CBC 2021. (Central Buckeye Conference)
- Thread starter thavoice
- Start date
ghsknightsfan
Well-known member
JA- i could absolutely see it. what matters is finding the right fit.
NU- no way. i don’t see a good conference forming. also, i think sticking them with Fairbanks, the Logan county schools, and the Champaign county schools is a good fit for them competitively and geographically.
thavoice
Well-known member
From my somewhat newbie view of the conference, I concur with JA. Would you be surprised in 2030 if JA is still a part of the CBC?
I guess I would have to look at NU closer, but yea their options might be much more limited and may be 'stuck' but probably a good conference, competitively, for them.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
I'd be surprised if Alder is around for much more than another 10 years. Eventually they will have some growth, and it won't take a whole lot of it for them to become unbearably dominant in everything with most of the other schools probably looking at declining even more in enrollment over the next decade.
I think the question for them is how big do they actually get over the next 10-15 years? That will determine what their next move eventually is. The slower their growth is, the better the stability of the league will be.
I think the question for them is how big do they actually get over the next 10-15 years? That will determine what their next move eventually is. The slower their growth is, the better the stability of the league will be.
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Active member
JA will be the class of the CBC until they can find a Central Ohio league affiliation. Currently JA is simply too small and does not offer enough sports to be included into the smallest division of the OCC. JA's enrollment #'s as of 2019 were 270 boys/238 girls (grades 9-11). Plain City is growing, it was:
* 2,278 in 1990
* 2,832 in 2000
* 4,225 in 2010
* 4,586 in 2019 (estimate)
The people moving the area are wanting more land/space and cheaper taxes than the Dublin schools. It's only going to grow, I believe last year there was another subdivision approved. Will JA grow to complete with the Dublin's, Hillard's, Marysville's, Olentangy's - no but I could see them competing with the Canal Winchester and Big Walnut of the OCC and perhaps Licking Heights & Teays Valley who are in a similar situation - getting too big for their current conference but not yet big enough for the OCC.
* 2,278 in 1990
* 2,832 in 2000
* 4,225 in 2010
* 4,586 in 2019 (estimate)
The people moving the area are wanting more land/space and cheaper taxes than the Dublin schools. It's only going to grow, I believe last year there was another subdivision approved. Will JA grow to complete with the Dublin's, Hillard's, Marysville's, Olentangy's - no but I could see them competing with the Canal Winchester and Big Walnut of the OCC and perhaps Licking Heights & Teays Valley who are in a similar situation - getting too big for their current conference but not yet big enough for the OCC.
RollingTrain
Well-known member
Until Plain City gets the water and sewer situation figured out, and it’s a massive one, the growth is on hold. This is something that might not get solved for quite some time. It’s lined up and ready to go, but there’s def been a huge setback.
But no, there is absolutely no home for them outside the CBC right now. Really, both them and London are just a few boys from Div. IV in football.
ghsknightsfan
Well-known member
i think i would be suprised. the JA/CBC marriage made sense at the time for both schools. it was a good fit. but it was a 10-15 year type marriage. JA is already top dog in the CBC. i don’t see that changing. you best bet that as soon as something closer to columbus comes around, they will make the jump. and they may take London with them. they’re a good fit with the D2/3 schools around Columbus.
RollingTrain
Well-known member
that’s the problem - there’s some DII/DIII schools in Central Ohio but not a league. Sure, they fit great with Bloom-Carroll, Teays Valley, Hamilton Twp, etc (and there’s no chance of getting those schools together with DeSales, Watterson and Hartley) but the drive to those places in Columbus traffic isn’t good. And then you have youth sports to think about. Unless JA and London are forced out, I don’t see anything happening anytime soon.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
It could happen quickly, but Alder has a long way to go in terms of size to fit better with some of the more Columbus area schools. They were barely D3 this year in football. IMO they need to grow nearly a full division and get to the D2/D3 cutoff line for football and be a large D2 in everything else.
Second problem: geography. Think about what schools theoretically fit well with Alder down the road and then think about the travel. I'm very familiar with the Madison county MSL travel problems and I can foresee some horrible travel times in rush hour for Alder to Hamilton Township and Teays Valley. As a division within a league, the rest of the schools would probably need to be East/Southeast Columbus, I.e. Canal Winchester. I wouldn't be in any rush to jump into that and it would be a huge pain for freshman, junior high and youth sports. It's much easier to travel westward for the CBC.
