an individual coaches proposal for 20/21

SCC

Member
They are way less than idea. 1 coach doesn't have the power or the voice for all HS wrestling. Doesn't matter who you are. I am only one voice of 1 parent so I have zero pull but what he is proposing is insane.
A happy medium is dual season with a mixture of 6-8 team invites or 6-8 team dual tournaments. 15% - 20% fan capacity and only tickets will go to family members. As 1 parent of a senior ill be damned if I miss his season. Due to the nature of his career choice he won't have time to wrestle in college. When making decisions you have got to think about everyone that it will affect and compromise.
I guess I thought his #2 option would allow for quads, and even hexes, for dual matches. A 9-week season even with just quads, still gets wrestlers 27 matches, and they can end with a league tournament, sectionals, districts, state. To me that's a "baseline", the minimum that is reasonable. I'll push forward with ideas that can get there. (Get some 5- or 6-team dual meets and you 40-45 matches. )

You and I are in a pretty similar situation, so I completely get your perspective. I'm hoping some of these vague concepts can be refined into hitting the baseline. We're running low on time, so anyone with any connections to organizations that can discuss this with OSHAA and DeWine needs solid material and a push to get moving.
 

SCC

Member
You have to think about the idea that the state may dictate no more than 4 teams at a single event or worse (in my opinion), duals only. One coach that I talked to already thinks that this will be the case.

I don't think anything discussed on this message board is actually going to matter at all. The state will make rules and then the teams will have to work within that framework. I just hope that the state makes those decisions soon so coaches can start getting schedules together.

I don't think you need to worry about no fans being allowed. Volleyball has been played and I imagine that attendance is not much different between the two. Our school has spectator limits for all fall sports (guessingall schools do), so I think we will get to see our wrestlers compete.
I can see why this would be the case, but I think it would be better for coaches to organize and push that the size of the gym/venue should limit number of teams.

Heck, I was thinking my son's school has a HS and a MS gym in the same place. It could host 8 teams in a duals tournament and still maintain high safety protocols.
 

WGTJ

Active member
I can see why this would be the case, but I think it would be better for coaches to organize and push that the size of the gym/venue should limit number of teams.

Heck, I was thinking my son's school has a HS and a MS gym in the same place. It could host 8 teams in a duals tournament and still maintain high safety protocols.
I agree with you that gym size makes sense to limit numbers. If that were to happen, my son's school could hold their 8 team, one day tournament. Just wouldn't have the JV competition.

Going to be even more difficult to get JV/freshman kids matches this year as they will be even less of a priority. Just really unfortunate.
 

CoachHoon

Active member
The state coaches association is currently finalizing a proposal for submission. This has been completed with input from your local reps, AD's and the OHSAA. Please reach out to your district rep for more details.
 
Now Mayfield city schools, they just sent home a couple of hundred kids because of one positive test, Bay Village similar situation. And no word yet if Willoughby South and Eastlake North are going to allow athletics in time for state football, soccer, cross country, golf ect. The kids should be allowed to participate if they are cleared even if learning remotely. Again, Saint Edward is good to go after Medina just started back to in class learning about 2 weeks ago.
 

LPW

Member
At least I hope their proposal includes things that might improve wrestling. As they say dont let a crisis go to waste.
Submit a ton of proposals and let it get whittled down until wrestling gets something out of it.
 

SCC

Member
I have my suggestions in a pdf briefing format, including citations from the scientific literature. If anyone wants a copy, LMK. I'm glad to share if it serves to push this season forward.
 

Crossface86

New member
Finally, someone who speaks in the real world! The State will tell us what we can and can't do, so it'll be up to us coaches and AD's to to figure it out. Our opinions do not and will not matter on the subject, so why not spend your time thinking about how to make the best season possible with the constraints we'll be handed.
 

iggycoach

Member
I have my suggestions in a pdf briefing format, including citations from the scientific literature. If anyone wants a copy, LMK. I'm glad to share if it serves to push this season forward.
Thank you for putting that together, according to Coach Hoon they have already put data together. As long as I've known Coach Hoon he has been volunteering his time to help our sport so I trust he has our best interests at heart. He and the other coaches can view our ideas on Yappi, if they chose to use any of them that's cool by me.
 
looks like West Virginia is going with something similar to this threads #2 suggestion, but allowing tris and quads up to 56 participants, another yappi post just listed this new West Virginia directive for wrestling, I would have added small tournaments if I was grading WV's season proposal, coach Hoon may post what they are proposing for Ohio High School Wrestling
WVSSAC Releases Wrestling Modifications for 2020
 
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LPW

Member
Making decisions based off what other states,sports, do is not a good concept to follow. If OHSAA institute restrictions we need our own counter offers to try to make things better.

