2022-2023 Ohio State Basketball

wolves82

Well-known member
Other than Sensabaugh this "great" recruiting class is not doing much, maybe because a lack of coaching?
Fair question. I've been a Holtmann fan but starting to have doubts. Results are results. But complaining about recruiting is misplaced. Recruiting has been fine, except for getting a true big man.

The freshman are not the problem with this team. I personally think that Gayle and Okpara need more minutes. Gayle plays decent defense and has some skill on offense, but does not play hero ball on offense. He was really good versus Iowa and barely played in Illinois. Okpara looked good the last few games until last night; he looked lost against Illinois. As for Thornton, he had a few bad games but will be fine. The kid can play. And Sensabaugh is of course going pro.
 

Cedar_Point

Active member
One more thing....maybe Holtmann's downfall is not being able to retain players. We've had several really solid players transfer out of the program during his tenure that went on to play really well for other schools. I'd also include in player retention, his ability to accurately forecast a players NBA potential and communicate that to the players. What would we all be talking about right now if Malaki Brahnam didn't go 1 and done....and what if Ej Liddell stayed for his senior year? (Brahnam is like the 9th or 10th man on a not great Spurs team, rarely sees the court) (Ej Liddell tore his ACL prior to the season - but IMO is a tweener in the NBA and doesn't have a good enough jump shot to produce)

We'd be talking about a top 10 team in the country probably.....

Oh and we might as well add Sensabaugh to this list now - he's very likely going to be 1 and done, and he's not going to translate to the NBA. He'll be a late 1st or 2nd round pick because of his size, and will never translate to a strong NBA player. Would have a better chance at sticking in the NBA if he sticks around in college for another year or 2.
What does staying another year in college matter if you think he won’t translate to the nba because of his size? Do you think he is going to magically grow 4 inches over the summer?
 

CasualFan24

Well-known member
What does staying another year in college matter if you think he won’t translate to the nba because of his size? Do you think he is going to magically grow 4 inches over the summer?
I assumed it was a given that experience and playing time would translate into making him a better player and more prepared for the NBA.

Anyone think Jae'Sean Tate would have been an NBA player after his freshman year? Sophomore year? Junior year when he almost quit playing basketball to walk on to the football team? How about even after his Senior year? He grew up a ton at OSU....not saying I think everyone should stay for 4 years.....but there are a lot of players who opt for the draft that would have set themselves up way better if they stayed another year.

Off the top of my head....
Kosta Koufos Fr
Bj Mullens Fr
Deshaun Thomas Jr
EJ Liddell Jr
Malaki Branham Fr
Daequan Cook Fr

I could even argue that Sullinger and Bates-Diop could have used or benefited from one more year...

Think about it - every single one of those players could have been one of the most dominant players in the country if they stayed one more year. Being one of the most dominant players in the country usually translates into a higher draft position and a longer tenure in the NBA. Instead, most of them had a cup of coffee in the NBA and have been enjoying lengthy careers overseas....got news for them....the lengthy careers overseas can be had any time for these players.

Even look at Evan Turner - he came back his Junior year.....became player of the year, was drafted #2 overall. Anyone see him as a top 2 pick the year before that? Should he really have even been a top 2 pick?! Probably not.....but hard to argue with him going that high after being player of the year...
 

wolves82

Well-known member
I assumed it was a given that experience and playing time would translate into making him a better player and more prepared for the NBA.

Anyone think Jae'Sean Tate would have been an NBA player after his freshman year? Sophomore year? Junior year when he almost quit playing basketball to walk on to the football team? How about even after his Senior year? He grew up a ton at OSU....not saying I think everyone should stay for 4 years.....but there are a lot of players who opt for the draft that would have set themselves up way better if they stayed another year.

Off the top of my head....
Kosta Koufos Fr
Bj Mullens Fr
Deshaun Thomas Jr
EJ Liddell Jr
Malaki Branham Fr
Daequan Cook Fr

I could even argue that Sullinger and Bates-Diop could have used or benefited from one more year...

