Cross County Conference 2020 Season

D4fan

Well-known member
Anybody can lift 220 lbs. as a 16 to 18 year old if they put in the work ( hell as old as I am I could lift 220 if I worked at it ). Last week Marion Local played 3 soph. at linebacker 2 of them were listed at a 170 lbs. each. It is all about culture, and coaches making sure the players put in the work.
Never could do it at 16-18, got close at 30. On the down hill slope now.
 

BlessEmAll

Moderator
Most of the kids up there are hunting, riding bikes, 4-wheelers, some are growing up on farms, but the genetics and family unit do make a difference. My wife's family is from Coldwater and Ft. Recovery and those kids are always playing outside. They are rarely sitting inside playing a video game or laying around. I have a nephew that is 8 years old that couldn't tell you the names of shows and doesn't have any interest in TV. He's a Coldwater kid and he's pure muscle at 8. Culture and genetics have everything to do with their success. It's actually a great thing to watch. I realize there are kids in the CCC that live the same way but it's the family expectation put on everything they do that's the difference. Just my observations.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Isn't it typically proportional? I know bench may not be the best standard but 200 lbs was always a nice round number we were all chasing but few got there.

I am going to send you a PM concerning a kid I worked with who you may be very familiar with.
Personally IMO weightlifting is over rated. I don't watch too many CCC games but in the play offs I watch teams that are bigger than Marion Local but the difference is over all team speed. Flyers on defense will sacrifice size for speed ( you won't see any fat players start for ML ). This genetic thing is crazy, anyone unless they have some type of defect can have success at the H.S. level if they push themselves hard enough. I never hear Otten are Goodwin talk genetics except for a few individual players, what they continually say when asked about their team success is culture and hard work. If the MAC had all these superior individual athletes why don't they dominate in boys track ? I don't believe any MAC school has ever won a boys state track championship.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Never could do it at 16-18, got close at 30. On the down hill slope now.
Here is a chart on bench pressing : https://www.healthline.com/health/exercise-fitness/average-bench-press
Any healthy individual should be able to lift 220 if they work at it constantly. Success comes down to hard work, I can guarantee you a Marion Local practice or Minster practice in August under Stokes or Goodwin is lot harder than most other similar schools in the rest of state of Ohio.
 
When I worked at Dixie we used 1000lbs with bench, squat, and deadlift as a measurement. That was for any kid that came in the weightroom, not just football. It really depends on the sport in which you play and the strength program that you do. Football should be focused on quick twitch muscle movement and strength with some sort of speed training as well. Wrestling we focused on strength then got our conditioning in during practice, which made for some pretty hard practices.
 
TCN 19

Bethel 13

score really doesn’t represent the game. TCN has two fumbles that resulted in touchdowns When recovered. Other than that bethel couldn’t move the ball offensively and couldn’t stop TCN driving.
 

tvsfan

Member
Good games last night, several close ones. Feel sorry for Bradford - how long as it been since they got a win? But congrats to Mississinnawa Valley for getting the overtime victory. Watched the TV vs NT game online, as goes Sarver, so goes Tri-Village - he is a lot of their offense and defense. Hard to believe that he is just a junior. I looked at the schedule, the Patriots have MV and Bradford next before the championship, so it should be them against Fort Loramie for the championship. Trail has a tough road on their way up the ladder - they play Arcanum and Ansonia. North had to come from behind for their win - were they overconfident after their win over South? Ansonia eeks out a 1 point win over Arcanum. It looks to be up to Ansonia and Trail to fight it out for 2nd place in their ladder. Covington and Fort Loramie had easy wins this week, it won't be easy next week as these two teams go head to head for 1st place on this conference ladder.
 

Jimurphey1

Member
Final scores from last night...

