Archie Miller Out At Indiana

14Red

Well-known member
I wonder if you'll see them hit the transfer portal hard. Recruiting seems to have been a big struggle for the guys that have been NBA guys transitioning to the college game, and it's why most of them haven't worked out. It hasn't been an X's and O's problem as the college game has been transitioning into more of a pro style, and whether people believe it or not, in most cases there's more in-game coaching and adjustments going on in the pros than in college. I think Woodson will be fine there.

Prior to Howard the biggest standout among NBA career guys in recent years has been Musselman, who's loaded up on transfers at both Nevada and now Arkansas. From a pro perspective it probably makes sense, as it has some similarity to free agency. Instead of rolling the dice on recruits and having to try to relate and appeal to teenage kids endlessly year round, you evaluate and identify the best available veteran free agents that have already played at this level and that fit your system and target those guys hard for a few weeks after the season ends.
I think he has to. The group we have at IU currently isn't winning anytime soon, maybe never. I think Woodson will bring in a more open style of offense, more 3's more running, kids like to play fast. The nice part is Woodson has no place to go. He's not going anywhere. He's at IU, will stay and won't have one eye on the door. I mean, who knows if it works out or not, but the IU administration has tried to bury Bob Knight for 20 years and it's not working. Woodson may fall flat on his face and we'll be looking for another coach in 3-4 years, but this is worth the risk. We're already on the downside, so if Woodson can do anything to make us compete in the next few years, he'll be celebrated.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
I think many were kind of disappointed, wanted a bigger splash, but you can only get what you can get. Obviously Stevens wasn't interested and many of the other current college coaching candidates had their plusses and minuses. Thinking about it a little though, I'm good with this hire.

Indiana needed:
- an Indiana guy - this can be debated, but since Knight's firing, the administration has been running from Indiana guys. 21 years is enough.
-Woodson has a long NBA career - today, when you recruit big time players, they want a path to the league, and I don't know many who has as many contacts or more respected in the NBA than Woodson
- You will see an NBA style offense at Indiana. This will mean we need NBA type offensive players. Some may cringe at that notion, but that's what big time D1 basketball has become. You can't do 15 passes and shoot at the end of the shot clock. You need multiple guys who can dribble drive and either finish or dish for open 3's.
-I think you'll see an exciting style of basketball at Assembly Hall
-The transfer portal makes its possibly to turn things around quickly. There will be approxmately 1,000 kids in the transfer portal. It's going to be like a huge re-recruiting period the next few months, and IU can put a competitive team together quickly. This doesn't have to be a 3-4 year process.

Now we'll only be able to judge Mike Woodson in a few years to see if he's got IU in the top of the big ten, making sweet 16/ final four apperances and we'll make our judgement then. For the detractors, we're a heck of alot better off today, than we were a month ago.

I think Thad Matta is going to be huge in this. I'm excited!
Does it feel like the same excitement that Hoosier fans felt when Archie was hired? ;)
 

JU-ICE

Member
I wonder if you'll see them hit the transfer portal hard. Recruiting seems to have been a big struggle for the guys that have been NBA guys transitioning to the college game, and it's why most of them haven't worked out. It hasn't been an X's and O's problem as the college game has been transitioning into more of a pro style, and whether people believe it or not, in most cases there's more in-game coaching and adjustments going on in the pros than in college. I think Woodson will be fine there.

Prior to Howard the biggest standout among NBA career guys in recent years has been Musselman, who's loaded up on transfers at both Nevada and now Arkansas. From a pro perspective it probably makes sense, as it has some similarity to free agency. Instead of rolling the dice on recruits and having to try to relate and appeal to teenage kids endlessly year round, you evaluate and identify the best available veteran free agents that have already played at this level and that fit your system and target those guys hard for a few weeks after the season ends.
I think he has too and think it could really jumpstart his coaching stint at IU and I believe with the way transfers are now handled that the coaches that learn to use the portal to the betterment of their teams are going to be the top coaches of the next 5years. Meaning, roster management is going to much more important than ever. If you are a coach and you know you have four open scholarships for the next year, do you go out and sign the top 4 HS kids you can get, or do you sign 2-3 and see who will be in the portal, that could come right in and fill the role the incoming freshman would have been asked to fill. Really is starting to look a lot like NBA free agency.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Does it feel like the same excitement that Hoosier fans felt when Archie was hired? ;)
Guilty as charged. I thought Archie would do a good job, although I wasn't for getting rid of Tom Crean. Archie tore it down and failed to rebuild. 4 years later the program was worse than what he inherited, and there was little in sight.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Purdue called. They think this is a GREAT hire! Two of IU's all-time in Isaiah and Woodson and also Tolbert and Landon Turner and one of Ohio's all-timers Butch Carter. Three first roundersm a second and Landon Turner maybe the best of them all and IU could never do better than a home and home split. Even post season, one year IU won NIT over Purdue by a point and the next year, Purdue booted IU out of the dance.
 
