Any suggestions on getting people to talk about girls basketball on here?

pupsband

Active member
Topical....last night at the girl's game, an assistant coach shushed the pep band as they were enthusiastically playing for their team. They didn't play for the rest of the game (it was the 4th quarter). I don't know how many girls teams have pep bands at their game, but that's not a good look, if you're trying build a following. The boys coach makes a point of thanking the band. Just my 2 cents.
 

D4fan

Well-known member
I know that volleyball is a very tricky sport. My daughter played for the first time this year in 7th grade and was approached to play JO. Not knowing anything about the sport, the information was spotty at best. Tryouts were in October? Practices through the Winter? Games were in the late Winter all the way through the Summer? Worst part wasn't able to get a clear answer on costs. She plays basketball and softball too and likely would be a part time player. The only cost amount that we got was around $1000. Seems like alot of money for a part timer.
About a $1,000. My experience has been that is about right early on, but as your athlete moves up and travel to Orlando, Pittsburg, Ft Wayne, Louiville all hit the same year your hotel bill will equal that amount. Our last season with my sons AAU team we spent well over 5k, and spent additionally helping get some of the kids to the tournaments when their parents could not afford additional cost.

Getting interest built in girls basketball? Lower the rim to 8.5 feet. At 10 ft you do not get the competition to rebound off the rim the way boys games are played. In southwest Ohio, there are those programs that have potential district champs every year. The fans for these schools have lost interest in following a team that is so predictably good. If we had more changeover as to who advanced deep into the tournament more communities would likely get involved.

To get more fan involvement, how about jv boys followed by varsity girls followed by varsity boys. Give the girls the national anthem. This allows boys who play both jv and varsity to recover more than if they play back to back.
 

Denizen

New member
I remember that happening around the state at a few conferences. When they moved the boys games to Saturday nights and the girls games to Friday nights, the crowds still followed the boys games. Saturday became the big night to follow games.

The best thing that I have seen to increase the interest in girls basketball is to get the students involved. I've seen that in several sports where they get the student sections involved whether it is volleyball, basketball, soccer, or softball. The more kids that show interest seems to bring more excitement to the game. But you need a dedicated AD to push this for multiple seasons.

I've also seen the opposite where at the boys games, the students are sitting all over the place and not paying attention to the game. They start with decent crowds at the start of the season and end with almost no students by the end of the year.
We are very fortunate at the school my kid plays at because the student section is primarily made up of players from the boys team, and they get into it. It makes sense--the kids who really love the game should love being a fan nearly as much as playing. We get bigger student sections for boys games but really don't play anywhere that has nearly as big a student section as us. I think a big factor is letting the students (and in our case, pep band) know you appreciate them. And in our case, the pep band prefers playing at girls game because they are appreciated. As parents, we pass the hat and feed the student section a few times a year and feed the band once. Little things like that, 10 or 15 dollars per season, goes a long way toward building support for your program.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
I see a few students, but they generally don't sit together in one area. My school doesn't bother pulling out the student section bleachers at the end of the court for girls games. Players from the boys team who have their own transportation will stay and watch if they practiced right before the girls play. Otherwise, it's just a handful of students in the crowd who are the players' close friends or siblings.

Admittedly, the only girls games I attended while in HS were part of a girl-boy doubleheader. The thought of attending never crossed my mind, I never followed their schedule, and I wasn't friends with any of the players until end of senior year when one of them often served as my euchre partner during study hall.
 

MCGal

Well-known member
I'd take it a step further and occasionally flip the order of games to where girls varsity is in the "prime time" slot.

My school does a varsity doubleheader each year. Aside from the usual girls game crowd, the fans don't make much of an effort to arrive in time for the 6pm girls tip-off. However, they may do so for a 6pm boys tip-off and then decide to stay for the girls game since they're already in the gym. It's worth a shot.
Great idea and I actually saw it happen this year at Walsh Jesuit HS. Props to them for that, but the boys JV/Varsity played in the afternoon and the girls JV/Varsity played after. There was a nice crowd for both.
 

