Ed's vs Spire Academy 1/26

I know Spire is loaded, but I still thought Eds would do a better job than Brush or SVSM. After the way that Spire has beat down three of the best in Ohio, it surprises me that this group got so dominated in Dayton last weekend.

Prolific took it straight to spite. There was zero intimidation.
 
it’s always a good day when St Ed’s gets killed. Too bad Moeller doesn’t play them. Love to see Moe lose by 30
 
IMO and not just from the result of this game, but this St. Edward team has taken a step backwards from where they were last year. The expectations at the beginning of the season were high for this team to contend for a state championship. They return the three juniors (who were starters as freshman, something that seldom happens at St. Edward) and a senior, three year starter.

It will be interesting to see how this team ends up at the end of the season and state tournament.
 
This was my first time seeing Ed's this year. Maybe it was just the competition last night and the athletic bigs Spire has but Huffman does not look like he is much better then he was as a freshman. Maybe a Ed's fan can chime in. Don't get me wrong he is a solid player but he does not shoot much from outside and likes to slash - just like his freshman and sophomore years. He looks uncomfortable shooting from midrange out to 3. Jackson had seven blocks last night and several were on Grant's shots. I still feel Ed's will make a deep tourney run but I'm still a bit in shock at how easily they were beaten last night.
 
I think your point in an earlier post highlighted the big deficiency in three point shooting. Blanton shoots from the outside too much, he should work from the outside in. It's not that he does not have the range, its that he needs to get into rhythm better I think.

As for Huffman, I thought it looked like he was off his game a lot. I mean he played well enough, with 20 points against the best talent he will face but his shot was off. It seemed that he was frustrated by his team's decision making, as if he knew what they should be doing but they gave into bad shots too often, especially in the 2nd half. Still, 86 points is a good showing for a high school team, giving up 64 to a player who couldn't miss and 122 overall is tough though.
 
IMO and not just from the result of this game, but this St. Edward team has taken a step backwards from where they were last year. The expectations at the beginning of the season were high for this team to contend for a state championship. They return the three juniors (who were starters as freshman, something that seldom happens at St. Edward) and a senior, three year starter.

It will be interesting to see how this team ends up at the end of the season and state tournament.

I would expect them to do what they do....Kick and make a deep run in the tournament.This was an exhibition game against a traveling road show.No more,No less.They will be better going forward.
 
IMO and not just from the result of this game, but this St. Edward team has taken a step backwards from where they were last year. The expectations at the beginning of the season were high for this team to contend for a state championship. They return the three juniors (who were starters as freshman, something that seldom happens at St. Edward) and a senior, three year starter.

It will be interesting to see how this team ends up at the end of the season and state tournament.

How have the big 3 juniors done this year? I haven't seen them much, but after all 3 being varsity players at Ed's as freshman (very difficult achievement), I would have expected them to the all be monsters by junior year. I guess we will see in the next 2 months.

Are more players getting more specialized training at such a young age now that they are peaking around 14 and only getting moderately better after that? Hopefully not the case with these guys.
 
The Spire games against local teams are clearing showing one thing. I see a lot of chatter about "so and so is D1" on social media. Spire is showing us what real high major D1 guys are. Tall, long, supremely athletic. As a player, it gives you a sample of what you would be playing against D1.
 
The Spire games against local teams are clearing showing one thing. I see a lot of chatter about "so and so is D1" on social media. Spire is showing us what real high major D1 guys are. Tall, long, supremely athletic. As a player, it gives you a sample of what you would be playing against D1.

Even if you win a state championship but get steamrolled like this at home where you almost never lose.And by36 pts. no less.It kind of puts that achievement in to perspective when you see what real elite D-1 talent looks like.The different levels of talent from a local powerhouse to a national power is shocking.I expected a closer game given what other locals had done against Spire earlier.Every game is its own unique thing though and these are kids.
 
