Basketball brawl......

jtk

Well-known member
at sports plus on Sunday 5/7/2017. Bench clearer, parent involved.......pretty sad that a basketball game would lead to such violence. it wasn't even the finals or anything like that. in high school there would be consequences for the offenders. are their consequences for aau/summer ball? the only thing i heard was the game was forfeited and both teams were kicked out of the tournament.

jtk
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jtk

Well-known member
the week before in buffalo a parent shot another parent. lol not at shooting but at how serious people take basketball.

jtk
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coltfan76

Active member
Someone needs to reign in these AAU organizations. There is so much shady stuff that goes on at these tournaments.
 

Carl Rick

Well-known member
Someone needs to reign in these AAU organizations. There is so much shady stuff that goes on at these tournaments.
There is nobody to reign them in. Anyone can start a team. Anyone can hold a tournament. Most of these events have nothing to do with AAU, that is just what people call them.
 

bengals wrestling

Active member
There is nobody to reign them in. Anyone can start a team. Anyone can hold a tournament. Most of these events have nothing to do with AAU, that is just what people call them.
I am an NE Ohio father who has 5 boys, 4 of which wrestled, with the youngest playing basketball. In all the years my older boys wrestled freestyle over the summer, they always had to get an AAU card. Now this year, my youngest was asked to play AAU BB, I agreed and paid the team fee but he was not required to procure an AAU card. At the time I thought this odd but dismissed it. He has played in 5 tournaments so far this spring and I have never noticed any affiliation with AAU at any of them. I have come to figure out that AAU is a generic term used by teams and tournaments to try to lend some credibility to them. It is what it is, my son is having fun, met some nice new kids, and is getting plenty of playing time. But you are right Carl Rick, there is no association with AAU.
 

coachted

Member
I am an NE Ohio father who has 5 boys, 4 of which wrestled, with the youngest playing basketball. In all the years my older boys wrestled freestyle over the summer, they always had to get an AAU card. Now this year, my youngest was asked to play AAU BB, I agreed and paid the team fee but he was not required to procure an AAU card. At the time I thought this odd but dismissed it. He has played in 5 tournaments so far this spring and I have never noticed any affiliation with AAU at any of them. I have come to figure out that AAU is a generic term used by teams and tournaments to try to lend some credibility to them. It is what it is, my son is having fun, met some nice new kids, and is getting plenty of playing time. But you are right Carl Rick, there is no association with AAU.
AAU has become a generic term for select bball...there is still the original AAU and it is still the most respected organization out there and the most expensive. Other organizations offer the same product/service for a lot less money. I have been coaching AAU since 1991 and the problem with AAU is over saturation too many teams..too many boys playing who dont need to be playing in "elite" tournaments and too much money being made by the tournament operators and some so called "elite" programs. Most kids need to be going to camps and playing in local leagues NOT traveling all over the place spending a fortune every weekend. But these multi-court facilities and certain programs make a good living off of more kids playing "AAU" and "personal training" so money drives the whole thing...unfortunately.
 

coachted

Member
Just your typical AAU day at the gym
Typical? You must not go to many spring/summer basketball games. Google high school basketball fights and see what comes up. The Wooster/Lexington (Ohio) fight must have been a typical January night of "High School" basketball not that awful AAU stuff.
 

tune89

Active member
Typical? You must not go to many spring/summer basketball games. Google high school basketball fights and see what comes up. The Wooster/Lexington (Ohio) fight must have been a typical January night of "High School" basketball not that awful AAU stuff.
Been to a lot...2 of the last 4 have had ugly behavior on display.....Friday night 16U local team at sports plus and another weekend at the Friars, St Benard police had to respond and both teams were kicked out....

the Wooster/Lexington game, looked more like a Trump rally with a few heckling protestors: Party:
 

spirit454

Well-known member
One of the problems from my viewpoint is nothing is done when the situation is a fan yelling from the stands or a player acting a fool on the floor. It seems nothing gets done until the problems gets out of control. Send a message by kicking out a fan screaming inappropriately before their is physical action. Eject a kid or force the coach to remove him before someone loses their cool and throws a punch.
 

JElder

Well-known member
One of the problems from my viewpoint is nothing is done when the situation is a fan yelling from the stands or a player acting a fool on the floor. It seems nothing gets done until the problems gets out of control. Send a message by kicking out a fan screaming inappropriately before their is physical action. Eject a kid or force the coach to remove him before someone loses their cool and throws a punch.
The problem with that is the officials have the authority to do it but at a lot of these events there's no administration to actually follow through with the ejections. It's not like in high school where you have officers at the game and an AD who can handle the situation.
 

Don Flamenco

Moderator
Someone needs to reign in these AAU organizations. There is so much shady stuff that goes on at these tournaments.
It's totally out of control. It's really just a free for all and then you have all the wannabe's and handlers throwing their weight around, acting all important. In reality it's become a terrible environment for the kid's.
 

spirit454

Well-known member
The problem with that is the officials have the authority to do it but at a lot of these events there's no administration to actually follow through with the ejections. It's not like in high school where you have officers at the game and an AD who can handle the situation.
Every tournament has a director. Every site has a manger.
 

JElder

Well-known member
Every tournament has a director. Every site has a manger.
Do u want to go find the director when in the middle of a heated confrontational fan? Not to mention for the most part the good officials stay away from these events unless they are legit big time tournaments.
 

spirit454

Well-known member
Do u want to go find the director when in the middle of a heated confrontational fan? Not to mention for the most part the good officials stay away from these events unless they are legit big time tournaments.
Do you want the problem solved or do you want to make excuses? It will not get better by only wanting it to.
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
The directors at these tournaments overwhelmingly have one and only one goal in mind: maximizing their profits. By clamping down on unsporting behavior and enforcing ejection sanctions, they run the risk of teams not coming back the next year, thus losing out on entry fees.