Kballer

Well-known member
We were fortunate that during my daughters years of HS ball they had a very successful team. The boys team (who were the cool kids) practiced before the girls games during the week and the guys would stay to cheer on the girls and encourage other students to come as well. We always had teachers and staff that came to games- it was a smaller school and We were fortunate there was always a good Student turnout for all activities.

For a couple of years a local school did a double header for senior night- had all of the seniors for both teams introduced between games. Always though this was a great idea
 

HardCorps

Well-known member
The WNBA has been a marketing failure. The NCAA does a much better job especially at tourney time (Final 4). If the NCAA could do an all around better job throughout the season perhaps that could plant some seeds of interest in the younger minds.
 

Falcon7

Active member
Fairmont lost yesterday at home, what happened?
I didn't think Mercy McAuley was all that good, they lost to Mt. Notre Dame by 35, yeah I know MND is likely the best team in the State.
They have 2 really tough games this week, at Carroll tomorrow and then 17-1 Wayne at home on Wed.
 
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D4fan

Well-known member
The WNBA has been a marketing failure. The NCAA does a much better job especially at tourney time (Final 4). If the NCAA could do an all around better job throughout the season perhaps that could plant some seeds of interest in the younger minds.
I read up a bit on WNBA after reading your comment, as I have zero interest in their game. Seems attendance continues to drop at WNBA contest but more careful examination shows much of the drop is related to a couple teams moving out of 10k seat arenas and into 4k seat "gyms" in order to generate ticket shortages and hope to build interest by making it a ticket in demand.

I enjoy watching the girls game, but that is largely because I like basketball. I can drive other members of my family nuts with my watching teams we have no close connection to just because I like the game.

WNBA leaders seem to believe their brand is at the same place the men's game was in the 1960's. With time more interest will build. I doubt that personally. There is a lack of market exposure when compared to the men's game in the 60's or 70's when NBA was on local TV on a regular basis. I watch NBA when everything else has went to baseball.

So why are more people interested in the men's side than the women? Perhaps simple as the fact people who are not as interested in the game as a whole, prefer to see the best brand of the game in terms of entertainment.

Lower the rim, not just for dunking, but primarily for better rebounding advantage, and the game becomes more equivalent to the men. Shorten the court to make the game speed more similar.
 

Yappi

Go Buckeyes
I think they should be trying to differentiate the girls game from the boys game.

I have talked to alot of people the last few months that are really starting to get into women's softball. They watch alot of college games on the ESPN stations. Most of them do not have daughters that play(ed) the game. What was interesting is that they said they really enjoyed the game because it was similar to baseball but also very different. They weren't comparing the athleticism and skills between baseball and softball because the games are played so differently. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to go with some drastic rule changes that would make the games more competitive and more entertaining.

One suggestion that I saw for basketball in general a while back was to let each team have their own homecourt dimensions. That included moving the 3 point line in closer or further away. There were limits of course to how much they could change things but it would be fun to watch a great 3 point shooting team get knocked off when they went to a court that had the 3 point line at 30 feet.
 

D4fan

Well-known member
I think they should be trying to differentiate the girls game from the boys game.

I have talked to alot of people the last few months that are really starting to get into women's softball. They watch alot of college games on the ESPN stations. Most of them do not have daughters that play(ed) the game. What was interesting is that they said they really enjoyed the game because it was similar to baseball but also very different. They weren't comparing the athleticism and skills between baseball and softball because the games are played so differently. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to go with some drastic rule changes that would make the games more competitive and more entertaining.