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I did not think it would happen but Ed's played scared. They shot horribly, appeared timid, turned the ball over, forced shots when they did shoot and did there fair amount of trash talking. Spire took Ed's completely out of their game. Terry for Ed's was sent packing and deservedly so. There is a difference between playing hard and doing things that dont belong in basketball. While I agree Spire plays very aggressive and cocky when winning - Terry was no angel. I was sitting a few rows behind Lavar Ball and saw Terry mouth obscenities to Mr. Ball that should never come out of the mouth of a high schooler - let alone a Catholic school player. He was as bad as anybody on the Spire squad. I'm sure he was embarrassed - but that is no excuse to play that way. His mouth eventually got him ejected.

Spire is superior to normal high school teams but we saw last week how they did when a team has equal talent.

The game would have been much closer had it not been for the absolutely insane shooting of Rocket Watts. It's hard to account for a kid scoring 64 points. It did not matter who was on him. He was shooting from damn near the parking lot. He made 16 3s and only 3 or 4 even hit rim. It was like watching a video game. He made shots when open or tightly guarded - it did not matter.

I did however come away disappointed with the shooting of Ed's. They missed several free throws and a couple were air balls. Ed's plays hard but they really lack shooters.

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About the foul shooting. How can you have a starting guard average 57% from the free throw line? Do kids just practice shooting 3s now bc of Steph Curry effect?
 
I would expect them to do what they do....Kick and make a deep run in the tournament.This was an exhibition game against a traveling road show.No more,No less.They will be better going forward.

I don’t know about that. IMO, they don’t have the bench depth compared to other years and lack a real accurate shooter, like 3J Flannery from last year.
 
Let's keep this in perspective. Just because you play poorly against Spire does not diminish your team or show your player (or players) don't have D1 ability. Here is the situation. Regular high school teams are blessed to get a kid with D1 potential. The very good programs at times may have a few D1 candidates and some lower tier type kids or kids that are just multiple sport good athletes. That is not the case with Spire this year. You have Ball (may or may not be college eligible) and 5 or 6 other high level D1 kids. They have D1 backcourt and D1 big men. That is what is hard to overcome. In contrast when Spire played a team built in its own image - they did not fair very well. I would like to see how they would do against the LaLumire, Oak Hill, Dematha and Montverde teams of the world. It's easy to play cocky, loose and free when there is such a HUGE talent gap across the board.

I also don't know how you prepare for a kid exploding for 64 points. People were saying at the game last night "double him" - really ? Then what ? Leave one of the two athletic giants unguarded? Leave Ball free to drive and dish at will ? You pick your poison. You hope the kid cools off. I would rather take my chances from long range then to give up drives to the basket. The problem was the kid NEVER cooled off. He was hitting bombs with kids in his face, double pumping and everything in between. Flannery could not do anything that would have made a difference last night. Spire was the better team and played unconscious basketball last night. Ed's needed to play very well, needed to take advantage of the home court and hope Spire was off - the complete opposite happened.
 
How have the big 3 juniors done this year? I haven't seen them much, but after all 3 being varsity players at Ed's as freshman (very difficult achievement), I would have expected them to the all be monsters by junior year. I guess we will see in the next 2 months.

Are more players getting more specialized training at such a young age now that they are peaking around 14 and only getting moderately better after that? Hopefully not the case with these guys.

Each of them shines occasionally, but no real consistency from game to game for any of them from what I've seen. Not really a cohesive unit. Definitely not where I thought this group would be from two years ago. A soft district may see them advance to the sweet 16, but beyond that, I don't see this group being a title contender.
 
About the foul shooting. How can you have a starting guard average 57% from the free throw line? Do kids just practice shooting 3s now bc of Steph Curry effect?

It seems like poor free throw shooting has kind of been a staple for Flannery's bunch over the years. Not sure why that is.
 
The Spire games against local teams are clearing showing one thing. I see a lot of chatter about "so and so is D1" on social media. Spire is showing us what real high major D1 guys are. Tall, long, supremely athletic. As a player, it gives you a sample of what you would be playing against D1.

Exactly! Great post! Add speed as well!
 
