Does this tarnish Lebron's Legacy?

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Whether or not they legitimately can get other real stars this summer is immaterial IMO. I fully expect LeBron to put the pressure on Magic and company privately and in the media, and they'll panic and figure out how to acquire two more big names via free agency and trade. Trade is necessary because LeBron doesn't do young guys and they've furked up their situation with the young talent they have.

I think their best scenario is clearly to sign Irving away from Boston and find some trade package their purges them of youth and draft assets for Anthony Davis. Fill out the roster with shooters and versatile defenders.

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y2h

Well-known member
I see you guys have been spun by the media as well. That was absolutely the goal this year for the Lakers. Not to make the Western Conference Finals but to make the playoffs the conference finals would have been a bonus. Was it possible yes, likely no. In the history of the NBA there has never been a team to make the conference Finals after a 5-year absence from the playoffs. That doesn't even make sense. This isn't college.
You don't sign LeBron just hoping to be an 8 seed.
 

14Red

New member
It's just good theater watching LeBron implode at this point in his career. He's all about his legacy, not winning. He's about doing shows on social injustice, like he has any idea. I'll be curious how the next 10 years goes for him. Most players gracefully mature as they get deeper in their careers, LeBron's a head case.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Boy and I watched it up until he missed the first 4 free throws, heard the fans boo and we just laughed and turn the channel!
 

14Red

New member
LeBron saying that eclipsing Jordan in individual scoring is like winning a championship tells you about everything you need to know about LeBron's place in life.
 

Levi

Well-known member
Same 31-40 record that they had last year without LeBron.

3-11 since the All-Star Break meanwhile Cavs are 7-7 with 3 wins over playoff teams the past 10 days including the 1 and 2 seed in the East and nearly beating the #3 seed. They need to watch out as they are inching closer and closer to the 4th worst record which will hurt their odds at getting Zion. I feel like the Knicks will get him though.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
On 92.3 in Cleveland this morning, Garrett Bush is engaged in the most accurate LeBron discussion I've yet heard.

The take-away is that, at least until his body declines, the only person that can stop LeBron is LeBron. He is his own worst enemy.


It's hard to communicate the thought that someone that passes so much on the court and gives so much from his financial blessings off the court is an incredibly selfish person, but that really is his problem. As long as he attempts to exert control both overtly in contract, and in his passive-aggressive BS from tweets to injury tweaks, I think his legacy has peaked.

No top talent wants to be his Robin. It takes owner control to put a team around him, and Kyrie has proven that the NBA roster's take of a team total revenue is going to give a young star enough cash in the bank to say, "F*#k you. Enjoy your Crown, King Nothing."
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
He is his own worst enemy. His passive-aggressive relations with management and teammates will probably cost him multiple championships by the time that his career is over.

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cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
He is his own worst enemy. His passive-aggressive relations with management and teammates will probably cost him multiple championships by the time that his career is over.

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I've heard it said that the most difficult thing one can ask from a high-achiever at his peak is objective self-analysis.

LeBron is a very bright young man. I have no doubt that he will recognize one day what he's done to his career by exerting all the control that he can muster over it.

As much as LeBron chafed against Gilbert's control over his first 7 years and resented the shaky roster moves, you'd think he'd have had more empathy for Kyrie in the same boat, but he seemed to see him as subservient and sought to keep him that way. The uber-dominant ego it takes to keep the "li'l brother" narrative rolling will always alienate players that have the ego to push themselves and achieve at a high level. No partner for a King.

It's just all too much.
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
I've heard it said that the most difficult thing one can ask from a high-achiever at his peak is objective self-analysis.

LeBron is a very bright young man. I have no doubt that he will recognize one day what he's done to his career by exerting all the control that he can muster over it.

As much as LeBron chafed against Gilbert's control over his first 7 years and resented the shaky roster moves, you'd think he'd have had more empathy for Kyrie in the same boat, but he seemed to see him as subservient and sought to keep him that way. The uber-dominant ego it takes to keep the "li'l brother" narrative rolling will always alienate players that have the ego to push themselves and achieve at a high level. No partner for a King.

It's just all too much.
To your point on self analysis, I think that is 100% true of most athletes. I think when you find exceptions is when you see true greatness.

For example Roger Federer went a long time without a coach and randomly hired Tony Roche for a couple years in 2005. After that he has rotated coaches from Edberg, Annacone, Ljuibicic etc. He is one of the more introspective players/athletes I have ever seen.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
To your point on self analysis, I think that is 100% true of most athletes. I think when you find exceptions is when you see true greatness.