Think about it - every single one of those players could have been one of the most dominant players in the country if they stayed one more year. Being one of the most dominant players in the country usually translates into a higher draft position and a longer tenure in the NBA. Instead, most of them had a cup of coffee in the NBA and have been enjoying lengthy careers overseas....got news for them....the lengthy careers overseas can be had any time for these players.

Even look at Evan Turner - he came back his Junior year.....became player of the year, was drafted #2 overall. Anyone see him as a top 2 pick the year before that? Should he really have even been a top 2 pick?! Probably not.....but hard to argue with him going that high after being player of the year...
I agree with your point about additional college experience making players better and a better pro. Getting to the point where you are the leader that everyone looks to helps a person grow also.

Having said that, a lot of these kids grow up with nothing. Hard to criticize them for taking the money sooner rather than later.

As for Sensabaugh, he will score well in the NBA. At 6'5" or 6'6" and big/strong, he will be a monster at the 2 or 3 spot. He can hit the threes, get his own shot in the mid-range, and run the floor. Kid looks like a born scorer. Funny, he was rated behind Gayle and Thornton in the HS rankings. Oops.
 

CasualFan24

Well-known member
I agree with your point about additional college experience making players better and a better pro. Getting to the point where you are the leader that everyone looks to helps a person grow also.

Having said that, a lot of these kids grow up with nothing. Hard to criticize them for taking the money sooner rather than later.

As for Sensabaugh, he will score well in the NBA. At 6'5" or 6'6" and big/strong, he will be a monster at the 2 or 3 spot. He can hit the threes, get his own shot in the mid-range, and run the floor. Kid looks like a born scorer. Funny, he was rated behind Gayle and Thornton in the HS rankings. Oops.
You think he's quick enough to play guard in the NBA? I'm not so sure I see it - as it is now, I don't see many layups by Sensabaugh which tells me he's not quick enough to get by defenders...
 

nutsnbolts

Well-known member
Four top-70 freshmen this year, with three top-50 coming next year.

Recruiting is not a problem. Winning in the league and in the tournament, whether it's bad coaching, bad luck, or any number of factors, is the problem. If something is actually being built...it's happening at a snail's pace.
So? You can have the top 3 tires, but if you have no engine or transmission you’re not going far. That’s the problem with only looking at the recruiting rankings without looking at the team needs. Need the right five, plus some of the right subs for depth.
 

wolves82

Well-known member
So? You can have the top 3 tires, but if you have no engine or transmission you’re not going far. That’s the problem with only looking at the recruiting rankings without looking at the team needs. Need the right five, plus some of the right subs for depth.
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The Dock

Well-known member
BJ was correct to dive into the NBA as quick as possible. Remember that, if not for the then-recently implemented “one and done” he would’ve likely been a lottery pick straight out of high school.

I missed the Illinois game, but didn’t have high expectations watching them vs Sparty. Mayer and Dainja is an underrated front court punch; the former is a 3-and-key guy who is pretty comfortable with the floor, that was a steal in the transfer portal, while Dainja is a load. Bad matchup when Key has been circling the drain ever since the injury vs Purdue.

I don’t know if I entirely agree with the (lack of an) NBA pipeline being all that detrimental to the program. Outside of UK and Duke, are there any programs that have that distinction that have been at a clip of consistent competitiveness lately? MSU? Michigan? Eeeehhhhh. Today’s NBA is getting guys, and stars, from all over.
 

CasualFan24

Well-known member
BJ was correct to dive into the NBA as quick as possible. Remember that, if not for the then-recently implemented “one and done” he would’ve likely been a lottery pick straight out of high school.

I missed the Illinois game, but didn’t have high expectations watching them vs Sparty. Mayer and Dainja is an underrated front court punch; the former is a 3-and-key guy who is pretty comfortable with the floor, that was a steal in the transfer portal, while Dainja is a load. Bad matchup when Key has been circling the drain ever since the injury vs Purdue.

