Division 2 Region 8 playoff discussion

snowman33

snowman33

Active member
Since there are only three weeks left in the regular season, I thought this would be a good time to start talking about seeding, who will likely be in or out, and what has to happen for each of the teams to qualify for the playoffs. Here is how it looks after week 7:

1) Harrison (6-1) 19.2
2) Cincinnati Turpin (7-0) 18.24
3) Cincinnati LaSalle (6-1) 17.29
4) Columbus St. Francis-DeSales (6-1) 15.91
5) Canal Winchester (6-1) 15.67
6) Columbus Walnut Ridge (7-0) 14.70
7) Cincinnati Anderson (5-2) 14.35
8) Cincinnati Winton Woods (5-2) 13.52

9) Xenia (6-1) 13.45
10) Oxford Talawanda (5-2) 11.66
11) Columbus St. Charles (4-3) 10.17
12) Morrow Little Miami (5-2) 9.82
13) Kings Mills Kings (4-3) 9.60
14) Ashville Teays Valley (5-2) 8.67
15) Whitehall Whitehall-Yearling (4-3) 8.30

Obviously there will still be alot of movement and lots of opportunities for teams to move up and qualify for the playoffs. The biggest games this week, in my opinion, are Anderson at Turpin, Elder at Winton Woods, and LaSalle at St. Xavier. There is potential for ALOT of movement after Friday's games. I don't know much about the Columbus area teams that are highly ranked. I've looked at all of their results but can someone fill us in on these teams and if any of them are a legitimate threat to win the region?
 
 
Canal and Walnut Ridge no shot.
DeSales has a History with WW, Anderson and Lasalle .
They will play them tough . Have a All-time Winning record versus Lasalle 7-3, WW 0-2 and Anderson i think 1-2 back when they had their best teams mid 2000's .
They have some good Athletes , 2 good RB's , A decent throwing QB . Defense which is usually their strength was a question mark big time earlier in the year , but seems to be coming along.
If they beat either of Big Red or Hartley then beware . Last 2 games of the year. They beat them both then they will be a tough out.
 
TCSoup said:
Canal and Walnut Ridge no shot.
DeSales has a History with WW, Anderson and Lasalle .
They will play them tough . Have a All-time Winning record versus Lasalle 7-3, WW 0-2 and Anderson i think 1-2 back when they had their best teams mid 2000's .
They have some good Athletes , 2 good RB's , A decent throwing QB . Defense which is usually their strength was a question mark big time earlier in the year , but seems to be coming along.
If they beat either of Big Red or Hartley then beware . Last 2 games of the year. They beat them both then they will be a tough out.
Click to expand...

I dont think Canal and Ridge can be eliminated unless they lose out. The only places where I see a change besides general seeding is that 7 and 8 position. Anderson and WW. If WW cannot beat Elder or Lasalle they wont make it. I believe Anderson has to win out and they play Turpin this Friday. I dont think St Charles has a large shot. According to Drew Pastuer if they win out, LM and Xenia are next in if WW and Anderson dont make it. I think they have to win out as well. Talawanda could qualify if there they have some thing go their way.
 
Manmythlegeng66 said:
I dont think Canal and Ridge can be eliminated unless they lose out. The only places where I see a change besides general seeding is that 7 and 8 position. Anderson and WW. If WW cannot beat Elder or Lasalle they wont make it. I believe Anderson has to win out and they play Turpin this Friday. I dont think St Charles has a large shot. According to Drew Pastuer if they win out, LM and Xenia are next in if WW and Anderson dont make it. I think they have to win out as well. Talawanda could qualify if there they have some thing go their way.
Click to expand...
Sorry misinterpreted what you were asking. Canal should win out looking at their schedule. Walnut Ridge has 2 neighborhood rivalry games left Marion Franklin and Independence , but i expect them to win at least 1 if not both of them. St Charles will be lucky to win 1 more game this year.
DeSales should make it with a Win this Friday versus St Charles but their last 2 games are toss ups. Maybe slight favorite versus Big Red and slight underdog to Hartley ( Which is a rivalry game and for the League title.) Thats a Thursday night game on local TV here.
 
TCSoup said:
Canal and Walnut Ridge no shot.
DeSales has a History with WW, Anderson and Lasalle .
They will play them tough . Have a All-time Winning record versus Lasalle 7-3, WW 0-2 and Anderson i think 1-2 back when they had their best teams mid 2000's .
They have some good Athletes , 2 good RB's , A decent throwing QB . Defense which is usually their strength was a question mark big time earlier in the year , but seems to be coming along.
If they beat either of Big Red or Hartley then beware . Last 2 games of the year. They beat them both then they will be a tough out.
Click to expand...

I think Desales is 1-1 vs Anderson back in 2008.

If Anderson wins out they are in. Assuming a loss at Turpin (hat tip to them for their year so far) they are a coin flip to get in.

