Baseballmom13
Member
Interesting. Our HS (baseball) coach would kick guys out (that were active in another sport), of his open gym for baseball. It always pissed me off.
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BASEBALL TRYOUTS THIS YEAR
- Thread starter BASESWIMPARENT
- Start date
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
That is what happened to my son and then I thought I saw something on one of those OHSAA videos that said that a player could not participate in workouts for a sport out of season while participating in a sport on season. I have been told that I was a wrong. It must be a district or school thing where my kids goes.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
Very nice.
Thavoice
Well-known member
Or the coach just not knowing the rule and erring on the side of caution.
While in hoops we did some baseball stuff on Saturday's in the 'dungeon' as we would call it. Was just a few of us kids who played baseball. No coaches or anything but just something to get some timing down before spring practice started.
My guess is that coaches' appreciate a kid's attempt at getting some work in but think it may be better that he concentrate on the sport at hand.
I never understood the kid that needed a week off between sports. A day, sure I get it, but anything more than that suggests the kid isn't so into that sport. In the past we've had kids that played and lost in the state semis on Friday and were at baseball practice on Saturday morning. I sure miss those dudes.
I never understood the kid that needed a week off between sports. A day, sure I get it, but anything more than that suggests the kid isn't so into that sport. In the past we've had kids that played and lost in the state semis on Friday and were at baseball practice on Saturday morning. I sure miss those dudes.
Thavoice
Well-known member
I would always get bored around wednesday between seasons.
Honestly, I dont think it is too much to ask really. As a 3 sport athlete when I played, when the committments were much less than today, I had maybe a few days off after summer baseball and football starting. One time FB was starting the very next day.
Other than that it was one sport to another all year long.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
Our center lost on Sunday was at ball practice on Monday. He plays 1st and pitches. Did not pitch yet but I am sure he will be eased into it.
The coaches are constantly looking at their depth chart for this year and next. They absolutely already have an idea for the majority of the roster based on past performance. The past performance is a much bigger pool of information than even a week of tryouts. I highly doubt a kid wouldn't make the team because he had a bad day and the coach couldn't see his true skill. There wouldn't be any reason for a coach to hold an open tryout. The amount of parent bitching is bad enough already.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
Don't know the frosh or the sophomores. Also doesn't take into account improvement. Need to have the fall work, go out and watch the summer games or at the very least subscribe to gamechanger or something like that, check out PBR. There are a myriad of things to do if yo are going to have a three day tryout. After watching high school baseball for the past three years, I refuse to give the coaches credit that they just "know". At least not here in SWO.
That isn't a realistic expectation. The tryouts are merely a formality. These coaches don't get paid very much as it is given the number of hours involved and you want them to run around the area all summer trying to catch the 40-60 kids in their program's summer league games. I don't see that happening. So they show up to a game and the kid has a horrible game....you want that weighed more heavily than the experience they already have with the kids. Are kids going to get labeled and maybe never get their shot....sure. I have had this conversation with both my boys.....when opportunity knocks.....you better take advantage of it because you might not get another one.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
You can't have it both ways. Limited tryouts and no context. I don't believe in just "knowing". Way to many mistakes made. If we are going to go to "the coaches don't get enough line", then the coaches need to get out. They are not worthy of the players they are coaching.
"After watching high school baseball for the past three years, I refuse to give the coaches credit that they just "know"." - Baseswimparent
After coaching baseball for 35 years, I refuse to think that someone who has watched baseball for THREE WHOLE YEARS, has any idea whatsoever about baseball. Your opinions or "knowledge" of Ohio baseball rules/requirements and on the value of bunting have been revealed on this site several times, and I think perhaps you speak much too much of that which you do not know.
After coaching baseball for 35 years, I refuse to think that someone who has watched baseball for THREE WHOLE YEARS, has any idea whatsoever about baseball. Your opinions or "knowledge" of Ohio baseball rules/requirements and on the value of bunting have been revealed on this site several times, and I think perhaps you speak much too much of that which you do not know.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
You don't know me or know my experience coach.
