Cleveland Guardians

Auggie

Well-known member
Since I am in the sports business I can speak to market size and the impact it has. We really use a 3 tiered ranking when it comes to MLB Marketing: Large markets that primarily support 2 MLB teams or are in a large population metro market, mid tier which has more than 2 pro teams + MLB, and small market which is 1 pro team + MLB. CLE actually falls into mid tier but performs like a small market team due primarily to aging demographic and the declining population. Other markets that under perform: Bay Area (Oakland is a disaster), Atlanta (Many Move Ins) Washington (Transient), AZ and both Florida Teams (Many Move Ins & Aging), & Detroit (Aging and Declining Pop). Over performing are Boston, St. Louis, Seattle, Milwaukee, & SD. No surprise that the smaller ones that over perform are in decent sized towns with no not much pro sport comp.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
By the way Cincinnati use to be on par with St Louis on the business side of MLB. Some say a lot changed when Marge was basically forced to sell. Not sure how true that is or what it is says about the city of Cincinnati.
 

CatAlum

Well-known member
Is it correct, Auggie, that Cleveland is the smallest market with teams in 3 of the 4 major professional leagues? if true, wouldn’t that explain, to some degree, why we perform like a small market team?
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
Since I am in the sports business I can speak to market size and the impact it has. We really use a 3 tiered ranking when it comes to MLB Marketing: Large markets that primarily support 2 MLB teams or are in a large population metro market, mid tier which has more than 2 pro teams + MLB, and small market which is 1 pro team + MLB. CLE actually falls into mid tier but performs like a small market team due primarily to aging demographic and the declining population. Other markets that under perform: Bay Area (Oakland is a disaster), Atlanta (Many Move Ins) Washington (Transient), AZ and both Florida Teams (Many Move Ins & Aging), & Detroit (Aging and Declining Pop). Over performing are Boston, St. Louis, Seattle, Milwaukee, & SD. No surprise that the smaller ones that over perform are in decent sized towns with no not much pro sport comp.
When you’re speaking of performance of these markets, are you referring to the MLB team’s local TV ratings? Fan attendance?

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
By the way Cincinnati use to be on par with St Louis on the business side of MLB. Some say a lot changed when Marge was basically forced to sell. Not sure how true that is or what it is says about the city of Cincinnati.
I think it just speaks to how perpetual losing over a long period of time slowly but surely decays a fanbase. Owners need to realize that saving a little bit of money on payroll can really cost them down the line.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Cleveland…

Lake Erie…
Pittsburgh…110 miles
Detroit…170 miles
Cincy
…240 miles

St Louis…

Kansas City…250 miles
Cincy…360 miles
Chicago…350 miles
Atlanta…550 miles (or Dallas…660)
And those teams all suck. Strike the iron while it is hot, and one can reshape things.
 

cjb5656

Well-known member
I think it just speaks to how perpetual losing over a long period of time slowly but surely decays a fanbase. Owners need to realize that saving a little bit of money on payroll can really cost them down the line.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
I have told a cousin who is a huge baseball fan that Cincinnati is a great baseball town, similar to St Louis, but it’s getting harder to prove. Maybe they have killed the golden goose over time?
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Since I am in the sports business I can speak to market size and the impact it has. We really use a 3 tiered ranking when it comes to MLB Marketing: Large markets that primarily support 2 MLB teams or are in a large population metro market, mid tier which has more than 2 pro teams + MLB, and small market which is 1 pro team + MLB. CLE actually falls into mid tier but performs like a small market team due primarily to aging demographic and the declining population. Other markets that under perform: Bay Area (Oakland is a disaster), Atlanta (Many Move Ins) Washington (Transient), AZ and both Florida Teams (Many Move Ins & Aging), & Detroit (Aging and Declining Pop). Over performing are Boston, St. Louis, Seattle, Milwaukee, & SD. No surprise that the smaller ones that over perform are in decent sized towns with no not much pro sport comp.
Definitely makes sense for tix sales.

So, with Intel coming to C-bus and families fleeing some big blue cities, what sort of marketing tack do you push for if you are the new buy-in owner and you want to stay here ?

