All Things Star Wars
- Thread starter PantherProud
- Start date
PantherProud
Well-known member
Rewatching Rogue One.
Andor’s line “you’re not the only one who’s lost everything” hits so different now, and he doesn’t even know himself how much he’s lost (like we the audience know).
Andor’s line “you’re not the only one who’s lost everything” hits so different now, and he doesn’t even know himself how much he’s lost (like we the audience know).
As a Science Fiction junkie I saw the original Star Wars & Empire Strikes Back movies on opening night of their wide release. I loved both movies and would rank them in any list of top 10 science fiction movies of all time. IMO Lucas got lazy in ROTHJ and his prequel trilogy was less sophisticated and fun then your typical PIXAR animation.
The cartoon series weren't bad. But then disaster struck with Lucas selling Star Wars to the woke Disney corporation. That Disney managed to destroy BOTH the artistic & entertainment quality of the franchise so quickly took real effort. With the exception of the very good Rogue One the Disney movies have been awful.
Even worse were the Star Wars series that Disney produced and with the exception of The Mandolorian these things were hot garbage. This is when I became aware of the funny & insightful Youtube reviewer "The Critical Drinker" (CD) whose take downs of Disney's Star Wars efforts were spot on, vicious and funny as hell.
So imagine my surprise when the CD praised Andor! I had cancelled my Disney plus but CD's review made me want to see the series. So I activated my free Disney basic from Spectrum to check it out. And man I'm glad I did.
I am half way through season 1 and IMO Andor is already not only the best Star Wars series I've seen but one of the best science fiction series I have ever seen. This is right up there with Babylon 5, The Expanse, Foundation, Battlestar Galactica (new version), Arcane, Stranger Things, Westworld, Firefly, The 100 & the Man in the High Castle.
Andor takes it's time but the slow build is a masterclass in world building. The acting is very good and the plot tight and critically for science fiction believable. What's also impressive are the sets and visual effects. Andor has that lived in look that distinguished the original Star Wars from earlier science fiction classics like Forbidden Planet, Close Encounters of the 3rd kind & 2001 A Space Odyssey. The effects are also quite good and the CGI blends into the scenery in a realistic not overblown way.
Disney should put whoever directed, produced and wrote this series in charge of all future Star Wars projects.
The cartoon series weren't bad. But then disaster struck with Lucas selling Star Wars to the woke Disney corporation. That Disney managed to destroy BOTH the artistic & entertainment quality of the franchise so quickly took real effort. With the exception of the very good Rogue One the Disney movies have been awful.
Even worse were the Star Wars series that Disney produced and with the exception of The Mandolorian these things were hot garbage. This is when I became aware of the funny & insightful Youtube reviewer "The Critical Drinker" (CD) whose take downs of Disney's Star Wars efforts were spot on, vicious and funny as hell.
So imagine my surprise when the CD praised Andor! I had cancelled my Disney plus but CD's review made me want to see the series. So I activated my free Disney basic from Spectrum to check it out. And man I'm glad I did.
I am half way through season 1 and IMO Andor is already not only the best Star Wars series I've seen but one of the best science fiction series I have ever seen. This is right up there with Babylon 5, The Expanse, Foundation, Battlestar Galactica (new version), Arcane, Stranger Things, Westworld, Firefly, The 100 & the Man in the High Castle.
Andor takes it's time but the slow build is a masterclass in world building. The acting is very good and the plot tight and critically for science fiction believable. What's also impressive are the sets and visual effects. Andor has that lived in look that distinguished the original Star Wars from earlier science fiction classics like Forbidden Planet, Close Encounters of the 3rd kind & 2001 A Space Odyssey. The effects are also quite good and the CGI blends into the scenery in a realistic not overblown way.
Disney should put whoever directed, produced and wrote this series in charge of all future Star Wars projects.
eastisbest
Well-known member
No
That's the fan-boy talking wanting something that isn't really there.
If you're pod master hadn't recommended it, are you sure you would still have found it up there with those others?
Andor is hot garbage, particularly second season. Way too easy to pick apart each episode.Way to much deus ex machina. Every trope in the book to move along the plot. It fills the history gap already pretty much covered by books except the books actually made building the death star a believable accomplishment. At no point does Andor make building a rebel army believable. It has ONE job... Speaking of your concern about "woke," did you are do you now realize that ... oops, just reread your post. You're only have way through.
We can discuss later.
Last edited:
PantherProud
Well-known member
Somehow I disagree with both you, who don’t even agree with each other. 