One suggestion that I saw for basketball in general a while back was to let each team have their own homecourt dimensions. That included moving the 3 point line in closer or further away. There were limits of course to how much they could change things but it would be fun to watch a great 3 point shooting team get knocked off when they went to a court that had the 3 point line at 30 feet.
I can see the value in making the game different. I like to watch volleyball but the men's vs women's games are power vs finesse, two totally different games. They do change the height of the net based on men or women to help with the difference in the average height at which the ball can be attacked.
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
In looking through the NE District tournament assignments, I notice that 5 schools have withdrawn from their respective tournaments over the course of the season:
Cleveland John Marshall (DI)
Akron North (DI)
Cleveland MLK (DII)
Akron East (DII)
Cleveland JFK (DIII)
 

D4fan

Well-known member
In looking through the NE District tournament assignments, I notice that 5 schools have withdrawn from their respective tournaments over the course of the season:
Cleveland John Marshall (DI)
Akron North (DI)
Cleveland MLK (DII)
Akron East (DII)
Cleveland JFK (DIII)
What's your take on the reason? Non competitive?
 

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
What's your take on the reason? Non competitive?
I don't know the reasons, but it's not a good situation. John Marshall withdrew on November 5 which would suggest that they couldn't field a team. The other 4 have all withdrawn within the past 2.5 weeks.
 

IVCguy

Active member
I really like girls hs basketball and I follow Ashland and Ohio State women's programs. My son and my friends cant stand it and dont understand my interest. I tell them that you have to look at it as a different sport than the boys/men's game.

The girls game is uglier with more turnovers, ball tie-ups, and collisions. There are more loose balls. Some people just rule it out because the game is prettier and more fluid when the players have Y chromosomes.

But, if you can avoid comparing, the girls teams who have a high degree of fundamental skills are fun to watch. There are great athletes, but it is more a game of team execution as opposed to individual athleticism.

But it appears to be a hard sell, and sexism doesnt explain it because my daughter, who played in 3 OHSAA state championship games is now 26 and has zero interest in girls/women's basketball.

Lower participation is related to parents not valuing the life skills sports can contribute to a kid's development into an adult, and feeling sports are too time-consuming. We have all these wonderful technologies that should save us time, but, ironically, they also seem to steal more than they save. Seems to me it would be a good idea to tell their kids to put down their phones and pick up a ball. But that's just a grouchy old man talking.

Oh, and get off my lawn. 😁
 

Red14

Active member
1. Athletes (and parents) feel it is "below" them to have to play JV so if they aren't going to play varsity as a freshman they don't go out.
2. Parents, parents, parents. Parents bad mouth coaches at home to the extent that the player no longer wants to play for their coach. "Coach only plays his favorites" type of parent.
3. Off season sports commitments. Too many volleyball/soccer/softball leagues and/or practices in the winter and spring. Travel clubs are making kids choose a sport and it is hurting all sports. I hate this one. I feel kids should embrace and enjoy playing for their school but "Joe Knows Everything Club Coach" is telling them that if they don't play their sport in the offseason then they will never get a scholorship tom play in college.
4. Club sports $$$$$$$. It is VERY expensive to play any sport outside of the school. Kids and parents have to choose becasue they can't afford to do all the club sports. If a parent is going to spend thousands on soccer training then they may force their kid not to play school sports so they don't interfere with their paid training.
5. Skills-Basketball takes a lot of skill and not everyone has the skills/coordination to put the ball in the basket or even dribble while running.
Excellent post, this issue is complex and there isn't a one size fits all remedy. Some of my thoughts..

We design sports at the school level as "extracurricular" meaning it's an extension of school. You want to run kids out of a school, do away with sports and see what happens. Now, we're also the United State, and capitalism lives, and that's a good thing.
Boys, for the most part, feel a certain degree of loyalty and feeling they "should" play for the school team. This does not exist with girls for the most part. Girls are in an activity for them, not any attachment to school. This ironically goes completely against Title IX, which is really the basis of women's sports. So the very laws that many worked so hard to get equality of girls to be able to play sports, isn't even fully being taken advantage of.
Are "club" "travel" and "elite" sports outlived their existence? The issue is many of these clubs are just privately owned "teams" where the club is at the mercy of who they keep on their teams. At the end of the day, they need bodies. You pay your money, your kid has a spot, regardless of their skill level. I say this has been the major deterrent of school sponsored sports. In school sports, there's a level playing field. It does not matter who your parents are or what your parents do. The best players play.
The biggest myth out there is the availability of athletic scholarships. There simply isn't much out there. Even D1 programs in sports that are not football and men's basketball has limited scholarships. D2 has some, D3 has none. I contend that some parents have already paid for a few years of college tuition for their kid to play on a D3 college sports team.
I completely agree on the basketball component. Basketball is a sport that takes time to be efficient at. Most other sports are not that way. Football, outside of the QB, does not take as much skill sets. It's either catch the ball, run the ball or tackle the ball. For girls, volleyball is a reactionary sport, jump and hit, or receive. That's it. Basketball takes catching, passing, dribbling, shooting, rebounding...add to that the pace, recognition of how to play in space, boxing out, just many more skill sets involved.
 

