Division III State Semifinal: Trotwood-Madison (10-3) vs. Bishop Hartley (12-1)

Who wins?

  • Bishop Hartley by 15+

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bishop Hartley by 8-14

    Votes: 9 17.0%
  • Bishop Hartley by 1-7

    Votes: 15 28.3%
  • Trotwood by 1-7

    Votes: 14 26.4%
  • Trotwood by 8-14

    Votes: 14 26.4%
  • Trotwood by 15+

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
You play slow bumpkin schools for three weeks in a row to the point that you're conditioned to subconsciously believe that you're the fastest guy on the field by far and that no one can catch you from behind.
That's not really how it works. You figure out the speed difference in the first few plays or series. But I also didn't see a major difference in speed. It did seem that Trotwood was not in as good a condition. They were hanging on for dear life at the end.
 

rip_JackTatum

Well-known member
That's not really how it works. You figure out the speed difference in the first few plays or series. But I also didn't see a major difference in speed. It did seem that Trotwood was not in as good a condition. They were hanging on for dear life at the end.
" not in as good condition"? To me that just means the players played with all they had. Played to exhaustion. This is the Ohio State Football Final Four ! What are you saving it for ? If the losing team wasn't exhausted at the end, they didn't play hard enough. You don't get to the State Championship title game not being in "condition". Play to your physical limit !
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
" not in as good condition"? To me that just means the players played with all they had. Played to exhaustion. This is the Ohio State Football Final Four ! If the losing team wasn't exhausted at the end, they didn't play hard enough. You don't get to the State Championship title game not being in "condition". Play to the your physical limit !
They seemed to not have large numbers, and they had a lot of kids go down with injury. All games are pretty much the same length. And while some may require more effort than others, they should not be completely exhausted if they are in shape.
 

rip_JackTatum

Well-known member
They seemed to not have large numbers, and they had a lot of kids go down with injury. All games are pretty much the same length. And while some may require more effort than others, they should not be completely exhausted if they are in shape.
Was the losing team exhausted ? Maybe if they had expended more energy........
Screenshot_2019-12-01-19-18-52-1.png
like this guy, they may have won. Pretty darn sure #80 was "in shape".
 
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sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
That's not really how it works. You figure out the speed difference in the first few plays or series.
Yeah, well I’m just observing what I saw. #2 running around on last series like you can’t catch me I’m the gingerbread man instead of smartly dumping the ball before getting tackled by the same kid who beat him twice earlier in the game.
 

member1

Well-known member
That's not really how it works. You figure out the speed difference in the first few plays or series. But I also didn't see a major difference in speed. It did seem that Trotwood was not in as good a condition. They were hanging on for dear life at the end.
Horrible observation. How about a team of 42 players many of which go both way playing game 14 vs. a formidable opponent? To say those kids were not in good condition is just disrespectful. Towards the end of the season the Rams were playing teams with double their numbers and playing well. Many of the younger kids that would be back ups did not play this year due to the tornado that destroyed parts of the town. But still with only 40 or so kids here they are in the state championship game again. I would say 10 to 12 guys going both ways for 15 games means they are probably in better shape than most teams out here. Which is not many since it's only two teams left. Anyway Mansfield poses a bid test as they are an athletic group with size. Similar to Springfield. I just believe the Rams have one more left in them. Ramnation!
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
Horrible observation. How about a team of 42 players many of which go both way playing game 14 vs. a formidable opponent? To say those kids were not in good condition is just disrespectful. Towards the end of the season the Rams were playing teams with double their numbers and playing well. Many of the younger kids that would be back ups did not play this year due to the tornado that destroyed parts of the town. But still with only 40 or so kids here they are in the state championship game again. I would say 10 to 12 guys going both ways for 15 games means they are probably in better shape than most teams out here. Which is not many since it's only two teams left. Anyway Mansfield poses a bid test as they are an athletic group with size. Similar to Springfield. I just believe the Rams have one more left in them. Ramnation!
Most D3 schools have lots of kids going both ways. I played both ways as a kid, one of my sons does too. Hartley has a bunch who go both ways. It was clear at the end of the game, they were much slower to react than early in the game. That is one reason Hartley is such a tough out. They will wear on you and never quit. I'm amazed that you seem offended by this, you guys won the game, and deservedly so.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
Yeah, well I’m just observing what I saw. #2 running around on last series like you can’t catch me I’m the gingerbread man instead of smartly dumping the ball before getting tackled by the same kid who beat him twice earlier in the game.
If #2 wasn't the fastest kid on the field he was probably the no worse than the 2nd fastest. But by the end, Hartley was out of their comfort zone, so the decision making isn't as ingrained in them as when they can do their normal power run game. I was amazed Hartley made it a game at the end. And to be fair, that second TD he gave up was an amazing catch by the Trotwood kid. I was watching the live stream, and there are no replays on that, but it looked to me like he was in position. Just a great play by their guy.
 

