Big ten Hoops

Bevo

Well-known member
PSU, Rutgers, Ill. - up. OSU, Purdue, Sparty - down.

Lots of schools will want J.B. Since I am a Buckeye, I hope he doesn't go to I.U. I was pleased to have him out of the Big Ten!
 

Arrogate

Well-known member
I wouldn't put too much stock into Texas rumors bc they thought they would get Saban. However they will likely go after him bc they wont pay for Beard's buyout. They will have a significantly less buyout paid to Shaka than IU to Miller. If IU goes that route they better be sure they can outbid Texas. Pressure is on Del Conte to get a winner
 

14Red

Well-known member
Ok, time to bring this back up and since I'm an IU fan, I'll chime in with them. I think at this point, Indiana is what the is. This is a throwback to 20 years ago, when many teams played more outside in. This team still cannot shoot the 3 ball very well. It's amazing in 2020, that Archie Miller can't find a few shooters. Then again, I think shooting many times is a comfortable thing and if your coach isn't all in for shooting 3's then it shows.

IU played relatively well in 3 of their 4 games so far. The one loss to #17 Texas was horrid. IU shot below 25% from the field and from the 3 point line, scored 44 points. This team is defensive oriented and relies on passing and setting up shots. Trayce Jackson Davis is the star and he needs to play pretty well most nights for IU to have a shot at winning.

I feel it's a vital year for Archie. This is his 4th year and he's not played in an NCAA tournament game as IU coach. Now they would have likely made the tournament last year, but probably a 9+ seed. This recent ineptitude doesn't cut it in Bloomington.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
Ok, time to bring this back up and since I'm an IU fan, I'll chime in with them. I think at this point, Indiana is what the is. This is a throwback to 20 years ago, when many teams played more outside in. This team still cannot shoot the 3 ball very well. It's amazing in 2020, that Archie Miller can't find a few shooters. Then again, I think shooting many times is a comfortable thing and if your coach isn't all in for shooting 3's then it shows.

IU played relatively well in 3 of their 4 games so far. The one loss to #17 Texas was horrid. IU shot below 25% from the field and from the 3 point line, scored 44 points. This team is defensive oriented and relies on passing and setting up shots. Trayce Jackson Davis is the star and he needs to play pretty well most nights for IU to have a shot at winning.

I feel it's a vital year for Archie. This is his 4th year and he's not played in an NCAA tournament game as IU coach. Now they would have likely made the tournament last year, but probably a 9+ seed. This recent ineptitude doesn't cut it in Bloomington.
It is time IU fans realize IU bball was Bobby K. Doesn't mean Hoosiers can't win in the future but IU was only a top program because of Bobby K.
 

Chop Stix

Well-known member
Michigan has looked up and down against 3 mid-majors during their first 3 games but still found a way to win each by double-digit margins.

Michigan will be very good at the 2-4 positions as they rotate five starter-caliber players between Livers, Wagner, Brooks, Brown, and Johns.

They have a very talented true freshman at center, Dickinson, who still needs to prove he can handle the physicality of the Big Ten.

Most of their point guard minutes have gone to Columbia grad transfer Mike Smith who has showed he can score in spurts but is small (5'11) and unproven against high major competition.

Their next two games will be against better teams in UCF and NC State so we will see if they can step up their play.
 

14Red

Well-known member
It is time IU fans realize IU bball was Bobby K. Doesn't mean Hoosiers can't win in the future but IU was only a top program because of Bobby K.
That's not a false statement. And as time goes on it appears to be true. Although I liked Tom Crean. He won 2 big ten titles in his last 5 years at IU, basically started from scratch when he came aboard. He was just a little too tight lipped for many of the IU alumni based. I think it was perceived that Archie would be the right fit, but Archie's teams have really struggled playing the modern form of basketball. I just don't think you can compete nationally by not incorporating the 3 ball as a big part of your offense.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
That's not a false statement. And as time goes on it appears to be true. Although I liked Tom Crean. He won 2 big ten titles in his last 5 years at IU, basically started from scratch when he came aboard. He was just a little too tight lipped for many of the IU alumni based. I think it was perceived that Archie would be the right fit, but Archie's teams have really struggled playing the modern form of basketball. I just don't think you can compete nationally by not incorporating the 3 ball as a big part of your offense.
Archie might need to tap into his brother’s bank account to improve the roster.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Archie might need to tap into his brother’s bank account to improve the roster.
If it was only that easy. Actually, getting talent hasn't been that difficult for Archie, I think he's got 3 of the last 4 Indiana Mr. Basketball award winners. I think Archie's style is probably not overly conducive to landing big time players, but then again, after Duke, Kentucky and Carolina grab up the one and dones, there isn't much left anyway. And honestly, one and done's are not really Archie's types of players anyway. Romeo Langford still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. And nothing at all against the kid, he seems like a great kid. But you could tell from the day he set foot on campus the timeclock was ticking and he was gone. I really felt he needed at least another year on college but, when you get drafted in the top 15, you about have to go. I"m just not so sure he ever develops fully into the player he can become.

