2020 MVL Football

bigdawg65

Member
14-16 over 3 years isn’t way down. Way down is going 10-30 over 4 seasons. You seem to forgot that from 2012 to 2015 Troy went 10-30. Then they got a coach who turned it around, guess what, now that coach is at Tipp
Yeah, are we going to ignore the talent disparities between the two schools? I mean, call a spade a spade. You guys are the same team that barely beat the foes of the CBC consistently. Heck, even Tecumseh for a few years. Shawnee obliterated you guys in the 2010s until Joel took over. Those same years, Butler wrecked Shawnee annually for at least 2 years. Tipp is a very solid football program in the MVL; low ceiling (7-3) and high floor (4-6). That is it. It is a very good school and sports program. Matt isn't taking Tipp to Troy's level. They don't have that same talent. Never have. Not a knock on him, that just isn't going to happen. You guys can be a top 3-6 annually. That is solid. Anything more than that is unrealistic and unfair on Matt who is a good coach in his own right. Accept who you are.

This was Troy's worst team in like 6 years and went 8-2. Great coaching kept Tipp relevant. It will get you 7-3. Scare away a good coach? your floor is much worse. Tipp fans are just unreal. Sure, I'm a bias Tecumseh grad, but I'm at least realistic.
 

TippIsGreat

Active member
Yeah, are we going to ignore the talent disparities between the two schools? I mean, call a spade a spade. You guys are the same team that barely beat the foes of the CBC consistently. Heck, even Tecumseh for a few years. Shawnee obliterated you guys in the 2010s until Joel took over. Those same years, Butler wrecked Shawnee annually for at least 2 years. Tipp is a very solid football program in the MVL; low ceiling (7-3) and high floor (4-6). That is it. It is a very good school and sports program. Matt isn't taking Tipp to Troy's level. They don't have that same talent. Never have. Not a knock on him, that just isn't going to happen. You guys can be a top 3-6 annually. That is solid. Anything more than that is unrealistic and unfair on Matt who is a good coach in his own right. Accept who you are.

This was Troy's worst team in like 6 years and went 8-2. Great coaching kept Tipp relevant. It will get you 7-3. Scare away a good coach? your floor is much worse. Tipp fans are just unreal. Sure, I'm a bias Tecumseh grad, but I'm at least realistic.
Tecumseh is the biggest school in the CBC and they just went 1-9 in football. They have had 1 winning season in the CBC in the last 7 years. Tipp had the balls to move to a tougher conference. When we left for GWOC Tecumseh had an enrollment of 399 boys, Tipp had 296. Did you really say we barely beat teams in the CBC consistently? Since Tipp joined the CBC in 2001 they are
11-8 vs Shawnee
11-4 vs Tecumseh
13-2 vs Bellefontaine
10-1 vs Kenton Ridge
From 2007-2015 Tipp lost 9 conference games in 9 years. Only Shawnee rivaled Tipp in the CBC, the reason they are still in the conference and Tipp has moved on is because within the last 20 years Shawnee’s enrollment has been dropping like a rock and Tipp’s has been going up.
Yes there is a large disparity in talent between Troy and Tipp (big fish in small pond). That’s partly because Troy had 524 boys compared to Tipp’s 343. I can go all day against any of you fools
 

bigdawg65

Member
Tecumseh is the biggest school in the CBC and they just went 1-9 in football. They have had 1 winning season in the CBC in the last 7 years. Tipp had the balls to move to a tougher conference. When we left for GWOC Tecumseh had an enrollment of 399 boys, Tipp had 296. Did you really say we barely beat teams in the CBC consistently? Since Tipp joined the CBC in 2001 they are
11-8 vs Shawnee
11-4 vs Tecumseh
13-2 vs Bellefontaine
10-1 vs Kenton Ridge
From 2007-2015 Tipp lost 9 conference games in 9 years. Only Shawnee rivaled Tipp in the CBC, the reason they are still in the conference and Tipp has moved on is because within the last 20 years Shawnee’s enrollment has been dropping like a rock and Tipp’s has been going up.
Yes there is a large disparity in talent between Troy and Tipp (big fish in small pond). That’s partly because Troy had 524 boys compared to Tipp’s 343. I can go all day against any of you fools
I respect the heck out of Tipp. They’re a tough as nails, gritty team. I respected the move. My point is you did not win a bunch of league titles. Well, you did, but was only about half. You guys were superb in the CBC, but never ran the league like Troy has.

