D2 State Semi-final: R6 Toledo Central Catholic (13-1) vs R8 Kings Mills Kings (13-1) @ Wapakoneta

Who wins?

  • Toledo Central Catholic by a lot

    Votes: 26 31.0%
  • Toledo Central Catholic by a little

    Votes: 34 40.5%
  • Kings Mills Kings by a little

    Votes: 24 28.6%
  • Kings Mills Kings by a lot

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    84
Building on my post from last night, it looks obvious to me that Kings is severely underrated by the polls, rankings, and anyone assessing them from outside. To begin with, if Winton Woods had beaten Kings in round 3, and made it to the semifinals, I think they would be considered either the favorite, or co-favorite with Hoban to win the tournament. But Kings beat WW, and they’re the consensus fourth best team left?
However, when you consider the two games Kings and WW played, it’s pretty obvious that Kings was the better team outright. Kings controlled the first game, led for almost the entire way, and lost due to two unconventional scores, of the kind that haven’t happened to them against anyone else. It should be noted that Kings was playing without one of their defensive captains that night. Even so, they had plenty of chances to take control of that game, but didn’t play their normal game, and wound up losing by four, with a chance to win it in the last minute. I’m probably wrong here, but I think that the coaching staff was sandbagging, not wanting to show Winton Woods their full hand, knowing it was more important to get past them in the playoffs.
In the playoff game, Kings controlled the game the entire way, and I think should have beaten them by more than a touchdown. Coach Garvin’s gameplan was masterful to put them in a position to win, though, and he had utter trust in his defense to win the game late, and it paid off. A dumb band dad in the bleachers like me can say that he let WW off the hook by not being aggressive offensively in the second half, but bottom line, he knew exactly what he wanted to do, his team executed it, and it was enough to end a 21 game winning streak for the defending state champs. So ask yourself this: if Winton Woods was playing Central, who would be favored? Because I personally think Central would be better off facing Winton Woods than Kings.
So to me, the takeaway is that Kings was a better team this year than WW, who, if they had made it here, would have been the favorite or close to it, and yet Kings is considered the also-ran of the four teams left. I think this makes them extremely dangerous. I already went through how ECC teams that Kings beat handily beat the 2 and 3 seeds in Region 8 handily. I think it’s obvious in retrospect that Kings should have been the 2 seed in the region. So let me ask, if Kings had been seeded 2 instead of 4 in the region, and beaten Winton Woods in the regional finals to get here instead of Anderson in a shootout, would they be considered a 10-17 point underdog in this matchup? I don’t think so.
 

KingKong24

Well-known member
Building on my post from last night, it looks obvious to me that Kings is severely underrated by the polls, rankings, and anyone assessing them from outside. To begin with, if Winton Woods had beaten Kings in round 3, and made it to the semifinals, I think they would be considered either the favorite, or co-favorite with Hoban to win the tournament. But Kings beat WW, and they’re the consensus fourth best team left?
However, when you consider the two games Kings and WW played, it’s pretty obvious that Kings was the better team outright. Kings controlled the first game, led for almost the entire way, and lost due to two unconventional scores, of the kind that haven’t happened to them against anyone else. It should be noted that Kings was playing without one of their defensive captains that night. Even so, they had plenty of chances to take control of that game, but didn’t play their normal game, and wound up losing by four, with a chance to win it in the last minute. I’m probably wrong here, but I think that the coaching staff was sandbagging, not wanting to show Winton Woods their full hand, knowing it was more important to get past them in the playoffs.
In the playoff game, Kings controlled the game the entire way, and I think should have beaten them by more than a touchdown. Coach Garvin’s gameplan was masterful to put them in a position to win, though, and he had utter trust in his defense to win the game late, and it paid off. A dumb band dad in the bleachers like me can say that he let WW off the hook by not being aggressive offensively in the second half, but bottom line, he knew exactly what he wanted to do, his team executed it, and it was enough to end a 21 game winning streak for the defending state champs. So ask yourself this: if Winton Woods was playing Central, who would be favored? Because I personally think Central would be better off facing Winton Woods than Kings.
So to me, the takeaway is that Kings was a better team this year than WW, who, if they had made it here, would have been the favorite or close to it, and yet Kings is considered the also-ran of the four teams left. I think this makes them extremely dangerous. I already went through how ECC teams that Kings beat handily beat the 2 and 3 seeds in Region 8 handily. I think it’s obvious in retrospect that Kings should have been the 2 seed in the region. So let me ask, if Kings had been seeded 2 instead of 4 in the region, and beaten Winton Woods in the regional finals to get here instead of Anderson in a shootout, would they be considered a 10-17 point underdog in this matchup? I don’t think so.
Well with high school and even college football to an extent, it’s all about perception when you get this late in the season. The other 3 remaining teams have all been to the semi’s multiple times and Kings hasn’t. That alone makes them an underdog and I don’t think Coach Garvin would want it any other way.
 