Drew Pasteur's Fantastic 50

Rankings, weekly predictions, and playoff projections for Ohio high school football
www.fantastic50.net
 
skins99 said:
I think Desales is 1-1 vs Anderson back in 2008.

If Anderson wins out they are in. Assuming a loss at Turpin (hat tip to them for their year so far) they are a coin flip to get in.

Drew Pasteur's Fantastic 50

Rankings, weekly predictions, and playoff projections for Ohio high school football
www.fantastic50.net
Click to expand...

Even though we aren't in the same region anymore, somehow Troy will still play Anderson week 11 lol
 
Its pretty much win and you are in with the current teams.
LaSalle getting MANHANDLED by CC makes the ST X game very interesting. I predict another L.
Turpin Anderson is another big match up Turpin can take over and keep the #1 seed with a W even though Harrison will most likely win out for the #2 spot.
Winton Woods only has 2 more contest vs. very strong teams win two and no problem. Loose to elder and that makes LaSalle a must win with some help if Talawanda and Xena win out.
 
Agree with the above, Canal and Walnut Ridge should both make playoffs for sure, but are not threats at all to win the regional champ. ZERO threat. If you guys let Canal Winchester win this region, SWO should just hang up their cleats and switch to Cross Country or Soccer, because that's embarrassing. This region is bad, but I really hope it isn't THAT bad.

DeSales is not a good team either, the manhandling by Dublin Jerome is a terrible blemish, especially given Jerome just got beat by 3TDs by a really bad Delaware team. The rest of the games they have played so far are just such a bunch of worthless tomato cans so far, really can't say anything positive about them yet. If they blew out Hartley, then I guess maybe I would re-consider, but there's no way this team is anything near the level of LaSalle or WW.

It's all relative, I guess. So many of these schools play tomato can schedules that give you zero idea of how they are going to stack up against real competition. WW is highly likely to miss the playoffs unless they beat LaSalle, so LaSalle should be extra motivated to win and keep WW out of the playoffs, in which case they should cruise thru this ungodly awful region, despite not being much of a D1 caliber threat like they normally are.

Matters very little because whomever does emerge is going to get flat destroyed by either TCC/AW or Massillon in the final 4.
 
Not sure who are Harrison’s remaining opponents? Harrison Wins Out will they be the number 1 seed? Harrison QB have any college offers in any sport? When I see the Highlights on news it seems he pretty athletic with a big arm.
 
SMARTY22 said:
Not sure who are Harrison’s remaining opponents? Harrison Wins Out will they be the number 1 seed? Harrison QB have any college offers in any sport? When I see the Highlights on news it seems he pretty athletic with a big arm.
Click to expand...

Just got his first offer from Butler University this week. Really good hs qb. Just shows how tough it is to earn an offer at the fbs level at that position.
 
My thoughts.... with some help from the Fantastic 50

Here are the Biggest games that will factor in...

LaSalle v. Winton Woods
LaSalle v. St. X
LaSalle v. Elder
Winton Woods v. Elder
Xenia v. Troy
DeSales v. Stuebenville
DeSales v. Hartley
Walnut Ridge v. Marion-Franklin
Anderson v. Turpin
Little Miami v. Ross
Talawanda v. Ross

1. Cincinnati Turpin (10-0)
2. Harrison (9-1)
3. Columbus St Francis DeSales (8-2)
4. Columbus Walnut Ridge (10-0)
5. Cincinnati LaSalle (6-4)
6. Canal Winchester (9-1)
7. Cincinnati Winton Woods (6-3)
8. Xenia (8-2)

9. Cincinnati Anderson (7-3)
10. Morrow Little Miami (7-3)
11. Oxford Talawanda (7-3)
12. Kings Mills Kings (7-3)
 
Wow, I forgot about the re-doing of the regions this year. Region 8 just got WAY better competition wise and WAY more difficult to make the playoffs. This should be a great region to watch high quality post season play!
 
D
KramericaIndustries said:
Agree with the above, Canal and Walnut Ridge should both make playoffs for sure, but are not threats at all to win the regional champ. ZERO threat. If you guys let Canal Winchester win this region, SWO should just hang up their cleats and switch to Cross Country or Soccer, because that's embarrassing. This region is bad, but I really hope it isn't THAT bad.

DeSales is not a good team either, the manhandling by Dublin Jerome is a terrible blemish, especially given Jerome just got beat by 3TDs by a really bad Delaware team. The rest of the games they have played so far are just such a bunch of worthless tomato cans so far, really can't say anything positive about them yet. If they blew out Hartley, then I guess maybe I would re-consider, but there's no way this team is anything near the level of LaSalle or WW.