My issue is you guys expected to DOMINATE the GWOC/MVL. Then reality hits that you’re at best a solid team and at worst average. Then you say Matt comes and we will dominate. My point wasn’t anything to do with Tecumseh or a knock at Tipp. But you act like what Matt did at Troy was because of him. They went 10-30 with poor coaching. Great coaching gets them where they’re at. He must have had a decent staff since they went 8-2 without him and about beat Xenia. Stop saying Matt is gonna carry them to dominance. Great coaching adds 2-3 at most victories to the talent. Tipp will never be a pushover, but will never be elite in football. Idc about any other sports. It’s a football forum.

Tipp is good culture team and solid. Like watching them play. Enjoyed playing them. Just stop giving them unrealistic expectations like eventual Troy. That’ll likely NEVER happen. Maybe once, but never consistently.
 

TippIsGreat

Active member
I agr
I respect the heck out of Tipp. They’re a tough as nails, gritty team. I respected the move. My point is you did not win a bunch of league titles. Well, you did, but was only about half. You guys were superb in the CBC, but never ran the league like Troy has.

My issue is you guys expected to DOMINATE the GWOC/MVL. Then reality hits that you’re at best a solid team and at worst average. Then you say Matt comes and we will dominate. My point wasn’t anything to do with Tecumseh or a knock at Tipp. But you act like what Matt did at Troy was because of him. They went 10-30 with poor coaching. Great coaching gets them where they’re at. He must have had a decent staff since they went 8-2 without him and about beat Xenia. Stop saying Matt is gonna carry them to dominance. Great coaching adds 2-3 at most victories to the talent. Tipp will never be a pushover, but will never be elite in football. Idc about any other sports. It’s a football forum.

Tipp is good culture team and solid. Like watching them play. Enjoyed playing them. Just stop giving them unrealistic expectations like eventual Troy. That’ll likely NEVER happen. Maybe once, but never consistently.
I agree with most of your post and respect your opinion and view. I think most of what you said is a fair assessment. The only thing I disagree with is that I have never said Matt will carry Tipp to dominance. I just believe he will help Tipp become a top 3 or 4 team in the league. I don’t expect or think we will be having 10-0 or 9-1 regular seasons like we did in the CBC unless we have an insane class come through like the class of 2014. The other thing i disagree with is that Troy didn’t turn it around and become good within the last 4 years because of Matt. Troy had division 1 talent when they were going 1-9 and 2-8. I believe Matt could coach at Tipp for the next 20 years and consistently turn out winning seasons. If that means only 3 or 4 conference championships I am ok with that considering we are the smallest school in the MVL. I also know that a 6-4 record can easily get us into the playoffs. I know I’m cocky and annoying to some but I just can’t fathom how people act like Tipp is a dormant terrible football program. In the last 20 years Tipp has gone 155-64 with 13 playoff appearances. They have had 2 losing seasons in the last 2 decades.
 
I respect the heck out of Tipp. They’re a tough as nails, gritty team. I respected the move. My point is you did not win a bunch of league titles. Well, you did, but was only about half. You guys were superb in the CBC, but never ran the league like Troy has.

My issue is you guys expected to DOMINATE the GWOC/MVL. Then reality hits that you’re at best a solid team and at worst average. Then you say Matt comes and we will dominate. My point wasn’t anything to do with Tecumseh or a knock at Tipp. But you act like what Matt did at Troy was because of him. They went 10-30 with poor coaching. Great coaching gets them where they’re at. He must have had a decent staff since they went 8-2 without him and about beat Xenia. Stop saying Matt is gonna carry them to dominance. Great coaching adds 2-3 at most victories to the talent. Tipp will never be a pushover, but will never be elite in football. Idc about any other sports. It’s a football forum.

