Chardon at Mentor Scrimmage

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
Back to the scrimmage: My boss/ co-workerhas a kid playing for Mentor and I get my information from him. He said Mentor did not spend one minute prepping for Chardon. The defense was told read the guards and get to the ball. They were more busy prepping for McKinley. I can see how Chardon and it’s misdirection would cause problems.
Makes sense because that offense isn't in D1 really. It's just a scrimmage to help in playing a physical scheme.

Plus with the crappy defensive coaching , they'd always start slow as I said multiple times. Latter half of play they tightened up
 

Cardgrad90

Active member
Back to the scrimmage: My boss/ co-workerhas a kid playing for Mentor and I get my information from him. He said Mentor did not spend one minute prepping for Chardon. The defense was told read the guards and get to the ball. They were more busy prepping for McKinley. I can see how Chardon and it’s misdirection would cause problems.
This is what I heard too. This scrimmage was not about Chardon, but about Mentor getting some live experience. Could be that McKinley isn't even the main focal point either....They won't look past McKinley, but they will most likely not expose all that they have available to them.
 
In all honesty, Chardon could hang with most of D1 the last few years and most likely this year. Enrollment wise A D1 school has more depth than the smaller schools but Chardon is a school that has done a phenomenal job reloading at positions. Depth is the issue when it comes to divisions. Way more two way players at lower levels, but I believe that Chardon's offense can work consistently at the higher level. Their coaching would make adjustments to win games. You don't win states back to back and have an opportunity for a 3rd this year without doing something right. They play a brand of football that is successful in November where spread teams can suffer from the elements.
 

topperbounce

Active member
In all honesty, Chardon could hang with most of D1 the last few years and most likely this year. Enrollment wise A D1 school has more depth than the smaller schools but Chardon is a school that has done a phenomenal job reloading at positions. Depth is the issue when it comes to divisions. Way more two way players at lower levels, but I believe that Chardon's offense can work consistently at the higher level. Their coaching would make adjustments to win games. You don't win states back to back and have an opportunity for a 3rd this year without doing something right. They play a brand of football that is successful in November where spread teams can suffer from the elements.
Speaking of depth, Chardon does not have one player going both ways. That said, they have a couple skill guys who start on defense who will carry the ball on offense in a “spot duty” fashion.

Just because an athlete plays for a D1 school doesn’t automatically make them better football players. That logic spewed throughout this thread is frustrating. I’m not saying Chardon could win consistently at the D1 level, I’m saying they’ve had the talent, depth, lack of 2-way players to compete at the highest level the last 3 years.

I’m not taking anything away from Mentor or anyone else in D1 because they are ALL elite programs (and I root for Mentor), my opinion is, and will always be, Chardon could’ve played with anyone the last 2 years, and this season.
 

cjb5656

Well-known member
Yes, Chardon would beat a lot of D1 and D2 teams and would make some solid playoff runs too, but D1 and D2 get a little different when you start running into the likes of St. Edward, St . Ignatius, Hoban, LaSalle and such. Hard for most publics to step it up to that level.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
Speaking of depth, Chardon does not have one player going both ways. That said, they have a couple skill guys who start on defense who will carry the ball on offense in a “spot duty” fashion.

Just because an athlete plays for a D1 school doesn’t automatically make them better football players. That logic spewed throughout this thread is frustrating. I’m not saying Chardon could win consistently at the D1 level, I’m saying they’ve had the talent, depth, lack of 2-way players to compete at the highest level the last 3 years.

I’m not taking anything away from Mentor or anyone else in D1 because they are ALL elite programs (and I root for Mentor), my opinion is, and will always be, Chardon could’ve played with anyone the last 2 years, and this season.
Nobody said the part in bold at all. You are making stuff up now to be offended

I said this offense wouldn't work to win D1 with the Chardon size and such. That's why we have separate divisions. Chardon doesn't have the line or RB that the exception to the rule Hilliard Davidson had. It also wasnt the same offense.

Mentor is hardly a stalwart on defense with our bad coaching and even our team was figuring out and stuffing Chardon in the latter half of the scrimmage. And I don't think they were spending much time even prepping for Chardon as it's just a practice and the wing t isn't used much in D1

The teams are more balanced in D1. As I said , we'd lose nine out of ten times to teams like Eds if we ran the wing t. Their lines are just way bigger and those kids don't grow on trees for closed enrollment publics schools. You cant overpower them by just running.