There is no accountability for misbehaving coaches, players, or fans at these events, which is why the majority of good officials shy away from them; additionally, the directors want to pay the officials as little as possible and often only want to use 2-person crews. Also, the directors are unlikely to defend officials who enforce sportsmanship guidelines (I've even been chewed out by directors at these tournaments for calling technical fouls).

The money is not worth the BS officials have to put up with at these events. I do not work this kind of basketball anymore unless it's in conjunction with a camp I'm required to go to or I'm trying to get hired onto a collegiate staff (which means we're using 3-person crews).
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
This may be true, but the ones that do will become known for running a good tournament and that will attracted teams.
Or they'll become known for actually having the audacity to defend officials who enforce sportsmanship rules, which will turn teams with s*ithead coaches away, and thus they miss out on entry fee $$$.

This happens all the time at AAU tournaments.
 

AllSports12

Moderator
There are assigners that employ the same "don't rock the boat" philosophy as the TD's....

If the boat doesn't get rocked, they are allowed to keep the assigning gig.
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
There are assigners that employ the same "don't rock the boat" philosophy as the TD's....

If the boat doesn't get rocked, they are allowed to keep the assigning gig.
Yep. Good point that I forgot to mention.

The assigners are making $$$, too, either through charging a fee to the TD for doing the assignments or taking a cut of the game fee from each official they assign.

If the officials piss off the coaches, the coaches get pissed off at the TD, the TD gets pissed off at the assigner, and the assigner has two choices: defend his officials or keep the gig by taking away assignments. A spineless assigner will do that latter. Money talks.
 

bengals wrestling

Active member
In my limited experience (6 tournaments), the officiating is almost no existent. Refs want to move the game along, get paid, and go home. The biggest gripe I have is why do the 3rd and 4th graders play in auxiliary gyms which are full court, but have the high schoolers play on a split main gym court with masking tape used to mark the 3 point lines. Makes no sense.
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
In my limited experience (6 tournaments), the officiating is almost no existent. Refs want to move the game along, get paid, and go home. The biggest gripe I have is why do the 3rd and 4th graders play in auxiliary gyms which are full court, but have the high schoolers play on a split main gym court with masking tape used to mark the 3 point lines. Makes no sense.
Not just the refs that want to move the game along. The TD's are sometimes up the officials' to keep the games on schedule. That means things that would get penalized in an OHSAA game go unpunished in these games.

Officiating is an afterthought at these tournaments. Want good officiating? Pay more, use 3-person crews, provide better security, and clamp down on the nonsense.
 

roadkill

New member
aau is not what it used to be...

it used to be an honor to make (versus being asked to be on a team, usually coached by a parent of a kid on the team). It comprised the very best players from a metro area and most of the teams were loaded with talent. The college coaches were lined up on the sidelines to watch the 'best playing against the best' and could really tell which kids had d0-1 talent and if individuals could help plug a hole in their college team after only a few minutes of play. Really exciting games and very little problems with parents or kids fighting in the stands because each contest was hugely important to their players' future and it was all about hoops. Dayton, for example had one team, one, the Dayton Metro, who represented the entire Dayton metro area and they were awesome. All of the starters went on to play d-1 ball about 15 -20 years ago. It was great to see players from little Dayton, Ohio whip on on teams from New York, Chicago, etc. From what I hear now there are 4-5 teams from around Dayton, with teams sporting players that aren't even starting on their own high school teams...a complete joke. I feel bad for the college coaches who fly in and make hotel reservations to watch teams beating teams by like, 130-40 in huge mismatches that show them nothing of the players' aptitude to play at the next level...most of these kids that spend thousands of dollars to travel all over the country just to say that they played aau. These kids used to play what they called 'select ball'...do they even have select anymore. Maybe that talent is what they used to play 'rec ball'...What a joke...sad really...
 

spirit454

Well-known member
Or they'll become known for actually having the audacity to defend officials who enforce sportsmanship rules, which will turn teams with s*ithead coaches away, and thus they miss out on entry fee $$$.

This happens all the time at AAU tournaments.
If parents and coaches get tired of the outbreaks and fights they will not be returning anyway. So keep control and run a good tournament. Word will get out.
 

zebrastripes

Well-known member
If parents and coaches get tired of the outbreaks and fights they will not be returning anyway. So keep control and run a good tournament. Word will get out.
Coaches are often the ones that fuel problems in the stands because of the way they treat their players and officials. Fans pick up on the behavior of their coach–this is true even in OHSAA games.

Despite your opinion, the reality is that there are too many coaches who take advantage of the fact that these tournaments generally lack accountability for misbehavior. That and the fact that they use the excuse that "we paid to be here" to justify acting inappropriately (even though in reality the coach himself didn't pay a dime to participate). Tournament directors pander to these coaches (many of whom have no idea what they're doing) to keep the teams as paying customers for the future.
 

spirit454

Well-known member
It's not opinion, it does happen. I have seen tournaments eject out of control parents and coaches and they are better behaved next time. As a parent if your coach is being tossed regularly he needs replaced. If the parent is being tossed regularly, stay home. If this became the normal response the actions would be help in check.

This topic started with a comment about a brawl and 2 teams being kicked out of the tournament. I'd say that was the correct action.
 

COBallCoach

New member
Some paint a really ugly picture of competitive youth basketball.
There are plenty of bad apples out there, but I also believe the experience for many leaves great memories that will last a life time!

I would like to hear real potential solutions.
 
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