Tipp is good culture team and solid. Like watching them play. Enjoyed playing them. Just stop giving them unrealistic expectations like eventual Troy. That’ll likely NEVER happen. Maybe once, but never consistently.
The only points I’d like to make are that TIG forgets that Matt’s first two years we saw an all time QB in Troy’s history and as a senior he was accompanied by a RB who literally single handedly won games.
It easy to be a good coach when you have that talent right? Across the board there were all state guys on those teams AND an eventual DPOY in DII. Good players trump coaching all the time.
those 10-30 years you talk about, Matt was a part of one of them. When the defense gave up something like 35+ pts per game his first year, even when offense averaged over 30. Worse than the year prior when Troy was 1-9, right? So let’s keep perspective when these points (which are the only ones TIG focuses on btw) are brought up.
Also the staff at the time of the Brewer years, currently makes up 50% of the Gress staff. All 4 carrying over from Burgbacher’s departure. Weird how they were bad coaches before, but now they are good?

TIG can talk about “big fish small pond” all he wants, but that’s literally the only success Tipp ever had as a program in football. Troy at least competed and hung in the highest ranks at times with DI teams before the growth of DI, the playoff system, and divisional realignments. We can all make exceptions and reasons our teams deserve slack...but it’s lazy to argue that Tipp’s time is coming because Burgbacher is back.
 

TippIsGreat

Active member
The only points I’d like to make are that TIG forgets that Matt’s first two years we saw an all time QB in Troy’s history and as a senior he was accompanied by a RB who literally single handedly won games.
It easy to be a good coach when you have that talent right? Across the board there were all state guys on those teams AND an eventual DPOY in DII. Good players trump coaching all the time.
those 10-30 years you talk about, Matt was a part of one of them. When the defense gave up something like 35+ pts per game his first year, even when offense averaged over 30. Worse than the year prior when Troy was 1-9, right? So let’s keep perspective when these points (which are the only ones TIG focuses on btw) are brought up.
Also the staff at the time of the Brewer years, currently makes up 50% of the Gress staff. All 4 carrying over from Burgbacher’s departure. Weird how they were bad coaches before, but now they are good?

TIG can talk about “big fish small pond” all he wants, but that’s literally the only success Tipp ever had as a program in football. Troy at least competed and hung in the highest ranks at times with DI teams before the growth of DI, the playoff system, and divisional realignments. We can all make exceptions and reasons our teams deserve slack...but it’s lazy to argue that Tipp’s time is coming because Burgbacher is back.
What’s really funny is that I have debunked the theory that Tipp was a big fish in a small pond in the CBC. Until the 2010’s Tipp was the 6th biggest school in the CBC and when they left they were the 4th biggest school enrollment wise. Troy has only truly had success when they were the biggest school in their division. There is a bigger gap in enrollment between Tipp and Troy than there was between Tipp and any team in the CBC.
 
6-4 will NOT get Tipp in playoffs unless MVL goes to a 7 game conference schedule OR the region has a really bad year overall. With a 9 game league schedule, there aren’t enough 2nd level points to get in at 6-4.
 

ghsknightsfan

Well-known member
the 9 game league schedule is awful for everyone in this league. i dislike the OHC having 8 as well. 7 is a good number to me.
 
What’s really funny is that I have debunked the theory that Tipp was a big fish in a small pond in the CBC. Until the 2010’s Tipp was the 6th biggest school in the CBC and when they left they were the 4th biggest school enrollment wise. Troy has only truly had success when they were the biggest school in their division. There is a bigger gap in enrollment between Tipp and Troy than there was between Tipp and any team in the CBC.
IMO “Big Fish” doesn’t mean what you see it as. It’s not strictly the numbers, there may be a lot of kids walking the Halls of Beavercreek but they don’t compete well against schools smaller than them, let alone schools their size. So what’s their excuse? Tipps demographic is much different than most of the schools they played in the CBC, easier for them to make runs when talent comes in. Miami East is one of the biggest districts in the state in relation to how much ground the school pulls from. But they aren’t all world or ever own their league. Tipp is a more centralized district with a favorable location compared to most teams they played in CBC. Their parents are different than parents in Ben Logan, Urbana, Graham, even Shawnee. And your last statement may have truth at times. 2000’s weren’t particularly nice to Troy. They also played schools like Centerville, Wayne, Upper Arlington, Anderson, Toledo schools, Coffman, etc...real schools. Troy didn’t particularly run from competitors.
 

