Astros Sign Stealing

thavoice said:
I did not comment it was different, bit since you asked PED use by a person effects 3-5 ABs a game, not pretty much every one.

PED user still needs to discern what the pitch is, usages does not help that!
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Performance enhancing technology does exactly that and is not remotely the same as sign stealing by a human being.

By your own argument, performance enhancing technology would be a bigger advantage than using steroids.

I think most baseball players would play better knowing offspeed vs fastball rather than simply being stronger.
 
Gh0st said:
Performance enhancing technology does exactly that and is not remotely the same as sign stealing by a human being.

By your own argument, performance enhancing technology would be a bigger advantage than using steroids.

I think most baseball players would play better knowing offspeed vs fastball rather than simply being stronger.
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You guys are clearly arguing the same side. Lol.
 
wolves82 said:
Well, if Fiers is such a stand-up guy, why didn't he say anything in 2017 when he was on the team and benefiting from the cheating? He waited until he was off the team and the Astros were beating his brains in (ERA 9.00+ against them). He is a rat.

It is logically possible to be 100% opposed to the cheating (as I am), and also consider Fiers to be a rat. If you are party to the crimes, and blow the whistle later only when it benefits you, I have no respect for you.
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There's zero chance a player is going to publicly admit to the media during the season that his team has been cheating. Bauer and a few other players have been talking about it since 2017 yet MLB failed to do anything about it. MLB and Manfred are the ones who deserves the most criticism here imo, because there's just no way MLB had no knowledge of the cheating until late 2019. They shouldn't be relying on player admissions and people on Twitter to do their investigations for them but that's pretty much what happened here.

I think if not for the Jomboy videos Mandred would've swept this thing under the rug by handing out a few small fines. Once the video evidence came out it was impossible to ignore.
 
Tony La Russa doing this in the 80s. Not surprising. Cheating is as old as baseball. Technology just that much crazier now.

www.espn.com

McDowell: La Russa put in sign-stealing system

Former White Sox pitcher Jack McDowell, who never played for Tony La Russa, said a camera-aided sign-stealing system was set up by the Hall of Fame manager prior to his being fired, and that was used after McDowell made his debut in 1987.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
EOZs3WOXUAAAmg_.jpg
 
Dusty Baker interviewed with the Astros to be their manager. Kind of hope he doesn't get the job because I want to hate the Astros but it's hard to hate Dusty
 
OhioBobcatFan06 said:
Tony La Russa doing this in the 80s. Not surprising. Cheating is as old as baseball. Technology just that much crazier now.

www.espn.com

McDowell: La Russa put in sign-stealing system

Former White Sox pitcher Jack McDowell, who never played for Tony La Russa, said a camera-aided sign-stealing system was set up by the Hall of Fame manager prior to his being fired, and that was used after McDowell made his debut in 1987.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
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Stealing signs with the guys playing on the field and in the dugout or bullpen is all good. Relaying that info among players/named coaches with signs or signals is fine. It's a legit part of the gamesmanship, and always has been. Not with staff people and hangers-on all over the ballpark.

Cameras and optical magnification are over the line. Monitors, cameras and any electronic relay system are cheating. No one besides players or coaches can be involved in the intercepting of signs. No electronics should be involved. If they couldn't have done it in 1908 or on a sandlot in the DR, it should not be permitted.

No telescopes in the Green Monster scoreboard circa 1940s, no guys with press passes in boxes next to dugouts and Apple watches lip-reading and relaying what Kluber is about to throw. No belly buzzers on Altuve signalling an off-speed pitch. This is simple stuff, really. The Astros suck b@lls, and should be stripped of their WS title. Blank space, __________ ________, won the World Series in 2017. Empty set.
 
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cabezadecaballo said:
Stealing signs with the guys playing on the field and in the dugout or bullpen is all good. Relaying that info among players/named coaches with signs or signals is fine. It's a legit part of the gamesmanship, and always has been. Not with staff people and hangers-on all over the ballpark.

Cameras and optical magnification are over the line. Monitors, cameras and any electronic relay system are cheating. No one besides players or coaches can be involved in the intercepting of signs. No electronics should be involved. If they couldn't have done it in 1908 or on a sandlot in the DR, it should not be permitted.

No telescopes in the Green Monster scoreboard circa 1940s, no guys with press passes in boxes next to dugouts and Apple watches lip-reading and relaying what Kluber is about to throw. No belly buzzers on Altuve signalling an off-speed pitch. This is simple stuff, really. The Astros suck b@lls, and should be stripped of their WS title. Blank space, __________ ________, won the World Series in 2017. Empty set.
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I think most people agree with you on technology (being used like this) clearly going beyond normal "cheating" like stealing signs during the course of the game...

On thing that came to me watching the NFL playoffs last week is how all football coaches in college and pros (and even high school and lower levels) hold clipboards over their face talking into the mic/calling plays. It's so normal, I bet there are clueless coaches at lower levels doing it just to imitate the NFL guys and have no clue they're doing it to stop the opposing team from stealing playcalls.