If we go to duals only we could make decisions to help duals be more competitive like get rid of the current weight certification process. This would allow a kid to move around and cover more weight classes. It would eliminate some FF and get rid of ridiculous paperwork and system that is bogus CYA.
This process has definitely impacted programs and duals quite a bit. Every year it gets harder to fill a full lineup for a dual and many times you have guys but because of descent plan you cant wrestle them certain weights. Sometimes were talking ounces between a FF and a match in a dual.
 

VB3

Active member
Would people rather have more teams and no spectators, or less teams and 2-4 parents per kid? If gum size is the issue, spread teams apart in the stands and keep fans out. Live streaming is an option for parents and fans.
 

SCC

Member
Would people rather have more teams and no spectators, or less teams and 2-4 parents per kid? If gum size is the issue, spread teams apart in the stands and keep fans out. Live streaming is an option for parents and fans.
I think this is a decent effort by WV, but not very robust. No flexibility.

Many schools have 2 gyms, a separate wrestling room, or an activity room, where they could put out a mat and keep the social distancing while increasing the number of teams at an event.

In the end, WV wrestlers will have a decent season, probably 20+ matches. But it's not hard to do much better. I hope OH does better.
 

WGTJ

Active member
I do not like the 56 person cap limit. 14 per team is going to eliminate any matches for kids not on the varsity lineup
Well, you're likely looking at different events for JV kids. I understand that isn't ideal. I would imagine that this year, JV wrestling will have to be kind of fluid with coaches coming up with events after they know what kind of numbers they have.

My boy's school has a JV tournament right alongside of their Varsity tournament. That just isn't going to happen this year. Will they be able to schedule something JV only? I don't know. I hope so, but I'm not optimistic for JV/freshman wrestlers this year as far as a lot of outside competition.
 

SCC

Member
Well, you're likely looking at different events for JV kids. I understand that isn't ideal. I would imagine that this year, JV wrestling will have to be kind of fluid with coaches coming up with events after they know what kind of numbers they have.

My boy's school has a JV tournament right alongside of their Varsity tournament. That just isn't going to happen this year. Will they be able to schedule something JV only? I don't know. I hope so, but I'm not optimistic for JV/freshman wrestlers this year as far as a lot of outside competition.
I thought Takedown was talking about teams who bring more than 1 wrestler/weight class. Perhaps they are evaluating two evenly matched kids on how they perform outside of practice. Or maybe one team has a first year to go against your top guy. So you move your guy up a class for that dual, and fill in his spot with a younger guy. Gives both teams better competition.

Regardless, I agree w/ Takedown, it's better for the team to bring more wrestlers as they see fit. I understand WV's effort, but seriously, these kids are in the same hot, humid room every day anyway. Traveling with the team isn't high on the extra risk for anybody.
 

WGTJ

Active member
I thought Takedown was talking about teams who bring more than 1 wrestler/weight class. Perhaps they are evaluating two evenly matched kids on how they perform outside of practice. Or maybe one team has a first year to go against your top guy. So you move your guy up a class for that dual, and fill in his spot with a younger guy. Gives both teams better competition.

Regardless, I agree w/ Takedown, it's better for the team to bring more wrestlers as they see fit. I understand WV's effort, but seriously, these kids are in the same hot, humid room every day anyway. Traveling with the team isn't high on the extra risk for anybody.
I thought he was referring to "extra" matches. But I get what you are saying and yes, that would definitely take away that flexibility - make more sense to say like 64 or 2 extra per team are allowed in case a coach wants to flex the lineup.
 
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gCOACH

Member
I personally would like to see us be able to FINISH the season this year if possible. If that means making sacrifices to the schedule or even the start of the season, that is a compromise I would be willing to make. I think that the holidays have the potential to derail our season. People are going to travel, people are going to get together with family and come back to the wrestling room with COVID. I think it would be beneficial if we limit the spread by limiting the season early on, in the hopes that January-March can be as close to normal as possible. With that being said, I think it makes sense to start the practice season after Thanksgiving (this would allow for a dead period in between fall/winter sports) and the competition season after the first of the year, at which time the season would be more/less normal (aside from limiting the number of schools at each tournament based on seating). The thing that we have to consider is that our sport is indoors, it typically takes place in a population dense environment (individual/large tournaments) and it takes place during two important holidays in which people tend to congregate with people they might not see on a regular basis. All of these things are working against us and regardless of how you feel about COVID, it has been made clear that these are factors of consideration for those in decision making positions. Also, we have to consider the officials, table workers and others that are also impacted by our season.
 