I don’t know if I entirely agree with the (lack of an) NBA pipeline being all that detrimental to the program. Outside of UK and Duke, are there any programs that have that distinction that have been at a clip of consistent competitiveness lately? MSU? Michigan? Eeeehhhhh. Today’s NBA is getting guys, and stars, from all over.
My point though....when you watched him play. Did he look like a dominant player? Someone who was going to make an impact for an NBA team? To me, I was shocked he declared after 1 year. His 1 year was pretty mediocre.....
 

The Dock

Well-known member
My point though....when you watched him play. Did he look like a dominant player? Someone who was going to make an impact for an NBA team? To me, I was shocked he declared after 1 year. His 1 year was pretty mediocre.....
To an extent we probably agree on the principle, just not the specific case: I still think he made the right call (for his interests) in going to the Association as soon as he did. He was an elite prospect in HS and had the leverage of being a top big prospect amid potential shallow draft classes.

Yes, his year at Ohio State was bad. I also don’t see what good staying would’ve done for him — he was the classically problematic combination of supreme talent (with plenty of potential) and a bowling ball for a brain. To be honest I don’t think he would’ve improved his stock or ability to play in the NBA had he stayed longer at tOSU. The classes behind him, nationally, had plenty of bigs and he had to take a stab at getting drafted as soon as possible. He fell into the annals of Forgettable NBA Guys, and didn’t meet any of the expectations everyone had for him at college/NBA, but the motivation to get the bag wasn’t one that he fell short of.
 

Stirred not Shaken

Well-known member
My point though....when you watched him play. Did he look like a dominant player? Someone who was going to make an impact for an NBA team? To me, I was shocked he declared after 1 year. His 1 year was pretty mediocre.....
So what he signed a 4 year 5.9-million-dollar deal coming out of college, if he blows his knee out playing college ball he might not make a penny, plus maybe he didn't like going to school, always can get a degree later.
 

CasualFan24

Well-known member
No women thread but osu wonen basketball most overated team ever.
Yes. They will not make it past the sweet 16. Their coach is as bad as Holtmann
Totally disagree. They've only played 5 games this season with their best player (Sheldon) and losing Greene to another knee injury was another big blow. At this point, the starters are getting leaned on too heavily because of the reduction of depth and it looks to me like they're running out of gas. This team is really really good when at full strength. Sheldon is due back literally any time now and you will see the spark and energy she provides. Not to mention the back half of the schedule that started with Iowa is absolutely brutal....nonetheless, they'll be fine. This is a final four team, book it.
 

utsherman

Well-known member
Totally disagree. They've only played 5 games this season with their best player (Sheldon) and losing Greene to another knee injury was another big blow. At this point, the starters are getting leaned on too heavily because of the reduction of depth. This team is really really good when at full strength. Sheldon is due back literally any time now and you will see the spark and energy she provides. This is a final four team, book it.
Turns out a lot of people just look at the box score. Lol.
 

CasualFan24

Well-known member
So what he signed a 4 year 5.9-million-dollar deal coming out of college, if he blows his knee out playing college ball he might not make a penny, plus maybe he didn't like going to school, always can get a degree later.
I'd ask this.....is 4 years and 6 million dollars not available in Europe/China for a 7 footer with his potential?

In my opinion, all these guys think they're better than they actually are - in part, because everyone around them tells them how good they are and how they're going to be an NBA lottery pick as soon as they turn 16 years old. In reality, these players are declaring and leaving early because people are telling them they think they could be a lottery pick.

If you're a good player in college with a chance to go pro....but you're looking at a late 1st round or 2nd round pick...where the contract is going to be short term (3-4 yrs) and minimum for a rookie....are you going? Or are you going back to school to see if you can raise your stock?

To me....I'm going back to school for another year a la Evan Turner, and seeing if I can take my game to the next level. People always want to throw the injury risk out there - I'm gonna tell you this, give me a team full of kids willing to bet on themselves over a team full of kids playing in fear of injury everyday, all day.