I think the grand plan is for Archie to have IU become like a Michigan State, where you don't get blue chippers, but you develop over time. The issue is Izzo gets it done, and up to now, Archie has not. Over the last 20 years, Michigan State has been the most consistently good team in the big ten, with multiple big ten titles and long tournament runs. Izzo turns guys who are not 4 or 5 stars into solid players and it's worked for him.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Very impressed with the first night of the Big ten ACC challenge. Big ten 6-1. Illinois and Iowa look GREAT!
 

wolves82

Well-known member
I sure hope COVID does not mess up the hoops schedule like it has football. Legit there are 7-8 quality teams in the Big Ten and this should be a fun season. Iowa, Illinois and Sparty look to be the top 3, but lots of strong teams in the next tier. I'll be shocked if any team goes better than 15-5 in league play.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I sure hope COVID does not mess up the hoops schedule like it has football. Legit there are 7-8 quality teams in the Big Ten and this should be a fun season. Iowa, Illinois and Sparty look to be the top 3, but lots of strong teams in the next tier. I'll be shocked if any team goes better than 15-5 in league play.
Spot on, the big ten is loaded in hoops this year. Unfortunately you are probably going to see lots of interruptions of the seasons for alot of these teams. The protocols for the college programs are way too restrictive, much more than the pro sports teams. It's nearly impossible to go a week or two without someone in the conference having an issue. Contact tracing is too much.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
The protocols for the college programs are way too restrictive, much more than the pro sports teams. It's nearly impossible to go a week or two without someone in the conference having an issue. Contact tracing is too much.
Clarifying - is it your opinion that unpaid college kids and multi-millionaire pro athletes should follow the same protocols and accept the same amount of risk? Seems patently unfair to me.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Clarifying - is it your opinion that unpaid college kids and multi-millionaire pro athletes should follow the same protocols and accept the same amount of risk? Seems patently unfair to me.
I guess if you want them to play at all, which from everything I've read and seen, most want to play. They have been given opportunity to opt out, and all have an extra year of college if they choose. My point is if you are going to have such high restrictions for the players to play, I don't know how you can ever expect them to get any games in. I suppose you think high school and college athletes should shut everything down, for now going on 9 months??
 

14Red

Well-known member
Clarifying - is it your opinion that unpaid college kids and multi-millionaire pro athletes should follow the same protocols and accept the same amount of risk? Seems patently unfair to me.
And to clarify back at ya...so do you think college athletes should be paid? And if so, how would you propose that these college athletic departments, already bleeding in financial losses, would come up with a way to pay the poor college athletes, whom at the D1 level have full 4-5 year scholarships and all kinds of perks.
I think after this pandemic, we can at least now put to rest any thoughts of colleges paying athletes. Many colleges have cut back their athletic staffs because they have no money. Next, you'll see these school cut athletic programs too.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
And to clarify back at ya...so do you think college athletes should be paid? And if so, how would you propose that these college athletic departments, already bleeding in financial losses, would come up with a way to pay the poor college athletes, whom at the D1 level have full 4-5 year scholarships and all kinds of perks.
I think after this pandemic, we can at least now put to rest any thoughts of colleges paying athletes. Many colleges have cut back their athletic staffs because they have no money. Next, you'll see these school cut athletic programs too.
Well, our little business sells software solutions to universities and athletic departments, so I can assure you that before the pandemic the money was plentiful at the Power 5 conference level. But they have all made the mistake of spending the revenue on exorbitant coach salaries, and not left any cushion, so yes, they are all hurting financially now.

But yes, I would propose that the Power 5 revenue generating athletes (football and basketball) deserve a small monthly stipend for bringing millions of dollars to the University they "work" for. Don;t get me wrong, I love Coach Ryan Day, but he could take 500,000 less per year, and his 100 scholarship players could get $5000 per season. It ain't that tough to figure out.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Well, our little business sells software solutions to universities and athletic departments, so I can assure you that before the pandemic the money was plentiful at the Power 5 conference level. But they have all made the mistake of spending the revenue on exorbitant coach salaries, and not left any cushion, so yes, they are all hurting financially now.

