CBC 2021. (Central Buckeye Conference)

[ghsknightsfan]

I don't think there'd be any difference in most of their sports as far as being able to compete except for football, which would be a huge improvement over the OHC North. In most sports the OHC North is probably better than the CBC Mad River. In basketball this year Northeastern would have been a legitimate threat to win the Mad River. For the other schools they'd balance the geography and travel trips out a bit compared to North Union and even Greenon previously.

I don't see it happening, but I think it would be advantageous for both schools compared to what they currently have. North Union added to the other juggernauts in the OHC North IMO easily make it the best league not named the MAC for small school football.

i agree that competitively it’s a much better fit. culturally, ehhh not as much. Northeastern is culturally a good fit with probably, Mechanicsburg, Triad, Southeastern, and Madison Plains the most?
i believe a full on area realignment makes the most sense. it’s not BAD as it is. but a couple moved could make it a whole lot better.

 

[nwwarrior09]

i agree that competitively it’s a much better fit. culturally, ehhh not as much. Northeastern is culturally a good fit with probably, Mechanicsburg, Triad, Southeastern, and Madison Plains the most?
i believe a full on area realignment makes the most sense. it’s not BAD as it is. but a couple moved could make it a whole lot better.

They should probably be in the OHC South, but for the moment they're boxed into the North by Catholic Central. One thing that puzzles me about the OHC is that the transition year where they had 10 members saw Central in the North and NE in the South, only to be flipped when the league expanded to 12 the following year.

I don't really see anything as imminent and I think the CBC is probably good with Alder as far as size and North Union with them having no where else to go for the rest of the decade...but compared to previous major realignments, we're probably due for one around here within the next five years as they seem to come in 25-30 year intervals. A lot of dominoes have technically already fallen with the CCC getting blown up for new leagues next year.

 

[ghsknightsfan]

They should probably be in the OHC South, but for the moment they're boxed into the North by Catholic Central. One thing that puzzles me about the OHC is that the transition year where they had 10 members saw Central in the North and NE in the South, only to be flipped when the league expanded to 12 the following year.

I don't really see anything as imminent and I think the CBC is probably good with Alder as far as size and North Union with them having no where else to go for the rest of the decade...but compared to previous major realignments, we're probably due for one around here within the next five years as they seem to come in 25-30 year intervals. A lot of dominoes have technically already fallen with the CCC getting blown up for new leagues next year.

i think a rebirth of the WOAC makes too much sense for all the schools involved at this point.

i really am not sure what could happen either the Clark/Madison/Greene county schools

 

[RollingTrain]

London, West Jeff and Madison-Plains prior to being in the CBC and OHC, respectively, were in the MSL. London and MP for maybe 4-5 years and West Jeff maybe 8-10 years. After London and MP joined their division became like the island of misfit toys culturally between Bexley, Grandview Heights, Columbus Academy, Whitehall and Worthington Christian, and it got to the point where London, MP and WJ struggled to compete in most sports, especially football and basketball. Either the last or second to last year London was in that league they played 7-8 divisional games in basketball against teams ranked in the top-10 in the state.

The travel sucked tremendously as from those schools you had to travel into or close to downtown at rush hour times to navigate your way to your destinations. The distance was closer than CBC/OHC, but the travel times were terrible, especially for junior high and freshman sports.

Jonathan Alder and North Union were in the MOAC. Alder for maybe 4-5 years and North Union for much longer. Both got out during a mass exodus in that league. Alder I think a combination of travel and fit, North Union probably a matter of both size and increased travel due to the league expanding towards Mansfield to stay afloat.

Alder left the MOAC because they were afraid of getting left out of the reshuffling that league was talking about. Trips north through Delaware area traffic also weren't the best and Galion was a haul. All in all, it was the right move, although they probably wish the CBC teams were a little stronger competition. It seems like a lot of schools are in a real downturn right now. These last few years they've won just about everything and a lot of events haven't been close.

 

[nwwarrior09]

Alder left the MOAC because they were afraid of getting left out of the reshuffling that league was talking about. Trips north through Delaware area traffic also weren't the best and Galion was a haul. All in all, it was the right move, although they probably wish the CBC teams were a little stronger competition. It seems like a lot of schools are in a real downturn right now. These last few years they've won just about everything and a lot of events haven't been close.

