eastisbest
Well-known member
Don't they have like 3 of the top 100 recruits? People complaining?
2022-2023 Ohio State Basketball
- Thread starter EagleGuy
- Start date
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Just the unrealistic "fans" are complaining about recruiting. Chatman, Middleton and Royal are top 50 by many ranking services. The big kid (Parks) is in the top 200, and seems like the type of kid who will work to make himself better. #6 ranked class nationally. After a great class this year with another 1-and-done.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
Four top-70 freshmen this year, with three top-50 coming next year.
Recruiting is not a problem. Winning in the league and in the tournament, whether it's bad coaching, bad luck, or any number of factors, is the problem. If something is actually being built...it's happening at a snail's pace.
Recruiting is not a problem. Winning in the league and in the tournament, whether it's bad coaching, bad luck, or any number of factors, is the problem. If something is actually being built...it's happening at a snail's pace.
Very true. But do "quick hitters" stay very long? If it takes awhile, maybe he'll be in for the long haul. Just sayin'. Now please don't think that I on one side or the other. I'm just a Buckeye fan that wants OSU to be in the Great Eight/Final Four. Preferably the Final Four.
nwwarrior09
Well-known member
If we're referring to Holtmann being a "quick hitter", I would say that the bigger his sample size is getting, the less likely it is that he's going to get an offer from a big brand "basketball school".Very true. But do "quick hitters" stay very long? If it takes awhile, maybe he'll be in for the long haul. Just sayin'. Now please don't think that I on one side or the other. I'm just a Buckeye fan that wants OSU to be in the Great Eight/Final Four. Preferably the Final Four.
This is by far the best job he's ever going to have barring starting to crank out some league titles and deep tournament runs.
I haven't given up on him just yet like everyone else has.
While this is fair, they always look at where the team was ranked when you played them. So they will likely get credit for beating a then #21 ranked Texas Tech
Spartacus1987
Well-known member
You need to reread what was actually said.
Dude, you totally called the backcourt "diminutive", of which Likekele is a part. Oh, and by the way, you also called Thornton "fat", so you have a history of talking s**t about player appearance already. Lol.
Spartacus1987
Well-known member
Yes the “back court” not Likekele. Likekele as a point guard has good size but paired collectively with Thornton and it’s a very undersized back court. Yes I did call Thornton fat because it’s true. LikeKele may be listed at 6’5 but he looks at best 6’3 on the court, a lot of players aren’t listed correctly with their heights. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
This is what is so frustrating about being a Buckeye fan. The BIG has not won a national championship since 2000. There're no Duke's, North Carolina's, Kentucky's, Kansas, so called blue bloods in the BIG. With OSU's resources no reason this program should not be in the top 4 every year in the conference and occasionally winning the BIG. Now let the Holtmann apologist the so called Yappi experts of college basketball chime in and tell me how unrealistic my expectations are.
Spartacus1987
Well-known member
BIG10 basketball just like football has been trash for a looong time. When was the last time a BIG10 team won a national championship? Who was the last BIG10 player considered a top 10 player in the NBA while they were playing? No reason OSU should be this bad in a conference full of also ran teams.
Mr. Slippery
Well-known member
Last time BIG team won national title was mentioned in quote you responded to. Last BIG players to make the All-NBA team were: Victor Oladipo (‘17-‘18 3rd team), Draymond Green (‘15-‘16 2nd team), Zach Randolph (‘10-‘11 3rd team), and Deron Williams (‘09-‘10 and ‘07-‘08 2nd team). Last BIG player to make 1st team All-NBA was Chris Webber in ‘00-‘01. Last OSU player to make an All-NBA team was Michael Redd as a 3rd teamer in ‘03-‘04.
Spartacus1987
Well-known member
That is just beyond pathetic
CasualFan24
Well-known member
There are still basketball first programs in the B1G...Indiana....Illinois...one could agrue Purdue, Maryland certainly....Rutgers?...Michigan State for sure....I don't know how many, if any, of those you'd call a basketball blue blood...but they're still more known for basketball than football.
I both agree and disagree with the OSU resources comments....yes, OSU has a lot of money, but in terms of viable resources in the college basketball landscape, maybe they don't have as many "resources" as you'd think! What are college basketball resources? In other words, what makes someone want to come to OSU?
Money within the school
History
Big Name NBA pipeline
NIL money
Historic/interesting arena
Big name coach
Facilities (locker rooms, weight rooms, gym space, training facilities etc)
Game-day atmosphere
Brand
Exposure
I say all this, and yet, we still end up with decent recruiting classes. I think a lot because of the Ohio State brand....It's a big name, nice sponsors, national television access....so kudos to Holtmann on getting the players, because that's not the issue. But the other half of the battle is what you do with those players, and that is what everyone is disappointed with.
CasualFan24
Well-known member
One more thing....maybe Holtmann's downfall is not being able to retain players. We've had several really solid players transfer out of the program during his tenure that went on to play really well for other schools. I'd also include in player retention, his ability to accurately forecast a players NBA potential and communicate that to the players. What would we all be talking about right now if Malaki Brahnam didn't go 1 and done....and what if Ej Liddell stayed for his senior year? (Brahnam is like the 9th or 10th man on a not great Spurs team, rarely sees the court) (Ej Liddell tore his ACL prior to the season - but IMO is a tweener in the NBA and doesn't have a good enough jump shot to produce)
We'd be talking about a top 10 team in the country probably.....
Oh and we might as well add Sensabaugh to this list now - he's very likely going to be 1 and done, and he's not going to translate to the NBA. He'll be a late 1st or 2nd round pick because of his size, and will never translate to a strong NBA player. Would have a better chance at sticking in the NBA if he sticks around in college for another year or 2.