Red14

Active member
The WNBA has been a marketing failure. The NCAA does a much better job especially at tourney time (Final 4). If the NCAA could do an all around better job throughout the season perhaps that could plant some seeds of interest in the younger minds.
The NBA brand of basketball is very polarizing. There are people who love it, and hate it, and not much ground in the middle. Some staunch, loyal basketball fans can't stand the NBA. I like the NBA, I like about any kind of basketball.
Title IX has been forced down our throats for decades, and you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. We've seen it all, boy / girl doubleheaders, girls moving conference games to Fridays and flip flopping with the boys - that's been an epic fail. Girls high school sports are supported in some communities, but not most. It generally has to do with success.

Think about the numbers of sports available to kids today that wasn't 40-50 years ago. Volleyball was a gym class sport, most schools had a team but there was no club ball. Basketball was the same way. There really wasn't high school soccer or lacrosse. So when you add more sports, and keep the same percentage of female athletes, the numbers per sport are going to drop.
 

IVCguy

Active member
The NBA brand of basketball is very polarizing. There are people who love it, and hate it, and not much ground in the middle. Some staunch, loyal basketball fans can't stand the NBA. I like the NBA, I like about any kind of basketball.
I can't stand the NBA regular season because there is a "coasting" that takes place. The players have to coast because they are playing 82 games. At best, they play hard on both ends the last minute or two of a quarter, but I have heard it said that "there is nothing more irrelevant than the first 3 1/2 quarters of an NBA game." The goal seems to be that you coast as much as you can, try to have a couple of spurts, keep the game within reach, and the first 3 1/2 quarters set up the last 5 or 6 minutes where you really try to win the game.

If you watch only the last 5 minutes of an NBA game, the vast majority of the time, you have seen the substance of the game. My sense is that most NBA games are 75-80% show production with the other 20-25% being a competitive sport - mostly just at the end. If you want to see the best players in the world playing basketball with a show, then the NBA is for you. I just resent the show part of it.

The intensity and competition goes up a good notch in the post-season, and the game gets better, but give me the effort and intensity of a HS district final or any game in the NCAA tournament over the NBA playoffs. I recognize the relative popularity of NBA basketball, but I think that popularity could be very fragile. It seems to rely on its stars, especially several stars who come together to play on one team. I would liken it to boxing. If Ali, Frazier, Leonard, Hagler, Tyson, etc are fighting, then people are tuning in and buying tickets. If you have no idea who these guys are, and no affinity for them, you don't follow boxing. I suppose there are enough present superstars in pro basketball, but your Magics, Birds, MJs, Lebrons, etc. are a small and limited group. If the NBA finds itself without a true superstar, I think their following will tank.

Segueing back to the topic, if the NBA is a hard sell to some people, when you have the same show factor with the WNBA, given what seems to be a common aversion to watching females play the game, the show and the game isn't very appealing, and you end up with empty arenas and miniscule TV ratings.
 

Red14

Active member
I can't stand the NBA regular season because there is a "coasting" that takes place. The players have to coast because they are playing 82 games. At best, they play hard on both ends the last minute or two of a quarter, but I have heard it said that "there is nothing more irrelevant than the first 3 1/2 quarters of an NBA game." The goal seems to be that you coast as much as you can, try to have a couple of spurts, keep the game within reach, and the first 3 1/2 quarters set up the last 5 or 6 minutes where you really try to win the game.