Second problem: geography. Think about what schools theoretically fit well with Alder down the road and then think about the travel. I'm very familiar with the Madison county MSL travel problems and I can foresee some horrible travel times in rush hour for Alder to Hamilton Township and Teays Valley. As a division within a league, the rest of the schools would probably need to be East/Southeast Columbus, I.e. Canal Winchester. I wouldn't be in any rush to jump into that and it would be a huge pain for freshman, junior high and youth sports. It's much easier to travel westward for the CBC.
ghsknightsfan
Well-known member
but by 2030 i think it’s very possible.
i see JA growing into a Canal Winchester type of school and community
ghsknightsfan
Well-known member
you’re absolutely right. i think it would have to be a very good scenario for them to jump. the travel probably doesn’t get better in Columbus but would they be willing to sacrifice travel for better competition? in the right situation, i think yes.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
It will definitely be an interesting situation to watch develop down the road. Eventually, and probably already to some degree, there are going to be a handful or so of far-flung areas on the outskirts of Columbus that lack OCC size but have well outgrown the Londons, Circlevilles, Bloom-Carrolls, etc.
Alder, Teays Valley, Hamilton Township, Canal Winchester, Licking Heights and Big Walnut are all probably looking at a future of either being a huge fish in a small pond or a tiny fish in a huge lake. Geographically that hodge podge is laughable as a league. From Alder, Hamilton Twp is the only one of those schools that there's any chance of getting to within 45 minutes at weekday travel times. The others are easily an hour or longer.
London would be nuts to ever leave the CBC unless kicked out or left out of some new league formation by the same schools.
Alder, Teays Valley, Hamilton Township, Canal Winchester, Licking Heights and Big Walnut are all probably looking at a future of either being a huge fish in a small pond or a tiny fish in a huge lake. Geographically that hodge podge is laughable as a league. From Alder, Hamilton Twp is the only one of those schools that there's any chance of getting to within 45 minutes at weekday travel times. The others are easily an hour or longer.
London would be nuts to ever leave the CBC unless kicked out or left out of some new league formation by the same schools.
ghsknightsfan
Well-known member
only way I see London leaving on their own is something happening south/southeast of Columbus. right now, London and Alder have it almost as good as it gets travel wise.
The Dock
Well-known member
[Logan High School has entered the chat.]
The Dock
Well-known member
Alder would be an imperfect fit in any currently-existing Central District conference. Metro Columbus conference alignments make as much sense the mid-2000's color-coded Homeland Security Advisory System.
Hamilton and Teays could, in theory, form a "Southern Six" conference by convincing Southwestern City Schools to withdraw from the OCC. Those schools could be a potential match for Alder and an 8th, although the travel from points west into that part of Columbus has already been mentioned as being problematic.
Really, what I see, as a possible avenue is if indeed Circleville and Logan Elm try to go south to the Frontier Athletic Conference (FAC) or Scioto Valley Conference (SVC.) From there, the MSL would be tasked with having to do some sort of realignment. That might be enough a push to either realign based on enrollment (was voted down before) or just make four divisions of six. How and what, I'm not too certain.
And how it would even shape future league prospects for Alder, unsure.
Hamilton and Teays could, in theory, form a "Southern Six" conference by convincing Southwestern City Schools to withdraw from the OCC. Those schools could be a potential match for Alder and an 8th, although the travel from points west into that part of Columbus has already been mentioned as being problematic.
Really, what I see, as a possible avenue is if indeed Circleville and Logan Elm try to go south to the Frontier Athletic Conference (FAC) or Scioto Valley Conference (SVC.) From there, the MSL would be tasked with having to do some sort of realignment. That might be enough a push to either realign based on enrollment (was voted down before) or just make four divisions of six. How and what, I'm not too certain.
And how it would even shape future league prospects for Alder, unsure.