I root for Chardon too and think they'd compete in D1 well overall this year and last. I just don't think that offense would work to win the region with what they have. Again that's why we have divisions
 
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Cardgrad90

Active member
Yes, Chardon would beat a lot of D1 and D2 teams and would make some solid playoff runs too, but D1 and D2 get a little different when you start running into the likes of St. Edward, St . Ignatius, Hoban, LaSalle and such. Hard for most publics to step it up to that level.
There is a major differnce between the schools above and a Mentor or other public school. Those schools pull from an entire region and seem to "end up with" some very dominant players. Often the biggest line men, some of the most skilled position players...…weird.
 

the123kidz

Well-known member
I think what is amazing is the amount of good football players and coaches that are all up in that area. Mentor, Chardon, Perry, Kirtland every so often Lake Catholic makes a run. It is really impressive if you ask me.
 

fbrox

Well-known member
Nobody said the part in bold at all. You are making stuff up now to be offended

I said this offense wouldn't work to win D1 with the Chardon size and such. That's why we have separate divisions. Chardon doesn't have the line or RB that the exception to the rule Hilliard Davidson had. It also wasnt the same offense.

Mentor is hardly a stalwart on defense with our bad coaching and even our team was figuring out and stuffing Chardon in the latter half of the scrimmage. And I don't think they were spending much time even prepping for Chardon as it's just a practice and the wing t isn't used much in D1

The teams are more balanced in D1. As I said , we'd lose nine out of ten times to teams like Eds if we ran the wing t. Their lines are just way bigger and those kids don't grow on trees for closed enrollment publics schools. You cant overpower them by just running.

I root for Chardon too and think they'd compete in D1 well overall this year and last. I just don't think that offense would work to win the region with what they have. Again that's why we have divisions
I agree with you on almost every point you made. I do take exception to one point though and that is your statement about the line not growing on trees. When you have a school the size of Mentor,Mason, Sycamore, the Lakotas, Northmont, Strongsville, Brunswick etc you have over 750 boys to pick to play football, the law of averages say that you should be more than able to find and develop 12-15 quality offensive and defensive linemen per year. There’s no excuse for a lack of depth in that area if you’ve created a positive culture. If you can’t find them and develop them, you have to reflect on why.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
I agree with you on almost every point you made. I do take exception to one point though and that is your statement about the line not growing on trees. When you have a school the size of Mentor,Mason, Sycamore, the Lakotas, Northmont, Strongsville, Brunswick etc you have over 750 boys to pick to play football, the law of averages say that you should be more than able to find and develop 12-15 quality offensive and defensive linemen per year. There’s no excuse for a lack of depth in that area if you’ve created a positive culture. If you can’t find them and develop them, you have to reflect on why.
You can find linemen. You cant consistently find freak athletes who can go to big 10 schools and be as big as big 10 lines. Even Mentor has had like 5 in the last 20 plus years. Those kids don't grow on trees.

Iggy and Eds can get 10 linemen from 10 different cities. Mentor has one school district . Sometimes the talent and size won't be there That's why the private school lines are always bigger and a huge strength. Can have all over to pull from. One area is down, go to another

Mentor actually has been weaker at LB in terms of coaching along with coverage. Dline has been the best of the 3 sections on D. Still can't build those lines the same way as private schools who have a bigger reach
 
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Cardgrad90

Active member
I agree with you on almost every point you made. I do take exception to one point though and that is your statement about the line not growing on trees. When you have a school the size of Mentor,Mason, Sycamore, the Lakotas, Northmont, Strongsville, Brunswick etc you have over 750 boys to pick to play football, the law of averages say that you should be more than able to find and develop 12-15 quality offensive and defensive linemen per year. There’s no excuse for a lack of depth in that area if you’ve created a positive culture. If you can’t find them and develop them, you have to reflect on why.
To chime in. Yes, Mentor has a large base of students to pull from. But, just because a kid might look big and should play football doesn't mean that:
1. He wants to
2. He's athletic enough to do it
3. He has the mindset to battle on the line

I coached in the youth league when my sons were coming up through MYFA. There were only a handful of what you would consider a prototypical lineman that came through that league. We tried to pull the "big kids" in but either they weren't interested in football at all or they didn't want the work that came with playing. So many kids today aren't willing to put in the work that football or other sports require. The kids who take to these fields today are the minority, by far, among their peers. The ones who are willing to work at this all year round. The players on varsity on Friday night, and most of those kids on the sideline, have not taken a day off from doing some sort of football related betterment since the last day of last season. Good luck finding many more than are out there already to do the work.
 

