER. If they didn't, college coaches would not do 99% of their recruiting from club over high school.
There is a consistent theme that is emerging from a number of the posts. For the elite player, high school soccer is proving to be insufficient. This is not a new sentiment. I knew a number of players that dreaded the start of high school soccer season. They would have preferred to stay with their club teams where they received better coaching, played with and against better players, etc. These players have been expressing this for years. It is only now that kids are starting to act on it. Instead of blaming the kids and their parents (and club soccer as some area ADs have done), maybe we should critically examine high school soccer and figure out how to fix it


Conan the only Fallacy is you and your misunderstanding of what I said in my post. I never once said that the ONLY way to build resilience and toughness was high school soccer. If the kid doesn’t want to play high school then don’t play it really isn't that hard. I am fully aware of the ECNL, National league and DA leagues and how recruiting works. This was never a conversation about club soccer as this is a high school soccer chat. If you would like to create a chat regarding club soccer and how recruiting works I would be happy to engage in a debate with you on those topics.
 
Coach,
With all due respect you crucified girls who chose not to play high school in postings not more than 3 weeks ago. It was personal.

With respect to this topic I have yet to hear from a top player “I can’t wait to play for my high school coach”. I have heard that they are excited to play with classmates in front of cheering crowds. Regarding those 02 da players, they wanted a break and the chance to show their skills in front of crowds. Maybe they learn a skill but the majority of learning happens in club. High school can serve a purpose like reinvigorating a passion.

And it can have a negative impact for those trying to play in college. I have experience that inexperienced coaches or those with points to prove run the players into the ground with practices. Stress reactions or injuries from overuse can put players on sideline during key recruiting periods right after high school season.

There are always exceptions that can be argued but we need to acknowledge trends.
Context is key. That was in direct response to a post that blankly over-generalized high school soccer as a second-rate option for second-rate players. I was triggered. :) The sarcasm may have been a bit heavy, so hopefully no one took that personally. But I will always reject this elitist narrative that high school soccer as a whole is the lesser option when compared to club for top level players. And the truth is I have never counseled a player not to play club if that's what they told me they want to do. There are definite benefits for some players to stick with their club over high school. However, I am opposed to blanket statements discounting the value of high school soccer for the best players. Big picture, that's a disservice to them IMO.
 

Conan73

Member
Let's not forget that the majority of the country plays HS soccer during the same season that college coaches are in season too. So, there's that...
High school football is only played in the Fall....the same time that college football takes place; yet college coaches will find ways to go to games and recruit during the season. College coaches have told me that they do not like to recruit/watch high school games because the quality is not there. Therefore, they can't get a good read on a players ability. So, they go to club games and tournaments. Of course, there are exceptions to this, but for the majority, this is the way it is.
 
High school football is only played in the Fall....the same time that college football takes place; yet college coaches will find ways to go to games and recruit during the season. College coaches have told me that they do not like to recruit/watch high school games because the quality is not there. Therefore, they can't get a good read on a players ability. So, they go to club games and tournaments. Of course, there are exceptions to this, but for the majority, this is the way it is.
I was a college coach for several years, I know what they do.

Compare the football staffs in college to the soccer staffs in soccer. That's one easy way to figure it out. Then, HS football is on Fridays (mainly), no college football is consistently on Fridays. They play once a week, compared to how many in soccer -- HS and college.

There is recruiting done at HS games. It's not as common or valuable [for some] since there's only two teams playing where club tournaments have how many? I was at a home opener for some NKY programs, guess what...there was recruiting going on there from a school over an hour away.
 

Gr8tS0ccr

Member
Bottom line here and I said it before the High school coaches are the worst they have been in years and the AD's who are hiring these folks need to do a better job.
They are hiring folks that have no business coaching and for kids looking for the scholarship to college are realizing these folks are Not helping them get there.
Club coaches have to de-program these kids when they come back from being a boot baller - kick and run expert to playing the game again.
soon high school will be nothing but Rec players as it should be.
Hard to disagree with this. The quality coaches, for the most part, are going where the money is. It isn't in HS soccer. Before there was big money in the club scene you could get some high quality HS coaches. Those days are mostly over (always exceptions of course).
 
I was a college coach for several years, I know what they do.