rip_JackTatum

Well-known member
Most D3 schools have lots of kids going both ways. I played both ways as a kid, one of my sons does too. Hartley has a bunch who go both ways. It was clear at the end of the game, they were much slower to react than early in the game. That is one reason Hartley is such a tough out. They will wear on you and never quit. I'm amazed that you seem offended by this, you guys won the game, and deservedly so.
No one is offended. Just pointing out the absurdity of implying that a winning team that's advancing to the STATE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME was out of shape. Is a guy collapsing after completing a marathon " out of shape" ? No......they just pushed themselves to the limits. Harder than those who finished BEHIND them.
 

member1

Well-known member
Most D3 schools have lots of kids going both ways. I played both ways as a kid, one of my sons does too. Hartley has a bunch who go both ways. It was clear at the end of the game, they were much slower to react than early in the game. That is one reason Hartley is such a tough out. They will wear on you and never quit. I'm amazed that you seem offended by this, you guys won the game, and deservedly so.
Most Div 3 schools do not play a schedule of Division 1 teams that have double their numbers and in the case of these seniors played 15 games 3 of the four years they have been in the building. Regardless to say that the kids were out of shape and they beat your team was disrespectful. Great game. Bad observation.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
And to be fair, that second TD he gave up was an amazing catch by the Trotwood kid.
Agreed. Can't see it on the replay, but on the first TD the DB broke off coverage and was headed back upfield when the ball was thrown. Just read it wrong, but he was beat on the play.
Regardless to say that the kids were out of shape
Since the game was "over", the wife hit the restroom at the end of the 3rd quarter while a bunch of other Hartley so called fans were walking out. When she returned she asked if the Trotwood JV was in. I told her #6 went back in and was a complete beast. They were playing with reduced intensity, but they just thought the game was over and took the foot off the gas. A thousand people leaving the stadium thought the game was over too. Rams "got back in shape" just fine after the onside kick recovery by the Hawks. I thought they were in fine condition.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
No one is offended. Just pointing out the absurdity of implying that a winning team that's advancing to the STATE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME was out of shape. Is a guy collapsing after completing a marathon " out of shape" ? No......they just pushed themselves to the limits. Harder than those who finished BEHIND them.
Collapsing after the game is not the same as being spent during the game. You can win a game and still be spent before the game is over. Trotwood is an extremely talented team, you win with talent. You must have watched a different game than I did.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
Most Div 3 schools do not play a schedule of Division 1 teams that have double their numbers and in the case of these seniors played 15 games 3 of the four years they have been in the building. Regardless to say that the kids were out of shape and they beat your team was disrespectful. Great game. Bad observation.
We will just have to agree to disagree.
 

sapientia et veritas

Well-known member
And Jackie gets a lot of yuppies these days. It's a bedroom community for the kinds of folks worried about all them scary dark skinned terrist looking people moving into Dublin.
Funny and true story Harry. I ran into Sue and Tom Cutler in the parking lot down at London before the game. Mom yelled "Go Hartley!" to me. Great Catholic family. I'd sat with them on the visitor side in the Hartley state semi final game in London against Alter back in 2016. They were Hartley fans that day too. I congratulated them for the turnaround that Kyle did with London. I said that he had turned those kids tough by getting them up early lifting weights like Coach Blackstone. Mom said the hardest part of that was getting the kids up, and credited Dad with dragging the boys out of bed at oh-dark-thirty every morning for farming work. Mom taught at JA for 30 some years. She sat on the Alder side during the Hartley game but rooted quietly for the Hawks. She said she doesn't like what Plain City has become. A snobby yuppie community like Dublin. LOL. Her exact words. She even pushed up the tip of her nose. Wish you could have been there. You'll have to pick another farm town. Maybe next year we'll play the farm lads from Thornville in the playoffs. That's another team I've always wanted to see the Hawks play.
 

