Archie Miller Out At Indiana

thavoice

Well-known member
All things being equal, probably should have stuck with Mike Davis longer. I think the Hoosier fanbase again got antsy and wanted more. Then again, Davis hasn't really separated himself as a great coach anywhere else. I did like the guy.
48-41 when he got his recruits did him in.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Reportedly Dane Fife will be coming to Bloomington to join Woodson's staff. So that's Woodson, Matta, Hunter and now Fife, one more spot to fill.

I'd had been ok if Fife was named head coach. He may be an understudy for Woodson for 6-8 years and take over when Woodson retires. Fife's been under Tom Izzo for years and years. I'm guessing Izzo's not stepping down anytime soon.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Reportedly Dane Fife will be coming to Bloomington to join Woodson's staff. So that's Woodson, Matta, Hunter and now Fife, one more spot to fill.

I'd had been ok if Fife was named head coach. He may be an understudy for Woodson for 6-8 years and take over when Woodson retires. Fife's been under Tom Izzo for years and years. I'm guessing Izzo's not stepping down anytime soon.
Woodson has been killing it so far, very impressive how he’a put together his staff and gotten kids to comeback to IU.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
He has done a very good job so far organizationally. I haven't seen any updates on this, but there were reports that Woodson was discussing an administrative off-the-court role with Larry Brown, pairing him in the less grinding realm of "basketball operations" with Thad.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Woodson has been killing it so far, very impressive how he’a put together his staff and gotten kids to comeback to IU.
This may be a chicken/ egg comparison, but if IU heard there was going to be a mass exodos of players, it maybe forced their hand with Miller. To date, I've not heard one good word about Archie Miller's tenure.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Interested to see if there's any swing in momentum in the IU/Purdue rivalry and the trajectory of both programs as Purdue has lost their top two assistants that have moved on for head coaching gigs elsewhere.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
How can there be anything but swing? IU has lost 9 contests in a row to Purdue. There's not a MAC school that would have lost 9 contests in a row to Purdue. That wouldn't have had at least one strong enough year to beat them.

Woodson is a name plate. That's it. Nothing in his resume says he has the skill to turn this around. Nothing in his resume would garner even an interview for such an iconic position. We ALL know, if he were .... another person, there would be outrage at this hire. Woodson is an assistant coach in all but name. He's there to be the figure head that can recruit. It's the others hired that they are hoping will form the talent into a cohesive group and game plan to turn this around.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
I think you have that backwards. Mike Woodson had zero recruiting experience prior to trying to recruit IU's own players into staying and is there to modernize some aspects of their style of play to the NBA game and run the organization while hopefully others recruit well and manage to sell his NBA experience as being a plus to recruits. Whether or not that actually works, he's definitely the chief of the tribe.

With Jackson-Davis and the Stewart kid that sat out last year returning, they are one transfer away from being intriguing and possibly pretty good next year if things mesh well early. The PG from Pitt was recruited by a current IU assistant who secured his commitment at Nebraska, and the prospect was released from that LOI after the assistant left for Indiana. I think there's a very good chance they land him.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
I think you have that backwards. Mike Woodson had zero recruiting experience prior to trying to recruit IU's own players into staying and is there to modernize some aspects of their style of play to the NBA game and run the organization while hopefully others recruit well and manage to sell his NBA experience as being a plus to recruits. Whether or not that actually works, he's definitely the chief of the tribe.
There is no way they win with him in charge of the x's and o's. Mike Woodson has never displayed the intellect nor the understanding of people and bball that Howard has. He's a position coach put in the most visible position in order to keep the right recruits coming in the door. He is the recruiter, experience or not. He's IU. He's PC. He's the recruiter. He's not the chief and I bet that was mutual understanding pre-employment. He gets an ego and tries to take charge of game management, they continue to lose.
 
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14Red

Well-known member
There is no way they win with him in charge of the x's and o's. Mike Woodson has never displayed the intellect nor the understanding of people and bball that Howard has. He's a position coach put in the most visible position in order to keep the right recruits coming in the door. He is the recruiter, experience or not. He's IU. He's PC. He's the recruiter. He's not the chief and I bet that was mutual understanding pre-employment. He gets an ego and tries to take charge of game management, they continue to lose.
I think you are making college basketball brain surgery. To win in college basketball today, you need good players who will play "some" defense, can shoot the ball, rebound and not turn the ball over crazily. Baylor just won the championship with a bunch of athletic basketball players who could break their man down off the dribble and either finish or kick it to a shooter. The lesser talent you have the more X's and O's matter.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Woodson = Successful IU Player.
Woodson = NBA coach.
Recruits = want to play in the NBA.
Matta = Recruiting
Fire = Recruiting.