Bad Blake

Active member
Mentor grad, you do know Chardon put their 2’s in halfway through the 2nd quarter right? That’s not to say Mentor wasn’t playing better on defense but it’s worth noting since I’ve seen you mention several times that Mentor figured out how to stop Chardon later in the scrimmage
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
Mentor grad, you do know Chardon put their 2’s in halfway through the 2nd quarter right? That’s not to say Mentor wasn’t playing better on defense but it’s worth noting since I’ve seen you mention several times that Mentor figured out how to stop Chardon later in the scrimmage
Were you even at the scrimmage ? Both teams rotated guys. It's laughable that you or the Chardon guys think they were the only ones doing so. I saw 3 rbs for Mentor for example. Prob 5 wrs.

Chardon scored on their first possession aided by a bogus PI call way away from the play. After that they managed a FG the rest of play. Reading some of you wrc guys talk about it, they were plowing Mentor over and going up and down the field repeatedly. Give me a break

As I've said , the bragging about practice is a little much when talking about schools that won't schedule Mentor in a real game. Scrimmages aren't the same prep or situations as real games
 

Bad Blake

Active member
Were you even at the scrimmage ? Both teams rotated guys. It's laughable that you or the Chardon guys think they were the only ones doing so. I saw 3 rbs for Mentor for example. Prob 5 wrs.

Chardon scored on their first possession aided by a bogus PI call way away from the play. After that they managed a FG the rest of play. Reading some of you wrc guys talk about it, they were plowing Mentor over and going up and down the field repeatedly. Give me a break

As I've said , the bragging about practice is a little much when talking about schools that won't schedule Mentor in a real game. Scrimmages aren't the same prep or situations as real games
Were you even at the scrimmage ? Both teams rotated guys. It's laughable that you or the Chardon guys think they were the only ones doing so. I saw 3 rbs for Mentor for example. Prob 5 wrs.

Chardon scored on their first possession aided by a bogus PI call way away from the play. After that they managed a FG the rest of play. Reading some of you wrc guys talk about it, they were plowing Mentor over and going up and down the field repeatedly. Give me a break

As I've said , the bragging about practice is a little much when talking about schools that won't schedule Mentor in a real game. Scrimmages aren't the same prep or situations as real games
I didn’t say Chardon was the only team rotating guys.

I didn’t say they were plowing over Mentor and going up and down the field repeatedly

I didn’t brag about anything

The fact remains that Mentor’s 1st defense was stopping Chardon’s 2nd string offense in the later portions of the scrimmage. In the interest of fair reporting of course.

Also, I heard (because no I wasn’t there) that Chardon had a long TD called back on a hold. If that is true then the interception is sort of negated.

Also, if game planning were involved, you’d have to give the nod to Chardon, no? As we’ve seen many times how you feel about Mentor’s defensive staff.

I’m going to try to make it to the Mentor vs Riverside game. I love that matchup for Lake County. Nothing but the best for your Cardinals this year
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
I didn’t say Chardon was the only team rotating guys.

I didn’t say they were plowing over Mentor and going up and down the field repeatedly

I didn’t brag about anything

The fact remains that Mentor’s 1st defense was stopping Chardon’s 2nd string offense in the later portions of the scrimmage. In the interest of fair reporting of course.

Also, I heard (because no I wasn’t there) that Chardon had a long TD called back on a hold. If that is true then the interception is sort of negated.

Also, if game planning were involved, you’d have to give the nod to Chardon, no? As we’ve seen many times how you feel about Mentor’s defensive staff.

I’m going to try to make it to the Mentor vs Riverside game. I love that matchup for Lake County. Nothing but the best for your Cardinals this year
So you weren't there. You are getting your information 2nd hand from I'm sure Chardon guys who will have one sided reviews.

You just went from saying you never said Mentor didn't rotate guys to saying it was our first team vs their second team ...talking out both sides of your mouth. And again you werent there and are getting info from chardon guys.

No the int isn't negated. The int was a bull crap call 10-15 yards down the field from the interception that wasn't around the play and was ticky tack. The blatant holds on two guys were the only reason that run went from a guy getting crushed to scoring a 30 yard TD. Nice try

I do think Mentor would have won a full game with better prep even though the coaching isn't good on D. And I do think they were figuring stuff out. As I said , Chardon scored on the first possession aided by the PI and managed a FG only the rest of the half

The wrc guys have been concentrating on this scrimmage for years on here while ignoring that a practice and real game arent the same. And Chardon won't schedule the real thing.

Yeah Mentor vs Riverside or any other public is fine with me.
 
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Bad Blake

Active member
So you weren't there. You are getting your information 2nd hand from I'm sure Chardon guys who will have one sided reviews.

You just went from saying you never said Mentor didn't rotate guys to saying it was our first team vs their second team ...talking out both sides of your mouth. And again you werent there and are getting info from chardon guys.