Harrycrane

Well-known member
Funny and true story Harry. I ran into Sue and Tom Cutler in the parking lot down at London before the game. Mom yelled "Go Hartley!" to me. Great Catholic family. I'd sat with them on the visitor side in the Hartley state semi final game in London against Alter back in 2016. They were Hartley fans that day too. I congratulated them for the turnaround that Kyle did with London. I said that he had turned those kids tough by getting them up early lifting weights like Coach Blackstone. Mom said the hardest part of that was getting the kids up, and credited Dad with dragging the boys out of bed at oh-dark-thirty every morning for farming work. Mom taught at JA for 30 some years. She sat on the Alder side during the Hartley game but rooted quietly for the Hawks. She said she doesn't like what Plain City has become. A snobby yuppie community like Dublin. LOL. Her exact words. She even pushed up the tip of her nose. Wish you could have been there. You'll have to pick another farm town. Maybe next year we'll play the farm lads from Thornville in the playoffs. That's another team I've always wanted to see the Hawks play.
Good story , I can't comment on he veracity of just how snobby or yuppified Plain City has become , but don't you dare place them in the same ' Yuppified and Snobbified" 'Class " as Dub-town lol
 

The Dock

Well-known member
The only collapse I saw was Trotwood mentally. But it wasn’t a total collapse by any means, rather the 4th quarter was unraveling poorly for Trotwood (e.g. brilliant onside kick by Hartley, but it should’ve been heads up recovery for TM.) It seemed apparent that Trotwood was playing not to lose by trying to stay ahead on their side of the dwindling clock in an attempt for Hartley to be up against the time (kept running as opposed to trying to push it toward and past the sticks with the air, which TM was successful earlier with.) It was surprising to see Hartley as comfortable and patient as they were with sticking to their bread and butter in the 4th, but even more surprising that TM wasn’t loading the box. TM definitely deserved to win, and I didn’t think they were exhausted at all. They may have been mentally breaking down, but IMO that’s not really an indictment of their team... if anything it was a product of “trying to hold on to win by letting the clock sheer out.” Obviously it worked out but in no small part to the hold Hartley ate on their final drive. That call (good call from what I’m led to surmise) broke Hartley and basically closed the curtains.
 

member1

Well-known member
The only collapse I saw was Trotwood mentally. But it wasn’t a total collapse by any means, rather the 4th quarter was unraveling poorly for Trotwood (e.g. brilliant onside kick by Hartley, but it should’ve been heads up recovery for TM.) It seemed apparent that Trotwood was playing not to lose by trying to stay ahead on their side of the dwindling clock in an attempt for Hartley to be up against the time (kept running as opposed to trying to push it toward and past the sticks with the air, which TM was successful earlier with.) It was surprising to see Hartley as comfortable and patient as they were with sticking to their bread and butter in the 4th, but even more surprising that TM wasn’t loading the box. TM definitely deserved to win, and I didn’t think they were exhausted at all. They may have been mentally breaking down, but IMO that’s not really an indictment of their team... if anything it was a product of “trying to hold on to win by letting the clock sheer out.” Obviously it worked out but in no small part to the hold Hartley ate on their final drive. That call (good call from what I’m led to surmise) broke Hartley and basically closed the curtains.
I agree. Well said.
 

rip_JackTatum

Well-known member
Collapsing after the game is not the same as being spent during the game. You can win a game and still be spent before the game is over. Trotwood is an extremely talented team, you win with talent. You must have watched a different game than I did.
"Saw a different game". what does that mean ?
Takes more than just talent to advance this far. Talent, structure, coaching ( coach former O State/NFL player) CONDITIONING to play with SUSTAINED intensity, brotherhood and other things are factors to reaching this level on a constant basis year after year after year. Use to this though, the lazy narrative over the years has been Trotwood wins with talent alone.
Got a tough one coming up. Hope the guys are in shape 😏
 
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