Ok, some rambling notes from a non-football expert, having watched most of what was the only Central game I could find on youtube, against Whitmer…



Their running back (Edmunds? There was no play by play) is definitely unlike anything Kings has seen this year. He seems like a threat to break one every time he touches the ball. He’s got breakaway speed and shiftiness I don’t think Cornist has, and is through the line and into the secondary faster than anyone Kings has faced. Big plays will definitely be a concern. But Kings’ speed on defense is what sets them apart. I think (hope?) that plays that have been touchdowns for him most of the year will be chased down by our db’s, and they’ll make them score in the red zone, which is where Kings thrives. I actually have more faith in Kings’ run defense than their pass defense, but we’ll see.



I didn’t see the quarterback make a lot of plays, but I kind of get Vince Young vibes. (I know he’s a lefty, not sure what that means to the defense.) He seems very confident and comfortable in the pocket, and seems like he could shed defenders and break tackles if necessary. In the passing game, I don’t think he and their receivers look exceptional compared to what Kings has faced. I think the onslaught the Kings defense faced against Anderson will serve as an excellent motivator, and expect them to come out with something to prove.



Central’s obviously huge on the offensive line. I don’t think that’s necessarily going to be a major factor against the Kings defense, which again, is built on speed, but it’s still scary.



As for their defense, I’m not sure what to think. Whitmer struck early and often on the kinds of plays Kings lives on. But they withered by the second quarter, and Central looked dominant the rest of the way. I doubt Kings will be putting up 40 plus, but I don’t think Central will be either.



Central’s return game looks scary. The first touchdown was on a kickoff return. But Kings hasn’t kicked a ball where anyone could return it in weeks now, it seems like a special priority to eliminate non-conventional scores.



Looks like a pretty even matchup to me. If it comes down to game planning, as I think it might, like tiger56dad said earlier, I concur that the Kings coaches have “out game planned” everybody they’ve come up against so far.
 

CCHS93

Well-known member
Some updates from todays Blade article:

Senior quarterback Ty'Waun Clark is 134 of 196 passing for 1,806 yards and 19 touchdowns, and has rushed 118 times for 730 yards and 11 scores.

His classmate, running back Chris Edmonds, has carried 260 times for 1,926 yards and 31 TDS, and his backup, Marquan Braswell has 54 rushes for 508 yards and six scores.

Clark's most frequent targets have been Durye's Hall (36 catches, 594 yards, 7 TD), Javon Murphy (38 catches, 512 yards, 6 TD), and Mekhi Warren (27 catches, 276 yards, 2 TD). He has more recently gone to University of Toledo commit Braden Awls, a full-time safety who has 16 catches for 243 yards and four touchdowns.

Central Catholic’s offense operates behind an offensive line that averages 6-foot-2 and 297 pounds per player.

The Irish defense is led up front by linemen Michael Cannings, Tyler Jackson, Ronald Collins, and DeAndre Ellis. Cody Schuberg and Ramon Foster compose the linebacking corps, and the secondary includes Awls, fellow safeties Braiden Vargas and R.J. Maddox, and cornerbacks Marvon Greenlee and Jayden Barnes.

Senior kicker Brian Bishop, who never played football before this season, is 70 of 73 on extra points, 5-for-6 on field goals, and has sent half (46 of 92) of his kickoffs for touchbacks. Punter Winston Delp is averaging 33 yards a kick.
 
Some updates from todays Blade article:

Senior quarterback Ty'Waun Clark is 134 of 196 passing for 1,806 yards and 19 touchdowns, and has rushed 118 times for 730 yards and 11 scores.