Let's not fire Tom Hamilton for a quick bump. No more season tix here until I see a "new Dolan Gang".
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
Since I am in the sports business I can speak to market size and the impact it has. We really use a 3 tiered ranking when it comes to MLB Marketing: Large markets that primarily support 2 MLB teams or are in a large population metro market, mid tier which has more than 2 pro teams + MLB, and small market which is 1 pro team + MLB. CLE actually falls into mid tier but performs like a small market team due primarily to aging demographic and the declining population. Other markets that under perform: Bay Area (Oakland is a disaster), Atlanta (Many Move Ins) Washington (Transient), AZ and both Florida Teams (Many Move Ins & Aging), & Detroit (Aging and Declining Pop). Over performing are Boston, St. Louis, Seattle, Milwaukee, & SD. No surprise that the smaller ones that over perform are in decent sized towns with no not much pro sport comp.
Since Nashville is often rumored as a potential landing spot for an expansion team or relocating team, I’m curious about how Nashville would break down in terms of current fan interest. It’s kind of equidistant between Atlanta, Cincinnati and St. Louis. I wonder if those franchises would be impacted in any significant way if Nashville were to get its own team. I suppose Nashville might act a bit like the Florida teams since I think there’s a lot of new blood coming into that city from all over the country.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

cjb5656

Well-known member
So, with Intel coming to C-bus and families fleeing some big blue cities, what sort of marketing tack do you push for if you are the new buy-in owner and you want to stay here ?
If I were the Browns, Cavs, Guardians owners I would be pushing for high speed rail and I would be saturating the CBus market with ticket packages and media presence.
 

cjb5656

Well-known member
Since Nashville is often rumored as a potential landing spot for an expansion team or relocating team, I’m curious about how Nashville would break down in terms of current fan interest. It’s kind of equidistant between Atlanta, Cincinnati and St. Louis. I wonder if those franchises would be impacted in any significant way if Nashville were to get its own team. I suppose Nashville might act a bit like the Florida teams since I think there’s a lot of new blood coming into that city from all over the country.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Spent a lot of time down there and it’s solid Braves territory to where the Braves would try to block a Nashville franchise. Not much Reds or Cardinals presence in TN, except in western TN which is heavy Cards country. Same with western KY. Most of the rest of KY is heavy toward the Reds.
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
I have told a cousin who is a huge baseball fan that Cincinnati is a great baseball town, similar to St Louis, but it’s getting harder to prove. Maybe they have killed the golden goose over time?
There’s a hardcore baseball fanbase, but it’s a dwindling one. Opening Day is still a citywide party, but other than Opening Day, summer weekends are really the only time the Reds draw decently anymore.

I’ve thought of Cincinnati as more of a football town since at least the turn of the century. More so now than ever since the Bengals are finally good and UC is about to step into a better conference.

The Castellini family is a pox on the town. I also think the Reds’ continual failures are part of what allowed FC Cincinnati to quickly get the foothold that they did. Now they siphon off a bunch of disposable income that might otherwise have gone to the Reds.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Also don't discount a team's stadium situation, CLE's is actually not very strong. That row of apartments along 3rd base is outdated and take up valuable real-estate in the seating bowl. The upper deck was also poorly designed and the fans are way too far away from playing field. Also with the field being below ground level on hot summer days there is no moving air, it is very uncomfortable in the lower deck seating bowl. On the positive the corner district is hugely successful and is great at generating per cap $s with the amount of beer they sell at the bar. But the bottom line is nobody goes there in April through mid-May because the weather in CLE just stinks which leads me to...

