I’m sure it will be reviewed by the OHSAA in the off-season. More than a few ADs will request a look-see. I wouldn’t mind seeing them in D2.
Division IV State Championship: Glenville (14-0) vs Wyoming (15-0)
- Thread starter EagleFan
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Tell me what advantages does Avon lake have over other schools. When I lived played and attended back in the early 60's I know of none. Avon Lake has closed enrollment at this time so we do have the advantage of students leaving to attend St Edward. I can think of no others Help me out? I left for college in 1963 and when college was over I forgot to go home and have lived in southern Ohio for the last 57 years and 52 in a small farm town in the middle of a corn field. Sad you do not see the advantage Glenville has. Guess winning is all that matter to some people.
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Crimson and Black
Well-known member
I’m not sure I follow you. It’s about compiling so much Unmatched talent in such a small school. Its just not logical, or possible to compile 9 D1 power 5 recruits at 1 small school. If you add up all the other kids playing in D4, I’m not sure you’d find 9 others getting D1 power 5 conference offers. That’s another 100 schools. I know one thing….. that team was not compiled in the spirit and mission of high school football. If it was let’s just open the entire situation to full blown recruiting with no rules. Let kids play where ever they want and allow coaches and booster clubs to “entice” kids.
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dexksim
Well-known member
Avon Lake's median household income is like $98, 309. The poverty rate for families is 3%. Cleveland's household income is much smaller and the poverty rate is much higher. Avon Lake High School consistently receives "Excellent" ratings from the Ohio State Report Card. Those statistics lead to immense advantages in extracurricular activities. Schools like Avon Lake, Hudson, and Upper Arlington are basically closed-enrollment private schools. What city school can compete with that?
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Grim
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Any city (school district) that retains modest affluency and engaged parents.
I recall some Dayton Public schools being powerhouses back in the day. What changed (rhetorical question).
SupremeNothing
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SVillegrad
Well-known member
While I agree that there may be a review, I don't know how much it will make a difference. After looking at things a little deeper, it seems like students from Glenville who attend schools like Ginn are accounted for in some degree in the OHSAA's enrollment numbers.
According to the OHSAA, Glenville had a 9-11 boys enrollment of 213 and a 9-11 girls enrollment of 249. Combined, that is 462 students.
However, if you go to the Ohio Department of Education's enrollment numbers from last fall, the totals listed for Glenville (combined boys and girls) are 197 (9th), 117 (10th) and 108 (11th). That adds up to 334 students in the Glenville building, or a difference of -148 from the OHSAA's combined numbers.
The only way that I can see a discrepancy that large is if students who live in the Glenville "zone" but don't attend Glenville are still included in those OHSAA numbers, and if you look a little further, it seems to add up.
According to the OHSAA numbers, Glenville is listed as being 46 percent male and 54 percent female. Even though the physical Glenville building is more between 60-70 percent female and 30-40 percent male, let's go off the 54-46 split. Going off those percents and using the Ohio Department of Education's numbers by grade at Glenville High School, you would have roughly this for boys:
9th: 91
10th: 54
11th: 50
Total: 194
Even at a 54-46 split, if the OHSAA was basing the numbers only by counting students at the physical Glenville High School building, the Tarblooders would actually be Division V.
Let's add in the Ginn Academy numbers and assume that 100 percent of those students live in the Glenville zone (100 percent absolutely don't btw, but let's pretend). Ginn's numbers are:
9th: 81
10th: 86
11th: 66
Total: 233
So even if you assume that Glenville HS is 46 percent male (it's actually lower) and add every student at Ginn for Glenville's OHSAA number, the readjusted total would be 427, which yes would be Division II, but even using those unrealistic numbers puts them at the lower end of D2.
Realistically, the Glenville building is somewhere between 30-40 percent male, and likely somewhere around 40-50 percent of Ginn students live in the Glenville zone. I'll split the difference there and say that 35 percent of Glenville HS is male and 45 percent of Ginn Academy's students live in the Glenville zone. Adding the numbers back up and you have:
Glenville:
9th: 69
10th: 41
11th: 38
Total: 148
Ginn:
9th: 36
10th: 39
11th: 30
Total: 105
The combined total would then be 253, which is in the same ballpark as what the OHSAA lists, and still would put Glenville in Division IV.
I did this to try to figure out exactly how the OHSAA came up with Glenville's enrollment number. I assumed (looks like wrongly) that the OHSAA only was counting students at the physical Glenville High School building, and I have posted several times that Glenville was more realistically a D3 school if you included the Ginn kids. But it appears that Ginn kids (or kids who go to other district-wide schools set up like Ginn) are being included. If that is the case, then not only is Glenville not gaming the system, but they are likely in the correct division, even adding in the Ginn athletes.
With that, if the OHSAA wants to bump up Glenville, I won't shed a tear. I'm on record on another thread in saying that there should be four (or maybe five) 11-man divisions and then a comprehensive 8-man division for smaller schools (or struggling city schools like Akron North) who wouldn't be able to compete in one of the four (or five) 11-man divisions.
