Canton McKinley Bulldogs

I wish someone could explain the phenomenon where since the merger, McKinley athletics has turned into Timken athletics.
Hmmm, I don't recall Timken football ever beating 3 Federal League teams by more than 30 points (running clock), winning the Federal League and winning a playoff game. The Bulldogs did all of that last year. McKinley wants more than a Federal League title and wants to beat Massillon, but the narrative that you and many others put out there is ridiculous. If McKinley is in such disarray, where does that leave the teams the Bulldogs running clocked last year (GlenOak, Hoover, Green)? Or Jackson, who McKinley has defeated 16 times in a row, including a running clock in a playoff win in 2021. In basketball, McKinley had defeated Jackson 6 consecutive times before a narrow loss earlier this season. McKinley has advanced to the Regionals in basketball twice since the merger, most recently in 2020. When did Timken do that? I wish someone could explain the phenomenon of people throwing out ridiculous b.s. narratives that aren't remotely based on reality.
 
2013

It is.
Regarding the 2013 run for the Trojans, thank you for answering my question. I didn't know they ever made it that far. McK has since made it to that point twice as many times as Timken's one trip, so this comparison still seems like quite a reach by you. It's interesting that you answered that question but didn't answer when Timken football defeated 3 Fed teams by 30 or more points in a season, won a league title, or won a playoff game, all of which McK did last season.

And again, if McK is indeed in disaray, what does that say about the 3 teams McK running-clocked last year (GlenOak, Hoover, Green)? What does it say about Jackson, which McK has defeated 16 times in a row and beat with a running clock in the 2021 playoffs?

You answered my one question. I'd really appreciate it if you could fill me in on the rest, to give me a better understanding of this phenomenon.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Regarding the 2013 run for the Trojans, thank you for answering my question. I didn't know they ever made it that far. McK has since made it to that point twice as many times as Timken's one trip, so this comparison still seems like quite a reach by you. It's interesting that you answered that question but didn't answer when Timken football defeated 3 Fed teams by 30 or more points in a season, won a league title, or won a playoff game, all of which McK did last season.

And again, if McK is indeed in disaray, what does that say about the 3 teams McK running-clocked last year (GlenOak, Hoover, Green)? What does it say about Jackson, which McK has defeated 16 times in a row and beat with a running clock in the 2021 playoffs?

You answered my one question. I'd really appreciate it if you could fill me in on the rest, to give me a better understanding of this phenomenon.

Thanks in advance.
McKinley has done better than Timken since the merger. You got me there. What I will tell you is that since the merger, McKinley is 1-7 against Massillon. They get about 3K fans a game, which is why no one cares when they only have 4 home games. The Federal League has been mediocre outside of Perry, and now that Wakefield is gone, Perry ain't great either. Jackson has never been very good at football, so it says McKinley is better than a still-middling Jackson program. McK is 7-8 in the playoffs, and hasn't come close to winning the region since 2009, and hasn't won the region since 2006. So if the FLC is all you're looking for, then McKinley will make you very happy for a few more years. For some, beating Massillon and advancing in the playoffs has been the measuring stick.

From your perspective, McKinley is a pretty good FL team. For others, McK is only a pretty good Federal League team. And that's sad.
And to bring this back to basketball, McKinley is in the longest state tournament drought in school history. But hey, 2nd or 3rd place in the fed may still be within reach.
 
McKinley has done better than Timken since the merger. You got me there. What I will tell you is that since the merger, McKinley is 1-7 against Massillon. They get about 3K fans a game, which is why no one cares when they only have 4 home games. The Federal League has been mediocre outside of Perry, and now that Wakefield is gone, Perry ain't great either. Jackson has never been very good at football, so it says McKinley is better than a still-middling Jackson program. McK is 7-8 in the playoffs, and hasn't come close to winning the region since 2009, and hasn't won the region since 2006. So if the FLC is all you're looking for, then McKinley will make you very happy for a few more years. For some, beating Massillon and advancing in the playoffs has been the measuring stick.