As a history nerd, this was one of best shows I watched. I haven't seen too many shows try to create a series based on an alternate history. I do wish it would've ended with a little more clarity though. Rufus Sewell played his part extraordinarily. Loved him in A Knight's Tale.
eastisbest
Well-known member
Einstein's Big Idea. A Nova production. Essentially the story of those shoulders he stood on and a few that stood on his. Almost makes you think it's not all way over your head.
I suspect we'll end up agreeing to disagree but I won't know for sure until I finish the first two seasons. In movies & TV shows there are no right or wrong answers just personal preference.No
That's the fan-boy talking wanting something that isn't really there.
If you're pod master hadn't recommended it, are you sure you would still have found it up there with those others?
Andor is hot garbage, particularly second season. Way too easy to pick apart each episode.Way to much deus ex machina. Every trope in the book to move along the plot. It fills the history gap already pretty much covered by books except the books actually made building the death star a believable accomplishment. At no point does Andor make building a rebel army believable. It has ONE job... Speaking of your concern about "woke," did you are do you now realize that ... oops, just reread your post. You're only have way through.
We can discuss later.
Thanks for not dropping any spoilers for Season 2. I'll probably be done with the 2nd season in a couple of weeks. But I absolutely expect there to be woke content as this is Disney after all. But so far the PC stuff has been muted.
Cubsandtigers
Well-known member
No
That's the fan-boy talking wanting something that isn't really there.
If you're pod master hadn't recommended it, are you sure you would still have found it up there with those others?
Andor is hot garbage, particularly second season. Way too easy to pick apart each episode.Way to much deus ex machina. Every trope in the book to move along the plot. It fills the history gap already pretty much covered by books except the books actually made building the death star a believable accomplishment. At no point does Andor make building a rebel army believable. It has ONE job... Speaking of your concern about "woke," did you are do you now realize that ... oops, just reread your post. You're only have way through.
We can discuss later.
Season two is rocking a 97% approval rating on rotten tomatoes. Which makes it the highest rated Star Wars content basically ever. You seem to be the exception not the norm on this one.
It will be interesting to see how he likes the Vel storyline.
Cubsandtigers
Well-known member
Oh the “woke” is there but it’s in an adult series that’s marketed for adults. I think you can handle a little woke in that scenario.
eastisbest
Well-known member
That presumes the "norm" is rating.
I knew the ratings before I posted. IDGAF.
Do you run your opinions based on what others say? No? So why bring it up and your continued gas-lighting references this is for "adults" as if the only reason others could not possible like it is because they can't be adults. That's fuqed. Shove that up your pipe. respectfully.It's tropish. Poorly paced. Poorly voiced. Too many holes. It fills in the rebel side of the story for the fans but on it's own? It's early CW with better CGI. it fails, never sees the light.
I don't think you understand what we mean when we complain about "woke" or "PC" ruining TV series and movies. I'll give you a hint - it's NOT the presence of gay characters or black characters or even trans characters.
I've loved stuff that had a 10% Fresh rating on RT and hated things with a 95% Fresh rating. When it comes to whether or not I like or hate a movie or TV series Rotten Tomatoes is irrelevant to me. Again art & entertainment are personal preferences and there are no right or wrong answers. In fact I'm always curious to hear the reasons someone hates something I love.
The reason I gave Andor a chance was that the Critical Drinker who had brutally trashed almost everything related to Disney's Star Wars productions loved Andor. That sparked my curiosity and I'm glad it did.
I finished season 2 of Andor. IMO season 1 was better but season 2 was solid with excellent visual effects and sets. While I felt the story telling was nearly flawless in the 1st season the 2nd season had some of those plot holes Star Wars is famous for. Not least of which was the ease in which people landed spaceships on the Capital planet. What, no orbital defense grid to prevent unauthorized landing or departures?
I would say that this is the best of the Star Wars live action series and if you liked the best Star Wars movies - A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back & Rogue One, you will enjoy this series.
Now for the question most Star Wars fans have in the back of their head: how "woke" was Andor? Season One had almost no PC crap to distract and/or insult the viewer. Unfortunately Season 2 wasn't so clean. There was a clear uptick in ideological BS particularly in the 1st few episodes. The two most obvious ones were:
* Andor becomes involved with undocumented migrants doing agricultural work that citizens of the Empire just won't do. And there are ICE patrols, er Storm Troopers rounding people up and deporting those without proper documentation. It wasn't very subtle and all I kept thinking was if the grain harvest was so important why not use droids?
* At a Wannsse style meeting of Imperials discussing an upcoming genocide against the people & spiders of Ghorum, check out the excellent movie "Conspiracy" with Kenneth Branagh to see how Andor copied it scene for scene, you get jabs at Star Wars version of FRACKING with a Fox News crew on hand to push the MAGA ahh, Imperial propaganda. So yea the producers wanted folks to remember that fascism is the same whether it's Nazis, MAGA or Imperial.
