Elizabeth Whaley 4:49.11(now 4:39.71 All-Time State & Cincy record @ Regional)

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
There is no proof on Heffernan 1500m time from 2015 other than milesplit showing it. It was not an event at NBON that year. Kastrup's 1975 time is faster anyway even if it is a manual time
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
1975 was the first year OHSAA sponsored girls track. Kastrup didn't run in the 1975 state meet because Mt. Notre Dame didn't have a girls team back then. Don Wahle was listed as the 1976 coach when Kastrup ran reprsenting her high school for the first time and was second in the mile and fifth in the 880..
 
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JAVMAN83

Well-known member
1975 was the first year OHSAA sponsored girls track. Kastrup didn't run in the 1975 state meet because Mt. Notre Dame didn't have a girls team back then. Don Wahle was listed as the 1976 coach when Kastrup ran reprsenting her high school for the first time and was second in the mile and fifth in the 880..
Don was a great guy. Gentlemen, and he is missed.
 

ESPN 990

Active member
You're the man. Heffernan has the 1500m record.
While I'm thrilled with all the historical achievements of Ohio's female (and male) high school distance leaders, I find myself putting a kind of * next to the entire conversation. Compared to one another, they've done great. But then I think of someone like Mary Cain, whom I knew fairly well during her 15-18 years. 4:04.62 at just turned 18 years old, I believe, is crazy. So I think of our Ohio record holders in a sort of "normal kids but great" category. And then I put Mary Decker, Mary Cain and the like in a totally different kind of category, the freak category. When you bring to mind the truly global elite stars, I, at least, have to move them into that other category. This practice allows me to still marvel at and enjoy the merely "normally gifted" ones. And it keeps my eyes searching for the next one.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
I don't think you are using the proper terminology for the meet. https://www.usatf.org/events/2022/2022-usatf-u20-outdoor-championships
The key term is U20 and differs from the national high school meets in that it has college freshmen in it.
Nowhere did lane4 state that USATF Juniors (now called U20) is in the same vein as the other national HS meets. He was clarifying ESPN990's post to indicate that Whaley is not running in the USATF Championships with the elite US athletes.
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
The Mary Cains, Mary Deckers, Nancy Shafers, Madeline Mannings and all the other HS-aged athletes that produced world-class performances were at the extreme right-end of the classic bell curve. Top 0.1% of athletes. Everyone knows the difference. Frankly, while their HS performances are great and laudible, I am much more interested in their long-term development as healthy athletes. We all know the story of Mary Cain, and those of us old enough to remember we know of the numerous seasons that Mary Decker was on the shelf due to injuries to her legs during her career starting at 13. Fortunately, I think there is more concern for athletes' overall health these days. I remember something that the great Al Oerter (who I was most fortunate to meet in 1997 - he was my discus idol when I first started throwing in 1978) said in an interview. He said he couldn't have been a professional t&f athlete that we have today. He had a real life outside of the discus, spending a 25-year career at Grumman Corp. on Long Island. A father of two girls, husband, and career employee. Discus was a nice sideline gig for him and he kept it in that perspective. I wish more athletes were like this these days.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Nowhere did lane4 state that USATF Juniors (now called U20) is in the same vein as the other national HS meets. He was clarifying ESPN990's post to indicate that Whaley is not running in the USATF Championships with the elite US athletes.
I was only questioning the name of the meet that lane4 used. I've known lane4 for more than two decades and even went to his house when the 800m relay was added to the boys schedule in 2004. I know full well the extent of his knowledge regarding track and field. My statement about the U20 neet was to make those who read this forum and may not know that the meet has college freshmen in it.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
This would also explain the fact that her Wake Forest coach is traveling with her. Perhaps starting with this meet, WF "owns" Elizabeth.
Wake Forest is not very good in Women's Track & Field. They scored 17 points at the 2022 ACC conference meet placing 12th of 15 schools.
 
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JAVMAN83

Well-known member
Has Ms. Whaley already started classes this past week at WF? If so, she would NOT qualify for anymore HS records. Wow.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
She has to be listed as Wake Forest for the University to pay for her airfare. She signed a national commitment letter to attend WF and that is binding on her. WF would have to release her in order for her not to go there. Her signed commitment letter should be enough, and she shouldn't have to be enrolled and attending classes to be listed as WF
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
Given that information, Lancermania, I would submit that she is now acting as an official agent of Wake Forest University, and is no longer eligible for any high school-aged recognition of performances or records. I'm going to run this situation (not her specifically) by the boys at Track & Field News, but I think they'll tell me the same thing - they wouldn't recognize it.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Her coach at Indian Hill is going with her to Philadelphia for the New Balance Outdoor Nationals, so I think her affiliation with Wake doens't starft until after that meet.
 
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Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Back in the day when I was coaching at a school team, I had someone running for another team outside of his school team, I contracted the OHSAA office and someone told me he is not officially a member of his school team until he competes for the school team in a competition. Elizabeth's run at NBON counts for a high school record but not her time at USATF Under 20 meet
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
I now have feedback from Jack Shepard @ Track & Field News & I quote:

"As to college's paying travel expenses for soon-to-be students, we do not deny the athletes post-HS graduation marks from being on the HS lists."

I stand corrected, and Ms. Whaley's marks WILL count for HS purposes.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
She can't run for Wake Forest at NBON which is only for high school athletes. Like ESPN 990 says Wake won't own her until after the NBON meet when she travels with her college coach to Hayward field
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
I now have feedback from Jack Shepard @ Track & Field News & I quote:

"As to college's paying travel expenses for soon-to-be students, we do not deny the athletes post-HS graduation marks from being on the HS lists."

I stand corrected, and Ms. Whaley's marks WILL count for HS purposes.
I thought you wanted to say no more high school marks because she may have enrolled in college early not because her college was paying for her travel
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
She can't run for Wake Forest at NBON which is only for high school athletes. Like ESPN 990 says Wake won't own her until after the NBON meet when she travels with her college coach to Hayward field
Gotcha. Anyway, Jack Shepard's response to me indicated that regardless, T&F News would recognize her marks as HS-based even with WF paying her way to USAT Jrs.

I'm actually glad I was wrong on this issue.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Wake Forest has two summer sessions, the first started on May 23 which ruled her out for that session, the second starts on July 6 which if she wants to enroll early would be a possibility and not effect her high school eligibility for records in either meet
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
Man, as much as I was glad to graduate HS way back yonder, nothing could've compelled me to start college only a month out of HS. But then, I'd been in AP courses my senior year. Had to de-pressurize :)
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
I followed-up with Jack Shepard @ Track & Field News regarding HS eligibility issues just to make sure. I quote "The day the athlete enrolls in college, their HS career is finished. Causing us problems because we have to check each senior athletes day of enrollment in college, some as early as mid-August."

That's a whole lot of checking :(
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
This won't effect Elizabeth Whaley as ESPN 990 told us she is staying home until at least July 1, also Wake Forest's Second Summer Session doesn't start until July 6th if she is enrolling early
 

JAVMAN83

Well-known member
This won't effect Elizabeth Whaley as ESPN 990 told us she is staying home until at least July 1, also Wake Forest's Second Summer Session doesn't start until July 6th if she is enrolling early
I hope she has a successful career there. I watched some of the Wake Forest athletes competing at NCAA's this past weekend.
 
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