Captain Obvious
New member
It almost feels like Plain City is trying to preserve its small town feel by not bending over backwards for developers. It’s not like the town hasn’t been situated on the edge of suburbia or just outside the outer belt for decades. I know many are often confused where the Alder northern boundaries are, often assuming much of the growth along 33 is JA, when it’s actually Dublin City. At this time, I don’t see a better fit for Alder without a tad more travel. As some tweener districts have learned, going Coffman-Davidson-Marysville poses a different challenge than Tecumseh-Shawnee-Urbana. The desire of smaller schools to “play up” is why the GWOC didn’t survive as a large conference. Same can be said for the constant shuffling of the OCC. With that said, many of Alder’s programs at their current level would compete just fine with most OCC schools. Let’s hope the current structure lasts for at least a few more years, and the new members continue to push existing members to get better.
I remember hearimg a few years ago some of the northern schools in the OCC weren't happy, but had no other plan.
I could see JA fitting in that mix if they ever broke off and went for it. Delaware, Marysville, Big Walnut, JA. Grab Marion (not great competitively but a fit in size and location.) And then we run into the problem. Who the hell else is there? Buckeye Valley willing to be the small fish and get their heads beaten in to get away from Columbus travel? Mount Vernon, even though it's an hour and a half on a good day from Plain City?
And that's the issue. Short of getting to OCC size and/or dealing with the travel, there's just nothing there. Even that SW league, if Plain City was located where London is they'd fit perfect. Of course then they wouldn't be growing like they are. That's a drive on a good day to Grove City or Teays Valley.
I could see JA fitting in that mix if they ever broke off and went for it. Delaware, Marysville, Big Walnut, JA. Grab Marion (not great competitively but a fit in size and location.) And then we run into the problem. Who the hell else is there? Buckeye Valley willing to be the small fish and get their heads beaten in to get away from Columbus travel? Mount Vernon, even though it's an hour and a half on a good day from Plain City?
And that's the issue. Short of getting to OCC size and/or dealing with the travel, there's just nothing there. Even that SW league, if Plain City was located where London is they'd fit perfect. Of course then they wouldn't be growing like they are. That's a drive on a good day to Grove City or Teays Valley.
The Dock
Well-known member
Buckeye Valley has never qualified into OHSAA football playoffs, and possibly never will even in the MSL-Bizarre division. May as well make rivalries and better travel! They already play Delaware every year, so it wouldn’t be too much a stretch I think for them to be interested in the hypothetical.
WJ-OSU-STEELERS
Active member
I think London is in a good spot in the CBC, they were in the league back in the 1970's, size wise they are playing like schools and they have a natural rival in JA. For JA, it's just a matter of time before they move to a new league for a few reasons.
1st - It appears JA will only continue to grow - the sewage system will be a hinderance especially with Plain City being in the Big Darby Watershed. However, Dublin is only going to continue to push out that way. Columbus growth just keeps moving on.
2nd - As mentioned the schools of Canal Winchester, Hamilton Township, Teays Valley, Big Walnut, Licking Heights, they are all similar - bedroom communities of Columbus. The people in these towns work/socialize in Columbus. Regarding rush hour traffic, since COVID traffic is no where near as bad. Nationwide, Cardinal Health, Chase, Ohio Govt jobs downtown - many of these jobs will not go back to working at the office 5 days a week. It will be a blend of work from home & some going into the office. Life has changed. The CBC is primarily a farming/small town league, JA definitely has it's fair share of country boys but it's demographics has been changing over the last 20+ years.
3rd - JA is a Central District school & the media coverage from The Dispatch & tv coverage. It doesn’t matter but it kinda does matters. I know the Dispatch does a terrible job of covering Friday night football but it’s still nice for the kids to be recognized for post season awards. This is more likely if you are playing vs central district schools. Also, a 9-0 JA vs say a 9-0 Bellfontain or Shawnee isn’t getting on NBC 4 Football Friday night. If it’s 9-0 JA vs a 8-1 Canal Winchester it is one of the bigger games in central Ohio, it may even get the chopper to swing by for the game
4th - In 4 years JA is 24-3, in 2 years London is 10-3 with 2 of the losses coming from JA. JA is also very good it baseball & having a great season basketball this year. I don’t think JA will fall back to the CBC pack, someone In the CBC will have to get better to take the football league title from them. It could ruffle some feathers if the likes of JA with their new SUV’s, living in their newly built homes and newly built schools/Facilities continue to win league titles.
