Do we need a shot clock in Ohio high school basketball

Lancermania

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
In a Sectional semi-final game Thursday night, Western Hills held the ball for the final 7:41 of the third quarter against Harrison after Harrison opened the second half with a three pointer to cut the Western Hills lead to three.. No one should have to pay to see this ridiculous stall ball tactic. We need a shot clock period. Colleges use a 30 second clock which makes a lot of sense.
 
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I know it doesn't happen every game. But what we saw with Western Hills and Harrison shouldn't be allowed. Its literally not playing basketball and playing keep away or were not playing defense so we are just going to let you dribble the ball for 7 minutes smdh. But I know the kids here in Ohio can't handle a shot clock, and all the schools are to poor to buy 2 shot clocks and can't find anyone to run them blah blah blah
 
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Lancermania said:
In a Sectional semi-final game Thursday night,

1: Western Hills held the ball for the final 7:41 of the third quarter against Harrison after Harrison opened the second half with a three pointer to cut the Western Hills lead to three..

2: No one should have to pay to see this ridiculous stall ball tactic.

3: We need a shot clock period.

4: Colleges use a 30 second clock which makes a lot of sense.
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1) Basketball, where your defense is supposed to be better than the other team's offence. In 7:41 a team could not force another high school team into a possession mistake. Someone needs to learn defense. That's basketball.
2) you don't have to pay to see it.
3) We don't need grumpy shot clocks.
4) Colleges charge $5 for a $1 hot dog.

Other than that I agree with you.
 
eastisbest said:
1) Basketball, where your defense is supposed to be better than the other team's offence. In 7:41 a team could not force another high school team into a possession mistake. Someone needs to learn defense. That's basketball.
2) you don't have to pay to see it.
3) We don't need grumpy shot clocks.
4) Colleges charge $5 for a $1 hot dog.

Other than that I agree with you.
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No team should be allowed to stall or just sit there on defense for 7 minutes. Its not about people being upset because they paid to watch that crap. It's literally not basketball, that's why they call it stall ball

Some teams are really good at playing keep away on offense
 
Perhaps we need a no zone rule. Every team must play a defense that puts pressure on the ball handler. You could play a 1-2-1 zone with one chaser forcing the count on the player with the ball.

What you pay to see is a chess match between coaches.
 
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I get the cost issue. And the scorekeeper issue. But I saw a playoff game the other night in Massachusetts where a team was up 5 with 4 minutes to go. Sorry to say but my first thought was, thank goodness they have a 30-second shot clock here or we would have "treated" to a ball holding foul fest.
 
Vike16 said:
No team should be allowed to stall or just sit there on defense for 7 minutes. Its not about people being upset because they paid to watch that crap. It's literally not basketball, that's why they call it stall ball

Some teams are really good at playing keep away on offense
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Exactly!

The first "A" in OHSAA stands for athletic. It isn't and s for strategy. It goes against the spirit of competition and sportsmanship. You are basically admitting you are not athletic enough to compete so you need to stall and come up with a gimmick. Seems a bit cowardly IMO. Generally speaking teams that stall are athletically inferior.


Obviously I understand sports involves strategy, scouting, discipline etc. but the problem is have is stall ball and 30‐25 scores makes puts too much of the focus on the strategy and not enough on the athleticism.

Upsets are cute, we all love them but at the end of the day the majority of us participate and watch sports for athleticism not strategy.
 
cdub4 said:
Exactly!

The first "A" in OHSAA stands for athletic. It isn't and s for strategy. It goes against the spirit of competition and sportsmanship. You are basically admitting you are not athletic enough to compete so you need to stall and come up with a gimmick. Seems a bit cowardly IMO. Generally speaking teams that stall are athletically inferior.


Obviously I understand sports involves strategy, scouting, discipline etc. but the problem is have is stall ball and 30‐25 scores makes puts too much of the focus on the strategy and not enough on the athleticism.

Upsets are cute, we all love them but at the end of the day the majority of us participate and watch sports for athleticism not strategy.
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I have seen some athletic teams stall so the other team wouldn't stall on them. IMHO stall ball isn't a basketball strategy it's a win at all cost strategy because you literally stop playing basketball.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I never seen any ball sport on any level that gives the lesser opponent a handicap strategy outside of golf, bowling and high school basketball
 
cdub4 said:
Upsets are cute, we all love them but at the end of the day the majority of us participate and watch sports for athleticism not strategy.
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Yikes!

Vike16 said:
... Its not about people being upset because they paid to watch that crap. It's literally not basketball, that's why they call it stall ball

Some teams are really good at playing keep away on offense
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Apparently it is about paying to some, I quoted it from OP.

So when they call it fast break ball, that's not basketball either? Zone? Man-to-man? Not basketball. Got it. Some teams are really good at playing take away but we don't penalize them. We call it a stat, "steals."

This is like the last election to me. We are becoming people who blame the winners. Blame the loser. Isn't that the refrain from many of the same people when a coach plays his first team against a severely over matched opponent?

Whatever the rules are, you play them. As for changing this rule, you cheapen the game by taking away strategies just because they give teams an opportunity to beat yours. The driving force for many programs will be the cost factor but I think the bigger picture is the cheapening of the game a shot clock would bring. Fine in college but in high school, patience and persistence are the lessons most kids need to learn.