Most of the player whom said they were transferring are staying, which I guess is good for continuity but they were only 15-17........
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
There is no way they win with him in charge of the x's and o's. Mike Woodson has never displayed the intellect nor the understanding of people and bball that Howard has. He's a position coach put in the most visible position in order to keep the right recruits coming in the door. He is the recruiter, experience or not. He's IU. He's PC. He's the recruiter. He's not the chief and I bet that was mutual understanding pre-employment. He gets an ego and tries to take charge of game management, they continue to lose.
Most people refuse to believe this, but there's a lot more Xs and Os and in-game adjustments going on in the NBA than there are in most college basketball programs. I agree that the only reasons Mike Woodson is there are because he's IU and PC for IU, but he's definitely going to be the one in charge of managing the game. Game management isn't the reason these types of hires usually fail. The pro to college guys usually bomb because they can't recruit. They have a couple guys on staff that do that very well, especially Hunter. I wouldn't be too surprised if it works out fairly well, and I wouldn't be too surprised if it leads to more disappointing results.
 
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nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Woodson = Successful IU Player.
Woodson = NBA coach.
Recruits = want to play in the NBA.
Matta = Recruiting
Fire = Recruiting.

Most of the player whom said they were transferring are staying, which I guess is good for continuity but they were only 15-17........
Sometimes a change of leadership (sometimes more just a change than the change being effective) can do wonders...I do think the Stewart kid would have been a major help for them this year and I wouldn't underrate getting him back. He would have averaged double digits and probably would have been their second leading scorer behind Jackson-Davis. If they get this dude from Pitt they should hit 20 wins next year.
 

SMARTY22

Well-known member
Woodson = Successful IU Player.
Woodson = NBA coach.
Recruits = want to play in the NBA.
Matta = Recruiting
Fire = Recruiting.

Most of the player whom said they were transferring are staying, which I guess is good for continuity but they were only 15-17........
I think it’s fair to say that the Players who are now staying at IU will receive better Coaching and Training under this Head Coach and Staff.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Woodson = Successful IU Player.
Woodson = NBA coach.
Recruits = want to play in the NBA.
Matta = Recruiting
Fire = Recruiting.

Most of the player whom said they were transferring are staying, which I guess is good for continuity but they were only 15-17........
Woodson's success as an IU player is based on his four years of scoring but that's about it. He never got past the round of 16 and that's with some of IU's all-time best on the team. He leaves, allowing Whittman and Kitchel to move up in game time and they win an NC. In his Fr years, IU had FIVE parade AA's on the team, Woodson wasn't one of them. Yet he was putting in 18 a game on a 14-13 team that lost it's opening game to Toledo? For some reason, Knight favored him but the team suffered because of him over the four years.

He most certainly was... midlin as an NBA coach and even less as a player.

Apparently a great guy but in any normal situation, he doesn't get an interview. He's there to be the face on the recruiting posters, maybe a position coach. Fife and Matta are there to create and coach a team. Time will tell if I'm wrong or right. The dynamics will be there for all to see.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Woodson's success as an IU player is based on his four years of scoring but that's about it. He never got past the round of 16 and that's with some of IU's all-time best on the team. He leaves, allowing Whittman and Kitchel to move up in game time and they win an NC. In his Fr years, IU had FIVE parade AA's on the team, Woodson wasn't one of them. Yet he was putting in 18 a game on a 14-13 team that lost it's opening game to Toledo? For some reason, Knight favored him but the team suffered because of him over the four years.

He most certainly was... midlin as an NBA coach and even less as a player.

Apparently a great guy but in any normal situation, he doesn't get an interview. He's there to be the face on the recruiting posters, maybe a position coach. Fife and Matta are there to create and coach a team. Time will tell if I'm wrong or right. The dynamics will be there for all to see.
Truly believe recruits know, or even care, about that?