It's all relative, I guess. So many of these schools play tomato can schedules that give you zero idea of how they are going to stack up against real competition. WW is highly likely to miss the playoffs unless they beat LaSalle, so LaSalle should be extra motivated to win and keep WW out of the playoffs, in which case they should cruise thru this ungodly awful region, despite not being much of a D1 caliber threat like they normally are.

Matters very little because whomever does emerge is going to get flat destroyed by either TCC/AW or Massillon in the final 4.
Click to expand...

I feel sorry for you. You really must be an unhappy guy. I don't know why you feel the need to trash everyone and everything. I guess you really think Ohio HS football sucks because everyone is trash and plays nobody. I like to bring facts into a debate though so here goes. You say that Region 8 is an "ungodly awful region". I'd love to hear how you decided that. I took a look at the recent history of D2 playoffs and it certainly doesn't back up your opinion. In the last 10 years the Region 8 champion is 9-1 in the Semi Finals and the Region 8 champion has gone on to win 6 of the last 10 state championships with 3 runners up. Four different teams from Region 8 have won titles during that time which certainly indicates a serious depth of quality teams. I believe your team went out in the first round in Region 8 last year.

The Harbin system does a fairly good job of rewarding teams that have played competitive schedules and won games against good teams. All of these unbeatable teams you described are excellent teams for sure. I took a look at who they've beaten and I couldn't help but notice something. Massilon has beaten 3 teams with 5 or more wins, Toledo CC has beaten 1 team, Hoban has beaten 3, Anthony Wayne has beaten 2, and Harrison (leaders of the ungodly awful Region 8) have beaten 4. I'm sure all of those teams are trash and garbage but I still thought it was interesting. The bottom line is that these are all good football teams and all of them have beaten many good teams along the way. We'll see who is the best come playoff time but based on the last 10 years, I like the chances of the Region 8 winner to do well in the semis and finals. Clearly the best D2 region in the state.
 
I think LaSalle is heavy favorite to win R8 despite last week, with WW health issues. Turpin and Harrison fun to watch but their schedules pale compared to LaSalle and WW, different level of competition.
 
R8 is the best D2 region in the state???????
:poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop:

Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.

As with the discussion last year where I tried to warn WW fans how poor their team was going to matchup with the big players in the state, this discussion is about THIS year year alone and I could care less about the "historical significance" of R8 teams, that is absolutely irrelevant for how R8 teams stack up THIS year and does absolutely nothing to refute my points, so if that (and Harbin) are your only talking points, you'd better try again.

Last year, after nearly losing to a 5-5 Olentangy team, WW got running clocks against their next 2 playoff opponents. That should NEVER happen that deep in the playoffs unless we are talking about a team the caliber of like the 2014 LaSalle team or something like that, which we definitely knew WW was not based on their 1st round game (and how the ultimately got blown out by Massillon). R8 was GARBAGE last year and wasn't helped any by how it was redrawn this year.

Harbin does a TERRIBLE job of rewarding teams who have played competitive schedules, the fact that WW is going to miss the playoffs this year is a perfect example of that. All you did above is do a moronic analysis of "who has the most wins", which is exactly what Harbin does, and base the entire analysis on the deeply flawed assumption that the number of wins a team has is the only indicator that can be used to determine the strength of a team.

The fact that Harrison (and similar) has beat a bunch of teams with large numbers of wins means absolutely nothing with the tomato can schedule they play. None of those teams have any meaningful result against a D1 or decent D2 team. This continues to be my point. These teams who play schedules full of D2 and D3 schools learn ABSOLUTELY nothing about how they are going to stack up against a WW/LaSalle, let alone a team like Massillon or Hoban (forgot they are in same region) or TCC/AW. And quite often when they do hit that game, it's a running clock.

Not sure why you are trying to turn my comments about the Toledo teams against me, I highly respect what TCC and AW have done so far this season. I have seen actual games with my eyes and not some dumbed down analysis on wins. I've seen Toledo SJJ live and then some relative teams they've played on youtube (search Mike James) which include TCC, Whitmer, Detroit CC.

TCCs wins over Whitmer and DCC, fully contextualized, are very big wins and show capabilities of an extremely talented football team. As is AWs win 56-14 over TSJJ, who is going to finish 7-3 and has a highly weaponized passing offense with a sure fire D1 QB. There's not a single game played in R8 that looks even remotely as good as any of these 3 wins outside of LaSalle or WW.

Now, if your point was merely to say, the playoff games within R8 that don't involve LaSalle are going to be competitive, I suppose you could have a point there. But once again, you SWO teams have an incredibly poor sense of how you fit in the overall picture of state competitiveness this year due to being lulled into false confidence over the ridiculous schedules you play. At least Turpin had the balls to take on a middling D1 team in Lakota East. But if you want to see how good you really are, schedule a team like Fairfield, or Elder, or Lakota West, or even HH Wayne and then we'll see how good your team actually is.
 
tiger56dad said:
I think LaSalle is heavy favorite to win R8 despite last week, with WW health issues. Turpin and Harrison fun to watch but their schedules pale compared to LaSalle and WW, different level of competition.
Click to expand...