His classmate, running back Chris Edmonds, has carried 260 times for 1,926 yards and 31 TDS, and his backup, Marquan Braswell has 54 rushes for 508 yards and six scores.

Clark's most frequent targets have been Durye's Hall (36 catches, 594 yards, 7 TD), Javon Murphy (38 catches, 512 yards, 6 TD), and Mekhi Warren (27 catches, 276 yards, 2 TD). He has more recently gone to University of Toledo commit Braden Awls, a full-time safety who has 16 catches for 243 yards and four touchdowns.

Central Catholic’s offense operates behind an offensive line that averages 6-foot-2 and 297 pounds per player.

The Irish defense is led up front by linemen Michael Cannings, Tyler Jackson, Ronald Collins, and DeAndre Ellis. Cody Schuberg and Ramon Foster compose the linebacking corps, and the secondary includes Awls, fellow safeties Braiden Vargas and R.J. Maddox, and cornerbacks Marvon Greenlee and Jayden Barnes.

Senior kicker Brian Bishop, who never played football before this season, is 70 of 73 on extra points, 5-for-6 on field goals, and has sent half (46 of 92) of his kickoffs for touchbacks. Punter Winston Delp is averaging 33 yards a kick.
Wow. I guess their running attack is legit… 😵
 
Building on my post from last night, it looks obvious to me that Kings is severely underrated by the polls, rankings, and anyone assessing them from outside. To begin with, if Winton Woods had beaten Kings in round 3, and made it to the semifinals, I think they would be considered either the favorite, or co-favorite with Hoban to win the tournament. But Kings beat WW, and they’re the consensus fourth best team left?
However, when you consider the two games Kings and WW played, it’s pretty obvious that Kings was the better team outright. Kings controlled the first game, led for almost the entire way, and lost due to two unconventional scores, of the kind that haven’t happened to them against anyone else. It should be noted that Kings was playing without one of their defensive captains that night. Even so, they had plenty of chances to take control of that game, but didn’t play their normal game, and wound up losing by four, with a chance to win it in the last minute. I’m probably wrong here, but I think that the coaching staff was sandbagging, not wanting to show Winton Woods their full hand, knowing it was more important to get past them in the playoffs.
In the playoff game, Kings controlled the game the entire way, and I think should have beaten them by more than a touchdown. Coach Garvin’s gameplan was masterful to put them in a position to win, though, and he had utter trust in his defense to win the game late, and it paid off. A dumb band dad in the bleachers like me can say that he let WW off the hook by not being aggressive offensively in the second half, but bottom line, he knew exactly what he wanted to do, his team executed it, and it was enough to end a 21 game winning streak for the defending state champs. So ask yourself this: if Winton Woods was playing Central, who would be favored? Because I personally think Central would be better off facing Winton Woods than Kings.
So to me, the takeaway is that Kings was a better team this year than WW, who, if they had made it here, would have been the favorite or close to it, and yet Kings is considered the also-ran of the four teams left. I think this makes them extremely dangerous. I already went through how ECC teams that Kings beat handily beat the 2 and 3 seeds in Region 8 handily. I think it’s obvious in retrospect that Kings should have been the 2 seed in the region. So let me ask, if Kings had been seeded 2 instead of 4 in the region, and beaten Winton Woods in the regional finals to get here instead of Anderson in a shootout, would they be considered a 10-17 point underdog in this matchup? I don’t think so.
Toledo Central Catholic was beating the best or second best team in the state in St. Eds. WW oline/dline does not compare to St. Eds whom TCC did fine against. No matter what level of ball it, athletes can keep you in games but it always comes down to the trenches. Kings had better line play and thats why they beat WW. TCC have the athletes to hang with anyone in the country and the lineman also. For the sake of Cincinnati pride, I hope Kings makes it a good game. It would not shock me if it was 35-7 and it would not shock me if it was 36-35. Just a complete toss up of a game. Go Knights
 
Ok, some rambling notes from a non-football expert, having watched most of what was the only Central game I could find on youtube, against Whitmer…



Their running back (Edmunds? There was no play by play) is definitely unlike anything Kings has seen this year. He seems like a threat to break one every time he touches the ball. He’s got breakaway speed and shiftiness I don’t think Cornist has, and is through the line and into the secondary faster than anyone Kings has faced. Big plays will definitely be a concern. But Kings’ speed on defense is what sets them apart. I think (hope?) that plays that have been touchdowns for him most of the year will be chased down by our db’s, and they’ll make them score in the red zone, which is where Kings thrives. I actually have more faith in Kings’ run defense than their pass defense, but we’ll see.