But yes, I would propose that the Power 5 revenue generating athletes (football and basketball) deserve a small monthly stipend for bringing millions of dollars to the University they "work" for. Don't get me wrong, I love Coach Ryan Day, but he could take 500,000 less per year, and his 100 scholarship players could get $5000 per season. It ain't that tough to figure out.
Ok, so what about the volleyball players, soccer players, rowing at Ohio State?? This is the fallacy of these arguments. Colleges have to pay ALL athletes the same. Be it Justin Fields or the backup goalie on the women's soccer team.
And I'm certainly not standing up for Day, but I'm sure when he began his coaching career, he was making peanuts. Remember the Urban Meyer story where he lived in his car the first job he had. These guys work their tails off to get to a point where they can reap the rewards. Now only a very, very select few get to the status of Day, or Dabo, Nick Saban, etc.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
Ok, so what about the volleyball players, soccer players, rowing at Ohio State?? This is the fallacy of these arguments. Colleges have to pay ALL athletes the same. Be it Justin Fields or the backup goalie on the women's soccer team.
And I'm certainly not standing up for Day, but I'm sure when he began his coaching career, he was making peanuts. Remember the Urban Meyer story where he lived in his car the first job he had. These guys work their tails off to get to a point where they can reap the rewards. Now only a very, very select few get to the status of Day, or Dabo, Nick Saban, etc.
I clearly said that I would only propose paying athletes in revenue generating sports in Power 5 conferences. Where does it say that all college athletes deserve the same stipend? That is what you said, but I thought you hated socialism? Do you also think that gas station attendants deserve equal pay to computer engineers and top sales people?

Sorry, but all sports are not created equal. The football players and men's basketball players bring in 99%+ of the revenue to the Power 5 athletic departments, with a very few exceptions (UConn women's hoops, maybe 1-2 others). The athletes creating the revenue deserve to get the stipend; their revenue is also paying for all of the other sports at the university!! The backup goalie on the soccer team knows she would not have her scholarship if it wasn't for football.

Welcome to capitalism.
 

14Red

Well-known member
I clearly said that I would only propose paying athletes in revenue generating sports in Power 5 conferences. Where does it say that all college athletes deserve the same stipend? That is what you said, but I thought you hated socialism? Do you also think that gas station attendants deserve equal pay to computer engineers and top sales people?

Sorry, but all sports are not created equal. The football players and men's basketball players bring in 99%+ of the revenue to the Power 5 athletic departments, with a very few exceptions (UConn women's hoops, maybe 1-2 others). The athletes creating the revenue deserve to get the stipend; their revenue is also paying for all of the other sports at the university!! The backup goalie on the soccer team knows she would not have her scholarship if it wasn't for football.

Welcome to capitalism.
wolves I'm not going to argue with your proposal at all. I think that would be very fair. All I'm saying is that's not going to pass the first glance from the NCAA, because they do not split up their scholarships by "revenue generating" and "non-revenue generating". In their eyes it's all the same, no matter the sport or gender. In 2020, with the liberalness going on, there is NO WAY anything like this would ever pass.

I completely understand your proposal. All I'm saying is it's not feesable under the current laws.

Truth be known, many athletic programs at these schools would never exist if it wasn't for football and men's basketball.

And just to back up, I believe in Title IV, it states that there be a gender equality in NCAA sectioned college sports. It's one of the reasons why many schools have to get rid of wrestling, baseball and some other men's sports because the number of football scholarships doesn't have an equal on the women's side.
 

EagleGuy

Well-known member
I enjoy watching the other big ten teams. I bet you do, too! :cautious:

TUE - RUT vs. MSU 9:00 ESPN2
THU - IA vs. MD 7:00 ESPN2

Check my days and times - and teams!!!
 

14Red

Well-known member
Ohio state failing with chris holtman.
I honestly would had preferred Holtman over Miller when they were hired. Holtman was still at Butler when Matta resigned and left them in a pickle. I think Ohio State was very fortunate to get Holtman that late in the process.
 

14Red

Well-known member
The Big Ten needs to get some teams in the final four and win a champioinship to get some national credibility. It's been so long since a big ten team won it all. Big ten hoops is actually much more competitive than football, it's not even close.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I honestly would had preferred Holtman over Miller when they were hired. Holtman was still at Butler when Matta resigned and left them in a pickle. I think Ohio State was very fortunate to get Holtman that late in the process.
At that point Thad pretty much got shown the door as he was struggling with recruiting and coming off two consecutive years of missing the tournament. Things went downhill quickly over those years with no real reason to believe in a turnaround given his back and foot problems limiting him somewhat in practice and more importantly being a source of negative recruiting on the trail by other coaches.

Gene Smith could have handled that transition much better than he did, and for it not happening until June that year they were incredibly fortunate to land Holtmann compared to what could have happened botching the timing that badly.
 
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