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cjb56

Well-known member
Purdue called. They think this is a GREAT hire! Two of IU's all-time in Isaiah and Woodson and also Tolbert and Landon Turner and one of Ohio's all-timers Butch Carter. Three first roundersm a second and Landon Turner maybe the best of them all and IU could never do better than a home and home split. Even post season, one year IU won NIT over Purdue by a point and the next year, Purdue booted IU out of the dance.
Turner and Tolbert were good big men, but they were no Joe Barry Carroll. Advantage Boilers.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Turner and Tolbert were good big men, but they were no Joe Barry Carroll. Advantage Boilers.
Turner was young. He would have been the superior of JB.

JB was good. Mostly he was tall. And smart. Guy lived in the library. But, it was one player and a bunch of solids versus I believe five IU HOFer. .an NBA Hall of Famer, three first rounders, a second rounder and another who would have been if not for the accident. JB was good when he was good but not that good for long. He had a marginal NBA career, which pretty much puts in the perspective. He was not the advanatage IMO. Schaus and Rose were excellent coaches who took average Big Ten players, mostly Indiana kids and put out a team that competed with and beat the Kelloggs, Isaiah's and Magics. I'd add Birds but I don't think they beat him, lol.

But to my point. I think Purdue likes this hire.
 
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cjb56

Well-known member
Turner was young. He would have been the superior of JB.

JB was good. Mostly he was tall. And smart. Guy lived in the library. But, it was one player and a bunch of solids versus I believe five IU HOFer. .an NBA Hall of Famer, three first rounders, a second rounder and another who would have been if not for the accident. JB was good when he was good but not that good for long. He had a marginal NBA career, which pretty much puts in the perspective. He was not the advanatage IMO. Schaus and Rose were excellent coaches who took average Big Ten players, mostly Indiana kids and put out a team that competed with and beat the Kelloggs, Isaiah's and Magics. I'd add Birds but I don't think they beat him, lol.

But to my point. I think Purdue likes this hire.
Those were great days for Big Ten basketball. Love him or hate him, Bob Knight set a standard and every other program had to raise their game or be left in the dust by the Hoosiers. It was a fun time to be a young Big Ten hoops fan. And if you were a Purdue fan, you were just about to enter the very successful Gene Keady era.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Those were great days for Big Ten basketball. Love him or hate him, Bob Knight set a standard and every other program had to raise their game or be left in the dust by the Hoosiers. It was a fun time to be a young Big Ten hoops fan. And if you were a Purdue fan, you were just about to enter the very successful Gene Keady era.
why else stay for grad school? I was gone before Todd Mitchel came in. Keady also did well with players most never heard of, until Glen Robinson.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
why else stay for grad school? I was gone before Todd Mitchel came in. Keady also did well with players most never heard of, until Glen Robinson.
I believe Russell Cross replaced Joe Barry Carroll as a highly recruited big man, but Keady definitely did it year in and year out with less talent than Bloomington enjoyed in those days.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
I believe Russell Cross replaced Joe Barry Carroll as a highly recruited big man, but Keady definitely did it year in and year out with less talent than Bloomington enjoyed in those days.
about a year in the NBA. There were always players that scored the points. Some came in highly ranked. Many did not. Recruiting against IU and ND never an easy task. Some had coaching careers. Stallings has some good years at Vandy. Cuonzo Martin. Matt Painter. Here's a name with an Ohio tie, Travis Trice tto be Sr. Few at Indiana's level of normal recruit.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Turner and Tolbert were good big men, but they were no Joe Barry Carroll. Advantage Boilers.
Purdue has consistently had a better overall program than IU, less valleys. However, no peaks (banners). Purdue is a fascinating program to me. They've had two coaches since the mid 70's and while they've had a measure of success, few final fours and no championships. Alot of REALLY good teams over the decades.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Purdue has consistently had a better overall program than IU, less valleys. However, no peaks (banners). Purdue is a fascinating program to me. They've had two coaches since the mid 70's and while they've had a measure of success, few final fours and no championships. Alot of REALLY good teams over the decades.
They should’ve beat UVA to get into the FF 2 yrs ago.
 