For example Roger Federer went a long time without a coach and randomly hired Tony Roche for a couple years in 2005. After that he has rotated coaches from Edberg, Annacone, Ljuibicic etc. He is one of the more introspective players/athletes I have ever seen.
LeBron seems to refuse to be coached.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
LeBron seems to refuse to be coached.
This has been an ongoing pattern for a long time. Miami is the only place where he hasn't steamrolled the coach, and it's only because they had a real basketball executive/coach running the show who fully backed Spoelstra. This is probably one of the biggest reasons he returned to Cleveland.

Walton is going to fall on the sword for not being able to tame the untamable. This will sound ridiculous because it is, but when they make a change they should seriously bring Joyce or Dambrot in as an end of bench assistant for the rest of his quality years. It feels like you seriously have to have a personal coach/confidant for this guy.

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cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
This has been an ongoing pattern for a long time. Miami is the only place where he hasn't steamrolled the coach, and it's only because they had a real basketball executive/coach running the show who fully backed Spoelstra. This is probably one of the biggest reasons he returned to Cleveland.

Walton is going to fall on the sword for not being able to tame the untamable. This will sound ridiculous because it is, but when they make a change they should seriously bring Joyce or Dambrot in as an end of bench assistant for the rest of his quality years. It feels like you seriously have to have a personal coach/confidant for this guy.

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And the ego only got bigger in Miami.

James may have gone to LA regardless of what had happened in CLE, as much for his kid to go to that basketball school as anything, but I really think that if he hadn't been a tool to Kyrie they'd be headed for the Finals as Cavs this year and losing to the GSW.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
I am expecting either Jason Kidd, Ty Lue or maybe Mark Jackson to get the job next year.
If LBJ doesn't get his way, it won't matter.

If he gets his way and changes his mind mid-season, it won't matter.

If he doesn't humble himself a bit, it won't matter....... unless they can clone LeBron, because it sure doesn't look like a star wants to play with him.
 

ceebass13

Member
He is "only" 34, but playing into the finals the past 8 years has added a ton of extra games and wear and tear to his body. It is really a matter of time before a significant injury hits him.

It will also be interesting to see who he can attract to come and play with him next year. I would assume that most of the younger guys will be gone.

The next coach will totally have to the LBJ stamp of approval before he is hired.
 

Taco MacArthur

Active member
He is "only" 34, but playing into the finals the past 8 years has added a ton of extra games and wear and tear to his body. It is really a matter of time before a significant injury hits him.

It will also be interesting to see who he can attract to come and play with him next year. I would assume that most of the younger guys will be gone.

The next coach will totally have to the LBJ stamp of approval before he is hired.
Plus his time in FIBA and the Olympics. He's already played the 15th most minutes in the NBA history at 46,170. Adding in his FIBA and Olympics appearances, I'm guessing he's past (or at least pushing) 50,000 minutes of professional ball played. For reference sake, Elvin Hayes has the 6th most NBA minutes played at 50,000 exactly. Kareem is the leader at 57,446.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
They need to make a splash this off-season because as noted, I would be starting to get concerned about major injury risk increasing.

Two years from now he'll be 18 seasons in and north of 50,000 minutes at his current pace, plus all of the international competition time. At that point father time may start to come calling quickly. I wouldn't count on his window as being the best player on a championship caliber team stretching beyond that.

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Raymo

Well-known member
He is "only" 34, but playing into the finals the past 8 years has added a ton of extra games and wear and tear to his body. It is really a matter of time before a significant injury hits him.

It will also be interesting to see who he can attract to come and play with him next year. I would assume that most of the younger guys will be gone.

The next coach will totally have to the LBJ stamp of approval before he is hired.
Maybe LUE,LUE...BAM!
 

14Red

New member
Cowherd says the Lakers should trade LeBron for Zion? Thoughts? That would be pretty baller, but it may be best in the long run for the Lakers?
 

thavoice

Well-known member
If LBJ doesn't get his way, it won't matter.

If he gets his way and changes his mind mid-season, it won't matter.

If he doesn't humble himself a bit, it won't matter....... unless they can clone LeBron, because it sure doesn't look like a star wants to play with him.
You are all wrong.

IT will be....Lebron as the Player. Coach.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
Cowherd says the Lakers should trade LeBron for Zion? Thoughts? That would be pretty baller, but it may be best in the long run for the Lakers?
I'm not sure why anyone would do that. Zion has the possibility of putting up LeBron like numbers for the next 15 years. LeBron looks like his age has caught up to him. I'll be surprised if he's still in the league in 5 years.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I'm not sure why anyone would do that. Zion has the possibility of putting up LeBron like numbers for the next 15 years. LeBron looks like his age has caught up to him. I'll be surprised if he's still in the league in 5 years.
No.

Zion does not have the possibility to put up LeBum like numbers over the next 15 years.

Come on.
 
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