I didn’t see the quarterback make a lot of plays, but I kind of get Vince Young vibes. (I know he’s a lefty, not sure what that means to the defense.) He seems very confident and comfortable in the pocket, and seems like he could shed defenders and break tackles if necessary. In the passing game, I don’t think he and their receivers look exceptional compared to what Kings has faced. I think the onslaught the Kings defense faced against Anderson will serve as an excellent motivator, and expect them to come out with something to prove.



Central’s obviously huge on the offensive line. I don’t think that’s necessarily going to be a major factor against the Kings defense, which again, is built on speed, but it’s still scary.



As for their defense, I’m not sure what to think. Whitmer struck early and often on the kinds of plays Kings lives on. But they withered by the second quarter, and Central looked dominant the rest of the way. I doubt Kings will be putting up 40 plus, but I don’t think Central will be either.



Central’s return game looks scary. The first touchdown was on a kickoff return. But Kings hasn’t kicked a ball where anyone could return it in weeks now, it seems like a special priority to eliminate non-conventional scores.



Looks like a pretty even matchup to me. If it comes down to game planning, as I think it might, like tiger56dad said earlier, I concur that the Kings coaches have “out game planned” everybody they’ve come up against so far.
Just wait till the 4th quarter and TCC needs 4 yards to ice the game. It'll matter then.
 

Over The Hills

Well-known member
Both teams are legit.
Best of luck to Kings who finally won region 8.
Most people are not familiar with Kings but they are an excellent program and finally punched though to the state semis.
Very well coached and disciplined team.
This is not a one hit wonder team but rather a solid program.
Wont get to watch but will look forward to how it goes and the usual Yappi expert analysis.
 

cincifbfan

Well-known member
Both teams are legit.
Best of luck to Kings who finally won region 8.
Most people are not familiar with Kings but they are an excellent program and finally punched though to the state semis.
Very well coached and disciplined team.
This is not a one hit wonder team but rather a solid program.
Wont get to watch but will look forward to how it goes and the usual Yappi expert analysis.
Well said. I was always surprised that Coach Olds never got this far, he was a phenomenal coach and set the program up very well for the future. Glad to see Kings taking the next step as a program. Definitely one of the best coached and classiest programs in the Cincy area. Good luck to Kings tonight. This won't be their last time in this position.
 

CCHS93

Well-known member
Both teams are legit.
Best of luck to Kings who finally won region 8.
Most people are not familiar with Kings but they are an excellent program and finally punched though to the state semis.
Very well coached and disciplined team.
This is not a one hit wonder team but rather a solid program.
Wont get to watch but will look forward to how it goes and the usual Yappi expert analysis.
you can listen on iheart radio 100.7 the ticket. its the central broadcast but you will be able to get it live at least
 
The Kings defense got that four yard stop against WW in the first game to get the ball back and give the offense a chance to win. They did the same thing the last two weeks to get the ball back to kneel out the clock. They got an interception on the last play to preserve the win against Lebanon. If it comes down to the Kings defense needing to get a stop to put away the game, I think that’s a best case scenario.

If it’s all just physical, and they’re just overmatched and can’t stay in the game with Central, that’s one thing. Maybe they will happen. But if it’s close, I think this defense has a mental edge because they’ve found a way to get their team over the finish line repeatedly.
 

CCHS93

Well-known member
I do wish the Toledo area represented better on this site. We dont need to be Massillon or anything with an army of posters, but Toledo, as a whole, only has maybe a dozen or two posters who are regular. Kinda frustrating.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
I do wish the Toledo area represented better on this site. We dont need to be Massillon or anything with an army of posters, but Toledo, as a whole, only has maybe a dozen or two posters who are regular. Kinda frustrating.

The posters are here. The johnnies only post if the johnnies are winning. SFS has never had more than onesy-twosy. There was a time, a deep Central run would get alot of support on the board across the spectrum from the rest. There's other issues these days,. They are legit. Hashing them out here and now would be raining on someone else's parade. THAT would be a Massillon thread.

That would be my take on the situation.
 