We'd be talking about a top 10 team in the country probably.....
Oh and we might as well add Sensabaugh to this list now - he's very likely going to be 1 and done, and he's not going to translate to the NBA. He'll be a late 1st or 2nd round pick because of his size, and will never translate to a strong NBA player. Would have a better chance at sticking in the NBA if he sticks around in college for another year or 2.
Orin Swift
Well-known member
I don’t really understand the criticism here. Branham was solidly a 10-25 overall pick, you take the guaranteed money there especially as a freshman. EJ had nothing to gain outside team goals by coming back. He had the individual awards, his returning wouldn’t have improved his draft stock, returning only would have potentially hurt him. Strike while the irons hot because you never know when you’ll tear an ACL.
Spartacus1987
Well-known member
OSU basketball is a top 15 or so program of all time so I disagree on the history. I agree the venue we play in absolutely sucks from a loudness perspective but it’s still fairly new and a lot of recruits like the Schott. St John’s arena was much better and I still think they should play 1-2 home games there a year. From what I also understand NIL money is there for players once they get to campus but they aren’t spending it on kids in high school to get them to come to OSU.There are still basketball first programs in the B1G...Indiana....Illinois...one could agrue Purdue, Maryland certainly....Rutgers?...Michigan State for sure....I don't know how many, if any, of those you'd call a basketball blue blood...but they're still more known for basketball than football.
I both agree and disagree with the OSU resources comments....yes, OSU has a lot of money, but in terms of viable resources in the college basketball landscape, maybe they don't have as many "resources" as you'd think! What are college basketball resources? In other words, what makes someone want to come to OSU?
Money within the school
History
Big Name NBA pipeline
NIL money
Historic/interesting arena
Big name coach
Facilities (locker rooms, weight rooms, gym space, training facilities etc)
Game-day atmosphere
Brand
Exposure
I say all this, and yet, we still end up with decent recruiting classes. I think a lot because of the Ohio State brand....It's a big name, nice sponsors, national television access....so kudos to Holtmann on getting the players, because that's not the issue. But the other half of the battle is what you do with those players, and that is what everyone is disappointed with.
CasualFan24
Well-known member
This isn't the NFL where just because you're a first round pick you are guaranteed opportunities. For Branham, 1 more year, a year where he would have been dominant on the court, could have been the difference between going 20th overall to being in the top 10...or dare I say top 5? The difference is being a 1st round pick and being a lottery pick.
Ask him right now if he'd do it differently, he might just say yes. I'm sure a 20 year old kid really wants to be the 9-10th man on the bench and not get to play.
For EJ - I agree, he had nothing else to prove. But again, when you're in that range of projected players....your career, if you choose to make it one, is likely in Europe anyways.
If you know basketball, and know what the NBA is....and you can be honest with yourself - neither Branham or Liddell looked like players that would be solid contributors in the NBA this season. Branham has that potential, yes, but Liddell does not have the size, speed, or jump shot to make it in the NBA. He's too slow to be a guard, he's too small to play as a 4/5, and he doesn't shoot it well enough to be a wing.
CasualFan24
Well-known member
Then that's a problem, because the top recruits in the country are all getting 7 figures to go to those basketball schools...
CasualFan24
Well-known member
Overall history is good, not great. Recent history is just OK. OSU has 10 (11 but 1 was vacated) final four appearances all time which is good for 6th most in NCAA (tied with Michigan St).....that's great, the problem is 4 of those were 1939-1946. 4 more of them in the 60s. A vacated final four under Obrien in 1999. Then Matta in 2007 and 2012. So in the last 60 years we've been to the final four 3 times, and only 2 of them count. That's no bueno mi amigo....An 18 year old kid deciding on what college to play basketball at, doesn't care about what happened over 60 years ago.
Spartacus1987
Well-known member
Yes I agree, I've long said I would absolutely donate to an NIL collective if I knew they were aggressively using it and they aren't.
Spartacus1987
Well-known member
Both of those teams suck so bad, OSU just sucks that much worse. I wish Holtmann would just quit because he's unfortunately not getting fired.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
That was awful, maybe a new low. It's one thing to have a bad shooting night - that is going to happen. But to get killed on the boards (44-30), give up tons of easy baskets, and look totally disjointed on offense is another matter. The basketball IQ is pretty low too, we've seen that several times this year in end of game situations. Team does not look like a team right now. First time I've felt that way in the Holtmann era. Disappointing.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Sensabaugh is the only true scorer this team has and opposing teams will adjust to slow down the freshman sensation. Once again no size and the rest of the freshman class outside of Sensabaugh is not doing much.
Stirred not Shaken
Well-known member
Other than Sensabaugh this "great" recruiting class is not doing much, maybe because a lack of coaching?Just the unrealistic "fans" are complaining about recruiting. Chatman, Middleton and Royal are top 50 by many ranking services. The big kid (Parks) is in the top 200, and seems like the type of kid who will work to make himself better. #6 ranked class nationally. After a great class this year with another 1-and-done.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Fair question. I've been a Holtmann fan but starting to have doubts. Results are results. But complaining about recruiting is misplaced. Recruiting has been fine, except for getting a true big man.
The freshman are not the problem with this team. I personally think that Gayle and Okpara need more minutes. Gayle plays decent defense and has some skill on offense, but does not play hero ball on offense. He was really good versus Iowa and barely played in Illinois. Okpara looked good the last few games until last night; he looked lost against Illinois. As for Thornton, he had a few bad games but will be fine. The kid can play. And Sensabaugh is of course going pro.