Thavoice
Well-known member
I don't know this person's experience with the game but from my experience most of the parents had little to no connection to the game ever, or at least not since they played the game, and once their kids are through the system they then fade away.
A few stay2d around the game after they played, stayed connected and stuck around after their kids played as well. We have no way of knowing in this instance
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
I have umped, played, coached, managed and watched baseball in many states and at many levels (umped community college games with a PAC 10 umpire) for over 35 years. I know more than a little about baseball. Admittedly, my ideas have changed a lot in the last few years as I have studied analytics and watched and read a lot about pitching and arm care. I plan on getting back into umpiring to at least the high school level after my son graduates this year. (unfortunately he is going away to play so I will not get to watch him). The game has changed and I have somewhat begrudgingly changed with it.
So just to be clear.....you want a coach to see let's say 2 summer ball games for his 50 kids in his program. Let's say he has conservatively an hour of travel time and a 2 hour game. That is 300 hours spread over maybe 8 weeks in the summer. That is 37.5 hours per week for the 8 weeks. Does that seem like a reasonable expectation? He is doing all this so he can make a determination that the good not great freshman who is playing U15 looks good but not great against other freshman.....the great freshman is probably playing up in age group and the coach already knows about him.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
Absolutely. If coach is going to have three day tryouts in the spring, he either has to see the kids in some fall open fields (if that is allowed anymore), go to fall ball games or go to summer games. It is too important to the student athlete who may have been playing his whole life just to make the school team. The key is the student athlete. if it is too much for the coach, he is not worthy of the player. The player is what is important. Not the coach.
PeterDragon
1st Team All Yappi
This is why decent coaches quit all the time. Read the last three sentences. Wow.
Thavoice
Well-known member
Agreed. Good coaching keeps the program going from year to year to year, evem when talent dips. Good coaching keeps kids playing the sport instead of quitting and focusing on another.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
You guy's opinion is what keeps programs mired in mediocrity and forces kids to look for alternatives in private schools
InsideOhio
Member
By your logic, you believe that coaches at private schools cater to student-athletes more so than their public school counterparts. Am I understanding this correctly?
Philly_Cat
Well-known member
So you just assumed that everyone that commented here is a public school coach? Interesting
Thavoice
Well-known member
Really?
Last time I looked my program was one of the most successful program's in the state........
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
yes
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
Two words: SERVANT LEADERSHIP. It is never ever about the coaches, the officials or the parents. It is always what is best for the players. If you as a coach don't believe that then you are in the wrong profession.
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Look, we just have to ignore Baseswimparent. He is either a Troll looking to attract attention or he is simply someone who really has very little knowledge of what he speaks. If you read the majority of his posts, he just has an ax to grind with a particular coach or handful of coaches. Yet he spreads this small sample size to ALL high school baseball coaches (or maybe ALL high school coaches).
Again, in 35 years of coaching, from head coach to assistant coach, to a youth coach to high school and to college, I'm betting I've run across and coached with a much larger sample size than BaseSwim ever has. Have I run into some BAD coaches? You bet. Is that the MAJORITY of coaches? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! The majority of high school coaches absolutely love their kids and love coaching; they want to make the kids better players and better people. They want to win, but they want to do it right. And I don't think for a minute that us parochial coaches have an edge on any of the public school coaches as far as our skill, intensity, honesty or desire to do well.
BaseSwim blathers on about whether players can or can't practice under OHSAA rules. Yet when it is pointed out that he is incorrect, he simply dries up and blows away. He criticizes all SW Ohio coaches for bunting too much. Really? And yet what qualifies him to make that appraisal, let alone how does he see ALL the SW Ohio teams play.
