Elder D2 in Football?

Pantherontheporch said:

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The final 2022-23 and 2023-24 school enrollment figures and classifications have been posted. Elder's figure is 567 and again their governance classification is AAA.
It says "After the enrollment numbers become final, the enrollment figures will be used to determine OHSAA tournament divisions for the 2022-23 and 2023-2024 school years. For the OHSAA tournament sports in which competitive balance will apply, the competitive balance roster will be added to the ODE base enrollment counts prior to the determination of tournament divisions for those sports."
So they will add X to Elder's 567 to get its adjusted enrollment total for football. Last time around Elder's numbers were 570 + 47 for 617 and that kept Elder in D-I.

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Before the adjustment Elder is sitting at the 78th largest so we will above 613. I think we will do it, but it will be close.
 
Vincent and Regina said:
Before the adjustment Elder is sitting at the 78th largest so we will above 613. I think we will do it, but it will be close.
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I am completely lost when it comes to this conversation. So does this mean that Elder’s current Sophomore, Junior and Senior classes total 567 boys. And some abstract number of 47 puts them over 613. But does a school below the magic number have the option of playing Division one if desired. And if so- why would LaSalle go Division II.
 
1965 Panther said:
I am completely lost when it comes to this conversation. So does this mean that Elder’s current Sophomore, Junior and Senior classes total 567 boys. And some abstract number of 47 puts them over 613. But does a school below the magic number have the option of playing Division one if desired. And if so- why would LaSalle go Division II.
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I’m lost too. I’m just going to hope they can finagle the numbers around to stay D1, falling to D2 would be a joke. Who the hell wants to play the likes of Harrison, Little Miami, or Stebbins in the playoffs?
 
Omar said:
I’m lost too. I’m just going to hope they can finagle the numbers around to stay D1, falling to D2 would be a joke. Who the hell wants to play the likes of Harrison, Little Miami, or Stebbins in the playoffs?
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Just out of curiosity ... when Elder does fall to DII in football, will you still obsess over the team? Demographically, I think it is inevitable.
 
MickeyMantle said:
Just out of curiosity ... when Elder does fall to DII in football, will you still obsess over the team? Demographically, I think it is inevitable.
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If an enrollment 830-850 can’t keep them in D1, there’s something wrong with the system. Nobody wants Elder in D2, Elder doesn’t want to be in D2, figure something out.

Is it really any fun beating up on these tiny schools from the sticks? Massillon, Hoban, and WW are great programs, but that’s literally the only competition in D2 for LS.
 
Omar said:
If an enrollment 830-850 can’t keep them in D1, there’s something wrong with the system. Nobody wants Elder in D2, Elder doesn’t want to be in D2, figure something out.
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This was much nicer than your original reply!

I think you're probably right that Elder doesn't want it but as long as DI is the top 72 enrollments, I think DII is likely some year soon.
 
MickeyMantle said:
This was much nicer than your original reply!

I think you're probably right that Elder doesn't want it but as long as DI is the top 72 enrollments, I think DII is likely some year soon.
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Got to fight it tooth & nail, use every move possible to avoid it. I’m not sure how it will impact my enthusiasm, but if I had to guess there’s a good number of fans who would lose interest. It just can’t be any fun beating up on Harrison & Little Miami.
 
Vincent and Regina said:
I talked to a lady who's daughters attended Anderson. She told me the two schools don't get along. Plus they look at it differently. I mentioned that Anderson and Turpin combining they would be a really good football school. She told me they look at it as right now they have 2 QBs, 2 RB, 2 of everything else. If they combine they only have 1 of each and less of a chance to get the big scholarship. They were less about winning a championship and more of getting everyone a free ride to college. Different ways to look at things.
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Imagine if Lakota was still one school.
 
MickeyMantle said:
I think you're probably right that Elder doesn't want it but as long as DI is the top 72 enrollments, I think DII is likely some year soon.
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Limiting D1 to the top 72 enrollments made sense when only 8 teams per region qualified for the playoffs. Hopefully the size of football D1 increases so the number of schools per division is more balanced. A few people mentioned the possibility of that happening, but it wasn't listed among the proposed changes from the OHSAA this year, so I guess it won't happen yet.
 
Omar said:
Is it really any fun beating up on these tiny schools from the sticks? Massillon, Hoban, and WW are great programs, but that’s literally the only competition in D2 for LS.
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There were some WW fans in the main football forum who thought they might get moved up to D1 this year. Imagine how much more boring R8 would be without them.
 
Well, the Panthers have lost to a couple of D-II schools in the recent past, so you can't say that if they end up in D-II a trip to the finals is a lead pipe cinch.
Anyone know when the OHSAA will release the competitive balance numbers?
 
Pantherontheporch said:
Well, the Panthers have lost to a couple of D-II schools in the recent past, so you can't say that if they end up in D-II a trip to the finals is a lead pipe cinch.
Anyone know when the OHSAA will release the competitive balance numbers?
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The problems is those are the only 2 schools in the region that are competitive. You’ve got 4 schools in D2 (LS, WW, Massillon, and Hoban) who can play with anyone in D1, but that’s it. The rest are miles and miles behind those 4.
 