Rack162
Well-known member
CB and Enrollment are not the same.
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
A ZERO CB? Does that not indicate something? Has ANY OPEN ENROLLMENT district ever gotten a zero CB number since it started?
SVillegrad
Well-known member
I realize that, but I doubt Glenville is fudging the CB number (they are so far below the DIV cutoff per the OHSAA count, it wouldn't have made a difference). For one, it's not like Glenville is getting kids from say Strongsville. The ones in question who attended other high schools ... the Arvell Reese's (Euclid) and Bryce West's (Solon) ... likely do actually now reside in the Glenville zone. It's not exactly a hard neighborhood to move into. And both of those players, correct me if I'm wrong, came up through the Glenville youth program. I believe I read that West's dad coached that Glenville youth team that won back to back national titles.
The historically tightest knit black neighborhoods in Cleveland are Glenville on the NE side (once the Jewish population left in the 50s/60s) and Mount Pleasant on the SE side. I'd be willing to bet that a high percent of kids who had families that moved to places like Euclid, Richmond Heights, South Euclid, Cleveland Heights, etc., have strong family ties back to the Glenville neighborhood. So if they move back to Glenville (even if it's for football reasons ... and won't put my head in the sand and say it's not), why would competitive balance be a factor?
If there is evidence that these players who played for Glenville aren't living in Glenville (and Glenville is still reporting a CB number of 0), then that's an argument that should be looked into. But I'm going to give the Glenville administration/Ginn the benefit of the doubt, since they've faced accusations of recruiting for about 25 years (and were put on probation a couple years ago ... though that appears to have involved not reporting a couple of Ginn Academy athletes who lived outside the Glenville zone).
If Glenville started suddenly started fielding D1 white kids on their team and was still claiming a CB number of zero, yeah, that should raise some red flags, lol. Until there is evidence to the contrary, I'm going to assume that this year's Glenville's team consisted entirely of:
1. Kids who live in Glenville and attend Glenville High School
2. Kids who live in Glenville who attend Ginn Academy
3. Kids who once attended a different high school who are now living in Glenville and either attending Glenville HS or Ginn Academy.
Rack162
Well-known member
2022 D4 with Zero CB.
Warrensville Hts
Glenville
Wyoming
Morgan
Fostoria
Vinton
Indian Hill
Shelby
Rack162
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SVillegrad
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Wyoming and Indian Hill (assuming you are correct in them being open enrollment) are the bigger surprise in having a number of 0 than a Glenville or Warrensville Heights.
Rack162
Well-known member
That's a List of ALL D4 schools with 0 CB. I don't have a list of open or closed. Wyoming is closed, but I didn't think they had a bunch of kids that played for other High Schools on their current roster.
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
From the ODE's website master list of school districts and their open enrollment policy for the 2022-2023 school year:
| 045435 | Indian Hill Exempted Village | No Open Enrollment | Only one building per grade level - No policy required |
| 045146 | Wyoming City | No Open Enrollment | Policy allows students to attend alternative schools in District |
All the other schools on that D4 list that have CBs of 0 are in school districts that offer statewide open enrollment.
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
Those are mostly closed enrollments right?
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
No. Only Indian Hill and Wyoming are closed enrollment. The others on that D4 list are in districts that offer statewide open enrollment.
Head Linesman
Well-known member
each set of circumstances is unique, the Glenville circumstances are the most unique of the unique.
D1 and D2 and D3 schools are just glad they don't have to play them in the tournament.
right?
StraightCashHomey
Active member
I think the key thing about #3 is that some of these kids came from other schools but that is only because Glenville did not have a team in 2020 so the players had to go to other schools to play. Then they came back to where they were before 2020 so this team is not "compiled". They just came back to where they were prior to COVID. Also a point to remember is that this class won what I believe was the Pop Warner National Championship in Florida in 2017 as "Ginn Elite" so the talent was there already.
Crimson and Black
Well-known member
Why not, we have 260 home grown boys.
IAMGREAT
Active member
Congrats to Ted Ginn on winning a State Title. It was long overdue. People don't know what it takes to coach in that environment. But would sit here and speak negativity against him and his kids. Hopefully, he will win much more; however, he will always be a winner because he is transforming lives.
ColdWindBlows
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hubman
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Rival Warrensville Heights's marching band steps up to play for Glenville during state championship game
The Glenville Tarblooders made history on their way to the Division IV state championship. The school doesn’t have its own marching band, so a local school played the role for the state title game.
www.news5cleveland.com
cpagan42
Active member
the band was good. but they should not have played over the ceremony at the end of the game.Rival Warrensville Heights's marching band steps up to play for Glenville during state championship game
The Glenville Tarblooders made history on their way to the Division IV state championship. The school doesn’t have its own marching band, so a local school played the role for the state title game.