But outside of this they kept the plot focused on the story and not scoring cheap political hits. The 2nd half of season 2 was pure Star Wars (for good or bad depending on your POV) and I enjoyed it.
I would say that this is the best of the Star Wars live action series and if you liked the best Star Wars movies - A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back & Rogue One, you will enjoy this series.
Now for the question most Star Wars fans have in the back of their head: how "woke" was Andor? Season One had almost no PC crap to distract and/or insult the viewer. Unfortunately Season 2 wasn't so clean. There was a clear uptick in ideological BS particularly in the 1st few episodes. The two most obvious ones were:
* Andor becomes involved with undocumented migrants doing agricultural work that citizens of the Empire just won't do. And there are ICE patrols, er Storm Troopers rounding people up and deporting those without proper documentation. It wasn't very subtle and all I kept thinking was if the grain harvest was so important why not use droids?
* At a Wannsse style meeting of Imperials discussing an upcoming genocide against the people & spiders of Ghorum, check out the excellent movie "Conspiracy" with Kenneth Branagh to see how Andor copied it scene for scene, you get jabs at Star Wars version of FRACKING with a Fox News crew on hand to push the MAGA ahh, Imperial propaganda. So yea the producers wanted folks to remember that fascism is the same whether it's Nazis, MAGA or Imperial.
But outside of this they kept the plot focused on the story and not scoring cheap political hits. The 2nd half of season 2 was pure Star Wars (for good or bad depending on your POV) and I enjoyed it.
It's not a question of "handling it" it's a question of whether gratuitously inserting "woke" crap distracts from the story and/or insults those of us watching that don't share the show makers politics. If the series was set in modern day America and was anti-MAGA or wanted to extoll the virtues of the progressive life style then fine. But when you're trying to entertain me in a Galaxy Far Far Away......
Now if you're talking about the lesbian relationship in Andor, it was a great big yawn. It didn't help or hurt the plot and by today's tandards was very tame. So I had no problem with it. But if you want to tak about distracting insertion of lesbians into a plotline check out "The Last of Us". Now that was distracting and damaging to the plot.
PantherProud
Well-known member
Andor Season 2 was filmed nearly 2 years ago. It has nothing to do with what’s going on now.
Other than the fact that what’s going on now is mirroring a story about fascist dictatorship.
Cubsandtigers
Well-known member
How about the attempted rape that Bix fought off in season two. Lots of Star Wars purists were outraged that sexual assault could exist under a fascist dictatorship.
I suspect this was a manufactured "controversy" courtesy of some clever Disney PR folks to generate controversy. There was nothing about that scene that bothered me. As for Star Wars "purists" which I am not, I know a couple and they did not object to that scene. What upset them and many SW purists was how Disney & Kathleen Kennedy rhetorically "raped" the Han Solo & Luke Skywalker characters.
They were targeting Trump's first term and two years ago Trump had emerged as the GOP front runner.
As for mirroring today's events, we'll have to agree to disagree that anything the Trump administration is doing is fascist in any way.
eastisbest
Well-known member
Re:woke
You wouldn't add that there wasn't a single male leader on the good guy side? Ok, other than Saw who I haven't cared for since he was introduced in Rebels and is hardly a good guy.
Andor is male isn't he and he definitely was a "good guy". And Senator Organa was a good guy. Ditto for Luthen. And General Draven was a good guy and a leader of the rebellion.
Actually for a Disney production they made a conscious effort to keep the girl boss, Mary Sue characters to a minimum and the story was much better for it.
Cubsandtigers
Well-known member
FWIW saw was introduced in the clone wars arc where he and his sister lead an uprising against seperatist forces with the help of Ahsoka.
eastisbest
Well-known member
Andor wasn't a leader. Luthen wasn't the leader of his cell. Neither of them were good guys by most standards of good. Luthen has a whole dialogue saying exactly that. But to each there own "good." Organa and Draven were barely there. The show was hardly about them but yes, I'm sure there were many, many, male leaders who happened to walk in front of the camera in the background.
If you're comfortable with it, I'm not trying to sell you on not liking it. It's your business. Just pointing something out, since you frequently bring up that topic as one that leads you to not like some shows. It doesn't usually distract me. I didn't particular care for this show because it was too tropish and deus ex machina. You get old, you've seen it. There were isolated dialogues I thought very good. But in general? Lots of magic and high coincidence needed to drive on the plot, I felt unnecessary. CGIs don't sway me.
Last edited:
eastisbest
Well-known member
I had the mostly right image in my head, wrong show. Yep, never liked the character of Saw. Should have let the sister live and Saw die, lol.