Good luck with your movement though. To each their own.
 
So the decision of the defensive coach to have their kids stand inside the 3 point arc, with their hands on their hips, while the offense..... who has the lead......and has the ball....and is holding the ball near the division line waiting for them to play defense.......

Is somehow the fault of the offense?


Changing the entire game (and that's what a shot clock does) because of the inaction of one coach is silly
.
 
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I wish a lot of fans would quit citing the college game.

Colleges get to pick their players, 99+ percent of high schools only
have the kids that live there; some years good, some years not so good.

Hey... sip down and finish that soda, then take a peeeeeeeeeee break,
a really good health dump or beat the traffic out of the parking lot.

:>---

EGA
 
What if the situation were reversed where the losing team is on offense such as the JC/Russia game last night? Russia was down the entire game and chose to play “stall ball” on offense...

Should JC have come out to play defense? Or let Russia, the losing team, stand there and let the clock run down...
 
StSebastian said:
What if the situation were reversed where the losing team is on offense such as the JC/Russia game last night? Russia was down the entire game and chose to play “stall ball” on offense...

Should JC have come out to play defense? Or let Russia, the losing team, stand there and let the clock run down...
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My school did this exact thing about 10 years ago in a big tournament game. We were trailing in the 3rd quarter (I don't know, by 5 or so), and we held the ball at half court. People fail to realize that holding the ball is a strategy. In that game, the matchup was much better for us if the opposing team would play man-to-man defense, but they were in a zone. We knew they wanted to run, so if we held the ball, they had to come out to guard us. Sure enough, about 1 minute into holding the ball, they came out to guard us and we picked apart their man defense and ended up beating them.
 
StSebastian said:
What if the situation were reversed where the losing team is on offense such as the JC/Russia game last night? Russia was down the entire game and chose to play “stall ball” on offense...

Should JC have come out to play defense? Or let Russia, the losing team, stand there and let the clock run down...
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Coaches choice. If you have confidence in your zone and fear exposure to man defense and you are ahead you have no need to come out of your strength.

At least there is some drama when the ball is being held and the score stays close. Would you rather see a game be essentially over in the first quarter, or stretch it into a close game into the fourth quarter?
 
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StSebastian said:
What if the situation were reversed where the losing team is on offense such as the JC/Russia game last night? Russia was down the entire game and chose to play “stall ball” on offense...

Should JC have come out to play defense? Or let Russia, the losing team, stand there and let the clock run down...
Click to expand...

The coach is responsible for placing his kids in the best position to succeed. He/She gets the accolades if they are successful and gets the darts if they are not. Russia's coach decided to hold the ball. and Jackson Center's coach decided to let him.

A rule should not dictate who has to attack.
 
thePITman said:
My school did this exact thing about 10 years ago in a big tournament game. We were trailing in the 3rd quarter (I don't know, by 5 or so), and we held the ball at half court. People fail to realize that holding the ball is a strategy. In that game, the matchup was much better for us if the opposing team would play man-to-man defense, but they were in a zone. We knew they wanted to run, so if we held the ball, they had to come out to guard us. Sure enough, about 1 minute into holding the ball, they came out to guard us and we picked apart their man defense and ended up beating them.
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I guess that’s my question... although JC is a traditional man to man defense and rarely plays zone (they were not playing zone last night)... Russia just decided to hold it. Should JC have come out being the team in the lead?
 
AllSports12 said:
The coach is responsible for placing his kids in the best position to succeed. He/She gets the accolades if they are successful and gets the darts if they are not. Russia's coach decided to hold the ball. and Jackson Center's coach decided to let him.

A rule should not dictate who has to attack.
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100% agree
 
As stated above, the team losing (6-2) was the one stalling. The offensive team (Russia) is at fault here. Play basketball, coach. You’re down. Run your offense, try to score. That’s what basketball is about.

Jackson Center could play defense and initiate the game if basketball. If I were coaching, I would eventually tell them to pressure the ball. But in this case, the team losing should feel a greater sense of urgency. For some reason, they don’t.
 
Stall ball generally backfires on those who try it. In the D4 Willard district, Mansfield St. Peter's tried to stall out the game vs SMCC and had only 4 points with 3 mins left in the 3rd period when they had to abandon the idea. They eventually lost by 20, 41-21.
 
In the Harrison-West Hi game, Harrison had 2 starters with 3 fouls at half and were only down 3 after opening the 2nd half with a 3. If West Hi wanted to hold it, why would Harrison come pressure? West Hi was more talented at all 5 positions! BTW, Harrison plays all man-to-man, but it would be to their disadvantage to come out and pressure. I have trouble understanding West Hi's strategy, but that is what the tournament is all about. DO WHATEVER YOU FEEL IS NECESSARY (WITHIN THE RULES) TO WIN THE GAME!
 
Talk some sense said:
I get the cost issue. And the scorekeeper issue. But I saw a playoff game the other night in Massachusetts where a team was up 5 with 4 minutes to go. Sorry to say but my first thought was, thank goodness they have a 30-second shot clock here or we would have "treated" to a ball holding foul fest.
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What is the real difference in "stall ball" and "hack-a-Shaq". Are either one of them what some of you would call basketball?
 
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