The majority of the CBC schools are unfortunately dealing with either enrollment decline or at best stagnation. Schools like Shawnee and KR probably peaked in community maturity and across the board competitiveness in the late 2000s and early 2010s.

I could see both bouncing back some, but there's not going to be enough growth around here for a real resurgence and another round of booming growth.

 

[The Dock]

London, West Jeff and Madison-Plains prior to being in the CBC and OHC, respectively, were in the MSL. London and MP for maybe 4-5 years and West Jeff maybe 8-10 years. After London and MP joined their division became like the island of misfit toys culturally between Bexley, Grandview Heights, Columbus Academy, Whitehall and Worthington Christian, and it got to the point where London, MP and WJ struggled to compete in most sports, especially football and basketball. Either the last or second to last year London was in that league they played 7-8 divisional games in basketball against teams ranked in the top-10 in the state.

The travel sucked tremendously as from those schools you had to travel into or close to downtown at rush hour times to navigate your way to your destinations. The distance was closer than CBC/OHC, but the travel times were terrible, especially for junior high and freshman sports.

For those of you smarter than I, which is very few...

London
Where were they before the CBC, and why did they leave their conferences?

Thank you for your time.

I'll go a little further on the London/WJ/Madison-Plains saga of the MSL.

It was a disaster.

At the conclusion of the 2012-13 school year, the Mid-State League Ohio saw four schools leave: Granville, Heath, Lakewood and Newark Catholic. Those four left to form the second incarnation of the Licking County League. To fill the four vacancies, the MSL slotted over West Jefferson (who competed previously in the MSL's Cardinal Division), added independent Worthington Christian (who the MSL long wanted) and pulled London and Madison-Plains from the South Central Ohio League.

Madison-Plains and West Jefferson left the MSL at the conclusion of the 2016-17 school year for the OHC. London left the MSL at the conclusion of the 2018-2019 school year for the CBC. So... MP was in the league for only four years, WJ in the league for ten years (six in the Cardinal, four in the Ohio) and London was in the league for six years.

There were multiple reasons why this experiment failed. As nwwarrior09 notes,

1) travel sucked. It's really hard to get from any point in Madison County to Bexley and Columbus Academy. The hardest drive was undoubtedly getting to Worthington Christian.

2) There's a composition of schools within that part of the MSL (e.g. Bexley, Columbus Academy, Grandview Heights, and Worthington Christian) where football is a 'second fiddle' priority to their athletic department compared to proximity, tradition, common denominators, and prowess in basketball & the "country club" sports. No disrespect to the fine folks at West Jefferson or Madison-Plains, but those two schools... uh... don't really have anything worth more than a bucket of warm piss when it comes to those sports. Not to mention they were far "AF" away from everyone else.

3) related to #1 and #2 -- there were basically no rivalries made, so no spirited competition between the Madison County and Franklin County schools. Except for Grandview and West Jefferson football, which already existed as a carry-over from their days in the Cardinal.

4) Somewhere along the line, football scheduling became prickly. The MSL did that really dumb thing where they forced crossovers with the Ohio (D2-D5) and Cardinal Divisions (D7 schools) for three years in that saga, and it was causing even more problems with the league.

It basically came around to mutual divorce. The Madison County schools were getting exhausted of the experiment, and the Franklin County schools realized there was more potential to be had by adding in Wellington, Columbus School for Girls, Ready and HP (both for football) and any other possible addition. That "other possible addition" ended up being Buckeye Valley. How they landed on BV, I don't really f---ing know.

 

[The Dock]

Yes. I think that league had a geographic divisional split where there was Alder, Fairbanks and North Union with some Delaware county schools. The other side had a bunch of schools in Knox and Morrow counties that broke off and formed the KMAC.

MOAC Red
Buckeye Valley
Fairbanks
Jonathan Alder
North Union
Pleasant
River Valley

**Galion had a brief stint, if I recall correctly.

MOAC Blue
Cardington-Lincoln
Centerburg
Highland
Fredericktown
Northmor
Elgin
Mt. Gilead
Ridgedale




I am pretty sure that is correct. It wasn't always like that.

