Cincinnati D1 Preseason Poll

Loveland may not be as good as last year but how could you be when you lose two D1 players, yet they sit a top of the ECC with the exact same record as this time last year? Loss to edgewood short handed in OT on the road, loss to rival Walnut on the road and loss to RB who could easily go to state. I think Loveland is just fine and obviously have superior coaching if they are a suspect 13-3..

Mason is strong and old are is a difference maker.. She makes the other player better than they actually are. That Transfer was a blessing. Tourney draw will be fun! 4-6 is irrelevant. Who ever six is will either jump 5. or 4 to avoid MND
You failed to mention that Lovelands HC has Cancer and still manages to coach his team. The kids and program have battled through it, not to mention Covid. I could not imagine.
 
This is a great thread. However, when its all said and done one of these teams have to see MND!!! I pick MND vs Mason in the Regional Finals. Mason is very very good, just not good enough this year.
 

Spartan1

New member
This is a great thread. However, when its all said and done one of these teams have to see MND!!! I pick MND vs Mason in the Regional Finals. Mason is very very good, just not good enough this year.
Totally agree, MND is head and shoulders above everyone else. It’s an equity issue. Private schools will always continue to draw some of the best talent. JMO
 
Totally agree, MND is head and shoulders above everyone else. It’s an equity issue. Private schools will always continue to draw some of the best talent. JMO
Absolutely. Girls basketball in this area is pretty much the rich get richer....better players go to the better programs like MND, West, Mason, Loveland and/or transfer there. You can try to build your program from within and teams will have a few good seasons here and there doing that, but its hard when you best kids leave your feeder programs for the established ones. You cant win without good kids, and your good kids leave. Sometimes the cycle perpetuates itself. You need talent to win, especially at the D1 level.
 
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Absolutely. Girls basketball in this area is pretty much the rich get richer....better players go to the better programs like MND, West, Mason, Loveland and/or transfer there. You can try to build you program from within and teams will have a few good seasons here and there doing that, but its hard when you best kids leave your feeder programs for the established ones. You cant win without good kids, and your good kids leave. Sometimes the cycle perpetuates itself. You need talent to win, especially at the D1 level.
Very well said and its the TRUTH!!!
 

chlnewbie

Active member
Absolutely. Girls basketball in this area is pretty much the rich get richer....better players go to the better programs like MND, West, Mason, Loveland and/or transfer there. You can try to build your program from within and teams will have a few good seasons here and there doing that, but its hard when you best kids leave your feeder programs for the established ones. You cant win without good kids, and your good kids leave. Sometimes the cycle perpetuates itself. You need talent to win, especially at the D1 level.
I think Alot of it has to do with culture and the Head Coach. Each school you mentioned has great culture and HC. MND, West, and Mason have had this for a long while, and you can see that Loveland has built that in a short time. It makes it much easier to build within if you have a place kids don't want to leave. It's hard to break the cycle but it can be done. I've always said AD's need to hire outside of the box nowadays. It certainly worked for Loveland. I don't think anyone would have guessed that hire.
 

Spartan1

New member
I think Alot of it has to do with culture and the Head Coach. Each school you mentioned has great culture and HC. MND, West, and Mason have had this for a long while, and you can see that Loveland has built that in a short time. It makes it much easier to build within if you have a place kids don't want to leave. It's hard to break the cycle but it can be done. I've always said AD's need to hire outside of the box nowadays. It certainly worked for Loveland. I don't think anyone would have guessed that hire.
I would agree that culture has a lot to do with it. To me having copious amounts of transfers indicates a culture problem and your not loyal to those who have come up with in your program. As far as Loveland they would’ve been an average team this year without transfers. I do agree that their coaches are going a good job building the program.
 

chlnewbie

Active member
I get what you're saying but that's like saying Mason would be avg without a 6'6 Transfer. You are downplaying the reason those players chose those schools.

And I would like to think Loveland would be better than 11-11 even without the transfers. And I would like to think Mason would still be in the GMC hunt without their Big.
 
I think Alot of it has to do with culture and the Head Coach. Each school you mentioned has great culture and HC. MND, West, and Mason have had this for a long while, and you can see that Loveland has built that in a short time. It makes it much easier to build within if you have a place kids don't want to leave. It's hard to break the cycle but it can be done. I've always said AD's need to hire outside of the box nowadays. It certainly worked for Loveland. I don't think anyone would have guessed that hire.
True it certainly can be done but it's hard to build a winning culture when you don't have the athletes to compete. Doc does a great job but he came back to MND when they had a great class of kids walk in the door; other kids come to play with that class understandably and it attracts more kids. Absolutely nothing wrong with it and kudos to MND for continuing to prosper; but that's talent winning games not the culture. Try building the culture at a school with zero talent and see how many more games they win in a landlocked or small urban district. Just an opinion.
 

Spartan1

New member
I get what you're saying but that's like saying Mason would be avg without a 6'6 Transfer. You are downplaying the reason those players chose those schools.

And I would like to think Loveland would be better than 11-11 even without the transfers. And I would like to think Mason would still be in the GMC hunt without their Big.
 

