Clear Fork Football Coach Named NW District D IV Coach Of The Year...FIRED

Gamma Gobbler said:
I understand what you are saying but removing politics and what not...society is soft and that is FACT!!! My grandson was given a trophty in youth basketball and it said, I swear to you, "2nd Place You're a WINNER":. WTF is that?!? I joked and told him his team is just the first place loser at which time I was chastised by a mother for deminisioning his accomplishment. Really?!? Christ!, a certain spectrum of people today cannot decide on what is a male or female. Get my point?
Sorry words hurt, they didnt at one time but today...yeap, they cause therapy sessions and again, WTF?!?.
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I'm calling BS.
 
spirit454 said:
What else did it say? You either did not read what he wrote or are just looking to create an argument.
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I know what it said.... was it incorrect? Nope.

Pretty sure you have to win some games to come in second. We celebrate silver and even bronze metals in the olympics. We celebrate NFL teams for winning divisions and also for winning AFC or NFC. We do the same in MLB. We celebrate winning, and 2 place you definitely won some games, maybe not the the entire tournament but absolutely those kids were winners and the trophy didn't say anything wrong.
 
cincifbfan said:
I know what it said.... was it incorrect? Nope.

Pretty sure you have to win some games to come in second. We celebrate silver and even bronze metals in the olympics. We celebrate NFL teams for winning divisions and also for winning AFC or NFC. We do the same in MLB. We celebrate winning, and 2 place you definitely won some games, maybe not the the entire tournament but absolutely those kids were winners and the trophy didn't say anything wrong.
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What exactly is a Winner and a Loser?

I went to a youth soccer game and there was no score being kept because the league/parents felt it better that those kids did not differentiate between winning and losing and it was just for fun. However, at the end of the game before anyone could say anything, the kids knew who won and who lost. Why?

Many times, I think our kids are smarter than adults, especially when it comes to black and white, winning and losing...they know. Telling a kid they are a winner because they came in second is not only patronizing to their intelligence but indicating mediocracy is acceptable.

My comment to my grandson was tongue in cheek but he knew he had to work harder to be better to get that championship trophy. I guess my greatest and most, bitter life lesson to my offspring that I will ever leave...there is a difference between winning and losing and you need to choose. One is easy and one is the hardest thing you will ever do.

Like it or not there are Winners and there are Losers and it is high time we stop blowing smoke up our kids arse in making them think it is all the same.
 
Gamma Gobbler said:
What exactly is a Winner and a Loser?

I went to a youth soccer game and there was no score being kept because the league/parents felt it better that those kids did not differentiate between winning and losing and it was just for fun. However, at the end of the game before anyone could say anything, the kids knew who won and who lost. Why?

Many times, I think our kids are smarter than adults, especially when it comes to black and white, winning and losing...they know. Telling a kid they are a winner because they came in second is not only patronizing to their intelligence but indicating mediocracy is acceptable.

My comment to my grandson was tongue in cheek but he knew he had to work harder to be better to get that championship trophy. I guess my greatest and most, bitter life lesson to my offspring that I will ever leave...there is a difference between winning and losing and you need to choose. One is easy and one is the hardest thing you will ever do.

Like it or not there are Winners and there are Losers and it is high time we stop blowing smoke up our kids arse in making them think it is all the same.
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This is where I disagree. Coming in second is an accomplishment and like I said, you did win (maybe not the final contest, but I see nothing wrong with that what the trophy said). It is not patronizing at all, otherwise why do we even give runner up awards, silver metals, etc.

Lastly, being a winner isn't the hardest thing you can do. Winning comes easily to some people. Many times no matter how hard you work, sorry, you're not going to win, let alone be in 1st place. Should we just tell well over 99% of people to stop trying because they're losers? No, acknowledging victories, even 2nd place ones is just fine. If you don't acknowledge those, then why would anyone even care to try most things.
 
cincifbfan said:
This is where I disagree. Coming in second is an accomplishment and like I said, you did win (maybe not the final contest, but I see nothing wrong with that what the trophy said). It is not patronizing at all, otherwise why do we even give runner up awards, silver metals, etc.

Lastly, being a winner isn't the hardest thing you can do. Winning comes easily to some people. Many times no matter how hard you work, sorry, you're not going to win, let alone be in 1st place. Should we just tell well over 99% of people to stop trying because they're losers? No, acknowledging victories, even 2nd place ones is just fine. If you don't acknowledge those, then why would anyone even care to try most things.
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I appreciate your opinion and I see where you are coming from...I respect that. However, a champion is the winner and second is not but to some it is a moral victory.

I doubt winning ever came easy to any champion...maybe, they just made it look easy.
 
cincifbfan said:
This is where I disagree. Coming in second is an accomplishment and like I said, you did win (maybe not the final contest, but I see nothing wrong with that what the trophy said). It is not patronizing at all, otherwise why do we even give runner up awards, silver metals, etc.