Pinwho1

New member
Blah blah blah, im over it.you can only get it in Ohio, Michigan, Wv .You Can't get it in South Carolina, Tennessee, Pa, Indiana. How many outbreaks have you heard from these tournaments held there? And what is the death rate of the wrestlers, parents, refs?If your sick, elderly, stay home. Everyone else move on. The restrictions where so they could equip hospitals with proper ventilators etc and buy some time. Not keep everything restrictive forever!
 
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gCOACH

Member
The key is to not try to make sense of any of the restrictions. I coach football, we have to wear masks OUTSIDE even if we are socially distanced from our team and other coaches. The chance of you getting COVID from someone while outside at a football game is next to zero, but coaches and parents are still required to wear masks. Makes no sense, but the powers that be are saying it must be done. I just want to have some semblance of a season.
 

SCC

Member
The key is to not try to make sense of any of the restrictions. I coach football, we have to wear masks OUTSIDE even if we are socially distanced from our team and other coaches. The chance of you getting COVID from someone while outside at a football game is next to zero, but coaches and parents are still required to wear masks. Makes no sense, but the powers that be are saying it must be done. I just want to have some semblance of a season.
That's ridiculous. I'm not a sheep. I will most certainly fight such that any restrictions must make sense. It's the government's obligation to do such, and it's a government by the people. And you certainly are not helping young people if you teach them to shirk their responsibilities and be passive sheep just because it's easier (for now).

This doesn't need to turn into a civics class, but a comment like this is foul.
 
The state coaches association is currently finalizing a proposal for submission. This has been completed with input from your local reps, AD's and the OHSAA. Please reach out to your district rep for more details.
Saint Edward last year had quite a few jv tourneys they attended, there really is not much more for jvs so if it's only duals tris or quads this year coaches will have to schedule these for the younger guys/jvs. if you look at most teams schedules they rely on tourneys for jvs, COACH HOON please post some sort of update or the proposal you guys have drafted. We need something now to schedule, prepare and so forth. tourneys are already canceling on their own, thank you
 

CoachHoon

Active member
Again, I will implore you all to reach out to your local reps https://www.ohswca.org/contacts ...as Yappi is not the place to present any official documentation on anything related to this topic.

I will say at this point all we can do is show the state how practices and events can be held in a safe manner with the hopes that we can reach a post-season. Everything we have been discussing in our proposal is based off of the Ohio Health Department's & Governor's recommendations for fall sports. We are simply waiting, like the rest of you, to hear if it will be more or less restrictive so that each of us can move ahead with planning our seasons.

I personally feel that the goal should be to have some sort of a season with a modified post-season...Bedford is ready for some dual meets if anyone wants to schedule some now. :)
 

Cjlewis01

Active member
That's ridiculous. I'm not a sheep. I will most certainly fight such that any restrictions must make sense. It's the government's obligation to do such, and it's a government by the people. And you certainly are not helping young people if you teach them to shirk their responsibilities and be passive sheep just because it's easier (for now).

This doesn't need to turn into a civics class, but a comment like this is foul.
Teaching young men and women to abide by rules and policies that are set into place by people in charge is a real life lesson that they can use the rest of their life. There will be times they disagree with the policies set forth at their job... Teaching them the proper way to approach disagreements in policy and the appropriate way to counter that is also important.

I completely disagree with any mask mandate and have repeatedly reached out to my local representatives to discuss the logic of allowing students during the day to have a mask break if they are outside, but making it a requirement for all spectators to wear a mask while outside seems obtuse.

That being said I follow the guidelines to the best of my knowledge in order to not jeopardize my sons football season or my career. (I'm a public employee).
 
Again, I will implore you all to reach out to your local reps https://www.ohswca.org/contacts ...as Yappi is not the place to present any official documentation on anything related to this topic.

I will say at this point all we can do is show the state how practices and events can be held in a safe manner with the hopes that we can reach a post-season. Everything we have been discussing in our proposal is based off of the Ohio Health Department's & Governor's recommendations for fall sports. We are simply waiting, like the rest of you, to hear if it will be more or less restrictive so that each of us can move ahead with planning our seasons.