La Salle will have to perform much better up front for that to be the case. I've said all year that LS is as good if not better than anyone in the state at the skills spots. The lines make the difference.
 
KramericaIndustries said:
R8 is the best D2 region in the state???????
:poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop:

Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.

As with the discussion last year where I tried to warn WW fans how poor their team was going to matchup with the big players in the state, this discussion is about THIS year year alone and I could care less about the "historical significance" of R8 teams, that is absolutely irrelevant for how R8 teams stack up THIS year and does absolutely nothing to refute my points, so if that (and Harbin) are your only talking points, you'd better try again.

Last year, after nearly losing to a 5-5 Olentangy team, WW got running clocks against their next 2 playoff opponents. That should NEVER happen that deep in the playoffs unless we are talking about a team the caliber of like the 2014 LaSalle team or something like that, which we definitely knew WW was not based on their 1st round game (and how the ultimately got blown out by Massillon). R8 was GARBAGE last year and wasn't helped any by how it was redrawn this year.

Harbin does a TERRIBLE job of rewarding teams who have played competitive schedules, the fact that WW is going to miss the playoffs this year is a perfect example of that. All you did above is do a moronic analysis of "who has the most wins", which is exactly what Harbin does, and base the entire analysis on the deeply flawed assumption that the number of wins a team has is the only indicator that can be used to determine the strength of a team.

The fact that Harrison (and similar) has beat a bunch of teams with large numbers of wins means absolutely nothing with the tomato can schedule they play. None of those teams have any meaningful result against a D1 or decent D2 team. This continues to be my point. These teams who play schedules full of D2 and D3 schools learn ABSOLUTELY nothing about how they are going to stack up against a WW/LaSalle, let alone a team like Massillon or Hoban (forgot they are in same region) or TCC/AW. And quite often when they do hit that game, it's a running clock.

Not sure why you are trying to turn my comments about the Toledo teams against me, I highly respect what TCC and AW have done so far this season. I have seen actual games with my eyes and not some dumbed down analysis on wins. I've seen Toledo SJJ live and then some relative teams they've played on youtube (search Mike James) which include TCC, Whitmer, Detroit CC.

TCCs wins over Whitmer and DCC, fully contextualized, are very big wins and show capabilities of an extremely talented football team. As is AWs win 56-14 over TSJJ, who is going to finish 7-3 and has a highly weaponized passing offense with a sure fire D1 QB. There's not a single game played in R8 that looks even remotely as good as any of these 3 wins outside of LaSalle or WW.

Now, if your point was merely to say, the playoff games within R8 that don't involve LaSalle are going to be competitive, I suppose you could have a point there. But once again, you SWO teams have an incredibly poor sense of how you fit in the overall picture of state competitiveness this year due to being lulled into false confidence over the ridiculous schedules you play. At least Turpin had the balls to take on a middling D1 team in Lakota East. But if you want to see how good you really are, schedule a team like Fairfield, or Elder, or Lakota West, or even HH Wayne and then we'll see how good your team actually is.
Click to expand...

You are a little off in your thoughts about Harrison. Harrison played Indiana State Champion East Central and Anderson Regional finalist and did just fine. They also blew out LM who was second round team last year. I think Harrison will hold there own in the region and state wise who knows. They have a very special QB and a talented well coached team.
 
KramericaIndustries said:
Harbin does a TERRIBLE job of rewarding teams who have played competitive schedules, the fact that WW is going to miss the playoffs this year is a perfect example of that. All you did above is do a moronic analysis of "who has the most wins", which is exactly what Harbin does, and base the entire analysis on the deeply flawed assumption that the number of wins a team has is the only indicator that can be used to determine the strength of a team.
Click to expand...

The Harbins actually do a remarkable job of getting the right teams into the playoffs. There is simply no OBJECTIVE way to determine "strength of schedule." Just because you determine a schedule weak or strong doesn't mean others agree. You are just uttering opinions.

What the Harbin ratings do is OBJECTIVELY determine who should be ranked where.... not only by their record, but by their opponents' records that they have defeated. It does this with a CONCRETE formula, that takes people's opinions out of it. Schools either need to win more games and beat teams who win also. Winning teams who beat other teams with winning records are normally pretty good, even if you think they played a weak schedule.

There will be teams in R8 that have won 8 games and not make the playoffs. That sucks, but such is life..... win 9 games next year or schedule different out of conference opponents who will get you more Harbin points. It's not like the formula is top secret and Ohio only lets "certain" teams into the playoffs. It isn't perfect, but it is as close as it gets. If you don't like it, go to one of our bordering states where teams atrociously terrible teams make the "tournament." Yay.... participation trophies!