He says a coach can't possibly make a correct judgment about players with only 3 days of tryouts unless that coach goes and sees all those players play in the summer. (Something I actually DO, as much as possible, but mainly because I love my kids and I like watching baseball). This simply shows his ignorance of the knowledge and skill of a coach who has been coaching for many years and knows what he's dealing with if he runs a proper tryout. Guess what? I already see my players play the spring BEFORE, so I already know about the skill level of all the players in my program, except for the Freshmen who come in the next year.
Another question: How is it that tryouts, (high school, college, pro, and showcase type) are held all over the country by people who watch players for, literally, a few hours, and yet they are still expected to evaluate those players for selection to high level programs or events. Are you suggesting that all of those gentlemen really can't judge players because they don't see them play all summer? That's laughable.
Finally, BS (for short), I will tell you that I can tell more about a player's mental make-up, hustle and attitude from the year before in my own program,or in my 3 day tryout, then I could ever pick up watching him play in a meaningless summer game. And for me, his attitude, behavior and mental discipline mean a lot more than his 60 time or his "velo"......before you make a blanket statement about high school coaches, I suggest you come to some of our tryouts and watch what we put them through and watch to see what we see.
Maybe your school's coach IS an absolute boob who knows nothing. But I'm going to bet the person with the problem in this picture might just be someone else. And again, that is just the reading of your many posts and the attitude that bleeds through. I'm guessing if you ask for some other opinions on this board, you'll find that I'm not the only person that guesses you'd be a nightmare to have around as a parent, whether baseball or swimming. Have a good day, BS.
Again, in 35 years of coaching, from head coach to assistant coach, to a youth coach to high school and to college, I'm betting I've run across and coached with a much larger sample size than BaseSwim ever has. Have I run into some BAD coaches? You bet. Is that the MAJORITY of coaches? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! The majority of high school coaches absolutely love their kids and love coaching; they want to make the kids better players and better people. They want to win, but they want to do it right. And I don't think for a minute that us parochial coaches have an edge on any of the public school coaches as far as our skill, intensity, honesty or desire to do well.
BaseSwim blathers on about whether players can or can't practice under OHSAA rules. Yet when it is pointed out that he is incorrect, he simply dries up and blows away. He criticizes all SW Ohio coaches for bunting too much. Really? And yet what qualifies him to make that appraisal, let alone how does he see ALL the SW Ohio teams play.
He says a coach can't possibly make a correct judgment about players with only 3 days of tryouts unless that coach goes and sees all those players play in the summer. (Something I actually DO, as much as possible, but mainly because I love my kids and I like watching baseball). This simply shows his ignorance of the knowledge and skill of a coach who has been coaching for many years and knows what he's dealing with if he runs a proper tryout. Guess what? I already see my players play the spring BEFORE, so I already know about the skill level of all the players in my program, except for the Freshmen who come in the next year.
Another question: How is it that tryouts, (high school, college, pro, and showcase type) are held all over the country by people who watch players for, literally, a few hours, and yet they are still expected to evaluate those players for selection to high level programs or events. Are you suggesting that all of those gentlemen really can't judge players because they don't see them play all summer? That's laughable.
Finally, BS (for short), I will tell you that I can tell more about a player's mental make-up, hustle and attitude from the year before in my own program,or in my 3 day tryout, then I could ever pick up watching him play in a meaningless summer game. And for me, his attitude, behavior and mental discipline mean a lot more than his 60 time or his "velo"......before you make a blanket statement about high school coaches, I suggest you come to some of our tryouts and watch what we put them through and watch to see what we see.
Maybe your school's coach IS an absolute boob who knows nothing. But I'm going to bet the person with the problem in this picture might just be someone else. And again, that is just the reading of your many posts and the attitude that bleeds through. I'm guessing if you ask for some other opinions on this board, you'll find that I'm not the only person that guesses you'd be a nightmare to have around as a parent, whether baseball or swimming. Have a good day, BS.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
Taxman, you are clueless and don't read all the posts. Other posters have posted the same experience with their kids being told that they CANNOT participate in Open workouts while they are in other current season varsity posts. So maybe it is not an OHSAA thing but a district or school policy. I don't know but I do know that 2 years ago my son, (who was swimming at the time) was told that he could not go to those workouts. I do remember something being said on the OHSAA slide show and/or video. We also used to have open fields in the fall where the coaches ran inter squad games. I don't think you can do that anymore so maybe things have changed.
