Fried Bacon
Well-known member
They might win a game or 2 but they aren’t competing for that region.
D3 2025 early outlook.
- Thread starter Genevaeagle
- Start date
Must change off to compete. Jackson is so run heavy in condensed formations.. Deeper you go, more you need to bring multiple ways to attack.
Fried Bacon
Well-known member
Unless you are like St. Mary’s or London with the wing T, being an I formation heavy run team will not enable you to advance very deep unless you are just that much more dominant than everyone. After the second round most teams you’ll play can score in a hurry. You gotta be able to keep up
even London got smoked with that in semi's last year.
Eagle_Panther
Active member
I don't know much about 2025 Jackson football but I'm not sure how anyone can be so confident that they couldn't make a run in R12. There's not a dominate team in R12. It's been the weakest region in DIII for the past few years. Maybe now that Badin is back things change but everyone else in that region is/has been kidding themselves if they think they've got a chance of running the table to Canton.
Fried Bacon
Well-known member
I totally disagree. While Region 12 hasn’t had 1 dominant team that can win state like TCC or Watterson, since Trotwood’s run. it has been one of the toughest regions to get out of just based on the sheer number of quality teams. I don’t understand the infatuation with Badin either, They won the region one time 4 years ago. Region 12 has had a different winner each of the last 6 years
2024- London
2023- Celina
2022- Tipp
2021- Badin
2020- Alter
2019- Trotwood
While none of the last 3 winners advanced to the state title game, R12 had a team in the state title in from 2016-2019 and 2021, with Trotwood winning in 2017 and 2019. Region 12 annually has 4-5 teams in the AP top 10. My point is, in reference to Jackson, is that region 12 has been one of the toughest regions to get out of and has 4-5 programs each year that could win the region. Jackson is a great program, but they haven’t been past the regional semis since 2015 and have never won their region. I don’t think this will be the year either.
Eagle_Panther
Active member
You kind of make my point when you admit the region hasn't had 1 dominant team since Trotwood, at least when it comes to Jackson. There's not a dominate team. Even the teams that are really good, if they have an injury or two, it seems to derail their entire playoff run. I just don't get the surety of saying Jackson can't compete in this region. I think if you're a top 6 seed in R12 you've got as good a shot as anyone to win it. That speaks to the parity of the region, just like having 6 different winners the past 6 seasons is parity, and I like parity, but parity doesn't equal strength.
The past 3 seasons the R11 winner is 3-0 vs the R12 winner with an average margin of victory of +23. R10 is 2-1 vs R9 in that same timeframe and the average margin of victory is 5. Those Trotwood teams were dominate but Mo Douglass... Not to open a can of worms but the 2 strongest privates in R12 (Badin and Alter) bounce around divisions, maybe if they were consistently D3 the region would be consistently stronger on a state level but right now it just isn't.
agree -- London was a monster, until they weren't vs watty. They were tough kids and punched watty in mouth in the first Q but that blurr they saw was Weber running for 200 yds and every receiver scored TD in a 5 minute span in 2nd Q. I can only imagine what that locker room was like at half time.
I think the difference between Ursiline, TCC and Watty was small but London was not on same level.
Douglass wasn't the coach when Twood won in 19' and 17'.
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BBfootball92
Well-known member
Bellbrook , Mary’s and London have so
Many options with the wing t
Coming from Hartley, if you can’t do more than run the ball you will face issues when you go against good defensive teams!! You need to be able to throw to win championships now. Wing T’s good until you play a Watterson of TCC and they can shut the run down!
Fried Bacon
Well-known member
Yeah that was kind of my point, but other run heavy schemes outside of the Wing-T don’t usually have as many options/wrinkles
From the sound of things, Hartley will be throwing the ball all over the yard this year so I expect nothing but a state championship this year. Watterson is very very good right now, but up until about 3 years ago Hartley was putting 40 points up on them. No disrespect to Watterson, without a doubt they are THE best team in the state, but if you think the magic bullet is "throw the ball more" you are showing little football knowledge. How about Watterson is really good now because they have really good players. Just like Hartley was really good when they had really good players.
What London runs is perfect for their kids and they get the most out of their kids by using their system. If you think they should just "throw the ball more" do you really think they beat Watterson? Heck no. I would argue their only chance to beat Watterson was what their offense did. Just an opinion of course, because I understand how much football has changed in the last 3 years
At what point did I throw shade at Watterson? If anything I’m showing them love by saying you need to be more than one dimensional to beat them!! They are the team to beat in D3 hands down! If you don’t have the threat of the pass game it will be curtains for you against Watty!! Throwing the ball 4-6 times a game won’t be enough to beat them!! They’re defense with the 4LBs running down hill will stop the run every time!
On the Hartley front yes they will be formidable this season to do opening up the offense. They have always had talent but now you can get it all on the field at one time! They also have the best running back in central Ohio in the backfield! With that being said they may have some growing pains but by late October I expect them to be a tough out for whoever their matched up against!
So with the best running back in Ohio, Hartley need to throw more? Got it. How many passes will it take to beat Watterson? Westerville North threw it 40 times and lost 40-6, did they do it wrong? Should they have thrown it 50 times? Has Hartley not done well with talent before this year? I bet they've never won before because they only threw it 6 times a game....How about Chardon how have they done? They are known for opening up and throwing it around
Why are you getting so worked up over somebody's opinion lol
Hahahaha. Sorry if I hurt anyone feelings. I’m going to meditate now
Bidenomics
Well-known member
That noise would be a fart sound.
It’s about balance. Also need talent in that equation. Went a little off the deep end my guy!