Region 8 is traditionally a very strong region, as stated before, they have been in 9 of the past 10 state championships and won 6 of them. I think the previous poster whom you ridiculed truly understands where SW Ohio is in regards to the rest of the state..... being in 9 of the past 10 state championships doesn't really get much better for a region.
 
KramericaIndustries said:
R8 is the best D2 region in the state???????
:poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop::poop:

Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.

As with the discussion last year where I tried to warn WW fans how poor their team was going to matchup with the big players in the state, this discussion is about THIS year year alone and I could care less about the "historical significance" of R8 teams, that is absolutely irrelevant for how R8 teams stack up THIS year and does absolutely nothing to refute my points, so if that (and Harbin) are your only talking points, you'd better try again.

Last year, after nearly losing to a 5-5 Olentangy team, WW got running clocks against their next 2 playoff opponents. That should NEVER happen that deep in the playoffs unless we are talking about a team the caliber of like the 2014 LaSalle team or something like that, which we definitely knew WW was not based on their 1st round game (and how the ultimately got blown out by Massillon). R8 was GARBAGE last year and wasn't helped any by how it was redrawn this year.

Harbin does a TERRIBLE job of rewarding teams who have played competitive schedules, the fact that WW is going to miss the playoffs this year is a perfect example of that. All you did above is do a moronic analysis of "who has the most wins", which is exactly what Harbin does, and base the entire analysis on the deeply flawed assumption that the number of wins a team has is the only indicator that can be used to determine the strength of a team.

The fact that Harrison (and similar) has beat a bunch of teams with large numbers of wins means absolutely nothing with the tomato can schedule they play. None of those teams have any meaningful result against a D1 or decent D2 team. This continues to be my point. These teams who play schedules full of D2 and D3 schools learn ABSOLUTELY nothing about how they are going to stack up against a WW/LaSalle, let alone a team like Massillon or Hoban (forgot they are in same region) or TCC/AW. And quite often when they do hit that game, it's a running clock.

Not sure why you are trying to turn my comments about the Toledo teams against me, I highly respect what TCC and AW have done so far this season. I have seen actual games with my eyes and not some dumbed down analysis on wins. I've seen Toledo SJJ live and then some relative teams they've played on youtube (search Mike James) which include TCC, Whitmer, Detroit CC.

TCCs wins over Whitmer and DCC, fully contextualized, are very big wins and show capabilities of an extremely talented football team. As is AWs win 56-14 over TSJJ, who is going to finish 7-3 and has a highly weaponized passing offense with a sure fire D1 QB. There's not a single game played in R8 that looks even remotely as good as any of these 3 wins outside of LaSalle or WW.

Now, if your point was merely to say, the playoff games within R8 that don't involve LaSalle are going to be competitive, I suppose you could have a point there. But once again, you SWO teams have an incredibly poor sense of how you fit in the overall picture of state competitiveness this year due to being lulled into false confidence over the ridiculous schedules you play. At least Turpin had the balls to take on a middling D1 team in Lakota East. But if you want to see how good you really are, schedule a team like Fairfield, or Elder, or Lakota West, or even HH Wayne and then we'll see how good your team actually is.
Click to expand...

I disagree with you on the Harbin system. It rewards teams who schedule and BEAT other good teams. It's not perfect but I've yet to see anything better. Your entire argument is based on your OPINION. You alone have decided that the teams that Harrison, Turpin, Anderson, etc. have beaten are garbage. Based on what facts? Your opinions are based on your own biases and that is my issue. You've decided that TCC's two wins and AW's win are more impressive than Harrison, Turpin, or Anderson's wins. There is no way of measuring that. It's your opinion and it's based strictly on your bias against Region 8. You've decided that Massillon has beaten a bunch of great teams and that they will destroy whoever comes out of our region. Based on what? They've beaten three teams with 5 or more wins. Harrison has beaten 4 teams with 5 or more wins. Why are the teams Massillon has beaten better than the teams Harrison has beaten? How can you possibly know that? The answer is that you can't know that. I'm not saying that Harrison, Turpin, or Anderson is better than Massillon or Hoban or any of these other teams that you worship. I'm saying that those are all very good football teams who have beaten other good football teams.

Also, why should Harrison play Fairfield, Elder, LW, or Wayne? We're in the bottom 1/3 of D2 teams based on enrollment. We're a public school that gets all of our kids from our town. Why do we need to play huge division 1 teams to somehow prove how good we are? We're not SUPPOSED to be able to beat Elder, Fairfield, or any of those teams. I'm not saying we can't beat them or wouldn't beat them, just that we aren't supposed to be able to beat them. We played the top ranked 4A team in Indiana and lost to them 10-7 in OT. That's the equivalent of D2 in Ohio. We beat Anderson in OT who was a regional finalist last year. We play both of those teams every year. We schedule quality opponents every year and have nothing to apologize for. We don't need to play huge division 1 schools to find out if we're a good division 2 team. We need to play very good division 2 teams and that's exactly what we do every year.
 