 

[RollingTrain]

MOAC Red
Buckeye Valley
Fairbanks
Jonathan Alder
North Union
Pleasant
River Valley

**Galion had a brief stint, if I recall correctly.

MOAC Blue
Cardington-Lincoln
Centerburg
Highland
Fredericktown
Northmor
Elgin
Mt. Gilead
Ridgedale




I am pretty sure that is correct. It wasn't always like that.

Galion is still in the MOAC as is Marion Harding - each were there when Alder was in the league. Upper Sandusky was the school with the brief stint in the MOAC. In fact, they left in all sports but football before they even played a league game. They stayed for football for one year because the scheduling was done.

 

[thurdown]

Ben Logan just needs out of the CBC. Their size and culture fits better with the OHC. Greenon athletics took a turn for the better when they joined the OHC, simply because it was a better fit. I don't think there has been a single season in the last 5 that the Raiders wouldn't have finished at least middle of the pack in the OHC North.

I could make the same claim for Indian Lake, but I don't think the fit is quite as obvious for the Lakers.

So BL from CBC to OHC will benefit how?
If you play indisciplined football, rack up 100+ yards in penalties, give up 30+ points a game, your not going to win too many games I don’t care where you’re playing.
It’s been that way for at least the 10 years.
Folks have touched on culture, coaching, demographics, whatever.
The football program just isn’t a priority to the administration or the community.

 

[Weiskittle]

Isn’t the WOAC the old CCC?

 

[Weiskittle]

Riverside
Triad
Burg
WLS (Unless they keep growing)
NE
WG
SE
IL/BL (they suck even when they are bigger than everyone else)

New age WCOC

 

[ghsknightsfan]

Riverside
Triad
Burg
WLS (Unless they keep growing)
NE
WG
SE
IL/BL (they suck even when they are bigger than everyone else)

New age WCOC

i meant WCOC, that’s my bad. here’s my version

Riverside
Triad
Mechanicsburg
Fairbanks
North Union
Ben Logan
Indian Lake
West Liberty Salem

add Urbana and Graham if you please, they fit just fine as well.

 

[WJ-OSU-STEELERS]

The Dock - Appreciate your honest opinion regarding West Jeff & Madison Plains prowess in basketball & the "country club" sports" who "don't really have anything worth more than a bucket of warm piss when it comes to those sports." Boys basketball in the MSL was/is very competitive and WJ struggled but WJ did ok in football, wrestling, baseball, softball and girls basketball. Guess the WJ booster club better start funding kids Country Club membership dues at Heritage, Scioto or Muirfield. I miss the MSL and the football rivalries going back to the old Central Buckeye League with Grandview, Columbus Academy, Bexley and the big games with Liberty Union and Licking Heights but the OHC has been a nice fit for WJ and I think for MP.

Regarding the CBC and football since 2017 when WJ joined the OHC, JA and London would obviously have been the favorites or at least a pick'em but I don't think any other CBC schools would have beaten the OHC North champs in any of those years. North Union and Shawnee would definitely been competitive in some of those years but the rest of the CBC would have been the underdog to WJ, Mechanicsburg and WLS in most of the seasons between 2017 to 2020.

 

[ghsknightsfan]

The Dock - Appreciate your honest opinion regarding West Jeff & Madison Plains prowess in basketball & the "country club" sports" who "don't really have anything worth more than a bucket of warm piss when it comes to those sports." Boys basketball in the MSL was/is very competitive and WJ struggled but WJ did ok in football, wrestling, baseball, softball and girls basketball. Guess the WJ booster club better start funding kids Country Club membership dues at Heritage, Scioto or Muirfield. I miss the MSL and the football rivalries going back to the old Central Buckeye League with Grandview, Columbus Academy, Bexley and the big games with Liberty Union and Licking Heights but the OHC has been a nice fit for WJ and I think for MP.