If you watch only the last 5 minutes of an NBA game, the vast majority of the time, you have seen the substance of the game. My sense is that most NBA games are 75-80% show production with the other 20-25% being a competitive sport - mostly just at the end. If you want to see the best players in the world playing basketball with a show, then the NBA is for you. I just resent the show part of it.

The intensity and competition goes up a good notch in the post-season, and the game gets better, but give me the effort and intensity of a HS district final or any game in the NCAA tournament over the NBA playoffs. I recognize the relative popularity of NBA basketball, but I think that popularity could be very fragile. It seems to rely on its stars, especially several stars who come together to play on one team. I would liken it to boxing. If Ali, Frazier, Leonard, Hagler, Tyson, etc are fighting, then people are tuning in and buying tickets. If you have no idea who these guys are, and no affinity for them, you don't follow boxing. I suppose there are enough present superstars in pro basketball, but your Magics, Birds, MJs, Lebrons, etc. are a small and limited group. If the NBA finds itself without a true superstar, I think their following will tank.

Segueing back to the topic, if the NBA is a hard sell to some people, when you have the same show factor with the WNBA, given what seems to be a common aversion to watching females play the game, the show and the game isn't very appealing, and you end up with empty arenas and miniscule TV ratings.
I like NBA basketball and yes, you are right on most accounts, the regular season games can be a grind. Unfortunatley, the PLAYERS have made it less attractive by their effort. The whole load management, money has turned these guys into only worrying about making the playoffs, not doing their best. I'd like to see the playoffs more slanted to the home team. maybe make it for the top two seeds, 5 home games, 2 road games for series instead of the 4-3 format.
Back in the 80's/ 90's, we didn't see Jordan, Magic and those guys take games off. Most played 80-82 games per season. The other reason NBA games are never over because of the shot clock and multitude of possessions. I almost wonder if a 30-36 second shot clock would help the NBA game. The triple-double is too easy to attain now. Any players who have the ball in their hands much or play more than 35 minutes SHOULD get a triple double.
The NBA will always be popular because it appeals to the young audience, but it's still a big city, big market game. I actually think the game is pretty healthy now as there are alot of really good young players. Maybe more than ever. A place where the NBA really shoots itself in the foot is allowing ESPN and TNT to market only certain players. I'll use two players in particular. Trey Young vs. Donovan Mitchell. Trey Young was somehow put on a marketing pedistal from his year at Oklahoma and subsequently his pro career in a large market Atlanta. Donovan Mitchell, a virtual unknown in college, is a much better all around player than Young, but only die hard NBA fans know and appreciate him. Zion Williamson is a good player, but unfortunatley we're getting him jammed down our throat as well. I want to see guys perform for a few years before we put them in the hall of fame.
There would be no WNBA without huge supplements from the NBA.
 

ringer2

Active member
I don’t have much to offer the discussion regarding Xs and Os as my BB knowledge is limited. However, my interest in GBB has been growing for several years and is now equal to if not having possibly passed HS FB. 😳 I think it’s more enjoyable than boys BB at the HS level mostly due to stronger fundamentals and greater teamwork. I have attended the state tournament most of the last 10 years and have seen more than 60 varsity games in each of the last two seasons. Although participation numbers are low, we have more than our share of good players and teams both locally (NEO) and statewide.
I don’t know what you’re calling “fundamentals” but there is no way a girls game at the high school level has better fundamentals than a boys game. Not even close.
 

D4fan

Well-known member
I don’t know what you’re calling “fundamentals” but there is no way a girls game at the high school level has better fundamentals than a boys game. Not even close.
Have been hearing that claim on here since at least 2013. I think what they are referring to is the girls run more set offenses and less transition than the boys. Their game is slower, so you can see more of the screens. They are more successful at boxing out for re rebounds because they are not able to use speed and quickness like the guys. However, the defense in a boys game plays much tighter on the perimeter. I am with you, I dont think the girls game is more fundamental in skills, but is more traditional in approach.
 
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