LOL, you guys are ridiculous.

If Winton Woods loses these next 2 and doesn't make the playoffs at all, that means the playoff system is EXTREMELY off. That is not an opinion, that is a fact. Wins don't determine strength of a team, that is a factual statement and why college rating systems like S/P+ are used by smart handicappers instead of dumbed down "win analysis" and coaches polls.

Winton Woods would beat every one of these "playoff" teams in the region besides LaSalle, and some of them with a running clock, like they did twice in the playoffs last year. MAYBE they would lose one other game in a round robin because their coaching is so poor. At the absolute worst they should be a 4 seed in this region. But because this playoff system is such garbage, they are going to be excluded.

Hilarious to continually see all these clueless comments about how you've "not seen a better system". The harbin computer has been around since when, the 70s? It takes a pretty incredible moron to not understand the advances that have been made since that time in data modeling and analytics that could potentially be used to measure the relative strength of these teams.

I could care less if your team finished 9-1. If it did that by playing a bunch of D3 and .500 D2 schools and you would get blown out by a team like WW who is actually playing good teams, then who deserves to be in? Do we want the best teams in the playoffs or the teams with the most wins? Because those 2 things are frequently not the same thing.

The strength of a region 2, 4, or 8 years ago has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how good it is this year. R8 was GARBAGE last year. All indications seem to be that it continues to be this year, it's only win against a big school you could even remotely call marquee is LaSalle over Lakota West.

Anderson had a RUNNING CLOCK put on them in a playoff game last year, stop telling me that team was good. We are talking about state quality here, that team lost to a 4-6 walnut hills team and lost by over 40 to Milford. And had a RUNNING CLOCK against them in the playoffs. You have to be joking if you are telling me that beating that team is some huge accomplishment. Sure, it probably is to SWO hilljacks with absolutely zero sense of how good football is in the rest of the state, but that is absolutely laughable that you would pull that in to try to help your argument.

Little Miami had a RUNNING CLOCK put on them in a playoff game. Beating them helps your argument? LOOOOOOOOOOL

I'm glad you have such fond memories of how competitive R8 was 6 years ago. When this season is over, you'll be 2 straight years of having ZERO impact on the state D2 picture, which is an emerging trend. Most people would care about the prospects of what future games are going to hold, and not be so hung up on the past, but I guess if my team/region were so insignificant I would have nothing better to do than hang onto 5 year old memories too.
 
Last edited:
KramericaIndustries said:
LOL, you guys are ridiculous.

If Winton Woods loses these next 2 and doesn't make the playoffs at all, that means the playoff system is EXTREMELY off. That is not an opinion, that is a fact. Wins don't determine strength of a team, that is a factual statement and why college rating systems like S/P+ are used by smart handicappers instead of dumbed down "win analysis" and coaches polls.

Winton Woods would beat every one of these "playoff" teams in the region besides LaSalle, and some of them with a running clock, like they did twice in the playoffs last year. MAYBE they would lose one other game in a round robin because their coaching is so poor. At the absolute worst they should be a 4 seed in this region. But because this playoff system is such garbage, they are going to be excluded.

Hilarious to continually see all these clueless comments about how you've "not seen a better system". The harbin computer has been around since when, the 70s? It takes a pretty incredible moron to not understand the advances that have been made since that time in data modeling and analytics that could potentially be used to measure the relative strength of these teams.

I could care less if your team finished 9-1. If it did that by playing a bunch of D3 and .500 D2 schools and you would get blown out by a team like WW who is actually playing good teams, then who deserves to be in? Do we want the best teams in the playoffs or the teams with the most wins? Because those 2 things are frequently not the same thing.

The strength of a region 2, 4, or 8 years ago has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how good it is this year. R8 was GARBAGE last year. All indications seem to be that it continues to be this year, it's only win against a big school you could even remotely call marquee is LaSalle over Lakota West.

Anderson had a RUNNING CLOCK put on them in a playoff game last year, stop telling me that team was good. We are talking about state quality here, that team lost to a 4-6 walnut hills team and lost by over 40 to Milford. And had a RUNNING CLOCK against them in the playoffs. You have to be joking if you are telling me that beating that team is some huge accomplishment. Sure, it probably is to SWO hilljacks with absolutely zero sense of how good football is in the rest of the state, but that is absolutely laughable that you would pull that in to try to help your argument.