As far as your 35 years experience, I don't care about that either if all you are doing is repeating the same thing over and over for 35 years. I am tired of "experienced" high school coaches teaching kids to hit down on the ball. I am tired of "experienced" pitching coaches showing up out of uniform 15 minutes before game time teaching pitchers the inverted W technique. I am tired of "experienced" high school coaches playing kids who are not getting it done because that player plays on some club team with a good rep thereby screwing the rest of the players during the season with their consistent poor performance during the high school season. (both of those examples come private programs).
I will take your word for it that you go out and watch your kids play in the summer or fall. I will tell you that your presence at those game sends a very powerful message to the players(you know, your customers) in your program and the parents (also you customers). AND the fact that you go to those games probably means that you have a good idea of who has what skill and where that person fits in your squad. You are an exception to my experience in SWO whereas I only know of 9 or 10 coaches (including assistant coaches) involved in summer ball and most of them work for an 18u cutthroat program. Maybe two of our coaches in our program run a travel team (like 13U or 14U) but no body goes out and watches their players in the summer and maybe get an idea where those guys might fit better on their team.
Bunting has its time and place. I think that SWO high school coaches bunt to much. The analytics tell you that the bunt is not a good percentage play. And there are some coaches who will bunt every time a bunting situation comes up, I don't agree with it. The numbers don't agree with it. This is my opinion and to be honest it is a relatively new one that I have developed over the last few years.
Showcase tryouts are literally looking for objective requirements: you know height, weight, speed, arm strength, exit velocity. They get objective numbers to see if one might be interested in watching a kid play or move. I always thought part of the high school mission was to develop their players. Do you do that coach?
Some private school do care more about their baseball program than public schools by a lot. They run hitting and pitching programs/ clubs all through out the school year. They travel during spring break. Their coaches are held to a higher standard and losing is simply just not tolerated for any length of time. For them it is a way to attract students and stay in business. On the other hand, some private schools don't really care and can have five or six high level D1 commits including one potential major league draftee and still barely go over .500.
Finally, this thread was supposed to be about whether 3 day tryouts were enough mostly in regards to the freshman, or undergraduate players. But it has devolved into a discussion about my thoughts on local SWO high school coaches and as you might have surmised: I am disappointed. I am disappointed because I thought that high school coaches were supposed to be the pinnacle of baseball expertise, that they understood that for most of their players, their varsity experience was it. And I have found that for most schools, the players are more committed than the coaches. That is what is disappointing to me and sad.
Also, when you look in the stands, I am that parent that never says a word to the coach except to ask how the family is including how their newborn is doing and I am genuinely interested. Never ask about player, never talk about players except to cheer them on. Records speak themselves. Good, consistent programs are generally run by good, consistent coaches (although there are a few programs that have good records but are still underachieving). You like many others on this board jump the ladder of inference all the time and think that criticism is personal, not well thought out and not based in fact. You are wrong. Take the criticism for what it is worth. If you think some of it applies than make some changes but if it doesn't, ignore it and move on. But just because you don't know me and you don't agree, don't dismiss it out of hand. I don't appreciate the implied personal insult either.
As far as your 35 years experience, I don't care about that either if all you are doing is repeating the same thing over and over for 35 years. I am tired of "experienced" high school coaches teaching kids to hit down on the ball. I am tired of "experienced" pitching coaches showing up out of uniform 15 minutes before game time teaching pitchers the inverted W technique. I am tired of "experienced" high school coaches playing kids who are not getting it done because that player plays on some club team with a good rep thereby screwing the rest of the players during the season with their consistent poor performance during the high school season. (both of those examples come private programs).