Covington 40
TVS 7

TCN 19
Bethel 13

MV 12
Bradford 6

Tri Village 28
National Trail 19

Fort Loramie 47
Miami East 0

Ansonia 28
Arcanum 7
The Ansonia Arcanum game was 28-27 Arcanum got a touchdown with less than a minute in the game and Ansonia blocked the extra point and Tri-Village beat National Trail 34-19 Tri-Village had a pick 6 to end the game and Covington TVS game was 40-0
 
Last edited:

Jimurphey1

Member
I had a typo on the Arcanum/Ansonia game. I was trying to find the scores on Twitter/Facebook. The Covington - TVS game was not 40-0 though. I was at that game and we did score a TD late in the 4th quarter. It was actually 33-0 at halftime, and the game ended 40-7. Teams played to an even 7-7 in the 2nd half, but I do believe Covington had called off the dogs off for the most part in the 2nd half.
Oh sorry about that thats just what I saw sorry I wasn't trying to prove you wrong if you thought I was
 

Jimurphey1

Member
I just read on Buccsfootball.com, they stated that we had -23 yards rushing prior to that last run.
Wow! Was Covington D-line that good if that's the case they can have a good shot against Fort Loramie next week but also twin valley south is nothing compared to Fort Loramie though
 

D4fan

Well-known member
One of the league's winless teams will get a win this week. One of the undefeated teams will get a loss.

The game of most intrigue to me is Bethel vs TVS . Home field advantage puts Bethel in the win column. (20-6)
 

bigkat

Well-known member
Here is a chart on bench pressing : https://www.healthline.com/health/exercise-fitness/average-bench-press
Any healthy individual should be able to lift 220 if they work at it constantly. Success comes down to hard work, I can guarantee you a Marion Local practice or Minster practice in August under Stokes or Goodwin is lot harder than most other similar schools in the rest of state of Ohio.
While i have never seen a Goodwin practice, i have talked to former players and he runs a pretty tough practice, as for Stokes, there is no doubt that he runs a tough conditioning session and a practice, that there is NO wasted time, the boys are constantly moving. I've seen coaches from various schools across Ohio show up and grade his practices..... and he definitly works on the MENTAL toughness of the kids during those sessions too...
 

ex_dc_atc

Well-known member
My predictions for Week 4:

Bethel 19 TVS 7
Fort Loramie 42 Covington 21
TCN 28 Miami East 7
Tri Village 63 Bradford 0
Ansonia 21 Mississinawa Valley 0
National Trail 21 Arcanum 13
 

Jimurphey1

Member
My predictions for Week 4:

Bethel 19 TVS 7
Fort Loramie 42 Covington 21
TCN 28 Miami East 7
Tri Village 63 Bradford 0
Ansonia 21 Mississinawa Valley 0
National Trail 21 Arcanum 13
Like your predictions but I think Ansonia blows out MV even though its a rivalry and Miami East vs TCN game I think will be closer
 

BlessEmAll

Moderator
Bethel 8 TVS 7
Fort Loramie 42 Covington 14
TCN 28 Miami East 7
Tri Village 47 Bradford 0
Ansonia 28 Mississinawa Valley 6
National Trail 18 Arcanum 13
 

Wrecktangle

New member
Most of the kids up there are hunting, riding bikes, 4-wheelers, some are growing up on farms, but the genetics and family unit do make a difference. My wife's family is from Coldwater and Ft. Recovery and those kids are always playing outside. They are rarely sitting inside playing a video game or laying around. I have a nephew that is 8 years old that couldn't tell you the names of shows and doesn't have any interest in TV. He's a Coldwater kid and he's pure muscle at 8. Culture and genetics have everything to do with their success. It's actually a great thing to watch. I realize there are kids in the CCC that live the same way but it's the family expectation put on everything they do that's the difference. Just my observations.

Bless,

While I agree with you on the culture. I am going to have to throw the genetics thing out the window.

The biggest problem with the CCC in its current state and it being one of the weakest conferences in Ohio is a culture and coaching issue. Not genetics.

For the sake of this argument I am going to remove Fort Loramie from the discussion due to the fact they havent been in the CCC that long and wont be in the new WOAC. Also Fort Loramie is going to be the exception to what I am going to say here.