Little Miami had a RUNNING CLOCK put on them in a playoff game. Beating them helps your argument? LOOOOOOOOOOL

I'm glad you have such fond memories of how competitive R8 was 6 years ago. When this season is over, you'll be 2 straight years of having ZERO impact on the state D2 picture, which is an emerging trend. Most people would care about the prospects of what future games are going to hold, and not be so hung up on the past, but I guess if my team/region were so insignificant I would have nothing better to do than hang onto 5 year old memories too.
Click to expand...

You continue to show your ignorance. SP+ does not reward scheduling "difficult" games.

The following is from the creator of SP+...

"SP+ is intended to be predictive and forward-facing. That is important to remember. It is not a résumé ranking that gives credit for big wins or particularly brave scheduling."

That wouldn't necessarily help Winton Woods. In fact, SP+ seems to reward those teams who won more consistently. I mean Ohio State is number 1 according to SP+.... According to your logic they should not even be in the conversation with the absolute cupcake schedule they play.

Keep talking out your about region 8. Last year was the first year in a decade they weren't in state championship. This year may be the second, I doubt it personally, but that doesnt mean it's weak.
 
KramericaIndustries said:
LOL, you guys are ridiculous.

If Winton Woods loses these next 2 and doesn't make the playoffs at all, that means the playoff system is EXTREMELY off. That is not an opinion, that is a fact. Wins don't determine strength of a team, that is a factual statement and why college rating systems like S/P+ are used by smart handicappers instead of dumbed down "win analysis" and coaches polls.

Winton Woods would beat every one of these "playoff" teams in the region besides LaSalle, and some of them with a running clock, like they did twice in the playoffs last year. MAYBE they would lose one other game in a round robin because their coaching is so poor. At the absolute worst they should be a 4 seed in this region. But because this playoff system is such garbage, they are going to be excluded.

Hilarious to continually see all these clueless comments about how you've "not seen a better system". The harbin computer has been around since when, the 70s? It takes a pretty incredible moron to not understand the advances that have been made since that time in data modeling and analytics that could potentially be used to measure the relative strength of these teams.

I could care less if your team finished 9-1. If it did that by playing a bunch of D3 and .500 D2 schools and you would get blown out by a team like WW who is actually playing good teams, then who deserves to be in? Do we want the best teams in the playoffs or the teams with the most wins? Because those 2 things are frequently not the same thing.

The strength of a region 2, 4, or 8 years ago has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how good it is this year. R8 was GARBAGE last year. All indications seem to be that it continues to be this year, it's only win against a big school you could even remotely call marquee is LaSalle over Lakota West.

Anderson had a RUNNING CLOCK put on them in a playoff game last year, stop telling me that team was good. We are talking about state quality here, that team lost to a 4-6 walnut hills team and lost by over 40 to Milford. And had a RUNNING CLOCK against them in the playoffs. You have to be joking if you are telling me that beating that team is some huge accomplishment. Sure, it probably is to SWO hilljacks with absolutely zero sense of how good football is in the rest of the state, but that is absolutely laughable that you would pull that in to try to help your argument.

Little Miami had a RUNNING CLOCK put on them in a playoff game. Beating them helps your argument? LOOOOOOOOOOL

I'm glad you have such fond memories of how competitive R8 was 6 years ago. When this season is over, you'll be 2 straight years of having ZERO impact on the state D2 picture, which is an emerging trend. Most people would care about the prospects of what future games are going to hold, and not be so hung up on the past, but I guess if my team/region were so insignificant I would have nothing better to do than hang onto 5 year old memories too.
Click to expand...

Pretty good points. But Winton Woods coaching is far from being poor.
 
cincifbfan said:
You continue to show your ignorance. SP+ does not reward scheduling "difficult" games.

The following is from the creator of SP+...

"SP+ is intended to be predictive and forward-facing. That is important to remember. It is not a résumé ranking that gives credit for big wins or particularly brave scheduling."

That wouldn't necessarily help Winton Woods. In fact, SP+ seems to reward those teams who won more consistently. I mean Ohio State is number 1 according to SP+.... According to your logic they should not even be in the conversation with the absolute cupcake schedule they play.

Keep talking out your about region 8. Last year was the first year in a decade they weren't in state championship. This year may be the second, I doubt it personally, but that doesnt mean it's weak.
Click to expand...

I want to first off say I am pro WW being in the playoffs. It would be very disheartening for Miyan to finish his HS career without one more shot.

With that said the teams who are stuck in low level divisions deserve a chance at the promised land. Those kids did not do anything to play that schedule. But if they are successful they deserve a post season. If they pull off 8-10 wins that's nothing to sneeze at no matter the competition level. I wish they could come up with a way to let every school in like Indy. But there are just too many schools.
 
So your argument is that because these lower tier schools "deserve a chance" that a team like Xenia, who lost to a 2-5 D1 program in Beavercreek, or Talawanda or Little Miami, who played ZERO D1 schools at all, that they get in before WW does?