I will take your word for it that you go out and watch your kids play in the summer or fall. I will tell you that your presence at those game sends a very powerful message to the players(you know, your customers) in your program and the parents (also you customers). AND the fact that you go to those games probably means that you have a good idea of who has what skill and where that person fits in your squad. You are an exception to my experience in SWO whereas I only know of 9 or 10 coaches (including assistant coaches) involved in summer ball and most of them work for an 18u cutthroat program. Maybe two of our coaches in our program run a travel team (like 13U or 14U) but no body goes out and watches their players in the summer and maybe get an idea where those guys might fit better on their team.
Bunting has its time and place. I think that SWO high school coaches bunt to much. The analytics tell you that the bunt is not a good percentage play. And there are some coaches who will bunt every time a bunting situation comes up, I don't agree with it. The numbers don't agree with it. This is my opinion and to be honest it is a relatively new one that I have developed over the last few years.
Showcase tryouts are literally looking for objective requirements: you know height, weight, speed, arm strength, exit velocity. They get objective numbers to see if one might be interested in watching a kid play or move. I always thought part of the high school mission was to develop their players. Do you do that coach?
Some private school do care more about their baseball program than public schools by a lot. They run hitting and pitching programs/ clubs all through out the school year. They travel during spring break. Their coaches are held to a higher standard and losing is simply just not tolerated for any length of time. For them it is a way to attract students and stay in business. On the other hand, some private schools don't really care and can have five or six high level D1 commits including one potential major league draftee and still barely go over .500.
Finally, this thread was supposed to be about whether 3 day tryouts were enough mostly in regards to the freshman, or undergraduate players. But it has devolved into a discussion about my thoughts on local SWO high school coaches and as you might have surmised: I am disappointed. I am disappointed because I thought that high school coaches were supposed to be the pinnacle of baseball expertise, that they understood that for most of their players, their varsity experience was it. And I have found that for most schools, the players are more committed than the coaches. That is what is disappointing to me and sad.
Also, when you look in the stands, I am that parent that never says a word to the coach except to ask how the family is including how their newborn is doing and I am genuinely interested. Never ask about player, never talk about players except to cheer them on. Records speak themselves. Good, consistent programs are generally run by good, consistent coaches (although there are a few programs that have good records but are still underachieving). You like many others on this board jump the ladder of inference all the time and think that criticism is personal, not well thought out and not based in fact. You are wrong. Take the criticism for what it is worth. If you think some of it applies than make some changes but if it doesn't, ignore it and move on. But just because you don't know me and you don't agree, don't dismiss it out of hand. I don't appreciate the implied personal insult either.
scbuckeye99
Well-known member
1.) 3 day try outs are the time table our district allows us to conduct try outs in for any sport. Swim, Baseball, Volleyball, etc... The district allows us to conduct try outs over 1 or 2 days in fact but nothing longer than 3 days. Essentially if it takes you more than 3 days to figure out if a kid can play or not you're doing it wrong haha.
2.) Not a huge fan of his by any means but John Calipari once said "you can't want it more than the kids, if you do you're going to be sorely let down". 16 years coaching baseball, track, swim, wrestling and working in athletic admin more recently have taught me that this is often times very true.
3.) chill brother. there are greater tragedies in life going on as a we speak.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
He fired me up.
BASESWIMPARENT you are a helicopter parent. You are one of those parents who coaches can't stand. You complain about tryouts, bunting, summer ball, & the list just goes on and on. I can tell you if your son goes on to play college ball, the minute you call or email that college coach about anything he will look at your son differently and will let him go from the program after one year. NOBODY wants a helicopter parent in any program especially at that level. We as high school coaches are forced to deal with people like you and your constant bashing of how we do things, but to be honest we hear you and largely ignore your self-serving agenda. I suggest you stop living vicariuosly living through you child and get a life. Let Jr. put his big boy pants on and learn to deal with life on his own.