I gotcha...sorry again for hurting your feelings...I was just trying to understand what you meant....You said you can't win against good defenses and not throw the ball.. I said that it's really about the players and not necessarily about throwing the ball. It was just a difference of opinion.
Do you think Hartley would have won against Watterson if they threw the ball more?
Do you think Hartley would have won against Watterson if they threw the ball more?
Didn’t hartley win a whole bunch of state championships doing it that way? Haven’t they beaten watterson and Central?
Not necessarily. Last year Hartley lost to Watty 28-13, with the game being 21-13 in the fourth quarter with 9 minutes remaining. The offense Hartley ran was not conducive for spreading the ball around. 1 to two man routes was about the most you would’ve gotten. I do believe they have a better chance this year of making Watterson sweat a little and maybe give themselves a chance to win in the end. Also a side note, no hurt feelings the way brotha!
This post is very confusing to me. You said this year you have a better chance to give yourself “a chance to win in the end”. But that’s exactly what happened this year with it being 21-13 in the 4th quarter. Isn’t that what you want? Wasn’t it blowing rain for this game? Again I don’t want to go off the deep end but just trying to understand your logic. Anyway good luck this year brotha
41-6 vs WN and it could have been thrown 100 times and would not have mattered.
I actually agree with you both on different points. A lot of this is about player quality, but not all. Watty had ZERO D1 kids off last years senior class. In fact, Watterson beat TCC on heart and coaching mainly. I have said before I think TCC was 15%-20% more talented then watty (Skill and size of kids). That said, I watched the 2021 Watty Hartley slaughter of Watterson and if they played 100 times Watterson wouldn't have won. Hartley talent was too great in that season regardless of coaching or heart....
Having a passing attack does matter but it must be effective to have an impact. Yeah Westerville North threw 40 times but it was poorly designed and poorly executed so worthless. Watterson and TCC defenses were so good, you had to be able to slow them down with ability to do either. Both Watty and TCC got to game by running ball a lot in playoffs but each threw at times on early downs to make sure box wasn't just overloaded and creating obvious pass only scenarios on 3rd downs. and still a struggle for both.
Hartley wasn't really very close to Watterson last year. 21-0 at half before conditions, the monsoon, rolls in and Watty fumbles on its 25. Then 7 minutes later a blocked punt and Hartley got ball on Watty 2 yd line. That weather crushed watty for the 3rd quarter and Hartley couldn't really move it either they just played better Def in weather and got ball deep. As soon as it died down, back to pound town where they ran same play 7 straight times in the A gap for 72 yards and a TD to put game away. I have always liked Hartley kids effort. I think Burchfield really got a lot of of kids and they were prepared and mentally tough. Talent gap was wide last year for sure for the first time in a long time IMO.
Everything you said about last years Watty game is true. Both teams played in those conditions and Hartley gained the momentum!! Watty had a championship drive to end the game! I will argue the talent gap point. Hartley had 3 D-1 players last year. Winbush going to Valpo and Cook going to Pitt. Latham the RB had 14 D1 offers and is back this year. They also have a few rising Sophomores and Freshman with D-1 offers and receiving D-1 looks. Like I’ve mentioned in previous post Hartley has a lot of talent and it will be fun to see them on the field all at once!! Watterson is still the class of the CCL but I am sure if you speak to their players and coaches they are a little worried about Hartley opening things up. Not fear but just know that it could be a problem.
College offers and HS talent are 2 very different things..... college offers are mostly size/speed speculation for future. When you watched the game, did you think Latham was better then Weber? Almost nobody did including the YAMO Hartley announcers. Latham is 2 inches taller and 20lbs more and a year younger. Does he have higher ceiling in three years? D1 coaches say yes. Was he better last year - NO
Watty had zero D1 seniors (Jake U and Zack Weber went D2 college) but 2 Juniors already have D1 offers and 3 sophs have D1 offers.
Weber was better in the game because he got the blocks! Latham did not. As far as totality and individually Latham was better last season. Hartleys announcers were barely heard during the telecast due to technical difficulties!!
Yes Watterson will reap the benefits of a state championship season and kids will get offers as a result. I have Nothing to hate on Watterson about. Hell I coaches against most of their current kids when they were in grade school football and I root for them! In knowing the kids I know they are a little worried about what Hartley has coming.
So what you are saying is Hartley's oline was poor? I watched it, it was not a bad oline..... and don't tell me watty def too good, TCC was just as special on def and Weber ran for 136, a td and game MVP........
Everyone has an opinion, I respect yours. I would say a kid who played both ways (had 70 tackles, 10 tfl and 2 int's, 3 Forced fumbles on Def) to go along with almost 2000 yards and 25 tds while leading team to state title had a better season. Keep in mind he did it with only 220 carries.
I actually disagree with state title will bring offers. Offers come off size and speed at camps of kids. This isn't the 80's or 90's anymore. Watty OT Pete Eglits has like 20 D1 offers (Pitt, Mizzu, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Wake Forrest, entire MAC). He is a very good HS player but an even better future bet at 6'7 290.... That's how it works man
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Yes Hartleys offensive line did not have a great year last year. It’s the truth. They couldn’t move the ball against a few teams on their schedule, Ironton, Watterson, and Ursuline. When the running back is bouncing off of tackles in the backfield that’s an assignment issue. Also the limitations of the offensive scheme gives defenses the advantage on predictability. Hartley ran the same offense for 15 years, hell even Watterson shifted to a version of the spread.
It will be interesting to watch this years game. With a change in philosophy I’ll be interested to see what Watterson does to defend it. Should be fun!
It will be interesting to watch this years game. With a change in philosophy I’ll be interested to see what Watterson does to defend it. Should be fun!