Lastly, being a winner isn't the hardest thing you can do. Winning comes easily to some people. Many times no matter how hard you work, sorry, you're not going to win, let alone be in 1st place. Should we just tell well over 99% of people to stop trying because they're losers? No, acknowledging victories, even 2nd place ones is just fine. If you don't acknowledge those, then why would anyone even care to try most things.
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Coming in second is an accomplishment compared to everyone you beat. But when getting a tournament trophy, it can say many things but you are not the winner of the tournament if you are the runner-up.

Being a winner does not come easy. That's an excuse. Everyone who has won something of value has put time into preparing for the challenge. I agree, acknowledge 2nd place, but not as the winner, as the runner-up.
 
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spirit454 said:
Coming in second is an accomplishment compared to everyone you beat. But when getting a tournament trophy, it can say many things but you are not the winner of the tournament if you are the runner-up.

Being a winner does not come easy. That's an excuse. Everyone who has won something of value has put time into preparing for the challenge. I agree, acknowledge 2nd place, but not as the winner, as the runner-up.
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Gamma Gobbler said:
I appreciate your opinion and I see where you are coming from...I respect that. However, a champion is the winner and second is not but to some it is a moral victory.

I doubt winning ever came easy to any champion...maybe, they just made it look easy.
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We are getting into semantics here, but it does matter. Did the trophy say "You're a winner" or "You're the winner." If it said "a winner" then it is correct.

And regardless of what you think, winning does come easy to quite a few people because they have that much more natural talent than other people. I know that goes against the narrative but such is life, and that's an important life lesson. It drives me crazy when people say things like "you can accomplish anything if you work hard enough." That's such a bold-faced lie and that is patronizing.
 
cincifbfan said:
We are getting into semantics here, but it does matter. Did the trophy say "You're a winner" or "You're the winner." If it said "a winner" then it is correct.

And regardless of what you think, winning does come easy to quite a few people because they have that much more natural talent than other people. I know that goes against the narrative but such is life, and that's an important life lesson. It drives me crazy when people say things like "you can accomplish anything if you work hard enough." That's such a bold-faced lie and that is patronizing.
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agree with the last quote, you are never guaranteed accomplishments or winning if you work hard enough, but its the process of working hard that helps to find improvement and test your grit.
 
cincifbfan said:
We are getting into semantics here, but it does matter. Did the trophy say "You're a winner" or "You're the winner." If it said "a winner" then it is correct.

And regardless of what you think, winning does come easy to quite a few people because they have that much more natural talent than other people. I know that goes against the narrative but such is life, and that's an important life lesson. It drives me crazy when people say things like "you can accomplish anything if you work hard enough." That's such a bold-faced lie and that is patronizing.
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ok
 
spirit454 said:
I tend to believe that this coach in question has been the same way for many years and issues were not addressed because he had 100% support from key community members. Now one of those community members is a parent with a player on the team and the support of the coach is gone and so is the coach.
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My kid's school played agaisnt this guy several times, and he does come accross as a donkey's butt, seemed to think they were a lot better than they were. It was weird. So from the little I know about him, I can see that he pissed off the wrong people with his arrogance.
 
spirit454 said:
Hell, most coaches would do the same. And have.
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Most coaches would not do the same. Stay and watch other games he can watch on TV or purchase the replay from the OHSAA …. That’s BS! And stay and party with his Urbana HS buddies …. Instead of traveling home with HIS team and celebrate with them ….. again I call BS!! Minster admin, a lot of parents and players were glad he got hired by the rock.
 
BUDs12 said:
Most coaches would not do the same. Stay and watch other games he can watch on TV or purchase the replay from the OHSAA …. That’s BS! And stay and party with his Urbana HS buddies …. Instead of traveling home with HIS team and celebrate with them ….. again I call BS!! Minster admin, a lot of parents and players were glad he got hired by the rock.
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I was meaning a lot of coaches do not ride the bus with team.
 
cincifbfan said:
I have never heard of coaches not riding the bus with the team.
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I'm speaking only about knowing of head coaches not riding the bus. Football teams have a lot of coaches who can ride the bus. Many head coaches I know, do not. IT is very common to have multiple vehicles carrying people to games. Due to the size of the staff and the amount of equipment.
 
spirit454 said:
I'm speaking only about knowing of head coaches not riding the bus. Football teams have a lot of coaches who can ride the bus. Many head coaches I know, do not. IT is very common to have multiple vehicles carrying people to games. Due to the size of the staff and the amount of equipment.
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Again, I have never heard of head coach not riding the bus with the team.
 