Regarding the CBC and football since 2017 when WJ joined the OHC, JA and London would obviously have been the favorites or at least a pick'em but I don't think any other CBC schools would have beaten the OHC North champs in any of those years. North Union and Shawnee would definitely been competitive in some of those years but the rest of the CBC would have been the underdog to WJ, Mechanicsburg and WLS in most of the seasons between 2017 to 2020.

don’t get offended about Dock’s post. West Jeff and Madison Plains just aren’t as good in some of the other sports.

West Jeff has been good in baseball and softball as of late. of course, they also have a top notch Football program

Madison Plains has been solid in power lifting and volleyball. Football is the definition of average.

my point is that neither have really an outstanding overall athletic program.

Neither were a good fit in the MSL. it’s okay to pick up some of the MSL schools in non conference games but that’s it. neither are a logistic fit in the league. i enjoyed the West Jeff vs Bishop Ready series a few years back. but rush hour traffic in Columbus is awful and with most sports playing week nights, it’s not ideal. in the OHC, both schools travel more on 70 westbound as well as 68, 72, and even 71 when going to Greeneview.

 

[nwwarrior09]

I read The Dock's post and immediately thought of MP as I'm more familiar with them. He's absolutely correct. There's a reason they were trying to get out of the MSL almost immediately after getting in. They were dead once they got in the water in football and basketball, and they have quite a few struggling non-revenue programs in the OHC like both of their soccer teams that had no business at all competing in a league with Grandview, Bexley, Academy and Worthington Christian. The MSL was a very poorly thought out move on their part that was a dumpster fire from the word go.

 

[Weiskittle]

I

i meant WCOC, that’s my bad. here’s my version

Riverside
Triad
Mechanicsburg
Fairbanks
North Union
Ben Logan
Indian Lake
West Liberty Salem

add Urbana and Graham if you please, they fit just fine as well.

I left out FB because it seems like they are a growing school, biggest problem with Riverside’s new league is that everyone is growing except for them. Gotta think long term! Lol

 

[The Dock]

The Dock - Appreciate your honest opinion regarding West Jeff & Madison Plains prowess in basketball & the "country club" sports" who "don't really have anything worth more than a bucket of warm piss when it comes to those sports." Boys basketball in the MSL was/is very competitive and WJ struggled but WJ did ok in football, wrestling, baseball, softball and girls basketball. Guess the WJ booster club better start funding kids Country Club membership dues at Heritage, Scioto or Muirfield. I miss the MSL and the football rivalries going back to the old Central Buckeye League with Grandview, Columbus Academy, Bexley and the big games with Liberty Union and Licking Heights but the OHC has been a nice fit for WJ and I think for MP.

Hey, I admit it was harsh. Sorry about that. I always enjoyed West Jeff and their strong sports. IMO their time in the Ohio was an ill fit. It wasn’t a comment on class or anything of the like, although I understand how it comes off that way. My point, although brash, was there basically was little in common when it came to similar competitiveness in a given sport— many of the sports WJ was strong at, other schools weren’t; many of the sports WJ was not (is not) strong at, the other schools were. Golf, Soccer, Tennis? Odd couple pairing with a flight of schools who generally among the best in the state. Same with basketball.

 

[ghsknightsfan]

I


I left out FB because it seems like they are a growing school, biggest problem with Riverside’s new league is that everyone is growing except for them. Gotta think long term! Lol

i’ll have to respectfully disagree. Fairbanks hasn’t really shown any growth in the last decade, i think they have consistently had D6 numbers.

but i understand your thinking. they are in an area where it seems like they would grow. but it’s almost like all that growth is heading just south to Plain City. Plain City is just a more attractive place to live. not many new housing developments at all in the Fairbanks district. i’m suprised they aren’t bigger than they are. you would think Marysville is bound to grow but it’s too unsure.

meanwhile, i think there’s no chance Fairbanks grows past a D5 in the next 2 decades.

 

[ghsknightsfan]

Great info.
Does anyone believe that NU or JA would jump ship to a more central Ohio conference if some restructuring goes on over there?

JA- i could absolutely see it. what matters is finding the right fit.

NU- no way. i don’t see a good conference forming. also, i think sticking them with Fairbanks, the Logan county schools, and the Champaign county schools is a good fit for them competitively and geographically.