Compare the football staffs in college to the soccer staffs in soccer. That's one easy way to figure it out. Then, HS football is on Fridays (mainly), no college football is consistently on Fridays. They play once a week, compared to how many in soccer -- HS and college.

There is recruiting done at HS games. It's not as common or valuable [for some] since there's only two teams playing where club tournaments have how many? I was at a home opener for some NKY programs, guess what...there was recruiting going on there from a school over an hour away.
There was even recruiting happening last night at the Monroe-Valley View game. It happens, it's just not as widespread as club.
 
Mason 4 MND 0
I thought this score may have been closer. Last night though, Mason was the FAR better team. For being young, there are several who have good field vision. I like the way the girls vary their speed to certain situations.
 

Underbelt

New member
KD scores 5 goals against Kings. Sheesh she may break the all time scoring record at LW.


L East is BAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. No way they are top 10 in the city.
 

Rohbino

Active member
KD scores 5 goals against Kings. Sheesh she may break the all time scoring record at LW.


L East is BAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD. No way they are top 10 in the city.
Do you have any idea what the West record is and who has it? If I had to guess I would say Alex Azeez has the record and it's probably somewhere around 20 goals ± a few. She played in the late 2000s.

I'll agree that East doesn't sound good now but after 2 games in is it really possible to say that that they're that bad? They're 0-2 with a 3-0 loss to Zionsville and a 2-0 loss to Springboro. That's not the easiest start to the season but giving up 3 goals, regardless of the team, doesn't sound promising.

Early season polls mean nothing. What matters is the end of the season.
 

Underbelt

New member
Do you have any idea what the West record is and who has it? If I had to guess I would say Alex Azeez has the record and it's probably somewhere around 20 goals ± a few. She played in the late 2000s.

I think you are right about the LW record. If my memory serves me correct 24 goals should do it.

I'll agree that East doesn't sound good now but after 2 games in is it really possible to say that that they're that bad? They're 0-2 with a 3-0 loss to Zionsville and a 2-0 loss to Springboro. That's not the easiest start to the season but giving up 3 goals, regardless of the team, doesn't sound promising.

Roh have you seen LE play this year? If you go watch them I think you will find it easy to say that they are Baaaddddddd. They will have a 1-5 record six games into the season 2-4 at the best.
 

Rohbino

Active member
I did a little digging. If the info I found is correct, Alex Azeez has West's career and single season goal records at 58 & 17 goals, respectively. Kailyn Dudukovich should break the single season record. If she were playing at a D2 or D3 high school I would say that she would also have a legitimate chance of the career record in only two seasons. That's assuming, of course, that she does play her senior year. At a D1 high school she'll have little chance of scoring 58 goals in two seasons.

I haven't seen East play and I probably will not. I no longer live in SW Ohio but I still try to keep up with what's going on with high school sports in the area.
 
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Rohbino

Active member
KD scores 5 goals against Kings. Sheesh she may break the all time scoring record at LW.
West beat Sycamore last night, 6-2. Dudukovich put in 2 goals to bring her season total to 9 goals. West's season goal record is definitely within her reach.

It sounds like West is getting back to a good culture within the program and having fun. That accounts for some of their success, no doubt. Brigit Reder is young but seems to be doing a good job in righting the program. It's good to see.

The team is putting up a lot of goals but in just looking at the stats, it appears that defending could be a potential weakness. They've scored 14 goals in 3 games but have also given up 4. I've heard that the keepers are solid. Maddie Prohaska is committed to Auburn and the other keeper is committed to Marshall. When West plays better opponents and gets to tournament play they'll need to tighten up the defending and won't be able to give up that many goals if they want to make a deep run.
 

Empty CUP

Member
West has played poor teams so far. Not saying they are not good but they have played poor teams. Kings is just awful, sycamore not much better.

And hey at least Fairfield finally scored a goal this week. Wasn't sure that would ever happen.
 

Rohbino

Active member
West has played poor teams so far. Not saying they are not good but they have played poor teams. Kings is just awful, sycamore not much better.
West did play Loveland and beat them, 2-1. It doesn't sound as if Loveland has the team like they've had the past few years but I wouldn't say that they're poor.

I agree that West might be being hyped a bit too much and, as I mentioned above, they're giving up goals. In soccer any goal given up is too many particularly when tournament time rolls around and many games are decided by a single goal.
 
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