From your perspective, McKinley is a pretty good FL team. For others, McK is only a pretty good Federal League team. And that's sad.
And to bring this back to basketball, McKinley is in the longest state tournament drought in school history. But hey, 2nd or 3rd place in the fed may still be within reach.
I hate losing to Massillon and not being a state power, but you said there was a phenomenon of McK athletics being at the level of Timken athletics since the merger -- that is what I was refuting and I appreciate you conceding that is/was utter nonsense.

Winning a league title in a VERY mediocre league, whooping several of those teams by more than 4 TDs and winning a playoff game is hardly stellar or elite, but it's a helluva long way from your supposed phenomenon.

And as far as basketball, yes, when you have 28 Final Four appearances, the bar is very high. Again, though, a long drought from Final Four is hardly awful. It's just not elite. Do I want McK to be elite? Absolutely. But does not being elite make a program awful?

Also, I find it it odd that you and so many others talk/write often of McKinley's supposed demise but don't bash the teams McKinley regularly and routinely beat. My point is if McK is in such disarray as you stated, isn't it alarming they still beat teams by 4 TDs? Why don't you and others bash those teams? That seems odd to me. Like, it's ok because they haven't had the long and storied tradition of success of McKinley? There is just quite a double standard.

And, outside of Massillon, who regularly draws crowds of more than a few k these days? Locally and even powers like Mentor and St. ED'S, that is about what you'll get. I've seen it everywhere That's the new norm. Just a different time, man. That's across the board.

But, yes, thank you for admitting the supposed phenomenon of McKinley being at the level of Timken since the merger is wholly inaccurate and was an asinine, false statement. I appreciate it.
 
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Winning a league title in a VERY mediocre league, whooping several of those teams by more than 4 TDs and winning a playoff game is hardly stellar or elite, but it's a helluva long way from your supposed phenomenon.
I'm glad I could clarify my obvious hyperbole even more for you.
And as far as basketball, yes, when you have 28 Final Four appearances, the bar is very high. Again, though, a long drought from Final Four is hardly awful. It's just not elite. Do I want McK to be elite? Absolutely. But does not being elite make a program awful?
Not awful. But nothing special. McKinley, the City of Canton, and Stark Athletics loses A LOT of it's uniqueness and pride when McKinley is nothing but middling to fair. To ME, a long drought from the final four isn't awful. But not even being in the conversation is.
And, outside of Massillon, who regularly draws of crowds of more than a few k these days? Locally and even powers like Mentor amd St. ED'S, that is about what you'll get. I've seen it everywhere That's the new norm. Just a different time, man. That's across the board.
I disagree on your contention that no one else draws better. McKinley crowds are AWFUL for a Fed Team - for Tuslaw - for any random team in Ohio. So you're right, McKinley isn't special like Massillon anymore. And while the 7 or 8 of you who sit around patting each other on the back at booster meetings pretending there isn't a problem because the coaches and district folks have convinced you this mediocrity is unavoidable, and its just "the new norm" - as opposed to taking a hard look at the SOLVABLE problems that have caused this erosion, then yes, you're going to get a not-elite, run of the mill Fed team that's somewhat better than Timken going forward.
 
I'm glad I could clarify my obvious hyperbole even more for you.

Not awful. But nothing special. McKinley, the City of Canton, and Stark Athletics loses A LOT of it's uniqueness and pride when McKinley is nothing but middling to fair. To ME, a long drought from the final four isn't awful. But not even being in the conversation is.