Some of the comments I have read in this forum recently are almost on the level of insane to me. For example "weight lifting is overrated." Uhhhh What? lol In any level of football, being in shape, stronger and faster then the guy ahead of you. Weight lifting doesn't just do this for your team though it builds teamwork and a culture around your program. A few years ago I saw a youtube video where Covington kids were going into the weight room at 5:30 AM. My old high school in Washington had the same thing, we called it "Zero Hour". I formed bonds with my fellow players and it created a culture because the players knew if they weren't there, they weren't playing. We worked for every yard in every game and went to two state championships.

The MAC relying on speed? Well sure they do. They also have a huge amount of success because a lot of the schools up there do not offer soccer. Its football or nothing. I know coaches in the CCC that would KILL to have some of those soccer players. I just looked up both Coldwater and Fort Recovery that you mentioned, neither one offer soccer. Also if we look at John DIrksen for example. He was a 295 pound lineman that got recruited by Notre Dame. but he was a mean lean 295 pounds. So in some respects some of the comments in this forum are correct, Marion Local doesn't have out of shape kids starting but they aren't these small athletic kids either.


I suggest giving that article a read that came out in 2016 if you haven't seen it.

Now to the main part, if you look at each school in the CCC currently and what each school tries to do offensively and defensively and take a step back and actually look at each program its pretty obvious what its biggest issues are and what they aren't:

Covington: This is a top tier school and its a shame that the WOAC is losing them. Ty Cates took an already successful program and has kept it there. Which is no small feat. He maintained and even improved up its culture. Now before TY everyone knew what Covington was doing. The Triple Option. One of the best defenses against this is the 5-4 Oklahoma. Never saw a team run it, nor did I see very many teams really stop it. We can see that in the records and scores year in and year out. Also in 2015 when Ty Cates took over with the boys having to learn a whole new offense and defense, 8-3 season. More on Ty later. Once again it is a coaching issue. Most coaches in this area are simply not that experienced and if they are they have been around too long and dont know how to coach there kids to stop it.

Miami East: This school is probably the biggest example because of how long they were in the conference and not having changed coaches. I played against this team when I was at Greenon when both were in the CBC in 2004. Max Current is still the head coach there and everyone knows what this guy loves to do. Dive, Dive, Dive, and the Dive some more. Its his bread and butter. yet in the CBC where schools are not that much bigger than the CCC he didn't do well. 04 season: 2-8 05 Season - 0-10 06 Season: 3-7 First year in the CCC didnt do well but to be expected becasue of no experience against these coaches/teams but still an improvement. 07 Season: 8-3. Now think about that for a second. Really think. 2nd year in a conference and he went 8-3. And judging by the scores im looking at here. Most of them were complete routes. And Miami East has continued to be one of the most dominant teams in the CCC by far year in and year out. Max has a culture and maintains a discipline up there in Casstown. He also has one of the best offensive lines day in and day out every year. Also all the way up to this year the worst season he has had is a 6-4. The rest from 2007 to now have either been 7-3, 8-2 etc etc.

Tri Village: This school obviously not everyone knows a lot about football wise and I certainly don't, however just looking at it online seeing some youtube videos you can see that this coach does in fact knows what he is doing. WIth this school already having created a culture and exceling in other sports it is no surprise to see that this school is already with just a few short years of having football is already exceling. This simply comes down to culture, excitement around a new sport, and having found the right coach for the job. The kids there came off a couple 3-7 seasons to turn around now having experience in the game and are KILLING other teams in the sport. Off to an awesome 3-0 start it will be exciting to see how these guys turn out in the years to come.