TippIsGreat

Active member
IMO “Big Fish” doesn’t mean what you see it as. It’s not strictly the numbers, there may be a lot of kids walking the Halls of Beavercreek but they don’t compete well against schools smaller than them, let alone schools their size. So what’s their excuse? Tipps demographic is much different than most of the schools they played in the CBC, easier for them to make runs when talent comes in. Miami East is one of the biggest districts in the state in relation to how much ground the school pulls from. But they aren’t all world or ever own their league. Tipp is a more centralized district with a favorable location compared to most teams they played in CBC. Their parents are different than parents in Ben Logan, Urbana, Graham, even Shawnee. And your last statement may have truth at times. 2000’s weren’t particularly nice to Troy. They also played schools like Centerville, Wayne, Upper Arlington, Anderson, Toledo schools, Coffman, etc...real schools. Troy didn’t particularly run from competitors.
See now your moving the goalposts. The facts remain that Tipp was never the biggest school in the CBC, they were not even top 3. Troy hasn’t had consistent success until they became the biggest school in their division.
 

TippIsGreat

Active member
6-4 will NOT get Tipp in playoffs unless MVL goes to a 7 game conference schedule OR the region has a really bad year overall. With a 9 game league schedule, there aren’t enough 2nd level points to get in at 6-4.
Tipp would have been in at 6-4 this year according to Drew Pasteur
 
Tipp is a good school and doing well. should be proud of their athletic accomplishments. The criticism comes because TIG is a snot nosed brat that acts like he’s so much smarter then everyone else. TIG is very good at molding the narrative to favor himself or his beloved Devils. He makes the big fish/small pond about enrollment numbers (which are a part of it) but what people were saying in the CBC, there just wasn’t a lot of quality programs to compete with Tipp. Tipp had built up a good program. It’s not their fault, But other then Shawnee, and the occasional team that would have a good year or two (Bellefontaine, Kenton Ridge) there just wasn’t much to get excited about with Ben Logan, Stebbins and Greenon etc. and with the non conference schedule of Graham, Milton Union, and Greenville that hadn’t beat them in 20 years. Throw in that fact that didn’t beat a team with a winning record last year and only beat a couple teams with winning records in the last few years combined since leaving the CBC, it’s easy to see why people would jump on top of TIG like they do. You bring it on yourself. The new MVL is not very good either with only Xenia and Troy being any good. Tipp will be back to a winning record soon enough. But if you would shut your mouth, people would probably not hate on Tipp so much.
 
Tipp would have been in at 6-4 this year according to Drew Pasteur
Tipp didn’t play a 9 game league schedule this year, only 8. Region was down record wise. Two teams at 9-1, three at 8-2. That opens the door for 7-3 and 6-4 teams. That won’t happen every year.

6-4 playing a 7 game league schedule vs 6-4 playing a 9 game league schedule is a HUGE difference point fwise!

Playing 9 game league schedule next year will make a difference, especially if they lose week 1 again.
 
See now your moving the goalposts. The facts remain that Tipp was never the biggest school in the CBC, they were not even top 3. Troy hasn’t had consistent success until they became the biggest school in their division.
Your facts are facts, no doubt but nobody is moving goalposts. Look at Trotwood, a complete power house, what are the enrollment numbers there Mr. Census? You use criticisms on Troy because you think you’re worth their time...in reality you aren’t. Tipp should be proud like barbershop boy said, but you make it so easy to poke at you.
 