BirdDog10 said:
Not riding the bus with the team wasn't the issue, staying in Canton for the weekend with buddies while the team and fans drove 3 hours home was
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I could see that. The conversation was about head coaches not riding the team bus. And that happens.
 
spirit454 said:
Yes you have, I've told you a couple times now. It happens every year. Happens in other sports also.
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Ok, let me rephrase, I've only heard of it in this thread.

What an absolute joke that the head coach doesn't ride with the team. Seems like a HUGE liability issue, and even more importantly, a culture issue within your program..... Head coach talks about things like "we are family, your team is your brother, etc." and then you as the HC are too good to slum it on a yellow bus with everyone else.
 
cincifbfan said:
Ok, let me rephrase, I've only heard of it in this thread.

What an absolute joke that the head coach doesn't ride with the team. Seems like a HUGE liability issue, and even more importantly, a culture issue within your program..... Head coach talks about things like "we are family, your team is your brother, etc." and then you as the HC are too good to slum it on a yellow bus with everyone else.
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Not everyone sees it as slumming. It's no joke. With all the work that goes into running a successful program, sometimes the set up at an away game starts way before the team arrives. Many head coaches like to be a part of that so when the team arrives they are prepared. As I said, there are more team vehicles traveling to an away game then just a bus. I worked with one head coach that would show up an hour before the team did.
 
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BirdDog10 said:
Not riding the bus with the team wasn't the issue, staying in Canton for the weekend with buddies while the team and fans drove 3 hours home was
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There are some things wrong with that. I have to wonder in your specific case, if he didn't give a crap about the job or town and knew it was not his forever home. is that the coach currently at Dublin?
 
spirit454 said:
Not everyone sees it as slumming. It's no joke. With all the work that goes into running a successful program, sometimes the set up at an away game starts way before the team arrives. Many head coaches like to be a part of that so when the team arrives they are prepared. As I said, there are more team vehicles traveling to an away game then just a bus. I worked with one head coach that would show up an hour before the team did.
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For some programs, yes they have more vehicles than buses. And yes, some coaches do show up ahead of the team. The head coach shouldn't be one of them, he should be on a bus with the team, period.
 
cincifbfan said:
For some programs, yes they have more vehicles than buses. And yes, some coaches do show up ahead of the team. The head coach shouldn't be one of them, he should be on a bus with the team, period.
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Which bus? What if a team take 3? Do the OC and DC have to be on that bus as well. Is the DB coach allowed to drive the equipment truck? Does the video coach have to ride the bus? I respect opinions but thinking yours should direct everyone else is a little arrogant, don't you think?
 
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spirit454 said:
Which bus? What if a team take 3? Do the OC and DC have to be on that bus as well. Is the DB coach allowed to drive the equipment truck? Does the video coach have to ride the bus? I respect opinions but thinking yours should direct everyone else is a little arrogant, don't you think?
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Pick a bus, it doesn't matter. My point is if something happens when the HC isn't around, it's his because he wasn't supervising. If he leaves an hour before the rest of the team, that means other coaches are supervising for that hour, plus bus ride.

There's 2 things at play here.

1. Liability and CYA...... If you are the guy in charge as a head coach, then BE IN CHARGE. Again, if something happens, accident, or behavior problem when he's not around, it's going to be him that is ultimately responsible.

2. Culture...... Your culture is going to suck when your Head Coach is too good to slum it on the yellow cheese wagon with his team and assistants. You, the head coach, and others may not realize it's a problem, but I PROMISE you, the team notices, parents notice, and the staff notices and it leads to division and discontent. Believe what you want.

I'm arrogant for having any semblance of common sense by saying the head coach should ride the bus? In today's highly litigious society, I cannot fathom how anyone could argue the head coach should be away from the team for possibly hours at a time on game day.
 
cincifbfan said:
Pick a bus, it doesn't matter. My point is if something happens when the HC isn't around, it's his because he wasn't supervising. If he leaves an hour before the rest of the team, that means other coaches are supervising for that hour, plus bus ride.

There's 2 things at play here.

1. Liability and CYA...... If you are the guy in charge as a head coach, then BE IN CHARGE. Again, if something happens, accident, or behavior problem when he's not around, it's going to be him that is ultimately responsible.

2. Culture...... Your culture is going to suck when your Head Coach is too good to slum it on the yellow cheese wagon with his team and assistants. You, the head coach, and others may not realize it's a problem, but I PROMISE you, the team notices, parents notice, and the staff notices and it leads to division and discontent. Believe what you want.

I'm arrogant for having any semblance of common sense by saying the head coach should ride the bus? In today's highly litigious society, I cannot fathom how anyone could argue the head coach should be away from the team for possibly hours at a time on game day.
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All coaches are BOE approved and have emergency medical access and take charge in all types of scenarios. :)
 
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