I do wish the Toledo area represented better on this site. We dont need to be Massillon or anything with an army of posters, but Toledo, as a whole, only has maybe a dozen or two posters who are regular. Kinda frustrating.
Yeah, I kind of wish there was more conversation on this thread, but then I look at the Moeller/Springfield thread and don’t want any part of what that’s become…

In other news, my daughter woke up with a 102.8 degree fever, so she won’t be marching, which means I’ll be watching via live feed… 😭 To those who are going, cheer them on for me! GO KINIGHTS!!!
 

CCHS93

Well-known member
The posters are here. The johnnies only post if the johnnies are winning. SFS has never had more than onesy-twosy. There was a time, a deep Central run would get alot of support on the board across the spectrum from the rest. There's other issues these days,. They are legit. Hashing them out here and now would be raining on someone else's parade. THAT would be a Massillon thread.

That would be my take on the situation.
Good points. In general though there are a few Central posters and then a sprinkle of AW,.PBurg, Fremonts. Id like to see more Whitmers and other Toledo big schools. In the other sports, like girls soccer (which I follow), its mainly a Cinci dominated thread. Our whole region needs to represent better in all sports.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
monty python i fart in your general direction GIF
Luck Of The Irish GIF
 

KingKong24

Well-known member
Yeah, I kind of wish there was more conversation on this thread, but then I look at the Moeller/Springfield thread and don’t want any part of what that’s become…

In other news, my daughter woke up with a 102.8 degree fever, so she won’t be marching, which means I’ll be watching via live feed… 😭 To those who are going, cheer them on for me! GO KINIGHTS!!!
Buffalo Wings and Rings on Kings Island Drive is showing the feed.
 
My buddy and I were looking for a place to get a beer after the Winton Woods game and ended up there. It was filled with exuberant high school kids in bright red. We sat at the bar and after a while I heard a voice I recognized from those post-game interviews on 1530. I turned around and the whole Kings coaching staff was behind me, celebrating in high spirits.

It would be a fun place to watch it, but the wife is just as invested in this game as me. I think the whole fam is going to watch it on the couch.
 
Just in looking at the stats between the two teams TCC looks to have the edge in this game. TCC has only allowed an avg. of 8 points per game including the playoffs. Kings gives up an average of 15 points per game & is allowing an avg. of 25 points per game in the playoffs. Given that TCC has also played a little tougher schedule, its not surprising Fantastic 50 & CalPreps are favoring TCC by a high % of probability. Being a Findlay fan I have seen TCC many times, including this year. Findlay had some success in the first half against TCC, leading at the end of the first quarter & only down 9 at half. But TCC can just pour on the points very fast & real quick you're in a deep hole. I have not seen Kings play this year but at this stage of the season everyone is capable of beating everyone & like some other posters have stated it wouldn't be surprising to see Kings in a tight one or on the other hand blown out by TCC. That is no disrespect to Kings at all, it's just coming from witnessing TCC so much & knowing what they can do.
 
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Ok, some rambling notes from a non-football expert, having watched most of what was the only Central game I could find on youtube, against Whitmer…



Their running back (Edmunds? There was no play by play) is definitely unlike anything Kings has seen this year. He seems like a threat to break one every time he touches the ball. He’s got breakaway speed and shiftiness I don’t think Cornist has, and is through the line and into the secondary faster than anyone Kings has faced. Big plays will definitely be a concern. But Kings’ speed on defense is what sets them apart. I think (hope?) that plays that have been touchdowns for him most of the year will be chased down by our db’s, and they’ll make them score in the red zone, which is where Kings thrives. I actually have more faith in Kings’ run defense than their pass defense, but we’ll see.



I didn’t see the quarterback make a lot of plays, but I kind of get Vince Young vibes. (I know he’s a lefty, not sure what that means to the defense.) He seems very confident and comfortable in the pocket, and seems like he could shed defenders and break tackles if necessary. In the passing game, I don’t think he and their receivers look exceptional compared to what Kings has faced. I think the onslaught the Kings defense faced against Anderson will serve as an excellent motivator, and expect them to come out with something to prove.



Central’s obviously huge on the offensive line. I don’t think that’s necessarily going to be a major factor against the Kings defense, which again, is built on speed, but it’s still scary.