TippIsGreat

Active member
Your facts are facts, no doubt but nobody is moving goalposts. Look at Trotwood, a complete power house, what are the enrollment numbers there Mr. Census? You use criticisms on Troy because you think you’re worth their time...in reality you aren’t. Tipp should be proud like barbershop boy said, but you make it so easy to poke at you.
I don’t care if I’m poked at. Barbershop can talk all he wants, people hated on Tipp before I was even on Yappi. This website is literally for people to open their mouths. He says I bring it on myself by acting like I’m smarter than everyone else, bringing up facts like enrollment numbers and past results is not “acting like I’m smarter than everyone else” or “molding the narrative” It’s literally facts that anyone can take the time to look up and research. If he or anyone else is mad because I do that then I can’t help them. You and I both know Trotwood is an abnormality, not the norm
 

TippIsGreat

Active member
Tipp didn’t play a 9 game league schedule this year, only 8. Region was down record wise. Two teams at 9-1, three at 8-2. That opens the door for 7-3 and 6-4 teams. That won’t happen every year.

6-4 playing a 7 game league schedule vs 6-4 playing a 9 game league schedule is a HUGE difference point fwise!

Playing 9 game league schedule next year will make a difference, especially if they lose week 1 again.
You are right, I guess we will see
 
I don’t care if I’m poked at. Barbershop can talk all he wants, people hated on Tipp before I was even on Yappi. This website is literally for people to open their mouths. He says I bring it on myself by acting like I’m smarter than everyone else, bringing up facts like enrollment numbers and past results is not “acting like I’m smarter than everyone else” or “molding the narrative” It’s literally facts that anyone can take the time to look up and research. If he or anyone else is mad because I do that then I can’t help them. You and I both know Trotwood is an abnormality, not the norm
Well, at least you’re a good sport about getting poked at. So, I’ll try to put this one in your eyeballs. What I meant about you “changing the narrative” is that you conveniently mention enrollment size as an excuse for lack of success and then beat your chest about how well you do in victory despite your size. Obviously, enrollment size is important. Most people are comparing programs on success they have, strength of schedule, strength of conference, wins over quality opponents. You encouraged me to do some research. So, here it is TIG. Since leaving the CBC, Tipp’s conference record against GWOC and MVL opponents is 14-17. The only consistency is beating Stebbins, Fairborn, West Carrollton, Greenville until this season. But those schools have bigger enrollment numbers!!!! Some years they’ve beat Butler, Sidney, Piqua, then the next year they lose. But those schools have bigger enrollment numbers!!! One year they lose to Troy by 35, the next by 7. So what’s the reason for inconsistency. It must be Derge’s fault and his offense that had to go. Or was it because the kids didn’t respect him and he had no discipline. I can’t remember all the excuses you have. With the best coaching staff in SW Ohio (your words) they won 4 games against opponents with a combined 11-29 record. All other Tipp sports are doing really well despite enrollment numbers. Go ahead Mr. Know it all, let’s hear the excuses now.
 
I don’t care if I’m poked at. Barbershop can talk all he wants, people hated on Tipp before I was even on Yappi. This website is literally for people to open their mouths. He says I bring it on myself by acting like I’m smarter than everyone else, bringing up facts like enrollment numbers and past results is not “acting like I’m smarter than everyone else” or “molding the narrative” It’s literally facts that anyone can take the time to look up and research. If he or anyone else is mad because I do that then I can’t help them. You and I both know Trotwood is an abnormality, not the norm
Your facts are just convenient to your argument while you ignore others. Also, Trotwood is...but your facts make it seem like Tipp is also an abnormality. They aren’t.
 