Spartan1

New member
Different argument, I think Mason is a lot deeper than Loveland. In the end, if kids are transferring because of sports what are we teaching them? I get if family situations change, but that’s rarely the case.
 

chlnewbie

Active member
Different argument, I think Mason is a lot deeper than Loveland. In the end, if kids are transferring because of sports what are we teaching them? I get if family situations change, but that’s rarely the case.
Well in Lovelands case I'm going to assume family situation changed because they aren't open enrollment. And I don't care how much you like a program or Coach I'm not spending 1500 a month in rent or buying a 300k home just so my kid can hoop. Not when there are other options.
 

chlnewbie

Active member
Not any glaring upsets in D1. Not sure I see any in the second round also, but the most intriguing matchups are definitely East vs Edgewood and Lebanon vs Ursuline
 

SWOHHSfan

New member
12-15 minutes? Looked very athletic but rusty offensively.
If Princeton wins vs Monroe next; likely Wayne in Districts.
Sure she'd be much sharper by then, 2/27.
 

chlnewbie

Active member
Mason--55
Lakota West--25

Real bad choice by Fishman to go in with the Comets
I disagree. Programs like LW aren't playing for Sectioional titles, they are playing for regional births and beyond. This was the only path to regionals. They lost, it happens but any other bracket and maybe they win today but it's a guaranteed loss Saturday. Not even Mason fans can say they were positive they were going to blow out West. Anyone who truly thought it was a bad choice should have had the stones to say it before hand.
 

firehawk

Active member
I disagree. Programs like LW aren't playing for Sectioional titles, they are playing for regional births and beyond. This was the only path to regionals. They lost, it happens but any other bracket and maybe they win today but it's a guaranteed loss Saturday. Not even Mason fans can say they were positive they were going to blow out West. Anyone who truly thought it was a bad choice should have had the stones to say it before hand.
I will agree that it was their best chance at the regionals but even that was a slim chance. Springboro has owned West the last 3 times they played. It’s not a given Mason wins against them either. When Mason and Springboro played during the season it went to overtime. I figured West might be in trouble after Kings basically took them to wire and gave them all they wanted.
 

SWOHHSfan

New member
This Isn’t the same LW team he’s had in past. No inside presence.
Fishman knows that.

If LW is playing for “RegIonals and beyond“ how can this be the ”only path to the regionals”?
”...its a guaranteed loss Saturday” then he’s not playing for Regionals.
Just lucky that Springboro was paired up vs LW/Mason winner; could have been Wayne or Centerville.
Cin teams aren’t supposed to know where Dayton teams have landed in “Draw” And vice versa.

However, SW OH Brackets were simple to figure out this year for the Cincinnati side
Everyone wanted to avoid MND; LW could have avoided them until Regional Finals and wouldn’t have had to play Mason until Regional Semis If they go to Cin 1.
MND was going to pick Cin 2 or Cin 5 because they know 5th best team in Cincinnati isn’t as good as Top 3 in Dayton this year.
And that’s who MNDs District opponent will be (If seeds held, Edgewood, with upsets now LE or Colerain.}

LW should have playing Monroe tonight, Princeton should have been playing Lebanon and Mason should have been playing Loveland.
Really, Really, Really Dumb Choice (not a bad choice in his mind, because he beat Mason in 2014 tourney after losing 2 times in regular season) because LW would have had a much easier path to District Championship game against Monroe or Walnut Hills than Mason.
Always take easiest path, because upsets can always happen elsewhere.

GMC commissioner should have made a phone call to LW AD Evening of draw.
WTF was Coach Fishman thinking?
4 GMC teams in District Finals would look much better for league than 3 GMC teams.
 

chlnewbie

Active member
This Isn’t the same LW team he’s had in past. No inside presence.
Fishman knows that.

If LW is playing for “RegIonals and beyond“ how can this be the ”only path to the regionals”?
”...its a guaranteed loss Saturday” then he’s not playing for Regionals.
Just lucky that Springboro was paired up vs LW/Mason winner; could have been Wayne or Centerville.
Cin teams aren’t supposed to know where Dayton teams have landed in “Draw” And vice versa.

However, SW OH Brackets were simple to figure out this year for the Cincinnati side
Everyone wanted to avoid MND; LW could have avoided them until Regional Finals and wouldn’t have had to play Mason until Regional Semis If they go to Cin 1.
MND was going to pick Cin 2 or Cin 5 because they know 5th best team in Cincinnati isn’t as good as Top 3 in Dayton this year.
And that’s who MNDs District opponent will be (If seeds held, Edgewood, with upsets now LE or Colerain.}

LW should have playing Monroe tonight, Princeton should have been playing Lebanon and Mason should have been playing Loveland.
Really, Really, Really Dumb Choice (not a bad choice in his mind, because he beat Mason in 2014 tourney after losing 2 times in regular season) because LW would have had a much easier path to District Championship game against Monroe or Walnut Hills than Mason.
Always take easiest path, because upsets can always happen elsewhere.

GMC commissioner should have made a phone call to LW AD Evening of draw.
WTF was Coach Fishman thinking?
4 GMC teams in District Finals would look much better for league than 3 GMC teams.
I think you are twisting my words, please re read. I said "an any other bracket maybe they win today but it's a guaranteed loss Saturday". And in your scenerio that would be to Dayton Wayne. So what they jumped Mason, had they won it would have been brilliant and a collapse by Mason. And let's not forget at the time, Mason's Stimulus package AKA Oldcare was hurt at the time of the draw with no real timeline of return. Fishman Gambled, and he lost, oh well. But I don't think he gives a damn about 4 GMC schools in the district finals.
 
Well in Lovelands case I'm going to assume family situation changed because they aren't open enrollment. And I don't care how much you like a program or Coach I'm not spending 1500 a month in rent or buying a 300k home just so my kid can hoop. Not when there are other options.
Oldacre gave an interview where she specifically said she came to Mason to play for Matula (which is technically against OHSAA rules and you're not supposed to actually admit to that, need to claim better education and what not, but Mark Wise said the same about Gentry in an interview and got his waiver so the precedent was there).
 
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