Outside of boutique stadiums like Wrigley & Fenway I have a feeling in 50 years or so if you don't have a retractable dome you will not have a MLB team. Lousy weather is a killer for MLB and you can easily combat that with a dome. But folks also like to be outdoors when it is nice so they want to be able to have an open roof for nice weather. Also like the District area in CLE more teams are looking for non stationery seat situations. Eventually you are going to see an amphitheater lawn seating concept start to take over in the outfield for a MLB ball park where fans can mingle during the game. Finally the trend in pro sports is captive audience and you get that by providing total comfort so a person spends a complete day at the venue. That not only includes the game but also the pre game meal, post game partying, and most importantly a gambling venue. Look what the Cavs have planned on their promotional calendar:
  • Monday, January 2nd vs. CHI – Sports Betting Night+
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Ticket deal packs in C-bus market with a combination of Clippers/ Guardos tix, advertised with a Tom Hamilton Kwan HR call over the video, with a Kwan Clippers clip and a voice over, "before he was there, he was here!" kinda thing ? Advertise on TV, and give a few away on the local pop radio ?
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
Definitely makes sense for tix sales.

So, with Intel coming to C-bus and families fleeing some big blue cities, what sort of marketing tack do you push for if you are the new buy-in owner and you want to stay here ?

Let's not fire Tom Hamilton for a quick bump. No more season tix here until I see a "new Dolan Gang".
I’m no marketing expert, but I think it would be easy to market Columbus as Guardians Country, especially with the Reds haplessly flailing away.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

cjb5656

Well-known member
Ticket deal packs in C-bus market with a combination of Clippers/ Guardos tix, advertised with a Tom Hamilton Kwan HR call over the video, with a Kwan Clippers clip and a voice over, "before he was there, he was here!" kinda thing ? Advertise on TV, and give a few away on the local pop radio ?
Not a bad idea, at all.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Also don't discount a team's stadium situation, CLE's is actually not very strong. That row of apartments along 3rd base is outdated and take up valuable real-estate in the seating bowl. The upper deck was also poorly designed and the fans are way too far away from playing field. Also with the field being below ground level on hot summer days there is no moving air, it is very uncomfortable in the lower deck seating bowl. On the positive the corner district is hugely successful and is great at generating per cap $s with the amount of beer they sell at the bar. But the bottom line is nobody goes there in April through mid-May because the weather in CLE just stinks which leads me to...

Outside of boutique stadiums like Wrigley & Fenway I have a feeling in 50 years or so if you don't have a retractable dome you will not have a MLB team. Lousy weather is a killer for MLB and you can easily combat that with a dome. But folks also like to be outdoors when it is nice so they want to be able to have an open roof for nice weather. Also like the District area in CLE more teams are looking for non stationery seat situations. Eventually you are going to see an amphitheater lawn seating concept start to take over in the outfield for a MLB ball park where fans can mingle during the game. Finally the trend in pro sports is captive audience and you get that by providing total comfort so a person spends a complete day at the venue. That not only includes the game but also the pre game meal, post game partying, and most importantly a gambling venue. Look what the Cavs have planned on their promotional calendar:
  • Monday, January 2nd vs. CHI – Sports Betting Night+
We have reduced the seating capacity several times already. We are a few moves away from worrying about that, imo. It has to be a "hot ticket", which means a new approach to assembling a team. Which means a combination of sacrifice and other new revenue, somehow.

If not for Art, we'd be refurbishing a retractable 72k seat place, and who knows where the Cavs would be playing.
 
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cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Not a bad idea, at all.
And I'm just a dumb horsehead 🤷‍♂️

edit - the Dolans will hire top-notch heads "to figure it out", have a few meetings after the big presentation, and then "value-engineer" tweak the plan they bought into meh-itude. Don't doubt me. They will end up with "Swisher-value", again.....they are who they are. Caretakers.
 
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AEW Champion

Well-known member
If I were the Browns, Cavs, Guardians owners I would be pushing for high speed rail and I would be saturating the CBus market with ticket packages and media presence.
High speed rail would be a huge boon for the whole region. I would totally make day trips or one-night stay trips to other cities like Columbus, Indy, Louisville, Lexington, etc. if I didn’t have to worry about driving. Plus it would be nice to have that as a transit option for short trips to regional cities like Cleveland, Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Is it correct, Auggie, that Cleveland is the smallest market with teams in 3 of the 4 major professional leagues? if true, wouldn’t that explain, to some degree, why we perform like a small market team?
Not sure but I do think it is the smallest market with 3+ pro teams.