Let's keep this in perspective. Just because you play poorly against Spire does not diminish your team or show your player (or players) don't have D1 ability. Here is the situation. Regular high school teams are blessed to get a kid with D1 potential. The very good programs at times may have a few D1 candidates and some lower tier type kids or kids that are just multiple sport good athletes. That is not the case with Spire this year. You have Ball (may or may not be college eligible) and 5 or 6 other high level D1 kids. They have D1 backcourt and D1 big men. That is what is hard to overcome. In contrast when Spire played a team built in its own image - they did not fair very well. I would like to see how they would do against the LaLumire, Oak Hill, Dematha and Montverde teams of the world. It's easy to play cocky, loose and free when there is such a HUGE talent gap across the board.

I also don't know how you prepare for a kid exploding for 64 points. People were saying at the game last night "double him" - really ? Then what ? Leave one of the two athletic giants unguarded? Leave Ball free to drive and dish at will ? You pick your poison. You hope the kid cools off. I would rather take my chances from long range then to give up drives to the basket. The problem was the kid NEVER cooled off. He was hitting bombs with kids in his face, double pumping and everything in between. Flannery could not do anything that would have made a difference last night. Spire was the better team and played unconscious basketball last night. Ed's needed to play very well, needed to take advantage of the home court and hope Spire was off - the complete opposite happened.

I agree about perspective. Someone else on here talked about the difference between high division I talent and everyone else and I think that showed. You are also right that there is no way to prepare for a kid going off. In the 2008 state title game, Newark had a kid go for 30 I think. Ed's had no answer for him either. The plan to make Watts shoot was sound too, he just hit everything. It makes complete basketball sense to force an outside shot. A great equalizer could have been 3 point shooting from St. Ed's but we passed up several looks and did not hit a ton of the ones we took. With now a pretty good basketball tradition, St. Ed's has only had four high division I basketball recruits (Logan, Williams, Roe and Pritchard) in the modern era. It is not something that happens often.

A question that will be interesting to see play out is, now that Spire has gone through the top Northeast Ohio teams, does that mean more local kids with Division I aspirations take a look at going there? Admittedly I'm unfamiliar with their set up financially, if there are scholarships or what.
 
Each of them shines occasionally, but no real consistency from game to game for any of them from what I've seen. Not really a cohesive unit. Definitely not where I thought this group would be from two years ago. A soft district may see them advance to the sweet 16, but beyond that, I don't see this group being a title contender.

I think the fact is, St. Ed's is a very beatable team. They are capable of playing really well and they are capable of playing poorly. It reminds me a little of the 2013 edition where I believe they lost to North Ridgeville in the Brecksville district. That team had beaten a national power in Mater Dei earlier in the season and looked to be righting the ship but played inconsistent all year. They have some solid opponents coming up in Ignatius and CCC so we will see how they play the Cats in round 2 and a usually tough Ironmen team.
 
I agree about perspective. Someone else on here talked about the difference between high division I talent and everyone else and I think that showed. You are also right that there is no way to prepare for a kid going off. In the 2008 state title game, Newark had a kid go for 30 I think. Ed's had no answer for him either. The plan to make Watts shoot was sound too, he just hit everything. It makes complete basketball sense to force an outside shot. A great equalizer could have been 3 point shooting from St. Ed's but we passed up several looks and did not hit a ton of the ones we took. With now a pretty good basketball tradition, St. Ed's has only had four high division I basketball recruits (Logan, Williams, Roe and Pritchard) in the modern era. It is not something that happens often.

A question that will be interesting to see play out is, now that Spire has gone through the top Northeast Ohio teams, does that mean more local kids with Division I aspirations take a look at going there? Admittedly I'm unfamiliar with their set up financially, if there are scholarships or what.

I mentioned the possibility of just such a thing happening in football with players from Ohio and surrounding states on the football forum.It's split between it occurring and it being unlikely.Using basketball as a model.
 
A question that will be interesting to see play out is, now that Spire has gone through the top Northeast Ohio teams, does that mean more local kids with Division I aspirations take a look at going there? Admittedly I'm unfamiliar with their set up financially, if there are scholarships or what.

I was living in Las Vegas when Findlay Prep was founded.