I personally feel that the goal should be to have some sort of a season with a modified post-season...Bedford is ready for some dual meets if anyone wants to schedule some now. :)

I wasn't able to see the recommendations for 20/21 on the Ohio coaches assoc. site, were are they posted? Just a suggestion, fall sport guidelines will be the starting point for us, DeWine stated yesterday to brace ourselves as we move indoors for the winter. So indoor sports will most likely have more scrutiny. I see no problem starting the season, but lookin now looking at whole football teams are being shut down by one positive covid 19 test. with this knee jerk reaction indoor sports are going to be much more scrutinized and without us making major recommendations we will seriously risk losing our season. thanks again for referencing the site
 

WGTJ

Active member
I wasn't able to see the recommendations for 20/21 on the Ohio coaches assoc. site, were are they posted? Just a suggestion, fall sport guidelines will be the starting point for us, DeWine stated yesterday to brace ourselves as we move indoors for the winter. So indoor sports will most likely have more scrutiny. I see no problem starting the season, but lookin now looking at whole football teams are being shut down by one positive covid 19 test. with this knee jerk reaction indoor sports are going to be much more scrutinized and without us making major recommendations we will seriously risk losing our season. thanks again for referencing the site
I don't believe that they are posted anywhere and likely will not be posted. He is advising that you find your local rep on the website and contact them if you want to discuss the proposal and what was put forward.

I wonder where DeWine thinks in-school classes are being held if not indoor. And I'm not really sure why indoor winter sports would have more scrutiny than indoor falls sports (volleyball). To me, they already have rules established for indoor sporting events. Obviously wrestling is different than volleyball or basketball in that you can have a much larger group of participants at an event, but sports are already being played indoors.
 

Cramer

Member
I don't believe that they are posted anywhere and likely will not be posted. He is advising that you find your local rep on the website and contact them if you want to discuss the proposal and what was put forward.

I wonder where DeWine thinks in-school classes are being held if not indoor. And I'm not really sure why indoor winter sports would have more scrutiny than indoor falls sports (volleyball). To me, they already have rules established for indoor sporting events. Obviously wrestling is different than volleyball or basketball in that you can have a much larger group of participants at an event, but sports are already being played indoors.
One of the things I pointed out in one of the other threads about this is that XC and golf were similar situations as us when it comes to tournaments and amount of participants, except for the obvious outdoor sports. Those 2 had competitor limitations of 150 (or something close to it) and about a week or 2 prior, tournament directors had to contact their local health department to see if it was ok to hold a large event. I could see both of these being similar to us in wrestling, being an indoor and contact sport you're looking at 100 or less competitors, and talking to health department about being able to run the event. Like right now, Madison County where we are went to the red last week for the first time. We were able to host our playoff game but I did have the County Sheriff say to me to remind spectators to keep masks on because being in the red the county health board is looking for any reason to shut the event down and forfeit the game. So, I have a feeling your county color may factor into being able to host tournaments as well.
 
Would this mean no tris or quads?, if the OHSAA stopped volleyball multiple team tourneys would they do the same for wrestling?


POSTED ON AUGUST 20, 2020 BY BRYANT BILLING
OHSAA will enforce Ohio Department of Health rules

No multiple-team events for volleyball allowed

Buried in Wednesday’s ODH order was a provision that prevents teams from playing multiple opponents in a 24-hour period. It was designed to prevent multiple-team events, which the order says carry higher risks of COVID-19 transmission.

There was initial confusion expressed by school administrators on social media about the provision, which would have wiped out many golf and tennis multiple-team events after such meets had previously taken place.

The ODH clarified in a document released later Wednesday that golf, tennis and cross country are not subject to the provision; however, all other fall sports are.

That will prevent volleyball squads from participating in multiple-team tournaments, which are normally popular Saturday events during the season.

The provision wipes out the Coldwater Spikeoff, which was set for Saturday. The Cavaliers normally hold the annual tournament every season on the first weekend after play is allowed to begin. Fort Loramie and Versailles were scheduled to participate in this year’s event.
 

Testerli

Active member
Would this mean no tris or quads?, if the OHSAA stopped volleyball multiple team tourneys would they do the same for wrestling?


POSTED ON AUGUST 20, 2020 BY BRYANT BILLING
OHSAA will enforce Ohio Department of Health rules

No multiple-team events for volleyball allowed

Buried in Wednesday’s ODH order was a provision that prevents teams from playing multiple opponents in a 24-hour period. It was designed to prevent multiple-team events, which the order says carry higher risks of COVID-19 transmission.

There was initial confusion expressed by school administrators on social media about the provision, which would have wiped out many golf and tennis multiple-team events after such meets had previously taken place.

The ODH clarified in a document released later Wednesday that golf, tennis and cross country are not subject to the provision; however, all other fall sports are.

That will prevent volleyball squads from participating in multiple-team tournaments, which are normally popular Saturday events during the season.

The provision wipes out the Coldwater Spikeoff, which was set for Saturday. The Cavaliers normally hold the annual tournament every season on the first weekend after play is allowed to begin. Fort Loramie and Versailles were scheduled to participate in this year’s event.
Man...ODH and our weak Governor loves the power don't they
 
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