In sports marketing everything is tied together and measured in good old $s. The most important is national media rights fees, (split evenly among all teams) followed by local media rights fees( this is the big advantage for large markets). Ticket sales are also important because that stays local too; tied into that are the per caps of the fan, that is what does each person spend once they get inside the stadium. CLE actually does OK in this department but no where near what the expensive market teams like the Yankees & Dodgers do. Finally there is also sponsorship deals that is such easy money, it cost nothing to offer up naming rights to the stadium or making a company the official ____ of the Guardians. Again the Guards do better than the Devil Rays but Dollar Bank pays nothing near what Bank of America does to be the official bank of the Yankees. It really is an unlevel playing field in MLB.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
We have reduced the seating capacity several times already. We are a few moves away from worrying about that, imo. It has to be a "hot ticket", which means a new approach to assembling a team. Which means a combination of sacrifice and other new revenue, somehow.

If not for Art, we'd be refurbishing a retractable 72k seat place, and who knows where the Cavs would be playing.
Keep an eye on how the schedule starts to develop. Opening day is now in March and I am hearing they want to make it mid March in a 5-10 year period. Then on the back end with expanded playoffs the World Series will be an early November event. How will this play out in CLE or Minneapolis?
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
Not sure but I do think it is the smallest market with 3+ pro teams.

In sports marketing everything is tied together and measured in good old $s. The most important is national media rights fees, (split evenly among all teams) followed by local media rights fees( this is the big advantage for large markets). Ticket sales are also important because that stays local too; tied into that are the per caps of the fan, that is what does each person spend once they get inside the stadium. CLE actually does OK in this department but no where near what the expensive market teams like the Yankees & Dodgers do. Finally there is also sponsorship deals that is such easy money, it cost nothing to offer up naming rights to the stadium or making a company the official ____ of the Guardians. Again the Guards do better than the Devil Rays but Dollar Bank pays nothing near what Bank of America does to be the official bank of the Yankees. It really is an unlevel playing field in MLB.
Can you say the bolded part louder for 14Red? He tries to tell us time and time again over in the Reds thread that attendance doesn’t matter.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

AEW Champion

Well-known member
Keep an eye on how the schedule starts to develop. Opening day is now in March and I am hearing they want to make it mid March in a 5-10 year period. Then on the back end with expanded playoffs the World Series will be an early November event. How will this play out in CLE or Minneapolis?
It’s insanity to play 162 games to only eliminate 18 teams. I wish there were a way to organize a nationwide fan boycott of pre-Jackie Robinson Day games (April 15) to try to make MLB cut the regular season by at least 20 games.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Keep an eye on how the schedule starts to develop. Opening day is now in March and I am hearing they want to make it mid March in a 5-10 year period. Then on the back end with expanded playoffs the World Series will be an early November event. How will this play out in CLE or Minneapolis?
Hope for global warming or give the stretch run games to all the northern teams ? Look at how many cancellations we had. At some point, even baseball billionaires and the Ohio Dolans must realize that they cannot have everything and that they are not the NFL.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
It’s insanity to play 162 games to only eliminate 18 teams. I wish there were a way to organize a nationwide fan boycott of pre-Jackie Robinson Day games (April 15) to try to make MLB cut the regular season by at least 20 games.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …
Eliminating 20 games is cutting your available inventory by 12%, no way does the the owners or players take a 12% hair cut. If it was up to MLB they would start the season in mid March, make the wild card round best of 5 and all other playoff series best of 7, and then finish in early to mid November with the World Series. Nine months is very long but then again high level soccer is now a year round sport with all the various trophied tournies and national team events.
 

Voice

Well-known member
I love Nails, but his actions in New York weren't the smartest given the team's position and it backfired on him. He's still one of my favorites on the team.
Come on man! Didn’t you watch the a$s hole Yankees after they hit their HRs? Every one of them were showing off and gesturing but not a word about it from anyone. Call me old fashioned but the next pitch is in the ear hole.
 
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