 

[nwwarrior09]

I'd be surprised if Alder is around for much more than another 10 years. Eventually they will have some growth, and it won't take a whole lot of it for them to become unbearably dominant in everything with most of the other schools probably looking at declining even more in enrollment over the next decade.

I think the question for them is how big do they actually get over the next 10-15 years? That will determine what their next move eventually is. The slower their growth is, the better the stability of the league will be.

 

[WJ-OSU-STEELERS]

JA will be the class of the CBC until they can find a Central Ohio league affiliation. Currently JA is simply too small and does not offer enough sports to be included into the smallest division of the OCC. JA's enrollment #'s as of 2019 were 270 boys/238 girls (grades 9-11). Plain City is growing, it was:
* 2,278 in 1990
* 2,832 in 2000
* 4,225 in 2010
* 4,586 in 2019 (estimate)

The people moving the area are wanting more land/space and cheaper taxes than the Dublin schools. It's only going to grow, I believe last year there was another subdivision approved. Will JA grow to complete with the Dublin's, Hillard's, Marysville's, Olentangy's - no but I could see them competing with the Canal Winchester and Big Walnut of the OCC and perhaps Licking Heights & Teays Valley who are in a similar situation - getting too big for their current conference but not yet big enough for the OCC.

 

[RollingTrain]

JA will be the class of the CBC until they can find a Central Ohio league affiliation. Currently JA is simply too small and does not offer enough sports to be included into the smallest division of the OCC. JA's enrollment #'s as of 2019 were 270 boys/238 girls (grades 9-11). Plain City is growing, it was:
* 2,278 in 1990
* 2,832 in 2000
* 4,225 in 2010
* 4,586 in 2019 (estimate)

The people moving the area are wanting more land/space and cheaper taxes than the Dublin schools. It's only going to grow, I believe last year there was another subdivision approved. Will JA grow to complete with the Dublin's, Hillard's, Marysville's, Olentangy's - no but I could see them competing with the Canal Winchester and Big Walnut of the OCC and perhaps Licking Heights & Teays Valley who are in a similar situation - getting too big for their current conference but not yet big enough for the OCC.

Until Plain City gets the water and sewer situation figured out, and it’s a massive one, the growth is on hold. This is something that might not get solved for quite some time. It’s lined up and ready to go, but there’s def been a huge setback.

But no, there is absolutely no home for them outside the CBC right now. Really, both them and London are just a few boys from Div. IV in football.

 

[ghsknightsfan]

From my somewhat newbie view of the conference, I concur with JA. Would you be surprised in 2030 if JA is still a part of the CBC?

I guess I would have to look at NU closer, but yea their options might be much more limited and may be 'stuck' but probably a good conference, competitively, for them.

i think i would be suprised. the JA/CBC marriage made sense at the time for both schools. it was a good fit. but it was a 10-15 year type marriage. JA is already top dog in the CBC. i don’t see that changing. you best bet that as soon as something closer to columbus comes around, they will make the jump. and they may take London with them. they’re a good fit with the D2/3 schools around Columbus.

 

[RollingTrain]

i think i would be suprised. the JA/CBC marriage made sense at the time for both schools. it was a good fit. but it was a 10-15 year type marriage. JA is already top dog in the CBC. i don’t see that changing. you best bet that as soon as something closer to columbus comes around, they will make the jump. and they may take London with them. they’re a good fit with the D2/3 schools around Columbus.

that’s the problem - there’s some DII/DIII schools in Central Ohio but not a league. Sure, they fit great with Bloom-Carroll, Teays Valley, Hamilton Twp, etc (and there’s no chance of getting those schools together with DeSales, Watterson and Hartley) but the drive to those places in Columbus traffic isn’t good. And then you have youth sports to think about. Unless JA and London are forced out, I don’t see anything happening anytime soon.

 

[nwwarrior09]

It could happen quickly, but Alder has a long way to go in terms of size to fit better with some of the more Columbus area schools. They were barely D3 this year in football. IMO they need to grow nearly a full division and get to the D2/D3 cutoff line for football and be a large D2 in everything else.