As for their defense, I’m not sure what to think. Whitmer struck early and often on the kinds of plays Kings lives on. But they withered by the second quarter, and Central looked dominant the rest of the way. I doubt Kings will be putting up 40 plus, but I don’t think Central will be either.



Central’s return game looks scary. The first touchdown was on a kickoff return. But Kings hasn’t kicked a ball where anyone could return it in weeks now, it seems like a special priority to eliminate non-conventional scores.



Looks like a pretty even matchup to me. If it comes down to game planning, as I think it might, like tiger56dad said earlier, I concur that the Kings coaches have “out game planned” everybody they’ve come up against so far.
IMO Jermaine Mathews was the most dangerous kick returner Kings faced all year. They adopted a good strategy early on, don’t kick it anywhere near him. I expect much of the same tonight. Nice write up Timelineman.
 
Just in looking at the stats between the two teams TCC looks to have the edge in this game. TCC has only allowed 8 points per game including the playoffs. Kings gives up an average of 15 points per game & is allowing 25 points per game in the playoffs. Given that TCC has also played a little tougher schedule, its not surprising Fantastic 50 & CalPreps are favoring TCC by a high % of probability. Being a Findlay fan I have seen TCC many times, including this year. Findlay had some success in the first half against TCC, leading at the end of the first quarter & only down 9 at half. But TCC can just pour on the points very fast & real quick you're in a deep hole. I have not seen Kings play this year but at this stage of the season everyone is capable of beating everyone & like some other posters have stated it wouldn't be surprising to see Kings in a tight one or on the other hand blown out by TCC. That is no disrespect to Kings at all, it's just coming from witnessing TCC so much & knowing what they can do.
Kings is built around Will Kocher this year, it begins and ends with him. He will have to play the game of his career for Kings to win. But if he does play the game of his career, Kings will win.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Kings is built around Will Kocher this year, it begins and ends with him. He will have to play the game of his career for Kings to win. But if he does play the game of his career, Kings will win.

You're QB and WRs just need to do what they do from videos I've been able to watch. My guess is that your OL might need to play the game of the year, holding up 4Q. Your coach will have to call the plays the relieve the line.

Habits being habits, most people are going to be watching the ball. I normally like to watch the line maybe 1/3 of the time. This game, I think watching the wrs and defenders will be worth the time no matter who has the ball or what plays are run.
 
Your OL needs to play the game of the year, hold up 4Q. Your coach will have to call the plays the relieve the line. You're QB and WRs just need to do what they do from videos I've been able to watch.

Habits being habits, most people are going to be watching the ball. I normally like to watch the line maybe 1/3 of the time. This game, I think watching the wrs and defenders will be worth the time no matter who has the ball or what plays are run.
Every year Kings has the smaller line. At some point they just expect it. The fitness program they run is mean and lean.
 
You're QB and WRs just need to do what they do from videos I've been able to watch. My guess is that your OL might need to play the game of the year, holding up 4Q. Your coach will have to call the plays the relieve the line.

Habits being habits, most people are going to be watching the ball. I normally like to watch the line maybe 1/3 of the time. This game, I think watching the wrs and defenders will be worth the time no matter who has the ball or what plays are run.
The line play will be the critical piece. Every talented team has athletes everywhere that can make plays but TCC's line is what wears teams out & just opens everything up.
 
The line play will be the critical piece. Every talented team has athletes everywhere that can make plays but TCC's line is what wears teams out & just opens everything up.
As someone new to this, would you say the big bruising lines are what generally wins this tournament? Is that why Edwards, Moeller, Hoban, LaSalle have been the dominant forces over the last ten years, because they have had the dominant lines?
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
As someone new to this, would you say the big bruising lines are what generally wins this tournament? Is that why Edwards, Moeller, Hoban, LaSalle have been the dominant forces over the last ten years, because they have had the dominant lines?
Less platooning, high talent average (few weak spots to exploit). Coaches aren't slouches either. I think the "weakest" players on TCC's team have solid fundamentals this year and that's what is making them different.
 

ayCC!

Well-known member
Less platooning, high talent average (few weak spots to exploit). Coaches aren't slouches either. I think the "weakest" players on TCC's team have solid fundamentals this year and that's what is making them different.
I agree. They have played very well as one group both physically and mentally and it’s definitely showed.
 
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