They never to me showed why he would be accepted as leader. The nutty makes it less so. He can be removed and the story barely changes. But Whitaker does a great job with the character. He really sells the nutty.
Last edited:
To be fair, no main Character in Andor was all that "good" by conventional standards. I suspect that this is what upset fans the most - the Star Wars universe represents the battle between good & evil. Han Solo was the most flawed of all the good guys and he was a saint compared to the "hero's" on Andor. Conversely those that like their entertainment "dark" loved Andor because it was more "adult" for them.
Frankly I prefer the simple good versus evil story line - it's what made Star Wars great.
I had no problem with the portrayal of the female characters in Andor as they left out the Disney Girl Boss Marry Sue women who have ruined a lot of the Star Wars & Marvel content.
BTW, what female character were the leaders and good guys? Mon Mothma? She was hardly a leader and sold her daughter off for marriage.
As for CGI when it comes to science fiction movies/series the special effects are the most important thing for me. After all great effects can hide bad acting and story lines but I don't care how good the acting and story are if the effects suck.
eastisbest
Well-known member
Did I write leader AND good guy? I mean one, the other or both. Mon Mothma we know BECAME a leader. In her case, a little marysue might have been a good idea as it seems hard as depicted for me to see how she got from needing a whole bunch of others to fix her money mistakes and make her decisions. She's basically AOC. She maybe mouths against the stream for the cast-outs and common person but with no real-life experience that would indicate credible leader. She's the type that maybe gets the votes because of brains and look and the real leaders have to roll with it and use her best they can. That doesn't strike me as the Mon Monthma in Return of the Jedi or the Jedi Outcast games. So that goes into my bad plot point reasons for not liking Andor.
Based on what has been depicted, I would grant both Bail Organas, lol, good and leader classifications.
I also like good vs. evil. I think they would have done right in depicting some grey. It helps the others stand out. Except none of the good and evil at the higher levels that mattered was really depicted so the grey for me was inuringly overused.
Andor maybe missed more than hit the mark that the cells as depicted in other media were gangs of sorts upset the Empire was cracking down. I don't recall at all them making a case that Andor's home was treated particularly badly by The Empire. Maava's whole speech never convinced me they went from problems with the Republic to hands-off under coorporate rule to issue with the Empire. The only issue with the Empire was that one of their population had killed two security. Empire had not been depicted as having any role on Ferrix until then and they were allowed by the coorporation to do their thing.
That whole Ferrix scene, top to bottom was to depict an anti-policing theme. Not a fascist or empire theme. Clem just happened to be black, lol.
Luthen was not cell leader. Kleya was. Show-runners even confirm and listening to the dialogue closely, particularly between Mon and Kleya confirms. Other than Saw (and briefly Organa and yes a brief appearance by Draven) all leaders were female. Hell, even Saw wasn't originally a leader and eh... they tried a couple times but not Clones, not Rouge One and not this really made credible why anyone would follow him.
Hondo IMO, would have been a much better choice as a morally compromised cell leader that would join up with the bigger cause. But it wold be more heart-breaking when they eventually have to kill him, lol
Example of deus ex machina being (for me) way too prime in moving along the plot would be Maarva magically showing up on Kenari, while a Republic cruiser was still smoking. So, either Maarva helped set it a smoking, in which we have a crucial element not depicted, 'or "the force..." and all life is determnistic in detail or bad plotting. I don't except the Force as an excuse for bad plotting.
Last edited:
PantherProud
Well-known member
275K views · 2.8K reactions | Gareth Edwards STOLE The Death Star Plans | Grace3
Gareth Edwards STOLE The Death Star Plans.
www.facebook.com
eastisbest
Well-known member
and Andor and some chick whose name noone remembers will get all the credit.
275K views · 2.8K reactions | Gareth Edwards STOLE The Death Star Plans | Grace3
Gareth Edwards STOLE The Death Star Plans.
reminds me of a real-life I read this last season. As Mike Woodson's term as Indiana bball coach was coming to an obvious end, they were asking him the usual. Highlights, lowlights. One of his highlights, he has the chair that Bobby Knight threw. He stole it and he ain't giving it up to make sure it get sinto the right hands eventually. My problem with this, the evil empire in HIS version of the story would be MY Alma Mater, Purdue. When we're really Leia. We got the buns.
PantherProud
Well-known member
Rewatched Rise of Skywalker tonight in the home theater.
While there are certainly a handful of things I would change, there’s still so much I love about the movie.
I’ll continue to say it’s closer to a great movie than a bad movie.
While there are certainly a handful of things I would change, there’s still so much I love about the movie.
I’ll continue to say it’s closer to a great movie than a bad movie.