I disagree on your contention that no one else draws better. McKinley crowds are AWFUL for a Fed Team - for Tuslaw - for any random team in Ohio. So you're right, McKinley isn't special like Massillon anymore. And while the 7 or 8 of you who sit around patting each other on the back at booster meetings pretending there isn't a problem because the coaches and district folks have convinced you this mediocrity is unavoidable, and its just "the new norm" - as opposed to taking a hard look at the SOLVABLE problems that have caused this erosion, then yes, you're going to get a not-elite, run of the mill Fed team that's somewhat better than Timken going forward.
Ok, you at least seem to care somewhat, and I appreciate that. I would genuinely like to discuss the problems you deem solvable and hear your suggestions on what can be done to solve them. And I don't mean argue and bicker like I was here; I'll just listen and hear what you have to say, if you would be willing to discuss this. I will send you a message. Yes, I am a booster/supporter/fan, but, no, I don't pretend there are not problems. At all. Not even close. None of the other people I know who care about McK think that, either. We just still support McK. I do contend that crowds everywhere are not the same as 10-20-30 years ago -- and that a crowd of more than 5 K is rare -- but yes, the drop-off is certainly more noticeable at McK. There is a lot that goes into that, and I'm not sure that even McKinley doing everything right would change it all that much. I would like to think that could change, but for a LOT of reasons, I have doubts. But, seriously, I'd like to hear any suggestions you have. It certainly can't hurt to hear what you have to say. I will say the "somewhat better than Timken" still seems like a bit much given McK is still typically better than the Fed teams (again, that's not high praise or a tremendous accomplishment; it's just way better than Timken, not "somewhat better.") Semantics, I suppose, and your point is not lost on me.
 

Caleb

Well-known member
One of the issues is since the BOE closed Timken now all the gang members go to McKinley and since McKinley is surrounded by open enrollment schools parents choose to send their children elsewhere. Just an observation. You can live in the SE or SW end of Canton and your child can get to Perry quicker the McKinley. I've asked how many student athletes have went to Perry in the last 6 or 7 years? Nobody knows but I've heard a lot of names that sure sound familiar and didn't a hand full go to GlenOak recently? Like that school is much better. Athletes in Canton are probably using the proverbial transfer portal more then any high school athletes. Another issue is there's been some outstanding athletes that lived with their mother instead of their father so they ended up going to schools other then McKinley. Again just like I said just observations.
 

pcbuck

Well-known member
Hmmm, I don't recall Timken football ever beating 3 Federal League teams by more than 30 points (running clock), winning the Federal League and winning a playoff game. The Bulldogs did all of that last year. McKinley wants more than a Federal League title and wants to beat Massillon, but the narrative that you and many others put out there is ridiculous. If McKinley is in such disarray, where does that leave the teams the Bulldogs running clocked last year (GlenOak, Hoover, Green)? Or Jackson, who McKinley has defeated 16 times in a row, including a running clock in a playoff win in 2021. In basketball, McKinley had defeated Jackson 6 consecutive times before a narrow loss earlier this season. McKinley has advanced to the Regionals in basketball twice since the merger, most recently in 2020. When did Timken do that? I wish someone could explain the phenomenon of people throwing out ridiculous b.s. narratives that aren't remotely based on reality.
I know it's not nearly as big a deal as beating Jackson in basketball, but don't forget the Bulldogs have won 7 consecutive games against their rival Massillon.
 

Raymo

Well-known member
The only thing good about the Perry game was I got to see the Freshman play, get ready Pups for some ROAD wins...BAM!
 

Caleb

Well-known member
That is for football. Basketball is actually different (I think)
The point is in basketball there is no Canton Regional anymore like "in the old days". In football McKinley goes to Region 1 where again "in the old days" they were in Region 2. It is much harder today in both football and basketball then in the past.
 

Zcoach

Member
The point is in basketball there is no Canton Regional anymore like "in the old days". In football McKinley goes to Region 1 where again "in the old days" they were in Region 2. It is much harder today in both football and basketball then in the past.

True, but it is Jimmy and Joes. The Pups, especially in bball, used to put loaded teams on the floor/field. Regardless of regional assignment, they haven't had the freaks lately. It will come back around eventually.
 

CantonAnon

Well-known member
At least they still play a difficult schedule.....Another local team schedules smaller schools and gets smacked. 😿
Nobody cares about Massillon on this thread. Stop bringing them up. You make Fed fans look worse than they really are.

As for McKinley, they are trending in the right direction but they are consistently inconsistent. If they can focus game by game, quarter by quarter, possession by possession they can make a run come tournament time. That is a big “if” though.
 

Caleb

Well-known member
Nobody cares about Massillon on this thread. Stop bringing them up. You make Fed fans look worse than they really are.

As for McKinley, they are trending in the right direction but they are consistently inconsistent. If they can focus game by game, quarter by quarter, possession by possession they can make a run come tournament time. That is a big “if” though.
There's never a bad time to take a swipe at Massillon IMO.
 
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