Second problem: geography. Think about what schools theoretically fit well with Alder down the road and then think about the travel. I'm very familiar with the Madison county MSL travel problems and I can foresee some horrible travel times in rush hour for Alder to Hamilton Township and Teays Valley. As a division within a league, the rest of the schools would probably need to be East/Southeast Columbus, I.e. Canal Winchester. I wouldn't be in any rush to jump into that and it would be a huge pain for freshman, junior high and youth sports. It's much easier to travel westward for the CBC.

 

[ghsknightsfan]

that’s the problem - there’s some DII/DIII schools in Central Ohio but not a league. Sure, they fit great with Bloom-Carroll, Teays Valley, Hamilton Twp, etc (and there’s no chance of getting those schools together with DeSales, Watterson and Hartley) but the drive to those places in Columbus traffic isn’t good. And then you have youth sports to think about. Unless JA and London are forced out, I don’t see anything happening anytime soon.

but by 2030 i think it’s very possible.

i see JA growing into a Canal Winchester type of school and community

 

[ghsknightsfan]

It could happen quickly, but Alder has a long way to go in terms of size to fit better with some of the more Columbus area schools. They were barely D3 this year in football. IMO they need to grow nearly a full division and get to the D2/D3 cutoff line for football and be a large D2 in everything else.

Second problem: geography. Think about what schools theoretically fit well with Alder down the road and then think about the travel. I'm very familiar with the Madison county MSL travel problems and I can foresee some horrible travel times in rush hour for Alder to Hamilton Township and Teays Valley. As a division within a league, the rest of the schools would probably need to be East/Southeast Columbus. I wouldn't be in any rush to jump into that. It's much easier to travel westward for the CBC.

you’re absolutely right. i think it would have to be a very good scenario for them to jump. the travel probably doesn’t get better in Columbus but would they be willing to sacrifice travel for better competition? in the right situation, i think yes.

 

[nwwarrior09]

It will definitely be an interesting situation to watch develop down the road. Eventually, and probably already to some degree, there are going to be a handful or so of far-flung areas on the outskirts of Columbus that lack OCC size but have well outgrown the Londons, Circlevilles, Bloom-Carrolls, etc.

Alder, Teays Valley, Hamilton Township, Canal Winchester, Licking Heights and Big Walnut are all probably looking at a future of either being a huge fish in a small pond or a tiny fish in a huge lake. Geographically that hodge podge is laughable as a league. From Alder, Hamilton Twp is the only one of those schools that there's any chance of getting to within 45 minutes at weekday travel times. The others are easily an hour or longer.

London would be nuts to ever leave the CBC unless kicked out or left out of some new league formation by the same schools.

 

[ghsknightsfan]

It will definitely be an interesting situation to watch develop down the road. Eventually, and probably already to some degree, there are going to be a handful or so of far-flung areas on the outskirts of Columbus that lack OCC size but have well outgrown the Londons, Circlevilles, Bloom-Carrolls, etc.

Alder, Teays Valley, Hamilton Township, Canal Winchester, Licking Heights and Big Walnut are all probably looking at a future of either being a huge fish in a small pond or a tiny fish in a huge lake. Geographically that hodge podge is laughable as a league. From Alder, Hamilton Twp is the only one of those schools that there's any chance of getting to within 45 minutes at weekday travel times. The others are easily an hour or longer.

London would be nuts to ever leave the CBC unless kicked out or left out of some new league formation by the same schools.

only way I see London leaving on their own is something happening south/southeast of Columbus. right now, London and Alder have it almost as good as it gets travel wise.

 

[The Dock]

It will definitely be an interesting situation to watch develop down the road. Eventually, and probably already to some degree, there are going to be a handful or so of far-flung areas on the outskirts of Columbus that lack OCC size but have well outgrown the Londons, Circlevilles, Bloom-Carrolls, etc.

Alder, Teays Valley, Hamilton Township, Canal Winchester, Licking Heights and Big Walnut are all probably looking at a future of either being a huge fish in a small pond or a tiny fish in a huge lake. Geographically that hodge podge is laughable as a league. From Alder, Hamilton Twp is the only one of those schools that there's any chance of getting to within 45 minutes at weekday travel times. The others are easily an hour or longer.

[Logan High School has entered the chat.]