Yappi
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Buchtel HS alum Paul Tazewell wins historic Oscar for costume design
- Thread starter Yappi
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oxat622
Well-known member
Not that I imagine there's some big racial barrier or bias when it comes to costume design, but in general, it is a good thing to celebrate firsts.
eastisbest
Well-known member
b. we can do wtf we want when we want.
If the man wants to be proud he's the first black MAN to win the award and that bothers any of us, that's a us problem, isn't it. I do get the bigger picture you're referring to but he didn't ask anyone to judge anything. It was him stating what he saw as an accomplishment for him. Is it really unusual for someone to state they are proud to be the first in their family to.... First in their neighborhood, in their city... How is this different? Honest question.
Of course
When are we going to get past the idea that it is "historic" if a back person does something very well? Isn't that very condescending?
I do get the bigger picture you're referring to but he didn't ask anyone to judge anything. It was him stating what he saw as an accomplishment for him. Is it really unusual for someone to state they are proud to be the first in their family to.... First in their neighborhood, in their city... How is this different? Honest question.
oxat622
Well-known member
You're strawmanning your own argument. Are you criticizing celebrating a black person doing something very well? Or are you criticizing celebrating the first black person to do something well to that standard?
Pop quiz. Don't look it up. Who was the second black player to break baseball's color barrier after Jackie Robinson?
eastisbest
Well-known member
You never responded to my direct question. I agree with oxat622's assessment. Perhaps without meaning to, you're strawmanning. Makes the conversation difficult. He didn't just do something "very well." He did it "best" as measured by his peers. Every award in some sense is historic.
If someone wants to attach more meaning to it, that's their choice. Why should I get up in arms or feel I need to become a "we" that is up in arms over it? It's not costing me anything. Ask me again if there's something I have to lose.
Being the first person in your neighborhood to do something is never "historic."
I'm not strawmannng anything.
Every award is definitely not historic.
No one is getting up in arms.
For me, the next time I see a black person do something "the best" I will not be surprised enough to consider it "historic."
Just like this time.
oxat622
Well-known member
The difference here is that he is personally proud of being the first black person to win this specific award. You have decided it is right to gatekeep his pride.
If the media were the only ones pointing out that he is the first black person to win this award, you'd have a point. Especially if that distinction didn't matter to the guy.
eastisbest
Well-known member
Of course they are. Within that community probably even of importance. And you are strawmanning if you change the argument by not responding then argue the change. The very definition.
True or not: it's very normal to celebrate being first of your group to accomplish something, be that family, city, local curling club? How about baby's first steps? Not everything needs be Neal Armstrong to be historic and celebrated.
Why'd you even bring it up? Of course you are getting up in arms. Unless you want to change the definition of that too.
This should have been water off a duck's back. Not even worth a mention. However, since you did bring it here I think we can presume you are searching for a supportive audience. You have my permission to quit celebrating firsts of no meaning to you.
OK, you're right. It is a historic event that a black man could be really good at something.Of course they are. Within that community probably even of importance. And you are strawmanning if you change the argument by not responding then argue the change. The very definition.
True or not: it's very normal to celebrate being first of your group to accomplish something, be that family, city, local curling club? How about baby's first steps? Not everything needs be Neal Armstrong to be historic and celebrated.
Why'd you even bring it up? Of course you are getting up in arms. Unless you want to change the definition of that too.
This should have been water off a duck's back. Not even worth a mention. However, since you did bring it here I think we can presume you are searching for a supportive audience. You have my permission to quit celebrating firsts of no meaning to you.
oxat622
Well-known member
There's that straw man we talked about.
eastisbest
Well-known member
Strawman
First I say that it is not a historic event that a black man could be really good at something.
And you tell me I am wrong.
So I change my mind to agree with you that it is a historic event that a black man could be really good at something.
And I am still wrong.
How is that possible?
oxat622
Well-known member
In both of these, you're characterizing this specific black man being proud of this specific accomplishment as recognizing it when any black man does anything particularly well.
hubman
Well-known member
He also won an Emmy for "The Wiz Live". So he is the "G" short of the EGOT.
eastisbest
Well-known member
Lady Gaga mentioned she is one award away from the EGORT. Tazewell gets the grammy, then he's one bad costume away from a Razzzie and an EGORT.
hubman
Well-known member
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Someone is having a good year:
Buchtel High School graduate Paul Tazewell follows up historic Oscar win with his 2nd Tony
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