This is an adult conversation and it requires making decisions, not talking about some feel-good fairytale land where everyone gets a shot. We have to make decisions about who we want. Do you want the best teams or the teams with the most wins? Those aren't the same thing. And you can't have it both ways.

If we decide we want the best teams, there are infinitely better ways of determining who the best teams are, and building a computer model to do this is a common practice. Though deeply flawed, Drew50 is an example of someone taking a stab at this. Their top 8 region teams are a far more rational look at how these teams stack up vs. that ridiculous Harbin crap. All it takes is agreement that we need to make a change and to put a team down the path of building a better model.

In the current model, Harrison gets points for their win over 2-5 D3 Butler that count toward the playoffs and WW gets ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if they lose 42-41 to Elder. If you are an advocate for this incredibly F-d up model, then there is no hope for you and you haven't a clue what the term "fair" even means.
 
KramericaIndustries said:
So your argument is that because these lower tier schools "deserve a chance" that a team like Xenia, who lost to a 2-5 D1 program in Beavercreek, or Talawanda or Little Miami, who played ZERO D1 schools at all, that they get in before WW does?

This is an adult conversation and it requires making decisions, not talking about some feel-good fairytale land where everyone gets a shot. We have to make decisions about who we want. Do you want the best teams or the teams with the most wins? Those aren't the same thing. And you can't have it both ways.

If we decide we want the best teams, there are infinitely better ways of determining who the best teams are, and building a computer model to do this is a common practice. Though deeply flawed, Drew50 is an example of someone taking a stab at this. Their top 8 region teams are a far more rational look at how these teams stack up vs. that ridiculous Harbin crap. All it takes is agreement that we need to make a change and to put a team down the path of building a better model.

In the current model, Harrison gets points for their win over 2-5 D3 Butler that count toward the playoffs and WW gets ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if they lose 42-41 to Elder. If you are an advocate for this incredibly F-d up model, then there is no hope for you and you haven't a clue what the term "fair" even means.
Click to expand...

Winton Woods should get no credit if they didnt win. And knowing them and their posters (God Rest his soul the Great DMR) would say the same. And I hope they win and can get in. You have to win the games that are scheduled. WW is crazy situation because they are an independent. WW will be in a fairer situation after they are in the ECC next year. I think it is more important to award teams that win games instead of just showing up. Would we give them the same points if they loss 42-28 to Elder? There is no way to rate it. While your idea makes sense on some levels. The only way you could pull it off is to separate teams by potential of the team or history of the team. Or to put every team in a playoff where the best would automatically win out. The other flaw I see in it is what if its a down year for Elder (say like Moeller) what do you do then? You dont know how good a HS team is until the season plays out. Moeller is a perennial power who is experiencing some down years. Should they make the playoffs this year because they play nothing but top flight competition? Because Im sure Moeller would trounce and LM or a Hamilton in D1. Eventually you have to win games no matter what. The best schedules that are out there are the ones that have balance. That is why teams in the big conferences like the ECC, GMC, and GWOC on the public side tend to have successful teams. They are the best of both worlds. They have teams inside their league that run that spectrum so scheduling is much easier..... BTW this is the way you have a conversation with someone in a respectful manner!
 
KramericaIndustries said:
So your argument is that because these lower tier schools "deserve a chance" that a team like Xenia, who lost to a 2-5 D1 program in Beavercreek, or Talawanda or Little Miami, who played ZERO D1 schools at all, that they get in before WW does?

This is an adult conversation and it requires making decisions, not talking about some feel-good fairytale land where everyone gets a shot. We have to make decisions about who we want. Do you want the best teams or the teams with the most wins? Those aren't the same thing. And you can't have it both ways.

If we decide we want the best teams, there are infinitely better ways of determining who the best teams are, and building a computer model to do this is a common practice. Though deeply flawed, Drew50 is an example of someone taking a stab at this. Their top 8 region teams are a far more rational look at how these teams stack up vs. that ridiculous Harbin crap. All it takes is agreement that we need to make a change and to put a team down the path of building a better model.

In the current model, Harrison gets points for their win over 2-5 D3 Butler that count toward the playoffs and WW gets ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if they lose 42-41 to Elder. If you are an advocate for this incredibly F-d up model, then there is no hope for you and you haven't a clue what the term "fair" even means.
Click to expand...

Short of putting pretty much every team in the playoffs you will occasionally have a situation like this. I am looking for a playoff system that rewards a team that loses 33% of their games while only taking roughly 25% of the teams. None of the NCAA Football playoffs seem to do that. Bowl Series level you can lose once and still get in but that is about it.

I guess the question I want to pose to you is when do you plan on creating a good strength of schedule component to either add to the harbins system (pretty damn good system) or a system to replace the harbins system?

Second follow up question. Did the staff at Winton Woods not know about how teams qualify for the playoffs in Ohio?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top