Does anyone doubt the Patriots don't have cameras on opposing coaches trying to pick up signals? I don't. Just look at that nonsense from the Bengals game this year.

Obviously, cheating like this when caught should be severely punished but I think this is far more rampant than people realize. People are going to try to gain an (unfair) edge no matter what the sport and the game does to try and stop it
 
OhioBobcatFan06 said:
If everyone's doing it, isn't it just home-field advantage?
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The Astros had a very well-developed cheating system that travelled, not just hard-wired monitors and cameras at home. They had a guy with credentials in the press pit right next to the Indians' home dugout in the '17 playoffs, stealing pitch signs and relaying them via phone tech, so no.

They should not have even made the Series, if not for their cheating.
 
OhioBobcatFan06 said:
I think most people agree with you on technology (being used like this) clearly going beyond normal "cheating" like stealing signs during the course of the game...

On thing that came to me watching the NFL playoffs last week is how all football coaches in college and pros (and even high school and lower levels) hold clipboards over their face talking into the mic/calling plays. It's so normal, I bet there are clueless coaches at lower levels doing it just to imitate the NFL guys and have no clue they're doing it to stop the opposing team from stealing playcalls.

Does anyone doubt the Patriots don't have cameras on opposing coaches trying to pick up signals? I don't. Just look at that nonsense from the Bengals game this year.

Obviously, cheating like this when caught should be severely punished but I think this is far more rampant than people realize. People are going to try to gain an (unfair) edge no matter what the sport and the game does to try and stop it
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All the more reason to make an example of them. Vacating a WS title isn't to award it to someone else, as some Dodger fans suggest should be done.
 
cabezadecaballo said:
The Astros had a very well-developed cheating system that travelled, not just hard-wired monitors and cameras at home. They had a guy with credentials in the press pit right next to the Indians' home dugout in the '17 playoffs, stealing pitch signs and relaying them via phone tech, so no.

They should not have even made the Series, if not for their cheating.
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Any road system would be infinitely inferior to their home system. The technology here is the edge and that requires a certain infrastructure unlikely to be attainable on the road
 
OhioBobcatFan06 said:
Any road system would be infinitely inferior to their home system. The technology here is the edge and that requires a certain infrastructure unlikely to be attainable on the road
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Well, duh. That's not the point. Cheating with tech can be better at home, obviously, but that does not discount the fact that they cheated with technology everywhere that they played. It wasn't just an unfair advantage in half of their games. It was all of their games.
 
I just heard stupid Andy Gresch on CBS Radio say that the Astros' World Series title cannot be vacated because not all of the players cheated. What a moron.

Any at-bat extended by even a ball taken for a "ball", or a ball put in play that advanced a runner into scoring position and changed pitch selection mattered. Even if no one scored in the inning but got the roster through the bottom of the order and gained an extra at-bat for the top changed potential outcome. Every Astro benefitted from those who cheated.
 
cabezadecaballo said:
I just heard stupid Andy Gresch on CBS Radio say that the Astros' World Series title cannot be vacated because not all of the players cheated. What a moron.

Any at-bat extended by even a ball taken for a "ball", or a ball put in play that advanced a runner into scoring position and changed pitch selection mattered. Even if no one scored in the inning but got the roster through the bottom of the order and gained an extra at-bat for the top changed potential outcome. Every Astro benefitted from those who cheated.
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Why do you get so worked up over sports talk radio? You know those guys are professional trolls, right? They throw out stupid crazy just to stir up guys like you to listen. Half the callers are fake.
 
eastside_purple said:
Why do you get so worked up over sports talk radio? You know those guys are professional trolls, right? They throw out stupid crazy just to stir up guys like you to listen. Half the callers are fake.
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Well, here^ is your Captain Obvious moment. Of course they try to stimulate calls. Today, they skim through social media to see what people are talking about there. The question is, "what points do they decide to support?". They may even take the less-supported side of an issue because it may stimulate supporters in the majority to call in. I found the "not everybody on the team cheated" aspect of "don't vacate" to be note-worthy in it's stupidity, that's all. ?‍♂️


"So worked up" Got it.
 
cabezadecaballo said:
Well, here^ is your Captain Obvious moment. Of course they try to stimulate calls. Today, they skim through social media to see what people are talking about there. The question is, "what points do they decide to support?". They may even take the less-supported side of an issue because it may stimulate supporters in the majority to call in. I found the "not everybody on the team cheated" aspect of "don't vacate" to be note-worthy in it's stupidity, that's all. ?‍♂️


"So worked up" Got it.
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You called him a few names and took the time to make a post about it on here. So.....
 
Stupid is a descriptor here.

eastside_poser is a name. eastside_princess is, too.


Not "so worked up", though, _poser :rolleyes:


Look at what you choose to respond to. By your own definition, you must be perpetually "so worked up"
 
Arrogate said:
Verlander's standup routine might be a little too soon.
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In other news, too early to call out the "Kobe is the second best NBA player in history!!" people ?

He may not even be the second best Laker in history. WTF?! Sure, it sucks he's dead, but c'mon.....
 
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