They know he was a successful IU player, and a long time coach for where they ultimately want to be.
That's it.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Thad Matta isn't actually involved in directly coaching the team in his role...he's not going to be on the court at practice and I'm not sure he's even allowed to be on the bench for games. Recruiting in that role is pretty much restricted to a very defined number of things during on-campus visits. The "coaching" he is permitted to do is essentially being in meetings with the actual coaching staff, meeting with players, viewing and analyzing practices and tape, etc. Anything beyond that is actually a legit violation/infraction as it's subverting the rules as to the allowable number of coaches on staff.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
About what? The resume? No, that's why I said he was there primarily as a recruiter. I said that clearly, why are you asking?
Seemed like you weree trying to poo poo his success at IU because of whom he played with.

No matter.''''

I am hoping we found our guy. Many of wanted a former Hooooosier, lets see if it works out!
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Xavier Johnson has committed to IU over Baylor, Houston, and St. Joseph's...averaged roughly 14 pts and 5 asts over the last three years at Pitt.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Xavier Johnson has committed to IU over Baylor, Houston, and St. Joseph's...averaged roughly 14 pts and 5 asts over the last three years at Pitt.
Did they say Baylor had 5 of their top 8 from transfers?

Have to use all assets possible with spoiled brats transferring.

Used to just be JUCOs. Don't forget, Coach Knight got Keith Smart and Dean Garrett from the JUCOs, without them, 87 title does not happen
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Did they say Baylor had 5 of their top 8 from transfers?

Have to use all assets possible with spoiled brats transferring.

Used to just be JUCOs. Don't forget, Coach Knight got Keith Smart and Dean Garrett from the JUCOs, without them, 87 title does not happen
They had a ton. I believe Houston had even more transfer players in their rotation than Baylor. Arkansas was another higher-end team that had a horde of transfers. This seems to be becoming a permanent fixture now as a means to build quickly and to stay on top by plugging holes in the roster with known commodities as opposed to incoming freshmen.

I'm interested to see if this plays into whether or not Aarman Franklin decides to return or hit the road as he seems to have a few good transfer options on the table. His minutes at IU are going to take a hit with Johnson coming in and Stewart becoming eligible unless they play 3-4 guards a lot.
 
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14Red

Well-known member
Kuddos to Mike Woodson, he's batting a pretty good average with getting the transfer portal guys back at IU. Race Thompson is coming back to IU. TJD is back, along with Khristian Lander and Anthony Leal. Arman Franklin is the last guy I believe still out there. Al Durham is going to Providence. IU also picks up a kid names Xavier Johnson from Pitt, he was a 3 year starter, averaged 14PPG. Only thing is he quit about two weeks before the end of this season. Not really sure why. Pitt was 10-12 this season. Not exactly a proficient shooter 40%/ 33% career numbers. 6'3", 5 assists per game.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
The pro with Johnson is he shoots the 3 at a pretty solid clip, and perimeter shooting has been a major problem for the Hoosiers lately. The con that IU will have to real in is that he turns it over a ton, although his assist numbers have been pretty solid.

The first 10 days for Woodson have probably gone about as well as anyone could have hoped.
 

14Red

Well-known member
The pro with Johnson is he shoots the 3 at a pretty solid clip, and perimeter shooting has been a major problem for the Hoosiers lately. The con that IU will have to real in is that he turns it over a ton, although his assist numbers have been pretty solid.

The first 10 days for Woodson have probably gone about as well as anyone could have hoped.
Johnson is a career 33% 3 point shooter? Not sure I'd call that pretty good.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Johnson is a career 33% 3 point shooter? Not sure I'd call that pretty good clip, but it is better than most we had. I really feel alot of our shooting problems was that Archie really didn't like the 3 ball, it was not a shot he encouraged, so I think that messes with shooters. If you are given the green light and are free and easy with taking shots, they'll go in more. I also feel our offense wasn't conducive to shooting 3's. You actually run a modern offense where plays are drawn up to shoot 3's, or you allow players in transition to shoot wide open 3's instead of "setting it up" and I think the percentages will go up.

The Hoosiers finally got some bad news as Arman Franklin decided to go to Virgina. Yes, we'll miss him. He was one of our better players and a really good defender, slowed by an ankle injury the second half of the season. But for him, got to consider it an upgrade don't you? I mean, Indiana in it's current state, vs. Virgina, a year in year out good team with a good system and coach, and won a national title just a few years ago.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Said this to my brother and will repeat here when it comes to trying to 'convince' some players who are wanting to transfer.

You come to Indiana to play for the name on the front of the jersey, not the back. Those back-of-the-jersey guys can go and transfer.
I only want those players who want to be Hoosiers. The rest, good riddance.
 
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