Could this season lead to a change in the way the OHSAA does playoffs?

It's been interesting to see some of the teams in the Mahoning valley use these last 3 games as a chance to play some more equal opponents. Teams like Waterloo, Sebring, and East Palestine are playing close games against competition more in line with their current talent level. It has to spark some enthusiasm among the players and fans of those teams who usually go into games completely outmatched. Do you think in the future we might see the regular season shortened to 8 or 9 games which would allow for teams who did not make the playoffs to play each other during weeks 9, 10, maybe even 11? I know Western PA has a version of this already.
 

Bigfe

Member
It would be perfect, but I say everybody gets a week 11 game for this. Schedule the extra game during the first week of the playoffs. I more week of football.
 

Sykotyk

Well-known member
It's been interesting to see some of the teams in the Mahoning valley use these last 3 games as a chance to play some more equal opponents. Teams like Waterloo, Sebring, and East Palestine are playing close games against competition more in line with their current talent level. It has to spark some enthusiasm among the players and fans of those teams who usually go into games completely outmatched. Do you think in the future we might see the regular season shortened to 8 or 9 games which would allow for teams who did not make the playoffs to play each other during weeks 9, 10, maybe even 11? I know Western PA has a version of this already.
Was at the Waterloo-Windham game. No doubt about it. That game mattered to the kids on both sides. And that win meant a lot for them.

To give an example of another state:

In New York, the state has a ten game season. The state playoffs are three weeks. Only teams that qualify for the state playoffs can play more than ten games. However, the state is split into 11 Sections, and to determine which team wins their section, they started sectional playoffs. However, the state won't let them play any more games. So the sections carved their games out of the 10 game season.

in Section 6, which is the Buffalo area (far west NY), the section plays a 7 game season and three rounds of playoffs. If you don't make the playoffs or lose, you can play up to three more games during the ten game season schedule. Many schools will play at least one additional game. Sometimes a rivalry matchup that didn't get played. Sometimes just winless teams wanting to extend things. Due to official availability, a lot of NY consolation games get played on Wednesday or Thursday night. Or Saturday for stadiums without lights.

A few years ago, Springville Griffith was 0-7, and scheduled three games. The first was at Tonawanda. I was at that game. They lost in the rain, 14-7. But were competitive. The next week, they played at East Aurora/Holland. They were competitive, but was 14-7. At least better than the regular season matchups. Unfortunately, their third consolation game didn't go as well as the first two. They played at Alden, who were also 0-9. They had lost 9-6 and 51-34 in other consolation games. The final game of the season was on a Tuesday in Alden, and Alden won their first game of the season on their last try: 50-22.

It might not be much. But two 0-9 teams playing on a Tuesday still meant someone would win. And they did. And it made their season at least a little bit better.
 

yakyak

Well-known member
Drop the out of conference games if needed to get everyone in the playoffs. 8 game regular season and playoffs for all start week 9? I dont think teams need two scrimmages either. One scrimmage week to help with schedules.
 

Sykotyk

Well-known member
Drop the out of conference games if needed to get everyone in the playoffs. 8 game regular season and playoffs for all start week 9? I dont think teams need two scrimmages either. One scrimmage week to help with schedules.
The OHSAA already added a week to the playoffs. Just go from 10 to 9, and that's another week for the playoffs. Every team can get in but opt out if they want. Let teams play between 1 or 2 additional games if they opt out (or lose in the first round have one final game).

It may have taken a weird occurence, but I think Ohio is seeing the benefit of how 'everyone in' and 'consolation games' can bring teams. Easier scheduling tough games when everyone gets in. And a benefit to the lesser teams to get a game late in the season that might be winnable.
 
But they could play these games out of conference already.
I did think about that and you are right. Sometimes though you schedule OOC games and think they will be competitive and they are not. Other times you can't get other teams to play because they are trying to schedule up or schedule a team that will give them a good gate etc. I admit that this might not be practical but I think for many student athletes this would add some fun to seasons that really are a struggle.
 
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thavoice

Well-known member
It's been interesting to see some of the teams in the Mahoning valley use these last 3 games as a chance to play some more equal opponents. Teams like Waterloo, Sebring, and East Palestine are playing close games against competition more in line with their current talent level. It has to spark some enthusiasm among the players and fans of those teams who usually go into games completely outmatched. Do you think in the future we might see the regular season shortened to 8 or 9 games which would allow for teams who did not make the playoffs to play each other during weeks 9, 10, maybe even 11? I know Western PA has a version of this already.
I like the idea.

I would base it on when basketball is allowed to start, and end it a week prior to when hoop is allowed to start so if that means the non playoff teams can play 11, 12 games...so be it.

I imagine many would just pack it in, maybe play one more game but the weather starts to get raw and aint nobody wanting to sit through a scrimmage in some of that weather....
 

bkmk1

Well-known member
If they do decide to go the everyone makes it they should still use the Harbarin system. Some of the coaches voting was ridiculous
Honestly, I actually hope they eliminate Harbins if everyone gets in. First off, it could and should get coaches and AD's thinking about scheduling better competition versus trying to get cupcakes and go 10-0 or 9-1. The better teams you play, the more prepared you will be come playoff time. That is a fact. (minus injuries of course). Losing to good teams exposes your weakness' and allows you as a coaching staff to work on things you may not have worked on if you just roll everyone you play. Going 6-4 and being battled tested pays off in the end. Plus maybe, just maybe, the "teams that no one wants to play" so they have to go out of state problem could go away if teams step up and challenge themselves. It's like 9 or 10 game like scrimmages getting you ready for the playoffs. And we all know that when the kids step on the field, they are playing to win games whether they are guaranteed playoffs or not. That is just 1 mans opinion.
 