TippIsGreat

Active member
Well, at least you’re a good sport about getting poked at. So, I’ll try to put this one in your eyeballs. What I meant about you “changing the narrative” is that you conveniently mention enrollment size as an excuse for lack of success and then beat your chest about how well you do in victory despite your size. Obviously, enrollment size is important. Most people are comparing programs on success they have, strength of schedule, strength of conference, wins over quality opponents. You encouraged me to do some research. So, here it is TIG. Since leaving the CBC, Tipp’s conference record against GWOC and MVL opponents is 14-17. The only consistency is beating Stebbins, Fairborn, West Carrollton, Greenville until this season. But those schools have bigger enrollment numbers!!!! Some years they’ve beat Butler, Sidney, Piqua, then the next year they lose. But those schools have bigger enrollment numbers!!! One year they lose to Troy by 35, the next by 7. So what’s the reason for inconsistency. It must be Derge’s fault and his offense that had to go. Or was it because the kids didn’t respect him and he had no discipline. I can’t remember all the excuses you have. With the best coaching staff in SW Ohio (your words) they won 4 games against opponents with a combined 11-29 record. All other Tipp sports are doing really well despite enrollment numbers. Go ahead Mr. Know it all, let’s hear the excuses now.
Tipp has beaten Butler 3 of the 4 times they have played since joining GWOC/MVL. The two teams Tipp haven’t beat are Xenia and Troy. The two biggest schools by a landslide. Yes Tipp was bad last year, it wasn’t a surprise. Matt also had a bad year in his first year at Troy. The culture is changing, especially in the weight room, and it will be evident in the next few years. The offense wasn’t the problem under Derge, I actually wish Matt hadn’t changed it.
 

yakyak

Well-known member
The problem TIG is, I have lived in the upper Miami Valley for 45 years. For someone unknown reason, Tipp City Athletic fans have always just been so out of touch with reality. This is from decades of talking to these folks, many of them who are my dear friends.

I could go nutso with my favorite school with VB and make all kinds of crazy arguments why there the greatest, but I am not that dumb. I just know there a Baseball dynasty that has average up and down years in the rest and will only see tournament success once a decade or more. I have never heard a Tipp City fan be reasonable about who they really are. Average Boys, Great girls and supplementary sports. This should not take away from the fun debates we have year in year out, we just do not need the Tipp folks thinking they are a Moeller type thing in the Miami valley.

TIG just gets all that hate back because he represents the Tipp Neapolitan complex type fans that hangout at their Menards, over crowd that dumb DQ, forget to pave their parking lots, and scream at umpires at Kyle park 5u baseball.
 
The problem TIG is, I have lived in the upper Miami Valley for 45 years. For someone unknown reason, Tipp City Athletic fans have always just been so out of touch with reality. This is from decades of talking to these folks, many of them who are my dear friends.

I could go nutso with my favorite school with VB and make all kinds of crazy arguments why there the greatest, but I am not that dumb. I just know there a Baseball dynasty that has average up and down years in the rest and will only see tournament success once a decade or more. I have never heard a Tipp City fan be reasonable about who they really are. Average Boys, Great girls and supplementary sports. This should not take away from the fun debates we have year in year out, we just do not need the Tipp folks thinking they are a Moeller type thing in the Miami valley.

TIG just gets all that hate back because he represents the Tipp Neapolitan complex type fans that hangout at their Menards, over crowd that dumb DQ, forget to pave their parking lots, and scream at umpires at Kyle park 5u baseball.
I wish our city was that passionate, supportive, and cared about High School programs. In a nutshell, that's what separates good programs. Community support.
 

TippIsGreat

Active member
The problem TIG is, I have lived in the upper Miami Valley for 45 years. For someone unknown reason, Tipp City Athletic fans have always just been so out of touch with reality. This is from decades of talking to these folks, many of them who are my dear friends.

I could go nutso with my favorite school with VB and make all kinds of crazy arguments why there the greatest, but I am not that dumb. I just know there a Baseball dynasty that has average up and down years in the rest and will only see tournament success once a decade or more. I have never heard a Tipp City fan be reasonable about who they really are. Average Boys, Great girls and supplementary sports. This should not take away from the fun debates we have year in year out, we just do not need the Tipp folks thinking they are a Moeller type thing in the Miami valley.

TIG just gets all that hate back because he represents the Tipp Neapolitan complex type fans that hangout at their Menards, over crowd that dumb DQ, forget to pave their parking lots, and scream at umpires at Kyle park 5u baseball.
I go to Lowe’s in Troy thank you very much. And Airline Dairy Creme wipes the floor with DQ
 

LostInTime

New member
The one point none of you are mentioning is that Tipp will struggle as long as Matt allows Rick Robertson to run the offense. Rick has been around forever, hasn't changed anything since the 80's and has failed to have success at his last few stops.
 
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