14Red

Well-known member
They should’ve beat UVA to get into the FF 2 yrs ago.
Who knows, that could have changed the fortunes of Purdue basketball forever. For some reason in the tournament they always run into some bad luck.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Who knows, that could have changed the fortunes of Purdue basketball forever. For some reason in the tournament they always run into some bad luck.
They’ve had 2 coaches the last 40 years, and are always consistently good. They just can’t take that next step and get to a FF.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Like the hire.

APparently in an article Jackson says that Woodson will finally "let them play".
Program has been in shambles since that SOB Sampson wrecked it with violations. That is partly on the admin for hiring a guy who was already a POS>
Crean did what he could do, finally got some of the in state guys to stick around and I admire for what he did for the program.

I thought Archie was going to be a good hire, but deep down I always wanted a former Hoooooosier to take over the job. Sort of wish it was one a little younger, more recognizable for the recruits parents, but with this NBA background maybe that helps.

Need to become relevant on a national scale again.

Lets.
Go.
Hooooosiers.

and...

F Purdue.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Like the hire.

APparently in an article Jackson says that Woodson will finally "let them play".
Program has been in shambles since that SOB Sampson wrecked it with violations. That is partly on the admin for hiring a guy who was already a POS>
Crean did what he could do, finally got some of the in state guys to stick around and I admire for what he did for the program.

I thought Archie was going to be a good hire, but deep down I always wanted a former Hoooooosier to take over the job. Sort of wish it was one a little younger, more recognizable for the recruits parents, but with this NBA background maybe that helps.

Need to become relevant on a national scale again.

Lets.
Go.
Hooooosiers.

and...

F Purdue.
I'll disagree slightly, the Crean hire was good and I think the IU admin just got a little full of themselves. Crean built the program from ashes and did win two big ten titles and got to the sweet 16. I just think people wanted more and thought a change would do that. I really think Crean would have eventually got us there. Besides, didn't Crean "let them play"? People wanted more structure and defense and we got Miller.
I do feel IU can get back on the national scale, but maybe not as much as the old days. We have to remember that college basketball is alot different than the 80's. I do feel Woodson is a good hire and Matta will help greatly.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
I'll disagree slightly, the Crean hire was good and I think the IU admin just got a little full of themselves. Crean built the program from ashes and did win two big ten titles and got to the sweet 16. I just think people wanted more and thought a change would do that. I really think Crean would have eventually got us there. Besides, didn't Crean "let them play"? People wanted more structure and defense and we got Miller.
I do feel IU can get back on the national scale, but maybe not as much as the old days. We have to remember that college basketball is alot different than the 80's. I do feel Woodson is a good hire and Matta will help greatly.
I liked Crean and he did a great job, I just thought he hit that wall and brought us as far as he possibly could.

Each time I saw Sampson during the NCAA games I cursed that SOB for what he did to the program.

Let's hope Woodson can bring it all together and bring us back to the National Stage.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
The majority of the rules that Kelvin Sampson violated at Indiana are no longer violations. It's ridiculous how hard he got slapped for that along with IU getting put on probation for a few years compared to how Bill Self, Sean Miller and Will Wade have skated off freely for a few years so far from any responsibility for the shoe company payment scandal.
 

14Red

Well-known member
The majority of the rules that Kelvin Sampson violated at Indiana are no longer violations. It's ridiculous how hard he got slapped for that along with IU getting put on probation for a few years compared to how Bill Self, Sean Miller and Will Wade have skated off freely for a few years so far from any responsibility for the shoe company payment scandal.
Indiana tried to distance itself from Knight and anything Knight for so long and it wasn't working. Sampson was a terrible hire and many of the things Sampson allows doesn't happen at IU. When Dakich was hired as the intrim the program was in shambles. Players doing drugs, not going to class, etc. It had to be blown up and Crean built it it back up. Miller's archaic ways pushed us back a few years, but Woodson can bring us back. TJD and whomever else sticks around, a few transfers and we can be relevant next season.
 