No the int isn't negated. The int was a bull crap call 10-15 yards down the field from the interception that wasn't around the play and was ticky tack. The blatant holds on two guys were the only reason that run went from a guy getting crushed to scoring a 30 yard TD. Nice try

I do think Mentor would have won a full game with better prep even though the coaching isn't good on D. And I do think they were figuring stuff out. As I said , Chardon scored on the first possession aided by the PI and managed a FG only the rest of the half

The wrc guys have been concentrating on this scrimmage for years on here while ignoring that a practice and real game arent the same. And Chardon won't schedule the real thing.

Yeah Mentor vs Riverside or any other public is fine with me.
How is me getting information from Chardon guys any different than your information (you being a Mentor guy)?

Rotating guys and subbing an entire 2nd team in are different things and you know it.

We could go round and round. I’ll chuckle at your next sick burn like usual and move on. Good luck to Mentor
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
How is me getting information from Chardon guys any different than your information (you being a Mentor guy)?

Rotating guys and subbing an entire 2nd team in are different things and you know it.

We could go round and round. I’ll chuckle at your next sick burn like usual and move on. Good luck to Mentor
Um there's no difference between actually attending a scrimmage vs hearing from people while not going ? That's just common sense

Probably should actually go instead of commenting with second hand info clearly given by Chardon homers.

I'll await your first clever burn. Maybe one day you'll stumble upon one
 

fbrox

Well-known member
To chime in. Yes, Mentor has a large base of students to pull from. But, just because a kid might look big and should play football doesn't mean that:
1. He wants to
2. He's athletic enough to do it
3. He has the mindset to battle on the line

I coached in the youth league when my sons were coming up through MYFA. There were only a handful of what you would consider a prototypical lineman that came through that league. We tried to pull the "big kids" in but either they weren't interested in football at all or they didn't want the work that came with playing. So many kids today aren't willing to put in the work that football or other sports require. The kids who take to these fields today are the minority, by far, among their peers. The ones who are willing to work at this all year round. The players on varsity on Friday night, and most of those kids on the sideline, have not taken a day off from doing some sort of football related betterment since the last day of last season. Good luck finding many more than are out there already to do the work.
I agree but every school, big or small faces that. The law of averages says you should have a better chance to pull quality from the higher quantity. If you can’t, you have to check your culture.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
I agree but every school, big or small faces that. The law of averages says you should have a better chance to pull quality from the higher quantity. If you can’t, you have to check your culture.
The law of averages says you'll have a lot more chances to pull freak athletes from 7 counties vs one school district. Even the private school big school guys admit that they have a huge advantage in the trenches because of this. Stop acting like you don't know this.
 

fbrox

Well-known member
You can find linemen. You cant consistently find freak athletes who can go to big 10 schools and be as big as big 10 lines. Even Mentor has had like 5 in the last 20 plus years. Those kids don't grow on trees.

Iggy and Eds can get 10 linemen from 10 different cities. Mentor has one school district . Sometimes the talent and size won't be there That's why the private school lines are always bigger and a huge strength. Can have all over to pull from. One area is down, go to another

Mentor actually has been weaker at LB in terms of coaching along with coverage. Dline has been the best of the 3 sections on D. Still can't build those lines the same way as private schools who have a bigger reach
I agree Ed’s and Hoban are on historic rolls, this provides them opportunities for greater exposure to attract promising players at all positions to their programs. It’s tough for local publics to compete when their middle schools are recruiting grounds for these guys. I recently heard a kid is going to Ed’s from 45 miles out east. Triv did a great job in guarding his borders, Lake used to pull Mentor public kids until he got there. This was a key part of his formula, keep Mentor kids and make it fun. It seemed to work.
 

Cardgrad90

Active member
I agree but every school, big or small faces that. The law of averages says you should have a better chance to pull quality from the higher quantity. If you can’t, you have to check your culture.
Quantity never means quality. The law of averages might suggest that, on average, there would be the opportunity to find more big kids in a deeper pool of samples. However, it does not mean that those big kids are interested in playing football.


I understand the premise that you are promoting but the reality is that a big kid who wants to play line, and has been happy doing that all through youth, is not as prevalent as you suggest.
 
The public vs private is a great debate. More so now over the last decade has the private sector taken a bigger jump in recruiting than before. Social media has played an even bigger roll. Its not uncommon to have a great 7th/8th grade squad in your public school only to have 5 or 6 kids magically leave and go to private. I mean Hoban got a kid that already has a dozen D1 offers to play football from West Virginia. Im pretty sure if that kid transferred into Ohio the way he did to Hoban he wouldn't be able to play the whole season at a public school. Thats a problem. Nothing will change.
 
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