Twin Valley South: In my time here in Preble County, I can only remember one season where they did well. and as is those years in small schools where you have the athletes that you can truly run whatever you want and be successful. I was at the game and I think everyone between Lewisburg and West Alex was when they two undefeated teams in the CCC TCN and TVS came together. It was a packed house. With Bill at the helm still though the outcome was predetermined. Bill Derringer was one of the best coaches TCN has ever had and after TVS doing exceptionally well throughout the conference the game ended with a 42-15 score in favor of TCN. but also if you look at who was coaching them in the 2014 season, Well look no further than Covingtons Ty Cates. 2014 Southwest District Division 6 coach of the year. Bill knew what he needed to do to shut them down and he did it. Since then and even in that game and I have watched most of them every year. I still have yet to determine what their offensive and defensive philosophy is. This year when watching them they were running this weird spread/ace package where either the playbook or play calling didnt flow well. Timing was also way off. And this is how I have seen most of South's teams. TCN has had some of the worst coaches I have ever seen in the last 3 years, running a 3-5 defense has your base in a run focused conference yet South still hasnt been able to pull out a win against TCN. It would be awesome to see West Alex show the same support for every team like they did in 2014.

Tri County North: This school is probably the biggest evidence I can have about culture and coaching. This school went from one of the most dominant in the conference every year with Bill Derringer to one of the bottom with the last two coaches having last 2 years and 1 year. The discipline and culture with the kids at the school the last 3 years has been atrocious. TCN had one of the best defensive lines in the league 3 years ago and the sheer lack of discipline lost them games. (Even one player got ejected against Bradford because he wouldn't shut his mouth. 13 player squad at Bradford had more discipline and class. Come on now.) There record in 2018 was 6-4. That doesn't look bad from the outside but in all reality they should have won the conference except for sheer lack of discpline, fitness, and coaching gameplan every game was just bad. They had all the talent in the world. Brookville that season, 22-0 in the half, Brookville came out in the 2nd half and won 26-22. Insane. Ansonia that year got utterly screwed by the refs on HORRIBLE Calls. Most of Arcanums starters were hurt by the time North played them. They barely got by NT when it should have been a shutout. The three teams with good coaches came in and completely shut them out. North with one of the best D-lines if not the best lost to the Dive focused ME 42-0. HOW, well by running a base 3-5 and not switching till it was too late.

Ansonia, Arcanum, Bethel: These three teams I am going to talk about all in the same way because 1. I dont know a lot about them but two from what I could see year to year they all have one thing in common. They have all been 1 trick ponies. Ansonia the last several years had a good reciever and a good QB. That was there default setting. They would send the reciever on one of three patterns. a Post, Corner, or Fly route and score. Thats what they had. Arcanum usually tried to ground and pound with no real aerial attack at all, and Bethel has relied on spread with the speed backs they have had the last couple years. That sums them up. I feel has though they have been building and building but really just havent been able to breach a ceiling.

National Trail: These guys have been somewhat interesting in recent years due to the head coach coming and going. Whenever he is there they do reasonably well and compete when he isn't they fall apart. I don't even remember the guys name currently for some reason its slipping. But once again it shows the example of Coaching being key. he plays to there strengths. He isnt stubborn and knows what he needs to do with his players. Trail in recent years has had an excellent passing attack because he knows what they are working with. Last season for example they competed in every game except for Covington. It was 1-2 touchdown games. What those scores tell me is certain penalties or kids not executing is all it came down too.


Overall My point of making this post is because I feel like some of these discussions turn into a muddied mess of trying to explain why the CCC teams have done poorly either in conference our post season for a very long time. In all reality is that its the coaching and the kind of football that is played in the CCC. Every game it is even questionable whether teams have coached special teams. I was absolutely shocked about how piss poor special teams are in this conference. I have never seen so many missed field goals in my life.

This post is not to put anyone down, but more of a reality check on what this conference is and what it isnt. The MAC which everyone here loves commenting about isnt good because any other reason other than the culture and the coaches they have hired. You don't win every year without those two things. WIth the revolving door of coaches and the quality the CCC has hired I dont see that changing anytime soon.
 

LetsGoBig

Active member
I agree with wrecktangle on his points from above...the coaching in this league is miserable. The CCC is bad now, and they are losing the crown jewel in FL and the other two teams are going to a new conference....

The new CCC will contend with the NWCC as the worst football conference in the state of ohio. The NWCC will be a step ahead because they have Lima Perry which is three touchdowns better than anyone the new CCC will have.
 
.
Top