1st - It appears JA will only continue to grow - the sewage system will be a hinderance especially with Plain City being in the Big Darby Watershed. However, Dublin is only going to continue to push out that way. Columbus growth just keeps moving on.
2nd - As mentioned the schools of Canal Winchester, Hamilton Township, Teays Valley, Big Walnut, Licking Heights, they are all similar - bedroom communities of Columbus. The people in these towns work/socialize in Columbus. Regarding rush hour traffic, since COVID traffic is no where near as bad. Nationwide, Cardinal Health, Chase, Ohio Govt jobs downtown - many of these jobs will not go back to working at the office 5 days a week. It will be a blend of work from home & some going into the office. Life has changed. The CBC is primarily a farming/small town league, JA definitely has it's fair share of country boys but it's demographics has been changing over the last 20+ years.
3rd - JA is a Central District school & the media coverage from The Dispatch & tv coverage. It doesn’t matter but it kinda does matters. I know the Dispatch does a terrible job of covering Friday night football but it’s still nice for the kids to be recognized for post season awards. This is more likely if you are playing vs central district schools. Also, a 9-0 JA vs say a 9-0 Bellfontain or Shawnee isn’t getting on NBC 4 Football Friday night. If it’s 9-0 JA vs a 8-1 Canal Winchester it is one of the bigger games in central Ohio, it may even get the chopper to swing by for the game
4th - In 4 years JA is 24-3, in 2 years London is 10-3 with 2 of the losses coming from JA. JA is also very good it baseball & having a great season basketball this year. I don’t think JA will fall back to the CBC pack, someone In the CBC will have to get better to take the football league title from them. It could ruffle some feathers if the likes of JA with their new SUV’s, living in their newly built homes and newly built schools/Facilities continue to win league titles.
ghsknightsfan
Well-known member
Shawnee is shrinking
Kenton Ridge is shrinking
Bellefontaine certainly isn’t growing
Tecumseh’s enrollment is inflated, but i can assure you that people aren’t moving to New Carlisle unless it is to work in the nurseries
London.. growing a little
the CBC and OHC will realign soon. i think we see leagues of closer proximity with big/small divisions. les mandatory crossovers possible.
i would love to see the Clark County schools get back together while adding in the the Madison County schools, and possible the Greene County schools (nowhere else for them to go)
Clark/Greene/Madison Schools from biggest to smallest:
D2- Tecumseh
D3- Alder
D3- London
D4- Northwestern
D4- Kenton Ridge
D5- Shawnee
D5- Greenon
D5- Madison Plains
D6- Greeneview
D6- West Jefferson
D6- Northeastern
D7- Southeastern
D7- Cedarville
D7- Catholic Central
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nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Great post. Excellent point about possible hybrid and remote work scenarios at major employers lightening the traffic some downtown, but over the next 10-20 years I can see it still sucking badly as Columbus continues to grow. Updating infrastructure capacity tends to lag behind growth.
Media coverage I certainly understand. In fact, I've been told that was the main driver for one of the other county schools briefly venturing into the MSL. Unfortunately for them, getting whooped constantly by teams inside the beltway doesn't draw the eye of the Dispatch and 10TV. Alder has a very strong athletic program, and winning tends to translate into coverage. In that regard, it makes sense for them. London the last few years is as good as they've been in a long time in football. Under certain conditions I could see them falling back into the pack in the CBC. The fit here in terms of size, distance and demographics makes a lot more sense for them than trudging back into the beltway.
This league has been there and done that already with Tippecanoe. I imagine a show of hands would indicate that as Tipp started to grow some and changed somewhat demographically into more of a bedroom community of Dayton, it's probably not their increased winning that bothered most people from other schools...but the perception of a smugness or arrogance coming from them as being better or superior to everyone else.
thavoice
Well-known member
NWO is blessed to have WOSN, Western Ohio Sports Network. It was born out of the local religious station from Lima, TV44, covering games over the years.
I guess we have became spoiled with such coverage and it does seem like there is a void in coverage for much of the CBC>
RollingTrain
Well-known member
I don’t think you understand just how big an issue this water and sewer thing is. And on top of it all there’s an environmental issue with the Darby. The time frame to get it all taken care and finish could be a long, long time.