StateChampion2012

Well-known member
I don't think think I will see a day where everyone will make the playoffs becomes a yearly thing. But then again, I didn't think we'd see an expansion from 8 to 12.
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
9 week season. Same as this year, once eliminated you can schedule to 10, so like in the case of non conference rivalries like Defiance-Napoleon, New Philadelphia-Dover, Sandusky-Fremont, etc. there's a way to guarantee they get played. Titke teams play 16, everyone else is guaranteed the opportunity for 10 (opt outs) or 11 (first round losses).
 

chito

Active member
9 week season. Same as this year, once eliminated you can schedule to 10, so like in the case of non conference rivalries like Defiance-Napoleon, New Philadelphia-Dover, Sandusky-Fremont, etc. there's a way to guarantee they get played.
Your"guarantee" assumes that teams like Dover and New Philly lose in the first round which is not likely.Traditional rivals would have to be scheduled in the regular season in order to guarantee that they get played.
 
Just a clarification on my original post. I don't necessarily think everyone has to make the playoffs to make this work. You can still have Harbin points and keep it at its current level.

I do think everyone making the playoff does have some positive effects. Teams who go 9-1 and don't make the playoffs (which happens every year) would be in. The old argument about playing better competition just isn't valid sometimes. If your league is weak in a given year and your OOC opponents have bad years you can lose out through no fault of your own.

In the current Harbin system some teams shy away from playing teams they can't beat for sure. They also stay away from playing teams that are not very good because they want second level points. Teams would be less picky about who they play. It would also eliminate playing teams from Canada, PA, and WV that are bad teams but equate to big Harbin points in Ohio.
 

dhsdog06

Well-known member
Your"guarantee" assumes that teams like Dover and New Philly lose in the first round which is not likely.Traditional rivals would have to be scheduled in the regular season in order to guarantee that they get played.
That's kinda what I'm thinking. 10 teams league go 8 game schedule. 8 team leagues don't have an issue as they have 2 non league games anyway.

I'm saying I'm for it. Just what I think could work.

Also, no, they wouldn't have to lose first round. I'd do like baseball, play ANY week up to the state title once eliminated. The odds of either of them winning state are low too.
 

doubtme

Active member
terrible idea. I don't even think every team should get in the post season in sports like basketball. I mean you go 2-20 you don't need to be in the tourney I am sorry.

Anyway, every team in is yet another move at lowering the bar. I can't see rewarding teams in a regular year that are 1-9 or 2-8 a chance at a playoff game to most likely be a punching bag for someone whether in round 1 or 2. We had 71-0 games in the first round, we rarely see that in a regular playoff year.

Expansion to 12 is probably the furtherest it needs to go.
 

Quasimodo

New member
In division 7 regiion 25, 0 and 6 Greenwhich South Central hammered 4 and 2 Fairport Harding 41 to 7 for what it is worth. They play 6 and 0 Malvern this week, and don't be surprised if it is a game.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
If the OHSAA can see a way where they make more money with the all-inclusive football playoff model, it may very well happen. Scaling back to a nine game regular season would be the first step and possibly allowing the first round game revenue to go solely to the schools. Rivalry games can be adjusted to Week 9, or moved to an earlier week if they are OOC. I probably wouldn't do it, but since they went to 12 and opened the door to first round byes, they might as well go all the way with it.
 

doubtme

Active member
In division 7 regiion 25, 0 and 6 Greenwhich South Central hammered 4 and 2 Fairport Harding 41 to 7 for what it is worth. They play 6 and 0 Malvern this week, and don't be surprised if it is a game.
there are always a few outliers. By and large there were plenty of blowouts. I'd say the biggest chance of outlier games like 0-6 SC winning is in division 7.

I think the larger disparity occurs in the larger divisions
2 seed Mentor 69 15 seed SHaker Heights 13
11 seed River Valley 69 22 seed Maumee 6
Fremont Ross 71 Normandy -0
SVSM 68 Springfield 0
Dover 63 Tallmadge 21 (scored late)
Maple Heights 58 Firestone 0
I could go on and on.

There is no need to have everyone in. 12 teams to me is probably the most they should go because most years there is a clear cut teams above the bottom half of each region. If you use Harbin points you can usually find the 4-6 teams who would be able to compete and they are usually in that top 12.



I'll also take Malvern over SC
 
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dhsdog06

Well-known member
terrible idea. I don't even think every team should get in the post season in sports like basketball. I mean you go 2-20 you don't need to be in the tourney I am sorry.

Anyway, every team in is yet another move at lowering the bar. I can't see rewarding teams in a regular year that are 1-9 or 2-8 a chance at a playoff game to most likely be a punching bag for someone whether in round 1 or 2. We had 71-0 games in the first round, we rarely see that in a regular playoff year.

Expansion to 12 is probably the furtherest it needs to go.
People in the past 40 years: expansion to 2 is more than enough!
Expansion to 6 divisions is enough!
Expansion to 4 is too much!
Expansion to 8 takes care of everything!
Expanding to divisions helps D1 inbalance and is good enough.

Seriously, as long as there is controversy and money to be made, there will be expansion.
 
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