Remember, $6 million is a lot to you and me......it's probably not a lot in the eyes of a 19 year old kid who thinks he's going to be the next Kobe/Shaq/Lebron/Jordan/etc....That kid probably thinks he's going to sign a $25m contract out of college.
 

CasualFan24

Well-known member
I'd ask this.....is 4 years and 6 million dollars not available in Europe/China for a 7 footer with his potential?

In my opinion, all these guys think they're better than they actually are - in part, because everyone around them tells them how good they are and how they're going to be an NBA lottery pick as soon as they turn 16 years old. In reality, these players are declaring and leaving early because people are telling them they think they could be a lottery pick.

If you're a good player in college with a chance to go pro....but you're looking at a late 1st round or 2nd round pick...where the contract is going to be short term (3-4 yrs) and minimum for a rookie....are you going? Or are you going back to school to see if you can raise your stock?

To me....I'm going back to school for another year a la Evan Turner, and seeing if I can take my game to the next level. People always want to throw the injury risk out there - I'm gonna tell you this, give me a team full of kids willing to bet on themselves over a team full of kids playing in fear of injury everyday, all day.

Remember, $6 million is a lot to you and me......it's probably not a lot in the eyes of a 19 year old kid who thinks he's going to be the next Kobe/Shaq/Lebron/Jordan/etc....That kid probably thinks he's going to sign a $25m contract out of college.
One more thing.....in today's world of NIL - there is literally no reason to leave early unless you know for sure you're going to be a lottery pick. You can probably make more in endorsement money at tOSU than you could as a 2nd round pick on a 2 way contract.
 

CasualFan24

Well-known member
Turns out a lot of people just look at the box score. Lol.
No doubt. This team is totally different with Sheldon on the floor. Anyone doesn't believe that, go look at her stats during the first 4 games. Just look at the steals for that matter.....

She spreads the floor....plays PG....is a monster on defense....just does so much for the team. She'll be back soon, and I'd put my money on them to win the B1G tourney.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
I'd ask this.....is 4 years and 6 million dollars not available in Europe/China for a 7 footer with his potential?

In my opinion, all these guys think they're better than they actually are - in part, because everyone around them tells them how good they are and how they're going to be an NBA lottery pick as soon as they turn 16 years old. In reality, these players are declaring and leaving early because people are telling them they think they could be a lottery pick.

If you're a good player in college with a chance to go pro....but you're looking at a late 1st round or 2nd round pick...where the contract is going to be short term (3-4 yrs) and minimum for a rookie....are you going? Or are you going back to school to see if you can raise your stock?

To me....I'm going back to school for another year a la Evan Turner, and seeing if I can take my game to the next level. People always want to throw the injury risk out there - I'm gonna tell you this, give me a team full of kids willing to bet on themselves over a team full of kids playing in fear of injury everyday, all day.

Remember, $6 million is a lot to you and me......it's probably not a lot in the eyes of a 19 year old kid who thinks he's going to be the next Kobe/Shaq/Lebron/Jordan/etc....That kid probably thinks he's going to sign a $25m contract out of college.
Probably not. In 2011 only about 10 players made more than $1.5m/year. There was 1 American born player (Deron Williams). Plus EuroLeague isn’t really the place for development. That’s what their development clubs are for. China certainly wasn’t paying near that. Andray Blatche averaged 11.2 log and 5.3 rpg as a 27 year old vet in 2013-14 and got a, at the time, very high paying salary of $2.5m/year in 2014-15 from China.
 

The Dock

Well-known member
10th ranked program of all time and we have low expectations of a fan base and are ok with a clown coach like Holtmann. GTFO if you call yourself a fan and don’t hold the basketball program to a high standard.

literally who are you talking to?
 

cjb5656

Well-known member
Holtmann seriously needs to be fired at the end of the season. The program is not getting better. And situations where coaching actually matters…end of half, end of game, after a timeout…are typically abysmal. I’ve given Holtmann the benefit of doubt for a few years now, but he isn’t doing anything with this program. OSU can do better.
 
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