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nwwarrior09
Well-known member
High school sports coverage in the Springfield News-Sun used to be eons better 15-20 years ago. In recent years, that paper is mostly the Dayton Daily News with the News-Sun name on it and local coverage has gone down the toilet for the CBC, OHC, etc. You can't get anything somewhat regularly anymore without being in the GWOC unless you're really good. The DDN and WHIO don't seem to like venturing beyond the 675 corridor.
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The Dock
Well-known member
Hehe -- got that right. Recent construction on 270 on the west side, 71 southwest of Downtown Columbus has been painful. Starting to border on "Big Dig" levels of delays, frustration and what not. Can only imagine what MORPC has in the books down the road...
One point I do want to make on Columbus media, the advantages and whatnot: I think we're in an age where high school sports coverage and media is incredibly digitized and mobilized. Good thing? Possibly. But consider this: the Dispatch basically does not cover high school sports anymore. Steve Blackledge, praise be to him, no longer works there. Recent changes to the Dispatch (including ownership changes, earlier deadlines and the fact the paper isn't printed in Columbus anymore) have basically rendered that paper moot for coverage beyond publishing the AP polls and local honors that come down the wire. ThisWeek Newspapers has a couple good sportswriters, but that whole publication is really disjointed in its coverage.
I say this not to undermine either of your two fine observations. My thinking, though, is that the coverage Alder (or any Madison County) school would want either has to come from grassroots local media with Twitter accounts (in the absence of a local paper) or enough participation with schools close enough to Columbus. Social media as a tool for high school sports coverage has blossomed in Columbus in the past five years (see: 270Hoops -- which now has its own Friday Night Feature on WCMH/NBC4 in Columbus.) I would imagine station management at WCMH or WBNS has begun to see the writing on the wall when it comes to their programming for sports, and how they can seize increased viewership by paying more mind and coverage to a section of sports (high school) where the tradition medium for coverage (print newspaper) has evaporated.
If I'm correct-- while the Clark/Champaign/Logan County corridor, as well as Madison County and Union County, are all in the Columbus TV markets they basically get paid no attention whatsoever by the TV stations when it comes to local sports. Shame!
And now it's expanded with Channel 26 in Defiance so they now cover games from Bryan clear down to Marion Local.
Speaking of Central District and media coverage/awards. I heard the number 1 reason Buckeye Valley went MSL over MOAC was because of that. They were worried with a more Mansfield centric league, they'd have a harder time standing out for all district awards and tournament seeding.
thavoice
Well-known member
WOSN has expanded?
That is awesome! Truly spoiled! And the quality was good. IL was on vs I think NW this fall and man the announcer was absolutely atrocious and talked out his arse all game. When the kids watched the replay they were like 'wtf is this guy talking about?
The Dock
Well-known member
Which is ironic AF because there’s only one team in their league (Bexley) who competes in the same district tournament and size classification as them (Central District, D2.) Granted, there are sports like basketball where the MSL prowess and attention is enough to help seeding even in the absence of conference buddies.
ghsknightsfan
Well-known member
Springfield News Sun does a decent job during football season covering the CBC/OHC. weekly previews and recaps on games.
to touch on WHIO not wanting to go outside the 675 corridor- you’re correct. but, i will add that we have seen much more games as of recent become the “Game of the Week” as well as get attention. the brand of football in this region is solid- we always have plenty of late season games that matter in terms of conference standings and playoff seedlings.
to touch on WHIO not wanting to go outside the 675 corridor- you’re correct. but, i will add that we have seen much more games as of recent become the “Game of the Week” as well as get attention. the brand of football in this region is solid- we always have plenty of late season games that matter in terms of conference standings and playoff seedlings.
thavoice
Well-known member
WHIO used to make their way all the way up to Mercer and Auglaize County. They would be a must see for the highlights back in the day in our area. WHen that WOSN/TV44 really got big, and started their show soon after 10pm no one would watch them anymore because if they showed up they would show just 1-2 plays.
I think local media should EMBRACE the local goings on and HS sports. People are not going to get that content much else so why not?