WishIWasGolfing

New member
It only takes one class / portal / group of kids to get things going. I would love to see Indiana relevant on a consistent basis. I thought they would go with Moser, but Woodson's NBA background may very well bring in studs on a yearly basis.
 

14Red

Well-known member
It only takes one class / portal / group of kids to get things going. I would love to see Indiana relevant on a consistent basis. I thought they would go with Moser, but Woodson's NBA background may very well bring in studs on a yearly basis.
You are correct there, it just takes a couple of kids in hoops, not like football where you need a dozen or so over 3-4 years. I think Woodson is better connected than any of us know.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Indiana tried to distance itself from Knight and anything Knight for so long and it wasn't working. Sampson was a terrible hire and many of the things Sampson allows doesn't happen at IU. When Dakich was hired as the intrim the program was in shambles. Players doing drugs, not going to class, etc. It had to be blown up and Crean built it it back up. Miller's archaic ways pushed us back a few years, but Woodson can bring us back. TJD and whomever else sticks around, a few transfers and we can be relevant next season.
Sampson won roughly 75% of the time while he was in Bloomington. His last year it sounded like they had some rifts on the team, but they went 22-4 under his guidance that year. I don't think anything he had going on -- kids doing drugs, skipping class, etc. were unique to him. Those things happen at a lot of schools as those two things are pretty big default behaviors for a decent chunk of the kids that get recruited for basketball, and it sounds like he got caught up in trying to continue to win (as they were) as opposed to trying to fix the problem.

I don't think he would get his a-- nailed to the wall as much as he has over the years if his problems were at a school other than Indiana, who many in the media dislike because of Bob Knight. Everything that he and the program actually got in trouble for under his watch is now well within the rules, and pales in comparison to the academic fraud that happened at UNC under Roy Williams' watch as well as all of the payment schemes at schools like Kansas and Arizona.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Hoosiers seem to be in the hunt for Pitt transfer Xavier Johnson. Averaged 14.4 points and 5.7 assists last year, and has averaged double figures the last three years. Probably one of the better transfers available.
 

thavoice

Well-known member
The majority of the rules that Kelvin Sampson violated at Indiana are no longer violations. It's ridiculous how hard he got slapped for that along with IU getting put on probation for a few years compared to how Bill Self, Sean Miller and Will Wade have skated off freely for a few years so far from any responsibility for the shoe company payment scandal.
While that may be true I have never been one to point at others and compare when I make a mistake. Sampson broke rules at OU, then at IU, and got them on the shart list. Plain and simple. I dont care about what happened elsewhere and their punishments.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Lets.
Go.
Hooooosiers.

and...

F Purdue.
Still pizzed about the Scott May thing huh?

Mike Davis seemed like the hire that would continue the tradition. He even beat Sampson on his way to the NCAA final. Seemed like he has conquered the post Knight expectations then... What went wrong there?
 

thavoice

Well-known member
Still pizzed about the Scott May thing huh?

Mike Davis seemed like the hire that would continue the tradition. He even beat Sampson on his way to the NCAA final. Seemed like he has conquered the post Knight expectations then... What went wrong there?
You asking about what went wrong wtih Davis?
He was instrumental in recruiting for Coach Knight, and did well for the first three years when the players who recruited in were for a BK led team.
He was 48-41 is last three seasons with the players who went there for a Mike Davis lead team.
I hated his stand around and chuck three approach to the offense.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
You asking about what went wrong wtih Davis?
He was instrumental in recruiting for Coach Knight, and did well for the first three years when the players who recruited in were for a BK led team.
He was 48-41 is last three seasons with the players who went there for a Mike Davis lead team.
I hated his stand around and chuck three approach to the offense.
Thad Matta is going to have a bigger impact than Woodson. Woodson needs to get a donkey.
 

14Red

Well-known member
Still pizzed about the Scott May thing huh?

Mike Davis seemed like the hire that would continue the tradition. He even beat Sampson on his way to the NCAA final. Seemed like he has conquered the post Knight expectations then... What went wrong there?
All things being equal, probably should have stuck with Mike Davis longer. I think the Hoosier fanbase again got antsy and wanted more. Then again, Davis hasn't really separated himself as a great coach anywhere else. I did like the guy.
 
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