The way it was handled by the NIAA was that their ember schools could play against Findlay, but that players could not transfer directly to or from NIAA member schools & Findlay Prep.

I remember one kid leaving Las Vegas after his strong sophomore season, spending his junior year at a high school in Southern California, and then showing up at Findlay to play his senior season.

Not sure what sort of arrangement, if any, the OHSAA has made with Spire.
 
What type of scores would you predict, if this Spire team played against division 3 college teamsike in the OAC, d2 teams, or MAC schools?
 
I'm curious to understand how Watts was allowed to continue playing after what would have been his third technical in the game? Would love to hear from someone that officiates if they saw the game.

First, he received a double technical early, after "shoving" Montorie Foster with the arm lift right to his face. Foster was in his face, so it was warranted for both to get a T, that made sense.

Then a couple minutes later, still in the first half (2nd qtr I believe) there was a similar situation only with Josiah Knight, who walked away with a 4-5 inch rip in the front of his jersey. The official closest to the situation instantly signaled for another double tech (I know cause I was sitting ten feet behind him), but after a two minute discussion of officials aided by Spire's HC, they adjusted the call to a "double personal." It felt like they essentially realized they were about to remove Watts from the game and he already had 30 of Spire's 38 points at that point in time. This wasn't a good look for what was already a rather chippy game, lot of body shots that went uncalled and too much talking from both sides. Would love to hear an explanation from that situation if anyone saw it or has an officiating background.

Lastly, after Spire was warned about repeated delay of games after a make early in the second half (they were tossing the ball aside to slow Eds from in-bounding the ball quickly), they were T'd shortly after in the third. Well, the third time it happened (already the one warning and a T), Watts was the one who did it. It was called, but he remained in the game? This I'm likely confused on the rules, but my understanding is that would have been his second (or technically third) T and should have been removed. Is that false? Is that a team technical?

I'm not trying to come off complaining, it was poor and sloppy officiating both ways at times. Both teams had a lot of chirping, etc. But would just love to understand the second and third instance with Watts; why was he allowed to continue playing?

It was one of the best shooting performances I've seen live, he carried Spire offensively, very good athlete. Tom Izzo will make him an even better guard I believe.

Ps. Isaiah Jackson did everything defensively, very impressed with him as well, looks of an NBA athlete. Melo was very meh, you couldn't find him with a search light through three qtrs until the reserves came in.
 
A delay of game technical foul is an administrative type, which is assigned to the team and not an individual player. Similar to calling a time out when you are out of timeouts, more than 5 players on the court, etc.
 
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I believe a delay of game "T" is not assigned to an individual player.

Got ya.. I kind of assumed it had to of been assessed as a team T. The Eds students chanting as if his game was over likely added to my confusion in the moment. Thanks...

The second situation is where I was more surprised, as they clearly changed the initial call, which I know officials can come together assess and do.
 
Quick note here on Ed's. Looking at the tournament draw.
Ed's in Lakewood district. Shouldn't have much trouble advancing to Regionals unless Ignatius pulls and upset.

Then they are matched up with Solon district at CSU. I guess Shaker is the fav at this time, and it's a semi down year for the young Red Raiders, also garfield and harding are down this year.

So Ed's should pretty easily waltz into the final 8 with Mentor/Brush or the Canton winner (Boardman, McKineley, Lake, etc) between them and Columbus.
 
Watching the highlight video, it made me think of the Harlem Globetrotters. This wasn't real HS basketball. It was a show. The officials of the game seemed to be actors in the show. The trash-talking was over the top. Lavar Ball had a goofy grin on his face knowing that the cameras were on him. The players were talented but the game was never in any doubt. Did anyone throw a bucket of confetti into the crowd?

It will be interesting to see if any of these players improve as they move on in their basketball careers. Seems that some are very highly rated but nothing is guaranteed. When they step on the college court, it might be the first time that some of them have faced any kind of competitive adversity.
 
The one team Spire played thatbwas close to being equal in ability ran them out of the gym like 38 points (Prolific Prep, Ca). They have only beat up on the teams that they have a superior talent advantage over. They are 0-1 against teams with similar skills.
 
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