Pantherontheporch said:
Anyone know when the OHSAA will release the competitive balance numbers?
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Approval of the fall and winter sports divisions for 2022-23 will occur at the June OHSAA board of directors meeting. Their website says "For the OHSAA tournament sports in which competitive balance will apply, the competitive balance roster will be added to the ODE base enrollment counts prior to the determination of tournament divisions for those sports." So the answer to your question is apparently sometime prior to the June board meeting.
 
I believe that there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll.
I also believe that we shouldn't be surprised that, after the competitive balance numbers are added to the base enrollment figures, Elder ends up being the smallest D-I school.
 
EHS 2001 said:
Limiting D1 to the top 72 enrollments made sense when only 8 teams per region qualified for the playoffs. Hopefully the size of football D1 increases so the number of schools per division is more balanced. A few people mentioned the possibility of that happening, but it wasn't listed among the proposed changes from the OHSAA this year, so I guess it won't happen yet.
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I don't necessarily disagree, but I think they went to 72 because the difference between the biggest and smallest DIs was way bigger than any other division maybe combined. I'd see them shrinking DI rather than expanding it.
 
EHS 2001 said:
There were some WW fans in the main football forum who thought they might get moved up to D1 this year. Imagine how much more boring R8 would be without them.
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I think enrollment-wise, WW is DIII and they move up to DII based on the multiplier. That would be a helluva multiplier this year to send them to DI.
 
MickeyMantle said:
I think enrollment-wise, WW is DIII and they move up to DII based on the multiplier. That would be a helluva multiplier this year to send them to DI.
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Looking at the numbers Yappi posted yesterday from the OHSAA, Winton Woods enrollment is 91st with 527 boys. Previously they had 515 boys with a CB boost of 64 which put them fourth in D2. They're not that far away from D1.
 
MickeyMantle said:
I don't necessarily disagree, but I think they went to 72 because the difference between the biggest and smallest DIs was way bigger than any other division maybe combined. I'd see them shrinking DI rather than expanding it.
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It's highly unlikely they'll shrink D1 because they have to keep 6 weeks of playoffs for all divisions. People suggested D1 would be increased to 84 teams to prevent 0 win teams from making the D1 playoffs.
 
Plus it would make scheduling even harder honestly for schools like Elder and others in a similar position. If Elder went D2, it's not like any D2 schools are going to regularly schedule them in the regular season. Elder would still have a very tough D1 schedule in the regular season and then would play D2 schools in the playoffs, which is really dumb. The first 3 rounds of the playoffs would be like scrimmage games they'd be so lopsided. LaSalle pretty much cake walks through their first 3 playoff games every year - they go from IMG to Harrison - how stupid.

Not sure why OHSAA wouldn't give schools a choice to move up, but I'm not surprised they aren't flexible.
 
Pantherontheporch said:
I believe that there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll.
I also believe that we shouldn't be surprised that, after the competitive balance numbers are added to the base enrollment figures, Elder ends up being the smallest D-I school.
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We were the smallest in 2019.
As other schools continue to grow more and faster than elder or as two D2 schools merge to become D1, the odds of Elder dropping down increases. It really is more about the other schools than our school.
 
If Elder is using this option by the OHSAA as their assigned Feeder District, then they should have no problem getting the competitive balance boost need to stay in Division 1.

*Cincinnati City- West Attendance Zone Holy Family Our Lady Of Lourdes Resurrection St. Aloysius On-The-Ohio St. Antoninus St. Catharine Of Siena St. Joseph St. Lawrence St. Martin Of Tours St. Teresa Of Avila St. William

Any kid on the football roster not from one of those grade schools would then count toward the competitive balance number boost. That includes JV. I hope Elder knows that.

Elder's competitive balance number should be in the 100+. If it's not, they need to take another look at it.
 
EHS 2001 said:
There were some WW fans in the main football forum who thought they might get moved up to D1 this year. Imagine how much more boring R8 would be without them.
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I am looking at Region 8. Games that had Winton Woods or LaSalle were not close, unless they were playing each other. Both schools blew out the other teams. A few games between the two were close.
 
ElderHSfan02 said:
If Elder is using this option by the OHSAA as their assigned Feeder District, then they should have no problem getting the competitive balance boost need to stay in Division 1.

*Cincinnati City- West Attendance Zone Holy Family Our Lady Of Lourdes Resurrection St. Aloysius On-The-Ohio St. Antoninus St. Catharine Of Siena St. Joseph St. Lawrence St. Martin Of Tours St. Teresa Of Avila St. William

Any kid on the football roster not from one of those grade schools would then count toward the competitive balance number boost. That includes JV. I hope Elder knows that.

Elder's competitive balance number should be in the 100+. If it's not, they need to take another look at it.
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Last time Elder's competitive balance number was 47. So some things have changed since then so that their number this time will be over 100? Or did they elect to use a different option?
 
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